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Message Subject Notes from an "alternate universe". Introduction to a new way of thinking.
Poster Handle Chaol
Post Content
I suppose the ultimate question is really "How do I get from Point A to Point B?"
 Quoting: Chaol

Thank you Chaol for your clarifications.
Apologies for the long post, which is because I seemed as if I was trying to discredit you on something with my posts, whereas I was trying to elaborate on what you have said, through my own perspective and trying to make obvious, something that apparently isn't so.

It is expectable that somebody who lives in a world like yours, may have only to think of your question above. But in this world we have to deal with the primal question first and that is, "what is the point B?" (which is a question by the way, that wouldn't exist if none has ever told us that there are "points" out there)

Maybe you take it for granted that point B can always be available and handy to anyone of us.

I do understand that once you have articulated (or defined, or even better represented) what point B is, then the subconscious takes over and guide you through to it, making it relative to your experience. You show it the dot to connect it for you. You do that by representing it with a "crazy" symbol and by following some "crazy" rules (the craziest the better) you will eventually see/experience the dot you asked your Genius to show you.
That is understandable (simple) and makes sense to me.

I also understand that I dont have to enter into any game of Q&As afterwards, as to how am i going to experience it, what else i have to do to "help" it etc, etc. No, none of this.

Nevertheless, all my posts about the Q&As refer to the very very basics and even before you appear with the Ec and the Genius.
In this world we are used in questions "what do you desire", "what do you want", "make a wish" and follow "rational", "spiritual", "illegal", or all sorts of methods and ways to achieve it, with hit and miss results.

When you come and say "I will show you a way to experience what you want" with a solid rationale behind it, which comes down to "what you ask is what you (can) get, precisely", you create "confusion" to us, maybe because we are not used in asking precisely ourselves what we want to experience, or because we never thought we had to (like none of us has 3 questions handy to ask the alien tourist who will meet in a bar).

So, your method has revealed to us (or at least to me) that the most important bit each of us has to solve for himself before seeing any value or benefit from what you are saying, is to know "what is it that I ask".

It also seems to be easy for at least 20 recorded successes with the Genius, that is they knew what they asked for. But I risk to say that this is not the rule.

So I do understand you clearly, when you say
"When we "externalize the desire or want" we are communicating with our subconscious."
Meaning that when we have a "point B" ready, we pass it to the subconscious to do its job.

"We can ask questions about Point B but it is not the questions nor the answers that get us there."
Sure! all we need is just to name it: "this is the point B, take me there"

"The answer is that our waking mind represents what Point B is and our Genius (subconscious) makes it more relative to our current perspective."
Again to the point! Before you represent it, you must know what exactly you are representing.

Therefore, where i see you are helping me (and others) more, is to articulate the point B, which is a waking mind exercise, that is language, that is Q&A, that is words.

And if it is the point B, that will necessarily determine the perspective that we will experience, then the perspective will be subject to the Q&As we chose to ask ourselves before, in order to find it.

If not mistaken, I see you confirming it when you say:
"The way we define things surely affects our experience and the way we see things (and react to them)."
How else do we try to define things if not by (specific to us) Q&As?

"...What if our perspective is shaped from the languages we use?"
if the language we use is made by concepts that we arrived at through Q&A about (our) life and death then how ...
..."we can consider that our current perspective is not based on the questions of our waking mind."?

or even better when you used an example:
"this is a symbol of my wealth" is less specific than, say, "this is the key that opens the door to my estate in Monaco". With the former, the map is confused because there is no specific perspective.(emphasis mine)

Once we're able to define what it means then we can begin to experience it. But without a picture of what it means it is fairly meaningless."

What you've stated there is exactly as you said to me here:
"...it is not meant to be a question for the subconscious (I never claimed it was, or that I ask questions my subconscious) but more of a practical question about how to go about making a more effective model."
For the model to be effective therefore, it requires a clear definition of "point B".

"Once we are able to define it..."
That is my bottom line with my "Q&As posts" and the work needed to reach that stage first. If one can do it without Q&As to himself, then disregard everything I wrote about it.
 Quoting: panoukos

I understand the entirety of your post and appreciate the work that has gone into it. I think that my response can be summed up as, "point B is never clearly defined".

As we cannot perceive of something directly, so too would point B not be perceived directly. Thus, we cannot clearly define it.

I agree with your statements that we need to define what point B is. But this is more of a 'general idea' or what would be called a reference because we are trying to perceive of a "future" perspective from the "present".

To put it an other way, if you want to drive to Arlington you could:

1) Ask questions and provide answers consciously, perhaps by looking at a map

2) Get in the car and go somewhere specific. It doesn't matter where.

I am suggesting #2, with the important point to have a clear idea in mind about any destination. It need not be Arlington in order to get to Arlington.

We are learning how to perceive "Arlington" wherever we may be. If you want to define Arlington that's fine. But the definition is what you make it. It only matters that something is defined now. (It can all ways be changed later, and most often is as we seem to change perspectives.)

But I think most often we get stuck on the destination and thinking too much about it. As if we can perceive it clearly from where we stand. So we squint and try to take a gander and make out what is in the distance.. all the while forgetting that it is here now.

#2 is about seeing point B in the here and now. When you get in the car and drive the road will automatically shift to your destination, even if you think you're not going in the right direction.

#1 is the natural way and it's what we're used to. But the wisdom of the Genius is far more clever.
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