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Message Subject Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Poster Handle Chaol
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Our choices are limited by what we "believe" our choices are. I see where you're coming from, but "free will" (ability to make (any) choice based on the information we ARE aware of) is as I see it, fundamental to our "current" experience of "reality"(within the spectrum of nothing).
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

Nicely put.

Though this choice could be based on information we are not aware of and no information at all, not just that information that we are aware of.

If our choice was limited by what we believe our choices are then that would mean that we could not choose something outside of our choice. If you asked me if I wanted either a cheeseburger or a hamburger I could respond by going to France. Our choices would not be limited by what we don't believe our choices to be.

Since we can never be "TRULY" self aware (because even what we consider our "self" is outside of awareness) we seem to get information on the relationships this "self" represents, but it's all illusion. When all we experience is illusion, the illusion itself becomes irrelevant because EVERY experience is supported by the framework it provides. So we can tag any experience with "illusion" or "simulation" or "nothing" or "existence" but I just don't see it as useful. I do see tagging experience with "perspective" useful as it allows us to take into account the totality of the most relative relationships that define that perspective.
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

Yes, I think "nothing" can be quite a useless designation but only up to a point.

Perspective can be more useful. However, this may give us a false picture of reality because it paints a reality as being subject to observation.

This illusion 'creates' perspective.

"What is the price of coffee today?" can elicit a variety of responses considering perspective.

However, as Nothing is the parent of perspective it would probably answer (if it could) that the price of coffee is irrelevant. This may help in remembering and understanding that perspective is flexible because it never reaches its ultimate destination.

I understand what you mean by "free will" being an illusion, I just don't see "free will" and illusion as mutually exclusive systems. Popping from bottle to bottle is what we do automatically as the dominoes fall within the most logical pattern (requiring the least energy or number of interactions). But this automatic "process" by which perspectives cascade through their variants is an expression of the "free will" of the system that houses perspective. Free will (the opportunity to make choice within a limited decision set) is a tool we use to enhance and express our perspective in a way that leads to "deeper" and "richer" opportunities for illusory experience. The illusory concepts of "free will" and "fate" are one in the same because the decisions we "believe" we've made are the decisions we've "always" made and we made them based on what we perceived (albeit illusory) to be our past decisions and their perceived results.

The moment there is opportunity for choice, whether illusory or not, there is "free will" automatically generated (perceived) with in that space.

If what comes next (in our nothing kaleidoscope) is what takes the least energy to come next and we can define how that energy is distributed and the framework in which it flows, then that ability is our perceived "free will". It's a self correcting feedback loop and presupposes time and decision space. Perhaps I am limited by my "current" inability to see beyond my perceived "ability to choose".
 Quoting: Jesse Sovoda

I enjoyed reading your illustration of how there is free will in this illusion.

It would probably be my explanation of 'free will' were it not for the nature of perspective.

Because it is all an illusion, the illusion does not really matter (as you've explained). In this, there is no illusion.

However, if all choices are all ready made (e.g., everything exists right now) there is no free will because it is irrelevant.

Making a choice implies that the separation of events in time is valid and true. It also implies a separation of you from what you choose.

But you and what you choose is the same. And 'both' are of your perspective.

If time is more of a function of the way the brain interprets reality than an absolute truth in the universe then 'choice' is meaningless.

What happens when you press a key on your keyboard?

We could say that we choose to press a key and it is done.

We could also say that we are trying to perceive of nothing, an act which dictates that every possibility be simultaneously created and experienced infinitely.

Because of the nature of truth, each of the two answers is as valid as the other.

Both are useful. (But only the first one is apple pie.)

You've given me something to think about.
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