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Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program

 
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Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
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[link to www.fileden.com]


Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving

THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
[link to www.northjersey.com]
BOISE, Idaho — When police officer Darryll Dowell is on patrol in the southwestern Idaho city of Nampa, he'll pull up at a stoplight and usually start casing the vehicle. Nowadays, his eyes will also focus on the driver's arms, as he tries to search for a plump, bouncy vein.

"I was looking at people's arms and hands, thinking, 'I could draw from that,'" Dowell said.

It's all part of training he and a select cadre of officers in Idaho and Texas have received in recent months to draw blood from those suspected of drunken or drugged driving. The federal program's aim is to determine if blood draws by cops can be an effective tool against drunk drivers and aid in their prosecution.

If the results seem promising after a year or two, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will encourage police nationwide to undergo similar training.

For years, defense attorneys in Idaho advised clients to always refuse breath tests, Ada County Deputy Prosecutor Christine Starr said. When the state toughened the penalties for refusing the tests a few years ago, the problem lessened, but it's still the main reason that drunk driving cases go to trial in the Boise region, Starr said.

Idaho had a 20 percent breath test refusal rate in 2005, compared with 22 percent nationally, according to an NHTSA study.

Starr hopes the new system will cut down on the number of drunken driving trials. Officers can't hold down a suspect and force them to breath into a tube, she noted, but they can forcefully take blood — a practice that's been upheld by Idaho's Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court.

The nation's highest court ruled in 1966 that police could have blood tests forcibly done on a drunk driving suspect without a warrant, as long as the draw was based on a reasonable suspicion that a suspect was intoxicated, that it was done after an arrest and carried out in a medically approved manner.

The practice of cops drawing blood, implemented first in 1995 in Arizona, has also raised concerns about safety and the credibility of the evidence.

"I would imagine that a lot of people would be wary of having their blood drawn by an officer on the hood of their police vehicle," said Steve Oberman, chair of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers' DUI Committee.

The officer phlebotomists are generally trained under the same program as their state's hospital or clinical phlebotomists, but they do it under a highly compressed schedule, and some of the curriculum is cut.

That's because officers don't need to know how to draw blood from a foot or other difficult sites, or from an infant or medically fragile patient, said Nicole Watson, the College of Western Idaho phlebotomy instructor teaching the Idaho officers.

Instead, they are trained on the elbow crease, the forearm and the back of the hand. If none are accessible, they'll take the suspect to the hospital for testing.

In a nondescript Boise office building where the Nampa officers were trained, Dowell scanned his subject and prepared to draw blood. Chase Abston, an officer taking his turn playing a suspect, recoiled a bit, pressing his back deeper into the gray pleather chair.

Dowell slid a fine-gauge needle into the back of Abston's hand. Abston, who had been holding his breath, slowly exhaled as his blood began to flow.

All the officers seemed like they'd be more comfortable if their colleagues were wielding sidearms instead of syringes. But halfway through the second day of training, with about 10 venipunctures each under their belts, they relaxed enough to trade barbs alongside needle jabs.

They're making quick progress, Watson said. Their training will be complete after they have logged 75 successful blood draws.

Once they're back on patrol, they will draw blood of any suspected drunk driver who refuses a breath test. They'll use force if they need to, such as getting help from another officer to pin down a suspect and potentially strap them down, Watson said.

Though most legal experts agree blood tests measure blood alcohol more accurately than breath tests, Oberman said the tests can be fraught with problems, too.

Vials can be mixed up, preservative levels in the tubes used to collect the blood can be off, or the blood can be stored improperly, causing it to ferment and boosting the alcohol content.

Oberman said law enforcement agencies should also be concerned "about possible malpractice cases over somebody who was not properly trained."

Alan Haywood, Arizona's law enforcement phlebotomy coordinator who is directing the training programs in Idaho and Texas, said officers are exposed to some extra on-the-job risk if they draw blood, but that any concern is mitigated by good training and safe practices.

"If we can't get the evidence safely, we're not going to endanger the officers or the public to collect that evidence," he said.

The Phoenix Police Department only uses blood tests for impaired driving cases. Detective Kemp Layden, who oversees drug recognition, phlebotomy and field sobriety, said the city now has about 120 officers certified to draw blood. Typically, a suspect is brought to a precinct or mobile booking van for the blood draw.

Under the state's implied consent law, drivers who refuse to voluntarily submit to the test lose their license for a year, so most comply. For the approximately 5 percent who refuse, the officer obtains a search warrant from an on-call judge and the suspect can be restrained if needed to obtain a sample, Layden said.

Between 300 to 400 blood tests are done in an average month in the nation's fifth-largest city.

During holiday months that number can rise to 500, said Layden, who reviews each case to make sure legal procedures were followed.

Outside of Arizona, some law enforcement agencies in Utah have officer phlebotomists, and police in Dalworthington Gardens, Texas are cross-trained as paramedics and have been drawing blood for about three years. The NHTSA is in talks with Houston, Texas about doing the phlebotomy training there, he said.

They're all attracted by Arizona's anecdotal evidence.

"What we found was that the refusal rates of chemical testing lowered significantly since this program began," Haywood said. "Arizona we had about a 20 percent refusal rate in 1995, and today we see about an 8 to 9 percent refusal rate."

Page 1 2 >>
BOISE, Idaho — When police officer Darryll Dowell is on patrol in the southwestern Idaho city of Nampa, he'll pull up at a stoplight and usually start casing the vehicle. Nowadays, his eyes will also focus on the driver's arms, as he tries to search for a plump, bouncy vein.

"I was looking at people's arms and hands, thinking, 'I could draw from that,'" Dowell said.

It's all part of training he and a select cadre of officers in Idaho and Texas have received in recent months to draw blood from those suspected of drunken or drugged driving. The federal program's aim is to determine if blood draws by cops can be an effective tool against drunk drivers and aid in their prosecution.

If the results seem promising after a year or two, the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration will encourage police nationwide to undergo similar training.

For years, defense attorneys in Idaho advised clients to always refuse breath tests, Ada County Deputy Prosecutor Christine Starr said. When the state toughened the penalties for refusing the tests a few years ago, the problem lessened, but it's still the main reason that drunk driving cases go to trial in the Boise region, Starr said.

Idaho had a 20 percent breath test refusal rate in 2005, compared with 22 percent nationally, according to an NHTSA study.

Starr hopes the new system will cut down on the number of drunken driving trials. Officers can't hold down a suspect and force them to breath into a tube, she noted, but they can forcefully take blood — a practice that's been upheld by Idaho's Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court.

The nation's highest court ruled in 1966 that police could have blood tests forcibly done on a drunk driving suspect without a warrant, as long as the draw was based on a reasonable suspicion that a suspect was intoxicated, that it was done after an arrest and carried out in a medically approved manner.

The practice of cops drawing blood, implemented first in 1995 in Arizona, has also raised concerns about safety and the credibility of the evidence.

"I would imagine that a lot of people would be wary of having their blood drawn by an officer on the hood of their police vehicle," said Steve Oberman, chair of the National Association of Criminal Defense Lawyers' DUI Committee.

The officer phlebotomists are generally trained under the same program as their state's hospital or clinical phlebotomists, but they do it under a highly compressed schedule, and some of the curriculum is cut.

That's because officers don't need to know how to draw blood from a foot or other difficult sites, or from an infant or medically fragile patient, said Nicole Watson, the College of Western Idaho phlebotomy instructor teaching the Idaho officers.

Instead, they are trained on the elbow crease, the forearm and the back of the hand. If none are accessible, they'll take the suspect to the hospital for testing.

In a nondescript Boise office building where the Nampa officers were trained, Dowell scanned his subject and prepared to draw blood. Chase Abston, an officer taking his turn playing a suspect, recoiled a bit, pressing his back deeper into the gray pleather chair.

Dowell slid a fine-gauge needle into the back of Abston's hand. Abston, who had been holding his breath, slowly exhaled as his blood began to flow.

All the officers seemed like they'd be more comfortable if their colleagues were wielding sidearms instead of syringes. But halfway through the second day of training, with about 10 venipunctures each under their belts, they relaxed enough to trade barbs alongside needle jabs.

They're making quick progress, Watson said. Their training will be complete after they have logged 75 successful blood draws.

Once they're back on patrol, they will draw blood of any suspected drunk driver who refuses a breath test. They'll use force if they need to, such as getting help from another officer to pin down a suspect and potentially strap them down, Watson said.

Though most legal experts agree blood tests measure blood alcohol more accurately than breath tests, Oberman said the tests can be fraught with problems, too.

Vials can be mixed up, preservative levels in the tubes used to collect the blood can be off, or the blood can be stored improperly, causing it to ferment and boosting the alcohol content

Oberman said law enforcement agencies should also be concerned "about possible malpractice cases over somebody who was not properly trained."

Alan Haywood, Arizona's law enforcement phlebotomy coordinator who is directing the training programs in Idaho and Texas, said officers are exposed to some extra on-the-job risk if they draw blood, but that any concern is mitigated by good training and safe practices.

"If we can't get the evidence safely, we're not going to endanger the officers or the public to collect that evidence," he said.

The Phoenix Police Department only uses blood tests for impaired driving cases. Detective Kemp Layden, who oversees drug recognition, phlebotomy and field sobriety, said the city now has about 120 officers certified to draw blood. Typically, a suspect is brought to a precinct or mobile booking van for the blood draw.

Under the state's implied consent law, drivers who refuse to voluntarily submit to the test lose their license for a year, so most comply. For the approximately 5 percent who refuse, the officer obtains a search warrant from an on-call judge and the suspect can be restrained if needed to obtain a sample, Layden said.

Between 300 to 400 blood tests are done in an average month in the nation's fifth-largest city.

During holiday months that number can rise to 500, said Layden, who reviews each case to make sure legal procedures were followed.

Outside of Arizona, some law enforcement agencies in Utah have officer phlebotomists, and police in Dalworthington Gardens, Texas are cross-trained as paramedics and have been drawing blood for about three years. The NHTSA is in talks with Houston, Texas about doing the phlebotomy training there, he said.

They're all attracted by Arizona's anecdotal evidence.

"What we found was that the refusal rates of chemical testing lowered significantly since this program began," Haywood said. "Arizona we had about a 20 percent refusal rate in 1995, and today we see about an 8 to 9 percent refusal rate."

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 09/14/2009 07:34 AM
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
Avian

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
what are people thinking nowadays..geesh...
"When plunder becomes a way of life for a group of men living together in society, they create for themselves, in the course of time, a legal system that authorizes it and a moral code that glorifies it."
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food, water, ammo, weapons, battery back up solar, hand well pump, wood stove and 1 year of food...oh yeah PM's too...good luck
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
what are people thinking nowadays..geesh...
 Quoting: Avian

avian this isnt going to work nonetheless end well. can you imagine the unthinkable potential here?

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 09/14/2009 07:26 AM
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
theres also medical hazards such as diabetes, hemophiliacs, those who have thick blood or weak/small veins; drive thru blood drawing isnt sanitary anyway. wtf here?!

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 09/14/2009 08:00 AM
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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09/14/2009 07:55 AM
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
WTF??? They don't have a right to make you blow into a tube but they can take your blood??? I see a huge horrible outcome for all of this shit. When people's rights were being violated at the beginning of all this drug testing through urinalysis then hair samples it should've been fought! You are being used as a witness against yourself through these. Wtf's next?
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
the cataloging has begun.... barcoded tattoos sold separately.
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
WTF??? They don't have a right to make you blow into a tube but they can take your blood??? I see a huge horrible outcome for all of this shit. When people's rights were being violated at the beginning of all this drug testing through urinalysis then hair samples it should've been fought! You are being used as a witness against yourself through these. Wtf's next?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 770724

tho inappropriate under the circumstances.....im gonna anyway DONT POKE ME, BRO!
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
What an incredibly bad idea! Well trained phlebotomists (not cops), are proficient at drawing blood. Not everyone has "good" easy veins to find and the potential for injury and fraud is enormous. Idiots are running that state (like many others of course), and like lemmings, cops seem very eager to take away our rights.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
:bs33:
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
Also nice way for them to collect DNA profiles
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
more profiling and mining.
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
What an incredibly bad idea! Well trained phlebotomists (not cops), are proficient at drawing blood. Not everyone has "good" easy veins to find and the potential for injury and fraud is enormous. Idiots are running that state (like many others of course), and like lemmings, cops seem very eager to take away our rights.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 768639

imagine an epileptic? jeeze the fkn cops would taze in a nanno second.
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
refugee13

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
I suspect this will become a problem after the first enraged drunk takes the needle away from the cop and jabs him in the head with it...
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
And of course Idafornia has to lead the way!
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
I suspect this will become a problem after the first enraged drunk takes the needle away from the cop and jabs him in the head with it...
 Quoting: refugee13

i wonder how much influence MADD has in this? just sayin
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
SnakeAirlines

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
No fucking way...
"Hold my cat while I bring in my tomato plant. That chemtrail looks like an earthquake chemtrail"

deanoZXT-07/20/2014 07:48 PM
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
Long ago I was a paramedic. If I treated a patient without their consent it was considered legally to be assault. I don't expect this idea to have much in the way of "legs" because it would open the door to too many winnable lawsuits against law enforcement agencies. Not only would suspects have their charges dropped, but they'd have proof, the blood test results, that they'd been assaulted.
I never, NEVER, drink and drive, but you can bet if I got busted for it that's how I'd play it; "No, Officer, I do not consent to you drawing my blood". Then call my lawyer.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
I teach Phlebotomy it is not a LICENSED position just hands on training.
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
it seems to me, that blood tests and such should fall under
the right to not incriminate yourself. offering bodily fluids to police against your will, is like offering incriminating evidence in the form of your words to them.

they should have to use external visible evidence ie open
alcoholic containers near driver, red eyes, the smell
of alcohol emanating from breath, slurred speech, erratic driving.

if arrested for suspicion of drinking or drug use
the person could then be offered the option of giving
blood or urine or taking a sobriety test to clear their own name. if they refused , whatever is written in the police report would stand unchallenged.
Chawlee

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
This has got to be the craziest shit I've ever seen!!

My last stay at the VA,it took 5 people to finally get a vein.So why the hell do they think I'm gonna let some
glorified metermaid try???????

Last Edited by Mr.Maggoo on 09/14/2009 09:20 AM
Dr. Benway
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
Get ready for the Pig Jab! (smacking a vein plump on arm)
refugee13

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
I suspect this will become a problem after the first enraged drunk takes the needle away from the cop and jabs him in the head with it...

i wonder how much influence MADD has in this? just sayin
 Quoting: Phennommennonn

looky what I am finding...

[link to www.theaccent.org]


Austin police out for blood
ACC phlebotomy certificates for cops a possibility
By Trevor Goodchild


Published: Friday, April 17, 2009

Updated: Sunday, June 21, 2009




Austin Police Chief Art Acevedo backs Senate Bill 261, sponsored by Senator Bob Deuell, which amends laws to allow drawing blood from DWI suspects who refuse a breath test.



As of March 31 the bill is in the senate Criminal Justice Subcommittee and has not yet reached the House.



If Acevedo's plan to increase blood draws succeeds, ACC might be used to train Austin police officers to be phlebotomists. The City Counsel and the Austin Police Department are debating the issue right now.



"The program would require us to go to Austin Community College; it is one of two phlebotomy training programs that are nationally accredited in the country," Acevedo said.



The phlebotomy program at ACC is a one-semester, stand-alone program. The program can be taken without having a higher degree plan.



Eileen Klein, Dean of the Medical Technology and Phlebotomy department and Department chair Terry Kotrla, are aware of the police chief's plan to train officers at ACC.



"We [department chair and Dean] have been in constant communication about this...this is not set in cement yet. Until they [APD and City Council] have their ducks in a row we're not going to go for it," Kotrla said.



There are many ducks that need to be in many rows, as Austin's City Council cannot rewrite Texas law.



According to Texas Transportation Code 724.013, taking blood samples from DWI suspects who refuse to have it taken is illegal unless the criteria of death or serious bodily injury have been met.



Some of these issues were discussed at a public forum hosted by Texans for Accountable Government (TAG).



On March 30 at City Hall a forum was held with a panel comprised of Acevedo, Council Member Mike Martinez, American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU), Mothers Against Drunk Driving (MADD) and the TAG Executive Director John Bush.



The moderator, David Kobierowski, presented the Supreme Court case Beeman v. Texas as a possible way around 724.103 to the panel and audience of Austinites. Knowel Beeman appealed the drawing of his blood because his arrest didn't meet the Texas transportation code's criteria, but lost.



In an aside, Francis Montenegro, a criminal defense lawyer who attended the event called this "judicial activism," and stated it does not rewrite the Texas Law that is already in place. Bush spoke in detail in the panel about the rights guaranteed by the Ninth Amendment and the right to privacy he felt would not be protected with blood draws.



"I know if we continue this practice of forcible blood withdrawals, the city of Austin residents are not going to lay down without putting up a fight," said Bush.



The chief of police had another viewpoint about the drawing of blood authorized under the implied consent laws.



"I don't know how to break it to people, but when you break the law you lose some rights," Acevedo said.



He also justified wanting to train police officers at ACC because hospitals were refusing blood draws from DWI suspects due to liability concerns. Even the jail nurse at the Austin Police Department will not draw blood for the APD to prove if someone is over the legal limit.




"When you look at the economic toll, the emotional toll and the toll on our communities...I think personally it's kind of irresponsible [for nurses to refuse]," Acevedo said.



Brackenridge, Seton, and St. David's hospital were all mentioned at the forum, and identified for refusing to do blood draws when DWI suspects were brought in by APD. Dr. Steven Berkowitz, the Chief Medical Officer of St. David's hospital's five locations in Austin shared his perspective on Acevedo's proposed policy.



"A forensic lab has certain policies and procedures...they do a chain of custody. Everyone signs off on legal documents. Let's say you were accused of a DWI. How do you know that blood was actually yours? Because we don't have forensic capabilities, we cannot say in a court of law that that was your blood," Berkowitz said.



The federal grant to train officers at ACC would come from National Highway and Traffic Safety Association (NHTSA). Despite this, hospitals aren't alone in their scrutiny of this policy. Some of the City Counsel members criticize its price tag.



"It is going to cost millions upon millions of dollars to collect and store the DNA and maintain it in a secure process. There are too many questions and until those questions get answered I don't think the city of Austin should be engaged in taking blood samples and storing them," Martinez said.



Acevedo cited that Arizona has been doing blood testing since the 1990s and claimed they've had great results with only one lawsuit, which the plaintiff lost. When asked what his recourse was if the blood draw policy didn't pass, he brought up another tactic to decrease DWIs in Austin.



"I think we have to continue to work on the education component of it. We have to keep trying to educate the public," Acevedo said.



Recent cases involving people such as Jesse Owens, Sophia King, and Daniel Rocha have brought APD's use of force policy to the forefront of the public's eye. ACLU Central Texas Chapter President Debbie Russell questioned what would happen if someone physically refused a blood draw.



"What hasn't been brought up yet is the use of force issue when getting that blood from a person who is unwilling to give up their most precious identifier," Russell said.



Acevedo addressed this after confronted by panel members and multiple Austinites that spoke at the podium and yelled out from the crowd regarding APD using physical restraints to obtain blood from a person who might be intoxicated.



"We're not going to beat on somebody to get a blood test out of them," said Acevedo.



APD does not call their policy forced blood draws, they call it "non-consensual testing." The chief has initiated no refusal weekends on holidays when APD estimates there will be a lot of drinking. Acevedo concluded that there was a way to avoid the entire situation, "Bottom line is if you take a taxi, walk home, have a designated driver, call dial-a-ride, or take the bus you'll never have to worry about us."
"Livin' The Dream..."

"Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more"

"So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..."

"Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..."

refugee13

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
This has got to be the craziest shit I've ever seen!!

My last stay at the VA,it took 5 people to finally get a vein.So why the hell do they think I'm gonna let some
glorified metermaid try???????
 Quoting: Chawlee

are you sure it wasnt the janitor trying to stick you???
"Livin' The Dream..."

"Don't believe in anyone, 'cos they'll feel you so much more"

"So break me down if it makes you feel right~and hate me now if it keeps you alright~you can't break me down if it takes all your might~cause I'm so much more than meets the eye..."

"Some people would bitch if their ice cream was cold..."

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 770409
United States
09/14/2009 09:57 AM
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
police are communist traitors.
Chawlee

User ID: 760407
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09/14/2009 10:01 AM
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
This has got to be the craziest shit I've ever seen!!

My last stay at the VA,it took 5 people to finally get a vein.So why the hell do they think I'm gonna let some
glorified metermaid try???????

are you sure it wasnt the janitor trying to stick you???
 Quoting: refugee13


He probably took a stab at it too.
Lens Flare

User ID: 763224
Netherlands
09/14/2009 10:06 AM
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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
Also nice way for them to collect DNA profiles
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 759674


My thoughts exactly.
The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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09/14/2009 11:21 AM

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
I teach Phlebotomy it is not a LICENSED position just hands on training.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 660194

regardless you wanna cop to draw your blood? talk about a conflict of interest in itself
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.
PhennommennonnModerator  (OP)
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09/14/2009 11:37 AM

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Re: Police say syringes will help stop drunk driving (Idaho/Texas) *Cops To Be Trained as Phlebotomists under federal program
PP picked up the story too

Police Train To Forcibly Draw Blood From Drunk Driving Suspects

Nightmarish and chilling program could be expanded nationwide

Paul Joseph Watson

Monday, September 14, 2009

The Associated Press reports today on a truly chilling and nightmarish police program that we have highlighted before – cops forcibly jabbing a syringe into your arm and extracting blood if you are “suspected” of drunk-driving.

The opening two paragraphs in the AP report alone sound like something straight out of a twilight zone episode where vampires have taken over America and turned it into a tyrannical police state in order to satisfy their blood lust. Sound overstated? Read it for yourself.

When police officer Darryll Dowell is on patrol in the southwestern Idaho city of Nampa, he’ll pull up at a stoplight and usually start casing the vehicle. Nowadays, his eyes will also focus on the driver’s arms, as he tries to search for a plump, bouncy vein.

“I was looking at people’s arms and hands, thinking, ‘I could draw from that,’” Dowell said.

The article then goes on to describe how officers in Texas and Idaho are training to withdraw blood from “suspects” as a replacement for the standard breathalyzer test, primarily because police can’t make anyone breathe into a tube but apparently, in the “land of the free,” they can forcibly hold someone down and jab a needle into their arm and take their blood, “a practice that’s been upheld by Idaho’s Supreme Court and the U.S. Supreme Court,” according to the report.

The U.S. Supreme Court also once ruled that black people were slaves, property of their slaveowners with no inherent rights whatsoever, and that those designated to be “feeble minded” by the government could be sterilized – in neither case was either of these rulings in accordance with natural God given rights bestowed upon mankind, as history has shown.

Likewise, cops forcibly jabbing needles in people who are merely “suspected” of being drunk drivers is a total abomination, a complete violation of basic human rights under the Nuremberg code, and one that will likely lead to many injuries and infections – not to mention a cascade of lawsuits.

Despite being littered with internal checkpoints that are now starting to pop up all over America, not even the Nazis or the Soviets sank to the depth of having their goons forcibly stick needles into people’s arms to take their blood.

The practice of cops drawing blood at the side of the road has been in place in some areas since 1995 but the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration has indicated that the program is ultimately intended to be introduced nationwide.

Nicole Watson, the College of Western Idaho phlebotomy instructor teaching the Idaho officers, described how the process would unfold.

Once they’re back on patrol, they will draw blood of any suspected drunk driver who refuses a breath test. They’ll use force if they need to, such as getting help from another officer to pin down a suspect and potentially strap them down, Watson said.

Of course, once Americans are trained to accept authority figures jabbing them with needles against their will on a whim, programs for mandatory mass vaccination will be all the more easier to implement.

Cops across America are already armed with Tasers for the purpose of inflicting “pain compliance,” otherwise known as torture, now they will also be wielding needles while eyeing up your “plump, bouncy vein”.

Welcome to Amerika 2009 – land of the vampires, home of the slave.

Last Edited by Phennommennonn on 09/14/2009 11:37 AM
political correctness is a doctrine.... fostered by a delusional, illogical minority...... and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media; which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a turd by the clean end.





GLP