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Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest

 
SheldonCooper
User ID: 773110
United Kingdom
09/20/2009 06:04 AM
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Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
[link to www.dailymail.co.uk]

A Christian couple have been charged with a criminal offence after taking part in what they regarded as a reasonable discussion about religion with guests at their hotel.

Ben and Sharon Vogelenzang were arrested after a Muslim woman complained to police that she had been offended by their comments.

They have been charged under public order laws with using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words’ that were ‘religiously aggravated’.

The couple, whose trial has been set for December, face a fine of up to £5,000 and a criminal record if they are convicted.

Although the facts are disputed, it is thought that during the conversation the couple were challenged over their Christian beliefs

It is understood that they suggested that Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a warlord and that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.

They deny, however, that their comments were threatening and argue that they had every right to defend and explain their beliefs.

Mrs Vogelenzang, 54, who has run the Bounty House Hotel near Aintree racecourse in Liverpool with her husband Ben, 53, for six years, said: ‘Nothing like this has happened to us before. We are completely shocked.’

She added that the episode had damaged their business and they had been forced to lay off staff and run the nine-bedroom hotel by themselves, leaving them exhausted.

Sources said that a number of guests staying at the hotel, which charges £92 a night for a double room, were having breakfast in its restaurant on March 20 when comments were made about religion.

One of those involved was the Muslim woman, who was staying at the hotel while she received treatment at a hospital nearby.

The couple, who are members of the Bootle Christian Fellowship, and their solicitor, David Whiting, said they could not discuss the content of the conversation for legal reasons. But the independent lobby group, the Christian Institute, which has seen both the prosecution and defence legal papers, is supporting their defence.

Mr Whiting, who last year successfully defended street preacher Anthony Rollins in Birmingham, said: ‘There is a dispute as to the facts of the allegations, but Ben and Sharon do not accept they were threatening, abusive or insulting.

‘They are committed Christians and it is the defence’s contention that they have every right to defend their religious beliefs and explain those beliefs to others who do not hold similar views.’

After the incident, the couple voluntarily attended St Anne’s Street police station in Liverpool, where they were interviewed under caution.

In July they were arrested and charged under Section 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 and Section 31 (1) (c) and (5) of the Crime and Disorder Act 1998.

They appeared briefly at Liverpool Magistrates Court on Friday to hear the date of their trial before magistrates, and were granted bail on the condition that they did not approach any of the witnesses expected to appear.

The use by the police of the Public Order Act to arrest people over offensive comments has dismayed a number of lawyers, who say the legislation was passed to deal with law and order problems in the streets.

Neil Addison, a prominent criminal barrister and expert in religious law, said: ‘The purpose of the Public Order Act is to prevent disorder, but I’m very concerned that the police are using it merely because someone is offended.

‘It should be used where there is violence, yobbish behaviour or gratuitous personal abuse. It should never be used where there has been a personal conversation or debate with views firmly expressed.

‘If someone is in a discussion and they don’t like what they are hearing, they can walk away.’

He added that the police had a legal duty under the Human Rights Act to defend free speech ‘and I think they are forgetting that’.

A number of Church leaders in Liverpool have written to Keir Starmer, the Director of Public Prosecutions, voicing their concerns and pressing for the case to be dropped.

Christian Institute spokesman Mike Judge said ‘important’ issues of religious liberty were at stake.

‘In recent years, we have backed several cases where Christians have suffered unfair treatment because of their faith,’ he said. ‘We have detected a worrying tendency for public bodies to misapply the law in a way that seems to sideline Christianity more than other faiths.’

A spokesman for Merseyside Police said: ‘It would be inappropriate to comment as this is an ongoing case.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/20/2009 06:20 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
whatever
yet another (of about 20 million)reason EVERY religious person should keep their opinions to themselves...
Anonymous Coward
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Finland
09/20/2009 06:35 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
not surprised this is happening in UK...
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 06:40 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
not surprised this is happening in UK...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 654301


Also I wouldn't be surprised if it's being exaggerated by the Daily Mail.
Zagreus

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09/20/2009 06:42 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
A bunch of idiots arguing over which imaginary friend is the best...no wonder the world is so screwed up.
VVizz

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09/20/2009 06:55 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
It is understood that they suggested that Mohammed, the founder of Islam, was a warlord
 Quoting: SheldonCooper 773110


Krisna was a Warlord too. It has nothing to do with the principels to have good understandings of good moral or to have connectuion with the 'God' Consciousness.

and that traditional Muslim dress for women was a form of bondage.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper 773110


It was a protection for the sunlight. So the sun would not afflict the skin of the women. However it is true, this custom is changed by the interpretation of some believers to hide the women, to lock the women in a cabin, a cage to take away her beauty, her forms so she can not seduce men.
This is done by people who think they do well, based on THEIR interpretation of Muslim faith, but they are doing just the same as the nuns and the priests of the early 1900, who believed sexuality need not to be expressed.

In every religion You do have people who divert the original belief, who take advantage of that religion to force other people to behave as they think they should behave. But they are using AND enforce only their perception, their belief of that religion.

This was not intented anyway by those who brought the Belief to the people, which is mainly a set of morals, a set of guidelance to express love, charity and tenderness for Your fellow brother and sister. To put a women by force in clothes, so she can not express who she is, even she can't show her body is not an order by any God of Love.
But it is a rule, made by people with twisted thoughts and beliefs. It is made by people who do not understand completely the 'Holy' books, because the principle of Love superseeds all other 'guidelines', even 'interpretations' of the priests, translators etc.

All the Best,

VVizz of Ur
BlueStraza

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09/20/2009 07:21 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
im not a firm believer in any bs religion... but being arrested over a debate and actually haveing a fine and a court date set? come the fuck on.
Lotus Feet

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United Kingdom
09/20/2009 07:23 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
No surprise this is a well worn strategy from Islam its how they take over countries. When an Islamic friend said she was insulted by us speaking the truth about her religion. I asked her to look within at why she felt insulted to heal the root cause of the core issue.

"He added that the police had a legal duty under the Human Rights Act to defend free speech ‘and I think they are forgetting that’."


Indeed.

The police should pin this on every wall.

UNITED NATIONS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 19

Everyone as the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions, without interference, and to seek, receive, and impart information and ideas through any media, and regardless of frontiers.


People can also put it on the front page of every forum.

The truth of the matter is not what Muslims wish to hear.

Decapitation in Islamic History

While some Islamists might justify murder of prisoners on Qur‘anic prescription, others reinforce their conclusions by drawing analogies to events during the almost 1,400 years of Islamic history. Here beheading of captives is a recurring theme. Both Islamic regimes and their opposition have utilized beheadings as both military and judicial policy.

The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.[21] Islamic leaders from Muhammad's time until today have followed his model. Examples of decapitation, of both the living and the dead, in Islamic history are myriad. Yusuf b. Tashfin (d. 1106) led the Al-Murabit (Almoravid) Empire to conquer from western Sahara to central Spain. After the battle of Zallaqa in 1086, he had 24,000 corpses of the defeated Castilians beheaded "and piled them up to make a sort of minaret for the muezzins who, standing on the piles of headless cadavers, sang the praises of Allah."[22] He then had the detached heads sent to all the major cities of North Africa and Spain as an example of Christian impotence. The Al-Murabits were conquered the following century by the Al-Muwahhids (Almohads), under whose rule Castilian Christian enemies were beheaded after any lost battles.

[link to www.meforum.org]


Lotus

Last Edited by Lotus Feet on 09/20/2009 07:26 AM
i love satan
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 07:25 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
A bunch of idiots arguing over which imaginary friend is the best...no wonder the world is so screwed up.
 Quoting: Zagreus

+1
Anonymous Coward
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Finland
09/20/2009 07:27 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
UK is front country when it comes to NWO, big brother and orwellian society. THere are cameres everywhere, even in private homes....I can give you all links if someone doesnt believe.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 07:29 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Quit shoving religion down everybody's throats and you won't find yourself in court. Even this stupid brother in law of mine, he's a pentecostal preacher. You guys know they just passed a bill where you can not speak against homosexuals or anything right? You can't speak about it in your church, because it will be against the law. He says he's still gonna speak against it. I told him to get ready for the lawsuits because they will be coming.
You will not be able to protect your children from pedophiles soon either. Because they can also sue you for harassment if you say something to them or try to say, move them out of your neighborhood.
Our children will not have any rights if this does come to pass. They will be victims because we will not be allowed to protect them.

I got one thing to say about all of this,though. If you ever touch any of my children, You'll be dead before you hit the floor. Because normal people will protect their kids. And I say normal as in mentally competent.
TheRestless

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09/20/2009 07:29 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
whatever
yet another (of about 20 million)reason EVERY religious person should keep their opinions to themselves...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487397



and you too,

so keep your oppinion for yourself, if you cant say anything good
Lotus Feet

User ID: 602386
United Kingdom
09/20/2009 07:32 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
A bunch of idiots arguing over which imaginary friend is the best...no wonder the world is so screwed up.

+1
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 774925


Do catch up this is about the credibility of the prophet of Islam, a religion that wishes to dominate the world under Islam and Sharia Law that is incompatible with human rights legislation. This isn't just about religion because Islam is a political ideology with a global plan to have you all bowing on your knees to Allah.

Lotus
i love satan
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
09/20/2009 07:34 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
After the incident, the couple voluntarily attended St Anne’s Street police station in Liverpool, where they were interviewed under caution.
there ya go. talk to a pig and he will anal rape ya. idiots.
officer: "good afternoon sir"
individual: "is there a charge officer"
FubarMan

User ID: 752245
United States
09/20/2009 07:43 AM

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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Quit shoving religion down everybody's throats and you won't find yourself in court. Even this stupid brother in law of mine, he's a pentecostal preacher. You guys know they just passed a bill where you can not speak against homosexuals or anything right? You can't speak about it in your church, because it will be against the law. He says he's still gonna speak against it. I told him to get ready for the lawsuits because they will be coming.
You will not be able to protect your children from pedophiles soon either. Because they can also sue you for harassment if you say something to them or try to say, move them out of your neighborhood.
Our children will not have any rights if this does come to pass. They will be victims because we will not be allowed to protect them.

I got one thing to say about all of this,though. If you ever touch any of my children, You'll be dead before you hit the floor. Because normal people will protect their kids. And I say normal as in mentally competent.
 Quoting: hawk8414


You are a passionate man who loves his children. I would encourage you not to kill the pedophile. Your children need you around to protect them from all the pedophiles.
SpaceCommand
USCF National Master FIDE 2125

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09/20/2009 07:55 AM

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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
A bunch of idiots arguing over which imaginary friend is the best...no wonder the world is so screwed up.
 Quoting: Zagreus


Yeah, and their imaginary buddy tells them to do things written years ago, and they do it without thinking. Because their imaginary buddy is better than themselves, even though it is apparent that he is quirky and has ill intentions when you defy his mindlessness, they persist to act irrationally.

They are unwilling to settle once and for all that a truly good and excellent imaginary buddy who is an actual friend to everyone is even possible, and that deity is universal. Instead they attach to their local folkways and customs over and above their deity, and act once again without thinking.

All the scientific minds that have created modern civilization of course take a back seat to their so called faith, which from the center of hell. It depends upon punishment, and has little love or compassion. Yes their imaginary buddy is just too expensive.
"With an eye made quiet by the power of harmony and the deep power of joy, we see into the life of things." William Wordsworth

And yet the same revolutionary beliefs for which our forebears fought are still at issue around the globe—the belief that the rights of man come not from the generosity of the state, but from the hand of God.

John F. Kennedy Inaugural Address

Lincoln's economic advisor Henry C. Carey explained the universal issue in his 1851 Harmony of Interests:

"Two systems are before the world.... One looks to pauperism, ignorance, depopulation, and barbarism; the other to increasing wealth, comfort, intelligence, combination of action, and civilization. One looks towards universal war; the other towards universal peace. One is the English system; the other ... the American system, for ... elevating while equalizing the condition of man throughout the world."
dutchman
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Netherlands
09/20/2009 07:56 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
thyx but is time to do something our sellf they use our laws for there course the only is eye for a eye tooth for a tooth and the murder christians all over this plantd
No surprise this is a well worn strategy from Islam its how they take over countries. When an Islamic friend said she was insulted by us speaking the truth about her religion. I asked her to look within at why she felt insulted to heal the root cause of the core issue.

"He added that the police had a legal duty under the Human Rights Act to defend free speech ‘and I think they are forgetting that’."


Indeed.

The police should pin this on every wall.

UNITED NATIONS UNIVERSAL DECLARATION OF HUMAN RIGHTS ARTICLE 19

Everyone as the right to freedom of opinion and expression; this right includes freedom to hold opinions, without interference, and to seek, receive, and impart information and ideas through any media, and regardless of frontiers.


People can also put it on the front page of every forum.

The truth of the matter is not what Muslims wish to hear.

Decapitation in Islamic History

While some Islamists might justify murder of prisoners on Qur‘anic prescription, others reinforce their conclusions by drawing analogies to events during the almost 1,400 years of Islamic history. Here beheading of captives is a recurring theme. Both Islamic regimes and their opposition have utilized beheadings as both military and judicial policy.

The practice of beheading non-Muslim captives extends back to the Prophet himself. Ibn Ishaq (d. 768 C.E.), the earliest biographer of Muhammad, is recorded as saying that the Prophet ordered the execution by decapitation of 700 men of the Jewish Banu Qurayza tribe in Medina for allegedly plotting against him.[21] Islamic leaders from Muhammad's time until today have followed his model. Examples of decapitation, of both the living and the dead, in Islamic history are myriad. Yusuf b. Tashfin (d. 1106) led the Al-Murabit (Almoravid) Empire to conquer from western Sahara to central Spain. After the battle of Zallaqa in 1086, he had 24,000 corpses of the defeated Castilians beheaded "and piled them up to make a sort of minaret for the muezzins who, standing on the piles of headless cadavers, sang the praises of Allah."[22] He then had the detached heads sent to all the major cities of North Africa and Spain as an example of Christian impotence. The Al-Murabits were conquered the following century by the Al-Muwahhids (Almohads), under whose rule Castilian Christian enemies were beheaded after any lost battles.

[link to www.meforum.org]


Lotus
 Quoting: Lotus Feet
Anonymous Coward
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United States
09/20/2009 07:58 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Quit shoving religion down everybody's throats and you won't find yourself in court. Even this stupid brother in law of mine, he's a pentecostal preacher. You guys know they just passed a bill where you can not speak against homosexuals or anything right? You can't speak about it in your church, because it will be against the law. He says he's still gonna speak against it. I told him to get ready for the lawsuits because they will be coming.
You will not be able to protect your children from pedophiles soon either. Because they can also sue you for harassment if you say something to them or try to say, move them out of your neighborhood.
Our children will not have any rights if this does come to pass. They will be victims because we will not be allowed to protect them.

I got one thing to say about all of this,though. If you ever touch any of my children, You'll be dead before you hit the floor. Because normal people will protect their kids. And I say normal as in mentally competent.


You are a passionate man who loves his children. I would encourage you not to kill the pedophile. Your children need you around to protect them from all the pedophiles.
 Quoting: FubarMan


Fubarman, thanks, but hun, I'm a woman. And yes, I love children because they need our love and support. They have such good sugars when you steal kissies from them,I babysit 2 boys,too btw.LOL! IF anybody hurts a child, like that or intentionally abusing them or neglecting them,it's on like Donkey Kong, man! Even my family knows this. I'm very protective over children. I cannot stand it when they are outside in the car screaming during a hot day while the mother or somebody is inside shopping. That makes me crazy,cuz I think the poor thing is being tortured. It tears my nerves all to pieces.
But as far as religion goes, people do need to stop trying to convert others. They'll learn soon enough when the courts are tied up over religious lawsuits.
The Conservative Monster

User ID: 747310
United States
09/20/2009 08:02 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
A bunch of idiots arguing over which imaginary friend is the best...no wonder the world is so screwed up.
 Quoting: Zagreus


That is like you getting arrested for worshiping Darwin and debating about it. If you think that you evolved from an ape....that is your issue.

Last Edited by The Conservative Monster on 09/20/2009 08:02 AM
FubarMan

User ID: 752245
United States
09/20/2009 08:13 AM

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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Quit shoving religion down everybody's throats and you won't find yourself in court. Even this stupid brother in law of mine, he's a pentecostal preacher. You guys know they just passed a bill where you can not speak against homosexuals or anything right? You can't speak about it in your church, because it will be against the law. He says he's still gonna speak against it. I told him to get ready for the lawsuits because they will be coming.
You will not be able to protect your children from pedophiles soon either. Because they can also sue you for harassment if you say something to them or try to say, move them out of your neighborhood.
Our children will not have any rights if this does come to pass. They will be victims because we will not be allowed to protect them.

I got one thing to say about all of this,though. If you ever touch any of my children, You'll be dead before you hit the floor. Because normal people will protect their kids. And I say normal as in mentally competent.


You are a passionate man who loves his children. I would encourage you not to kill the pedophile. Your children need you around to protect them from all the pedophiles.


Fubarman, thanks, but hun, I'm a woman. And yes, I love children because they need our love and support. They have such good sugars when you steal kissies from them,I babysit 2 boys,too btw.LOL! IF anybody hurts a child, like that or intentionally abusing them or neglecting them,it's on like Donkey Kong, man! Even my family knows this. I'm very protective over children. I cannot stand it when they are outside in the car screaming during a hot day while the mother or somebody is inside shopping. That makes me crazy,cuz I think the poor thing is being tortured. It tears my nerves all to pieces.
But as far as religion goes, people do need to stop trying to convert others. They'll learn soon enough when the courts are tied up over religious lawsuits.
 Quoting: hawk8414

I am sorry, you were talking so strongly I mistook you for a man.
Every situation is unique. There is a time and a place for every conversation if it is not forced and lies within mutual respect.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/20/2009 08:14 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
This is all about the recent UN resolution forbidding criticism of Religion - (Islam of course)

Purely designed to intimidate and prevent any open and free discussion in the West about the nature goals and intent of the Cult that is steadilty colonising outbreeding and replacing the native population.

The Police leadership as allways seem to be falling over themselves to demonstrate thier abject obedience to PC credentials to their NU labour masters - no doubt the sole criteria for advancement these days.
Anonymous Coward
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India
09/20/2009 08:18 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Never argue about religion with ANYBODY verbally.

If you find yourself in such a position just keep repeating these:

ALL RELIGION IS BAD AND EVIL.

WE MUST ERADICATE ALL RELIGION FROM THIS PLANET>


Thats it. Those two phrases should convey your feelings .
Just keep parroting them.
Enaid

User ID: 515273
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09/20/2009 08:36 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
whatever
yet another (of about 20 million)reason EVERY religious person should keep their opinions to themselves...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487397



No kidding. Sheesh. This has gotten so thick around here it has changed my feelings for this place.
Personal responsibility - try it sometime. Quit blaming others for your bad choices. Consequences happen.

:enaid11:
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 08:36 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Islamification process was highlighted once again with an official instruction to Home Office staff not to eat in front of Muslims during the Ramadan fast.

The directive echoes an order issued last year to non-Muslim Tower Hamlets council staff which ordered them to observe the Ramadan fast.

In Manchester, state schools have also been ordered to close during Muslim holy days in an attempt to reduce the truancy rate.

The latest bowing down before the Islamic colonisation process came with a taxpayer-funded Home Office internal memo on how that department’s employees should behave during Ramadan.

During this religious holy month, devout Muslims do not drink or eat from dawn until sunset and must avoid “all obscene and irreligious sights and sounds.”

The Home Office Islamic Network (HOIN) produced the five-page information sheet which says: “In practical terms, please be sensitive when eating lunch near a Muslim colleague who is fasting.

“This can make an individual feel hungrier and make it more challenging to observe the fast.”

The HOIN also urged managers to be flexible over working arrangements. It says: “The most likely need Muslim staff may present to managers during this period is for flexibility around working hours and break times as those fasting will have a slightly different routine from usual.

“Managers and Muslim staff should discuss what their needs are and be responsive and sensitive.”

The document was distributed to staff and posted on the department’s internal intranet system.

A Home Office spokesman said that the Islamic Network was “one of a number of staff faith and equality groups within the Home Office and was paid for by the taxpayer.”

The document also said that “non-Muslims should consider fasting for a day.”

* Last year, the Muslim-controlled Tower Hamlets council in London issued instructions for council meetings during the Ramadan month to be kept to a minimum and for all non-Muslim councillors to observe the Ramadan fast.

Council leader Lutfur Rahman, who was born in Pakistan, and his deputy, Siraj Islam, sent an e-mail to all councillors outlining arrangements for Town Hall committee meetings during Ramadan. The e-mail said that all meetings be kept to a minimum to accommodate fasting councillors, and asked all other councillors to resist eating until the breaking of the fast at sunset.

* In Manchester, schools will be able to close for Islamic holidays under new plans to “reduce high absence rates.”

Almost one in ten of all absence days in the city’s schools are noted as religious observance. In an attempt to improve these figures, schools will be allowed to opt to close if 40 percent of pupils are likely to take time off.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 08:48 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
this kind of shit will get worse until it can't be contained.
Anonymous Coward
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United Kingdom
09/20/2009 08:51 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
im not a firm believer in any bs religion... but being arrested over a debate and actually haveing a fine and a court date set? come the fuck on.
 Quoting: BlueStraza



bump Thing is, no-one will be surprised to see that this happened in the UK.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 08:53 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
whatever
yet another (of about 20 million)reason EVERY religious person should keep their opinions to themselves...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487397



Really? You friggen ignoramus. Let's outlaw all speech that offends.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 09:03 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
Quit shoving religion down everybody's throats and you won't find yourself in court. Even this stupid brother in law of mine, he's a pentecostal preacher. You guys know they just passed a bill where you can not speak against homosexuals or anything right? You can't speak about it in your church, because it will be against the law. He says he's still gonna speak against it. I told him to get ready for the lawsuits because they will be coming.
You will not be able to protect your children from pedophiles soon either. Because they can also sue you for harassment if you say something to them or try to say, move them out of your neighborhood.
Our children will not have any rights if this does come to pass. They will be victims because we will not be allowed to protect them.

I got one thing to say about all of this,though. If you ever touch any of my children, You'll be dead before you hit the floor. Because normal people will protect their kids. And I say normal as in mentally competent.


You are a passionate man who loves his children. I would encourage you not to kill the pedophile. Your children need you around to protect them from all the pedophiles.


Fubarman, thanks, but hun, I'm a woman. And yes, I love children because they need our love and support. They have such good sugars when you steal kissies from them,I babysit 2 boys,too btw.LOL! IF anybody hurts a child, like that or intentionally abusing them or neglecting them,it's on like Donkey Kong, man! Even my family knows this. I'm very protective over children. I cannot stand it when they are outside in the car screaming during a hot day while the mother or somebody is inside shopping. That makes me crazy,cuz I think the poor thing is being tortured. It tears my nerves all to pieces.
But as far as religion goes, people do need to stop trying to convert others. They'll learn soon enough when the courts are tied up over religious lawsuits.

I am sorry, you were talking so strongly I mistook you for a man.
Every situation is unique. There is a time and a place for every conversation if it is not forced and lies within mutual respect.
 Quoting: FubarMan


True, but it's also about learning how to become more spiritual,not more religious.That can be done if all the world's religions learned to take the best of them and combine the spiritual practices,not the religious practices.

Huge difference,there.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 775375
United States
09/20/2009 09:10 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
"They have been charged under public order laws with using ‘threatening, abusive or insulting words’ that were ‘religiously aggravated’."

I would argue the statute in question is, "Overly broad and void for vagueness."

It’s just way too subjective and being applied in a manner that is fundamentally unfair because it lacks in providing equal protection under the law.
Basically, the people charged were feeling attacked (subjective) because a Muslim woman took offense with their Christian beliefs and said some insulting words to them about it (also subjective-it’s not insulting unless someone takes offense) and they defended themselves in civil discussion.

So why wasn’t the Muslim woman charged to?
Hence, my assertion of the case lacking fundamental fairness.

Now I do not know what England has going on the way of remedies for violating people’s civil rights, if they even recognize such a concept. Also, I do not know if there is a recognition of freedom of speech in England, but from what I have read in their press, there doesn’t seem to be any. Ditto for freedom to practice religion.

However, if the woman was merely a guest there and minding her own business, and not harassing them over their religion and they took it upon themselves to comment on her attire and religion, then it’s another matter. That said, the law being used to too vague and there must be another way to deal with people discriminated against by businesses in England. If there isn’t, they need to address that and pass a clear, non/less-subjective, and appropriate law to deal with such matters.
That’s my 2 cents.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 775375
United States
09/20/2009 09:18 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
AC 775207,
Interesting comment.
If a Christian is observing Lent or fasting, are Muslims instructed to not eat, or not eat certain foods, in front of them? I doubt it.
So, let's consider the purpose of religious fasting. How meaningfull is the abstinance if it is easy and not a sacrifice?
I don't know about Muslims, but Christians are not to let on that they are fasting, privately praying, or other activities because personal religious observances are between them and God and not meant to be for personal glorification of how religious you are.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 775398
United Kingdom
09/20/2009 09:22 AM
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Re: Christian hotel owners hauled before court after defending their beliefs in discussion with Muslim guest
calm down, calm down!

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