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If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World

 
TurnOffYourTV

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09/17/2009 11:26 PM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Tell me, How do they tell how old fossils are?

By where they are in the various geological strata, which have been dated pretty well.

And then tell me, how they date the layers in the Geologic Column?

There are a lot of ways. We can date the duration of sedimentary rock by averaging measurable and measure's deposition rates; we can date igneous and metamorphic rocks by determining their relationship to the subduction zones of tectonic plates, which can be determined fairly accurately.

Have you ever taken a geology course at a JuCo? If you're really interested in such, just a basic GEO 101, Introduction to Physical Geology, would probably answer most of your questions.

 Quoting: Duncan Kunz


I have already been indoctrinated thanks. I have even studied evolution some on my own. I just don't agree with it. Dating the layers based on what order they are in is not accurate in my opinion. A really big flood could make many "layers" of sediment at once...with no problem.

Last Edited by TurnOffYourTV on 09/17/2009 11:28 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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09/17/2009 11:29 PM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
"We can date the duration of sedimentary rock by averaging measurable deposition rates;"



If there were vast spans of time there should be erosion between the strata layers. Instead what we find are smooth straight lines that are found with rapid flood sediment deposition and normal aggregate separation. Some of the layers show mixing as happens in wave motion.

"This general evenness and smoothness of sedimentary layers throughout the geologic column is rather odd especially considering the fact that the current weathering rate for the continents of today averages about 6cm/thousand years for the continental shelves. This means that in less than 10 million years, the entire continental shelves of today would be washed into the oceans to be replaced by new underlying materials."
American Journal of Science, Vol. 276: 1976.
Judson, S. and D. F. Ritter, "Rates of regional denudation on the United States", Journal of Geophysical Research 69:3395-3401, 1964.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]
Petrification: Days or Millions of Years?
[link to www.johnpratt.com]

Yet fossils are found showing there been no erosion for the claimed millions of years.
Anonymous Coward
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09/17/2009 11:38 PM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/17/2009 11:50 PM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 773549



why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 12:38 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
hmm i guess if you wanted to be scientific i guess you could say they all survived at 1st then the really just BIG stars starting blowing up 2,000 years in and then the past 5000 years we've had one every 25 years.

25 * 200 = 5000 + 2000 = 7000


"is the entire universe just 6,000 years old too or just the earth?"

Also, the science confirms what the Bible says, they were all created on the first day.

Genesis 1:1-5 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was on the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters. And God said, Let there be light: and there was light. And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness. And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 773549


Did God invent shadows? Or have shadows always existed since the first moment when light was blocked by an object?
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 12:43 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
evolution of body and mind are not the same as the evolution of society...

Huge buildings or mud huts do not signify the evolutionary differences of their inhabitants...
TurnOffYourTV

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09/18/2009 12:48 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]



why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 391254



You just assume he didn't...no? He doesn't name specific animals, he said bring of every fowl, every cattle, and everything that creep upon the Earth. I think there was probably Dinosaurs on the ark.

When was the word "Dinosaur" first used? The answer, 1841.

So even if they did name all the animals on the ark, Dinosaurs would not have been named by that name.

The Bible refers to Dragons...probably Dinosaurs.
KILL YOUR TV NOW! IT IS HYPNOTIZING AND BRAINWASHING YOU! TURN IT OFF FOR GOOD!
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 01:21 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]



why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?



You just assume he didn't...no? He doesn't name specific animals, he said bring of every fowl, every cattle, and everything that creep upon the Earth. I think there was probably Dinosaurs on the ark.

When was the word "Dinosaur" first used? The answer, 1841.

So even if they did name all the animals on the ark, Dinosaurs would not have been named by that name.

The Bible refers to Dragons...probably Dinosaurs.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


How did we forget the name of that species?
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 01:31 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Tell me, How do they tell how old fossils are?

By where they are in the various geological strata, which have been dated pretty well.

And then tell me, how they date the layers in the Geologic Column?

There are a lot of ways. We can date the duration of sedimentary rock by averaging measurable and measure's deposition rates; we can date igneous and metamorphic rocks by determining their relationship to the subduction zones of tectonic plates, which can be determined fairly accurately.

Have you ever taken a geology course at a JuCo? If you're really interested in such, just a basic GEO 101, Introduction to Physical Geology, would probably answer most of your questions.



I have already been indoctrinated thanks. I have even studied evolution some on my own. I just don't agree with it. Dating the layers based on what order they are in is not accurate in my opinion. A really big flood could make many "layers" of sediment at once...with no problem.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


You obviously haven't studied it enough then. If you only read one book arguing for evolution, pick up The Greatest Show on Earth: The Evidence for Evolution by Richard Dawkins.
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 01:35 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
In case you hadn't noticed, we do live in a dangerous world.

It is just that our numbers have put us at the top of the food chain. We have also separated outselves from the natural world.

And man is the biggest predator of all because far too many of us kill others just because they want to.

However, a hungry lion prowling around could certainly make a meal out of most of us. Many snakes and spiders and jellyfish can take us out as well. Don't forget all the cute little viruses and bacteria out there that can kill us.

Whether you are a creationist or an evolutionist, it all depends on your point of view. I see no conflict because the theory of evolution is a theory of intelligent design.

As for the species of man, which would you rather be: A Risen Ape or A Fallen Angel?
 Quoting: anonanon 772889

bump bump bump
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 01:39 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?



You just assume he didn't...no? He doesn't name specific animals, he said bring of every fowl, every cattle, and everything that creep upon the Earth. I think there was probably Dinosaurs on the ark.

When was the word "Dinosaur" first used? The answer, 1841.

So even if they did name all the animals on the ark, Dinosaurs would not have been named by that name.

The Bible refers to Dragons...probably Dinosaurs.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV



The Pharmacy called, your prescriptions are ready for pick up now. Sorry about the delay.
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2009 01:57 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]



why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?



You just assume he didn't...no? He doesn't name specific animals, he said bring of every fowl, every cattle, and everything that creep upon the Earth. I think there was probably Dinosaurs on the ark.

When was the word "Dinosaur" first used? The answer, 1841.

So even if they did name all the animals on the ark, Dinosaurs would not have been named by that name.

The Bible refers to Dragons...probably Dinosaurs.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV



hey a simple "i don't know" would suffice haha
that's the main reason i kept asking those questions was to get an "i don't know"
the universe is full of mystery. that's the beauty of it.

at point after the flood were Dragons mentioned?
i bet they were killed in the flood.
I know just before the flood the Bible talks about the "Sons of God" coming down and making it with the womenfolk. that is really quite freaky if you think about it....if they were real that would Have to be aliens in my opinion. the only other option would have to be angels and thatd just be even more messed up.
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09/18/2009 01:57 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
what*
TurnOffYourTV

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09/18/2009 02:12 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
There polystrate fossils blatantly show there was no long periods of sediment deposition but was rappid, as found at numerous flood sites.
[link to www.johnpratt.com]
They are found in coal layers, and strata of the geocolumn.

Strata is bent showing it was bent only while soft, consistant with a flood wash.
[link to www.detectingdesign.com]



why didn't God want Noah to save any of the dinosaurs?



You just assume he didn't...no? He doesn't name specific animals, he said bring of every fowl, every cattle, and everything that creep upon the Earth. I think there was probably Dinosaurs on the ark.

When was the word "Dinosaur" first used? The answer, 1841.

So even if they did name all the animals on the ark, Dinosaurs would not have been named by that name.

The Bible refers to Dragons...probably Dinosaurs.



hey a simple "i don't know" would suffice haha
that's the main reason i kept asking those questions was to get an "i don't know"
the universe is full of mystery. that's the beauty of it.

at point after the flood were Dragons mentioned?
i bet they were killed in the flood.
I know just before the flood the Bible talks about the "Sons of God" coming down and making it with the womenfolk. that is really quite freaky if you think about it....if they were real that would Have to be aliens in my opinion. the only other option would have to be angels and thatd just be even more messed up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 391254


I don't know. But that's what I believe.

Last Edited by TurnOffYourTV on 09/18/2009 11:32 AM
KILL YOUR TV NOW! IT IS HYPNOTIZING AND BRAINWASHING YOU! TURN IT OFF FOR GOOD!
Duncan Kunz

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09/18/2009 10:02 AM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Duncan says: Have you ever taken a geology course at a JuCo? If you're really interested in such, just a basic GEO 101, Introduction to Physical Geology, would probably answer most of your questions.

I have already been indoctrinated thanks.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


If you consider any education you had as "indoctrination", that suggests you may have or had an agenda/bias which could have impacted your views of what it was you learned in the first place.

I have even studied evolution some on my own. I just don't agree with it.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


One of the disadvantages of studying something "on your own" is that we tend to study those sources with which we already agree. This is one of the benefits to taking courses in college: it's not that you can't learn it on your own, but that you will probably be exposed to both sides of an issue.

Certainly something as many-faceted as evolution demands that anyone who is truly interested must look at various sources, especially if they conflict. Limiting one's study to Ernst Haeckel's doctrine of "organic recapitulation", a series of Jack Chick tracts -- or even just the early works of Darwin himself -- will not give you a broad understanding of the issue.

Dating the layers based on what order they are in is not accurate in my opinion.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


It is in the eyes of almost everyone else; it was Charles Lyell who first came up with his "uniformitarianism", a hypothesis which has veen validated constant times. Of course, there are cases where dikes, sills, and other magmatic intrusions will appear to turn the "rule" upside down (literally), but a course in stratigraphics shows exactly why and how that happens. In any case, as you're probably aware from your readings in geology, the "uniformitarianism" approach works best with sedimentary and other depositional formations.

A really big flood could make many "layers" of sediment at once...with no problem.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV


Actually, there would be a lot of problems with that.

First, because a supposed "really big" flood would have to wash down mountains with varying layers of sediment-causing structure; as you're undoubtedly aware, orogenies simply don't work that way.

Second, although water can remove sedimentary layers (as shown by the fact that everything in the Grand Canyon above the late Jurassic Canyon Redwall formation is gone, as is everything in the Great Discontinuity between the Precambrian schist at the Inner Gorge and the Permian depositions directly above it), catastrophic floods, such as the flooding of what is now the Black Sea about ten thousand years ago, remove material much better than it deposits it!

Third, there simply isn't enough water on the Earth (nor is there any evidence that there ever was) to cover cover it in its entirety as the Gilgamesh or Noahic myths assert that there were.

Last Edited by Duncan Kunz on 09/18/2009 11:51 AM
Where's the EVIDENCE, Jim?
nomuse (NLI)
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09/19/2009 06:43 PM
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
I have already been indoctrinated thanks. I have even studied evolution some on my own. I just don't agree with it. Dating the layers based on what order they are in is not accurate in my opinion. A really big flood could make many "layers" of sediment at once...with no problem.
 Quoting: TurnOffYourTV



Falsified by experiment.

Also falsified by such things as layers of....salt. What, did the Flood dry up, depositing a layer of salt as the water evaporated, then come back to deposit more layers of sediment?

There are numerous similar problems.
nomuse (NLI)
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
If there were vast spans of time there should be erosion between the strata layers.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 773549


There is. It depends on the strata, however. Often very long stretches of time will pass between deposition events.

"This general evenness and smoothness of sedimentary layers throughout the geologic column is rather odd especially considering the fact that the current weathering rate for the continents of today averages about 6cm/thousand years for the continental shelves. This means that in less than 10 million years, the entire continental shelves of today would be washed into the oceans to be replaced by new underlying materials."
American Journal of Science, Vol. 276: 1976.
Judson, S. and D. F. Ritter, "Rates of regional denudation on the United States", Journal of Geophysical Research 69:3395-3401, 1964.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 773549


The quote above does not occur in the 1964 paper. If it exists, it might come from "Pragmatism versus materialism in stratigraphy"
J. E. O'Rourke
Am J Sci 1976 276: 47-55

Which is frequently cited by creationists. Unfortunately, I do not have permissions on this machine to download the whole paper. However, the brunt of O'Rourke's paper is on the use of index fossils, and he has no reason to cite Judson.

Digging deeper (!) I find that the phraseology above (though not the quote as given) occurs on Sean M. Pittman's rambling web page, [link to www.detectingdesign.com]



This is why it is so annoying trying to talk to Creationists. They copy and copy and copy some phrase they think supports their argument like a massive, long-running game of "telephone." It takes so damned long to drill down to find the original work they are quoting from (which, inevitably, says nothing of the sort, or at the very least, isn't what it pretended to be; a "scientific paper in a refereed journal by a renowned geologist" turns out to be a web page by a retired pediatrician.)
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
We are living in a very dangerous world. The adaptation takes place over multiple generations as the survivors pass on the genes to their offspring. It is a slow process compared to the very short period of you life.

You would not stand on the edge of a lake for a million years, because you will not live that long. Standing there is not enough you and your kind need to be challenged by the environment for many generations. Those that survive to reproduce pass on their genes to the future generations. Those that have characteristics that are not suited to survival do not.



In order for Evolution to work.

It would have to happen quickly, very quickly.

Because no fish, will make it out of the water, unless that adaptation happens very fast.

If there were a source of food, or other resource the fish needed near the shore, the fish with a characteristic that enabled it to get it more often tends to survive and breed. Such a characteristic might be the ability to jump a little higher out of the water, or it might be deformed fins that it could propel itself over sand more quickly than fins alone. It could be any such characteristic. As it tends to breed more, the genes tend to increase in the population. Over many generations, especially with inbreeding, such a characteristic becomes dominant in that population. As the food source is used up, or the pool dries a little or what ever changes takes place, those carrying this now amplified characteristic, become the forbears of the next group that is challenged by the changing environment. This is a slow process.



If this was the case.

We would see creatures in pre, mid, latter evolve state.

and

This is simply not the case.
 Quoting: tim AKA Jarhead


I agree with you. We would have humans and subhumans, ones that if you bred together would produce nothing. Like a sheep and a goat. But all humans can breed and produce. Cause we are all alike. None evolved over the other. All men are created equal.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Wow... so much stupid contained in one thread.

I love how people in this thread that are trying to bash evolution don't even grasp the most basic tenets.

overcap
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Me jumping in the Ocean, expecting to grow gills.


Interesting fact, there is a stage in the early human embryo development when humans do show gill slits, but not functional gills.

In fact these slits are present in virtually all vertebrates during the embryonic stage.

Some brainiac called Haeckel proposed that the gill slits (pharyngeal arches) in the neck of the human embryo represented an adult "fishlike" developmental stage as well as signifying a fishlike ancestor. Embryonic pharyngeal arches, the invaginations between the gill pouches or pharyngeal pouches, open the pharynx to the outside.

Such gill pouches appear in all tetrapod animal embryos: in mammals, the first gill bar (in the first gill pouch) develops into the lower jaw (Meckel's cartilage), the malleus and the stapes. At a later stage, all gill slits close, only the ear remaining open.

It is important to note (before I get burned at the stake) that these pharyngeal arches are not and could not develop into actual functional gills.

Still, pretty interesting.

Jeez, I killed the thread...
Cool.
\o/
 Quoting: Preacher Zero


you do know Haeckle's proposal not only ended up being proved wrong with embryology but Ernest Haeckle himself forged evidence to support his claim (this is where we get the term heckler from) and he is not the only evolutionist to do this and you dont have to be a christian to refute evolution many arguements evolutionist make have either been proven wrong or found to be made up and this is because its the best arguments they have for example evolutionist for years argued that people being shorter way back when was proof that we have evolved but when it was further examined it was found that there nutrition was not as good they lacked many vitamins necessary for growth such as vitamin D and even what you are talking about above is micro evolution which almost everyone excepts macro evolution is where the line gets drawn also Darwin himself refuted his own theory he called it "worthless speculation" do a little research on the frauds of evolution because the arguement you just made was very outdated and getting way off topic going into micro evolution also do research on evidence that evolution is not real i doubt yo have i have done research on both and i mad my conclusion you should truly make yours here are some videos that may help you very much

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

hope this may help you draw your own educated conclusion so you won't look like a dumbass spewing totaly stupid arguemnets good luck
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
And,

If I stood at the edge of the Ocean, for a million years.

I still don't think I would grow gills.

Regardless, of my need to be in the Ocean.
 Quoting: tim AKA Jarhead


Hey, it only took the dinosaurs a thousand generations of useless flapping to evolve functional wings!

You gotta have some determination.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Creatures would be evolving into God knows what, all around us.
 Quoting: tim AKA Jarhead


They are. But your imaginary God has nothing to do with it.
tim AKA Jarhead (OP)

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06/23/2010 09:13 PM

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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
And,

If I stood at the edge of the Ocean, for a million years.

I still don't think I would grow gills.

Regardless, of my need to be in the Ocean.


Hey, it only took the dinosaurs a thousand generations of useless flapping to evolve functional wings!

You gotta have some determination.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 300884



LOL
tim AKA Jarhead (OP)

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06/23/2010 09:15 PM

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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Creatures would be evolving into God knows what, all around us.


They are. But your imaginary God has nothing to do with it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1006069



Been hit too many times with the stupid stick, HUH.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Evolution, along with modern theories of geology and astronomy were invented to lull the masses into a state of complicity.

"Present continuity implies the improbability of past catastrophism and violence of change, either in the lifeless or the living world; moreover, we seek to interpret the changes and laws of past time through those we observe at the present time. This was Darwin's secret, learned from Lyell" - H.F. Osborn.

Truth is we live in a highly dynamic, rapidly (ever) changing environment on earth and the universe.
nomind

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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Creatures would be evolving into God knows what, all around us.

The Fauna of this World, is just not hardy enough to do much evolving.

Enduring, Acclimating Yes.

Evolving No.

To think that a Fish crawled out of the Ocean and sprouted Legs,

is like,

Me jumping in the Ocean, expecting to grow gills.
 Quoting: tim AKA Jarhead


It takes hundreds of thousands, millions of years for evolution to make a significant difference in a species, to the point where you can call it a new species.. Stuff is doing that all around us, animals adapting to our cities and stuff, but very slowly.

As for the dangerous stuff.. they are out there, but our technology is superior to evolution's speed
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Thread: Nibiru, or how to appear like you know what you are talking about
tim AKA Jarhead (OP)

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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World
Creatures would be evolving into God knows what, all around us.

The Fauna of this World, is just not hardy enough to do much evolving.

Enduring, Acclimating Yes.

Evolving No.

To think that a Fish crawled out of the Ocean and sprouted Legs,

is like,

Me jumping in the Ocean, expecting to grow gills.


It takes hundreds of thousands, millions of years for evolution to make a significant difference in a species, to the point where you can call it a new species.. Stuff is doing that all around us, animals adapting to our cities and stuff, but very slowly.

As for the dangerous stuff.. they are out there, but our technology is superior to evolution's speed
 Quoting: nomind



The only way evolution would work.

Is if it happened very quickly, like minutes or hours or a few days.

Not thousands or millions of years.

A creature in a lethal environment would perish very quickly unless it could evolve quickly.

Like very quickly.

Our adaptability range is very limited.
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Re: If Evolution was Real, We would live in a Very Dangerous World

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