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A surefire way to debunk atheism?

 
Anon
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09/20/2009 11:47 PM
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A surefire way to debunk atheism?
'Nothing Created Everything' exposes scientific impossibility of evolution.

What is it about a California-based Christian evangelist from New Zealand that makes him irresistible to even the most sophisticated secularist?

"You sir, are a fool who could not lie straight in bed. It is beneath me to even address you," wrote an online respondent to Ray Comfort's weblog Friday, "but I was passing by and saw this tripe, I could not constrain myself."

The lively interaction on his Atheist Central blog with scores of atheists and agnostics of all kinds – from young students to decorated scientists – has given Comfort unusual insight into the skeptical mind and led him to conclude atheism rests on a remarkably illogical and unscientific premise that became the title of his latest book, "Nothing Created Everything."

"I found over the last year, when I said an atheist is someone who believes nothing created everything, they go berserk and say, 'We don't believe that,'" said Comfort, co-host of "The Way of the Master" television show with actor Kirk Cameron and the head of Bellflower, Calif.-based Living Waters ministry.

But Comfort insists atheists clearly believe nothing created everything.
"All you have to do," Comfort told WND, "is push them into a corner and say, 'So, you're an atheist?' 'Yep.' 'So you believe that nothing created everything, a scientific impossibility?' And they'll say, 'Well, no.' 'So you believe something created everything?' And they say, 'Well, yeah. Something did, obviously.' 'So you're not an atheist?' 'OK, I'm not an atheist.'

"'This something you believe created everything," Comfort continued, "do you think it was intelligent? I mean, could you create a bird or a flower or a tree or a blade of grass from nothing?' And they'll say, 'No, I can't do that.' 'Well, is this something you believe created everything intelligent?' And they'll say, 'Obviously.' And I'll say, 'Congratulations, you've just become an anti-science, knuckle-dragger in the eyes of our learning institutions, because you believe in intelligent design.'"


Richard Dawkins

To help make the point in his book, Comfort culled quotes from leading scientists who believe "nothing created everything," including British biologist and unofficial leader of the popular atheist movement, Richard Dawkins.

Dawkins, in his 2004 book "The Ancestor's Tale" wrote, "The fact that life evolved out of nearly nothing, some 10 billion years after the universe evolved literally out of nothing, is a fact so staggering that I would be mad to attempt words to do it justice."

Among others, Comfort cites physicist Robert A.J. Matthews of Ashton University in England, who wrote, "It is now becoming clear that everything can – and probably did – come from nothing."

American physicist Paul Davies of Arizona State University wrote, "Even if we don't have a precise idea of exactly what took place at the beginning, we can at least see that the origin of the universe from nothing need not be unlawful or unnatural or unscientific."

"The whole thought that nothing created everything is an intellectual embarrassment for atheists," Comfort told WND.

He writes in his book: "There's no way to say it kindly, but such thoughts show that the atheist doesn't think, and proves the Bible right when it says that the fool has said in his heart that there is no God.

"All you have to do is present unbiased facts about the unscientific and unthinking nature of atheistic evolution, and then watch people change their minds."

'Special condemnation'

As WND reported, Comfort offered $20,000 to Dawkins to debate him on BBC radio, but the British scientist has not responded.

Comfort noted, however, Dawkins has offered his estimation of him, which graces the cover of "Nothing Created Everything."

"[Ray Comfort] is an ignorant fool," Dawkins said.

"He gave me a special condemnation for my book," Comfort remarked, "which is delightful."


Ray Comfort

But Comfort said his ultimate concern is for Dawkins' soul.

"Now that he's in his 60s, it won't be long until he goes to meet his maker," Comfort said. "And I want him to think deeply before he passes into eternity, because he is of worth to God and to me."

Comfort dedicated his new book to the famous atheist: "To Richard Dawkins, in the sincere hope that he looks beyond the hypocrisy of organized religion, before he goes to meet his maker."

Among the venues in which Comfort has debated atheism are Yale University, BBC radio, a conference of the group American Atheists and ABC's "Nightline." He has authored some 60 other books, including "God Doesn't Believe in Atheists," "How to Know God Exists" and "Evolution: the Fairy Tale for Grownups."

His previous book on the subject, "You Can Lead an Atheist to Evidence but You Can't Make Him Think," jumped ahead of Dawkins' "The God Delusion" on Amazon.com's list of bestsellers on atheism when it was released.

Comfort contends many atheists, including Dawkins, engage in a "reverse idolatry."

"Instead of taking nice things and creating a congenial god, they make a repulsive god," he explained.

Dawkins, Comfort said, goes through the Old Testament and picks out the harsh judgments of God "and makes an idol that's repulsive."

"But the problem is the god that Richard Dawkins doesn't believe in, doesn't exist," Comfort said. "He's a figment of his imagination."

The God of the Bible, Comfort contends, "is the God of righteousness and holiness and justice and truth and love and mercy. And he's taken the time to write his law upon their hearts in the form of a conscience."

Comfort says that while the intellectual appeal to atheists is important, the argument must move away from the intellect, "the place of hostility," and to the conscience, "the place of knowledge of right and wrong."

He points out the word conscience literally means "with knowledge."

"That's what Jesus did when he spoke to people about the kingdom of God," Comfort said. "He addressed their conscience by going through the commandments. That's what Paul did; that's what we have to do if we want to be effective."

Comfort said he's seen many dialogues with atheists move from the intellect to the conscience.

"We've got on video atheists changing their minds within one minute of talking to them," he said.

Creation proves there's a creator," Comfort argues. "And once you've established that, the fact is that every single human being is without excuse."

He contends that while many atheists and agnostics assert religious believers abandon science and reason, defenders of Darwinian evolutionary theory actually must have a "childlike faith" to accept its tenets.

Comfort said "time is the god of evolutionists," who believe that with enough time anything can happen.

"Time performs miracles. Time is the creator," he said.

"You can say to them, 'OK, there's nothing in your garage, could you believe in 10,000 years a Mercedes would evolve out of nothing? You'd say, No, that's ridiculous.' 'So, what about 100,000 years?' 'No, that's stupid.' But if you start talking billions of years, they'll suddenly go glaze-eyed and, 'Yeah, I could believe that, a Mercedes could evolve out of nothing over billions of year.' So time is their miracle worker."
[link to www.wnd.com]
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:51 PM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Just because people don't believe in the Christian god and the bible that is the base of your religious belief doesn't mean they don't believe in something.

It just the Christian god that doesn't pass the test.
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:54 PM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Just because people don't believe in the Christian god and the bible that is the base of your religious belief doesn't mean they don't believe in something.

It just the Christian god that doesn't pass the test.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775589

Exactly!
Anonymous Coward
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09/20/2009 11:56 PM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
what about; nothing was created, because it always existed?
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 12:22 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
What's the use any answer won't make any difference We need the "TOTH" that will cut through the crap
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 03:15 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
bump hf
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 03:17 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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09/21/2009 09:06 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 772791

That would include their religion!
Anonymous Coward
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Finland
09/21/2009 09:17 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
dinosaurs. eggs.
SheldonCooper
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09/21/2009 09:20 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag

That would include their religion!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 740244


We don't have to call ourselves anything, religion is pointless and as shown by the OP it lacks rationality in their sad attempt to 'debunk atheism'. Just remember your 'God' didn't have a creator so came from nowhere also.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 09:23 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag

That would include their religion!


We don't have to call ourselves anything, religion is pointless and as shown by the OP it lacks rationality in their sad attempt to 'debunk atheism'. Just remember your 'God' didn't have a creator so came from nowhere also.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper 773110

The fact you call yourself an atheist makes you part of an organised religion :)
SheldonCooper
User ID: 773110
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09/21/2009 09:26 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag

That would include their religion!


We don't have to call ourselves anything, religion is pointless and as shown by the OP it lacks rationality in their sad attempt to 'debunk atheism'. Just remember your 'God' didn't have a creator so came from nowhere also.

The fact you call yourself an atheist makes you part of an organised religion :)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690159


No it doesn't. Religious people tend to have the least idea of what constitutes a religion. About as smart as the people who wrote 'Jedi' on the last concensus thinking that would make it a religion.
Anon (OP)
User ID: 740244
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09/21/2009 09:28 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheism violates Newton's law of thermal dynamics. Nothing evolves up from nothing.
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 09:31 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag

That would include their religion!


We don't have to call ourselves anything, religion is pointless and as shown by the OP it lacks rationality in their sad attempt to 'debunk atheism'. Just remember your 'God' didn't have a creator so came from nowhere also.

The fact you call yourself an atheist makes you part of an organised religion :)


No it doesn't. Religious people tend to have the least idea of what constitutes a religion. About as smart as the people who wrote 'Jedi' on the last concensus thinking that would make it a religion.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper 773110

But you all believe/don't believe the exact same things you know. that's not organised?
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 09:31 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
God of the Gaps OP.

The argument is based on regressing the universe until we are forced at some point to say "I don't know" then you say "that's God."

What will you do when our knowledge expands (as it inevitably will) and we recognize the reality of multiple universes and easily extrapolate the origin of this one?

Then you'll say, "what is outside those universes and what created that which contains them", we are forced again to say "I don't know", then once again you say "it's God".

Once upon a time somebody asked "what is the sun" the answer was at that time unknown, so they said "it must be God".

As the torch of knowledge illuminates more and more of the cosmos beyond our tiny planet, your God has fewer and fewer shadows you can hide him in.

One day, maybe not within our lifetimes, maybe not for a 1000 years we will have illuminated every dark corner of the universe, and God will still not be found.
SheldonCooper
User ID: 773110
United Kingdom
09/21/2009 09:53 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheists need to switch to calling themselves anti-religion. Then there would be no arguments or debates because all religions are
bsflag

That would include their religion!


We don't have to call ourselves anything, religion is pointless and as shown by the OP it lacks rationality in their sad attempt to 'debunk atheism'. Just remember your 'God' didn't have a creator so came from nowhere also.

The fact you call yourself an atheist makes you part of an organised religion :)


No it doesn't. Religious people tend to have the least idea of what constitutes a religion. About as smart as the people who wrote 'Jedi' on the last concensus thinking that would make it a religion.

But you all believe/don't believe the exact same things you know. that's not organised?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 690159


Pretty weak response. A religion constitutes more than a group of people believing/not believeing the same thing. Not all 'atheists' believe/dont believe the same thing or in the same way. There is no set 'atheist' narrative or discourse. There is no set 'atheist' practice, can't even get tax exemption.
SheldonCooper
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09/21/2009 09:54 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Atheism violates Newton's law of thermal dynamics. Nothing evolves up from nothing.
 Quoting: Anon 740244


and what did your god evolve from?
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 09:58 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
worship cryst and go to the weeping wall if you will.

or go do some excersize to the ol black block if that´s your thing.

but keep that shit out of the government and schools.

no place for primitive hobbies there. if you ask me.
Anonymous Coward
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Hungary
09/21/2009 09:59 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
worship cryst and go to the weeping wall if you will.

or go do some excersize to the ol black block if that´s your thing.

but keep that shit out of the government and schools.

no place for primitive hobbies there. if you ask me.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 609027


amen! :D
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 10:04 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
God of the Gaps OP.

The argument is based on regressing the universe until we are forced at some point to say "I don't know" then you say "that's God."

What will you do when our knowledge expands (as it inevitably will) and we recognize the reality of multiple universes and easily extrapolate the origin of this one?

Then you'll say, "what is outside those universes and what created that which contains them", we are forced again to say "I don't know", then once again you say "it's God".

Once upon a time somebody asked "what is the sun" the answer was at that time unknown, so they said "it must be God".

As the torch of knowledge illuminates more and more of the cosmos beyond our tiny planet, your God has fewer and fewer shadows you can hide him in.

One day, maybe not within our lifetimes, maybe not for a 1000 years we will have illuminated every dark corner of the universe, and God will still not be found.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 774308


WOW! Did you actually write that? Nice!
Anonymous Coward
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09/21/2009 10:05 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
A religion constitutes more than a group of people believing/not believeing the same thing. Not all 'atheists' believe/dont believe the same thing or in the same way. There is no set 'atheist' narrative or discourse. There is no set 'atheist' practice, can't even get tax exemption.
 Quoting: SheldonCooper 773110


Exactly.
From now on, whenever a believer calls atheism a religion, respond with "where's our tax exemption?"
Bugeater

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09/21/2009 10:06 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
Just because people don't believe in the Christian god and the bible that is the base of your religious belief doesn't mean they don't believe in something.

It just the Christian god that doesn't pass the test.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775589


You don't understand God if this is truly what you think.
Bugeater

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09/21/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
A religion constitutes more than a group of people believing/not believeing the same thing. Not all 'atheists' believe/dont believe the same thing or in the same way. There is no set 'atheist' narrative or discourse. There is no set 'atheist' practice, can't even get tax exemption.


Exactly.
From now on, whenever a believer calls atheism a religion, respond with "where's our tax exemption?"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 774308



Good luck with this silliness.
Witness_

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09/21/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
It amazes me how the religious nutters will stoop to all sorts of deceit and cheap tricks to try and peddle their trash.

Just amazing.

And then they think that their actions are "holy".

Irony needs intelligence to understand it, I guess.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 609027
Finland
09/21/2009 10:08 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
worship cryst and go to the weeping wall if you will.

or go do some excersize to the ol black block if that´s your thing.

but keep that shit out of the government and schools.

no place for primitive hobbies there. if you ask me.


amen! :D
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 775525

cheers


and you can forget the freaky hindu superhero cartoons aswell.
Bugeater

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09/21/2009 10:09 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
I would bet 90% or more "atheists" are actually just lazy and don't want to investigate the bible for themselves, in other words, they're destroyed for a lack of knowledge.
Witness_

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09/21/2009 10:09 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
You don't understand God if this is truly what you think.
 Quoting: Bugeater



Ah! A man who has invisible friends.
Bugeater

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09/21/2009 10:10 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
It amazes me how the religious nutters will stoop to all sorts of deceit and cheap tricks to try and peddle their trash.

Just amazing.

And then they think that their actions are "holy".

Irony needs intelligence to understand it, I guess.
 Quoting: Witness_



LOL, because people are not perfect you're willing to give up a chance at salvation? Don't presume to be intelligent, you are not the judge.
Witness_

User ID: 735641
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09/21/2009 10:11 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
I would bet 90% or more "atheists" are actually just lazy and don't want to investigate the bible for themselves, in other words, they're destroyed for a lack of knowledge.
 Quoting: Bugeater


How much money?

Go on, put real money on the table.

I know the Bible way better than you, for sure. How many times have you read it cover to cover?

Heh heh.

Your arrogance is astounding, but that's the nature of the religious. Arrogance matches only by ignorance.

'cmon let's see your money.
Bugeater

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09/21/2009 10:11 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
You don't understand God if this is truly what you think.



Ah! A man who has invisible friends.
 Quoting: Witness_



Ah, God is more real than you growing out of a rock.
SheldonCooper
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09/21/2009 10:12 AM
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Re: A surefire way to debunk atheism?
I would bet 90% or more "atheists" are actually just lazy and don't want to investigate the bible for themselves, in other words, they're destroyed for a lack of knowledge.
 Quoting: Bugeater


Surely you mean 90% of 'god' believers haven't studied the bible or dared to question the things they were told to believe. Believing without solid proof is a lack of knowledge. Rational thinking is behind most 'atheists' which is far from a lack of knowledge. Which version of the bible would you have people study? they are all 'the word of god' yet there are so many differences.