What are your objections to Christianity?

The god of the Bible isn't good enough to be God. My parents raised me to be a better being than bible-god, so what's the point in having a god you can't even look up to.


Interesting thoughts. How do you define good? And what makes you say that the God of the Bible isn't good?

Thanks!

All Christian Bible Thumpers on this forum are SHILLS employed to create division and tension between Christian followers and those who follow their own way. True Christians teach by LIVING their an example but do not force feed antiquated and ridiculous doctrine to the intelligent masses here on GLP.

I have nothing against Christians as long as they keep their ideas to themselves. Hell I used to be one, until I studied and educated myself out of it.

For the true seekers, the fallacies of Christianity become quite obvious, but it's a great religion for those who don't really wanna think for themself and just want some pre-packaged version of what somebody else decided was right for you.

Everyone has their own moral compass, their own ideals of what is good and bad. If you even have to ask, then we are on completely different pages about what is right and wrong and even if I explained it, you would merely say, so what's wrong with God doing that, or that? Which is the main reason there is still so much evil in the world, because the God that people believe in to pattern themselves after, is so flawed.

Well, many valid arguments were stated here in this thread.

I spent my life bouncing from religion to religion trying to find somewhere that felt right.

Then one day, a question came to me that finally pushed me over the dividing line between theism and atheism:

If I had been born in the middle east, I'd be Muslim. If I were born in India, I'd be Hindu. If I were born in the orient, I'd be Buddist. This made me ask myself, "What does the geographical location of my birth have to do with my belief system? (Other than tradition and indoctrination, that is)"

I know that many will balk at this statement because they're so deeply conditioned to believe that their beliefs were a personal choice. But when you consider that most religions (especially the Abrahamic religions: The monotheistic faiths of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam) are virtually interchangeable it forces you to realize, you are a "Christian" (at least in most cases, of course not all cases) either because your parents were and indoctrinated you with these beliefs while you were in your formative years or the peer pressure of "most" being Christian around you made you feel isolated and you adopted their beliefs to fit in and belong to the group. (Again, there are exceptions ... like all things.)

With all that said, if you're wanting something that's not dealing with such abstracts: My biggest objection has less to do with Christianity than the double standards I'm forced to deal with on a near daily basis.

For example:
1) Any time I sneeze, someone casts a blessing from their God at me. (Possibly more traditional or a cliche than an actual blessing.)
2) At least 1 out of 10 times I go to the store or similar, someone tells me to have a blessed day.
3) More than half the times I go out to enjoy a rock concert, someone is in the parking lot handing me a "Have you met Jesus?" flier or placing one under my windshield wiper.

Each of these things are really no big deal to me (well, maybe the constant need to try to convert me to their cult is an issue for me, but I'm willing to live and let live.) but at work or when in a place other than my own home if I so much as say the word "Atheist" someone must always interrupt me stating in a near panic, "No! We do not discuss religion!" When that same person was just going on and on about how wonderful their church is or how God blessed them here or there or constantly praising Jesus for some random item.

It's primarily this double standard that irritates me.

In closing, I don't think that most Christians realize that the reason most "new atheists" try to debate the existence of God so fiercely is not that they're trying to take away someone's faith, but it's more like a revenge they're compelled to act upon due to a lifetime of being subjected to a constant barrage of, "Have you found Jesus?", "Have you been saved?", "You should come to my church!" and my personal favorite, "You're going to be subjected to eternal torture because my God loves you!"

I make it a personal policy to not debate the existence of God with believers simply because it's like arguing with a 4 year old about why their favorite cartoon is make believe.

It's simply pointless.

I am not saying they are all like this...


But when a Christian does something good, they are doing it only because they think Jesus WANTS them to do it.

Okay, fine.

But as a person sensitive to energy, I have had Christian people be so freakin' nice to me because they really feel that is what Jesus wants. But on an energetic level they are sending daggers at me and looking down on me with an undeserved sense of self-righteousness. It just isn't honest.

Exactly!!!!!! Loving isn't something you do because somebody told you to, or because you want to please somebody, (Jesus). If love doesn't come from the heart, then there is no love!!!

that they believe they are the only ones who are right.

I have nothing against Christians as long as they keep their ideas to themselves. Hell I used to be one, until I studied and educated myself out of it.

For the true seekers, the fallacies of Christianity become quite obvious, but it's a great religion for those who don't really wanna think for themself and just want some pre-packaged version of what somebody else decided was right for you.

Exactly!!!!!! Loving isn't something you do because somebody told you to, or because you want to please somebody, (Jesus). If love doesn't come from the heart, then there is no love!!!


Good point. The Bible couldn't agree with you more - love must come from the heart. However, the question is how does one's heart change in order to bring forth love? And how does one define love?

God is the creator of everything, therefore He defines love. All love, in order to be true love must be focused back at the creator in some way. Our love for our brothers must be ultimately an expression of God's love which dwells in our hearts.

I John is a good place to go if you want to understand this from a Christian perspective. I John 3:16 tells us "this is how we know what love is, Jesus Christ laid down his life for us, and we ought to lay down our lives for the brothers." That is the definition of love from the Bible.

I'm curious how you would define love. :)

I respect your viewpoints and I'm deeply sorry for people who have treated you in an un-Christian manner under the guise of being a Christian. This contradicts what is clearly taught in Scripture.

You do make a good point about where we are raised - most people accept the faith of their parents.

However, if we both agree that truth can be found, then we can determine whether or not a religion is based upon historical fact or is merely the construction of a group of people to try to control another group.

So do you think we can engage in some discussion about the facts? I know tha tyou don't like to debate Christians because we are often morons (and that is true). :) However, I promise I'll do my best to discuss with you just the philosophical and historical sides, etc, rather than the emotional side.

Let me know if you want to engage in some discussion. :)

So true! Here's a man who converted from Christian to Islam. From one false belief system to another. But I would encourage ALL who claim to be "Christian", to honestly ponder the reasons Dr. Dirks left Christianity. Same reason I don't follow any established cult. (religion) Would like your response about what Dr. Dirks says.



[link to www.youtube.com]

So true! Here's a man who converted from Christian to Islam. From one false belief system to another. But I would encourage ALL who claim to be "Christian", to honestly ponder the reasons Dr. Dirks left Christianity. Same reason I don't follow any established cult. (religion) Would like your response about what Dr. Dirks says.



[link to www.youtube.com]


I would love to respond to any objections. I watched the video and I found it very interesting.

Dr. Dirks presents three basic objections that I saw:
1. By studying the earliest texts of the Bible one can see massive corruptions that bring into question even the most basic doctrines of the Christian faith.
2. Modern Christianity has followed the path of the apostle Paul, who corrupted Christianity from what the original twelve apostles intended.
3. Christians can't even explain the doctrine of the trinity.

1. This is a common argument that is made against he reliability of Scripture. I would be curious to know what texts he is referring to. The Bible has more texts than any ancient document and is incredibly well-supported. The methods used by the scribes to copy the texts result in such a small number of errors that it is quite extraordinary.

Dr. Dirks also did not address the most important archaeological find of the last hundred years, if not ever - the Dead Sea Scrolls. In this massive collection of scrolls dating back to the first century B.C. archaeologists found some of the oldest biblical texts ever, including portions of every book of the Old Testament except one. Before the discovery of these scrolls, the oldest extant manuscripts dated from about 1000 A.D. Experts had been calling the biblical text into question because of the lack of ancient manuscripts. However, the discovery of the Dead Sea Scrolls shattered their arguments against the reliability of the Old Testament by showing that there were virutally no errors between the texts, even though there was a spread of 1,000 years between them.

As for the New Testament, we have manuscripts that date to the time of the original authors. No book has ever been so well-supported archaeologically and historically as the Bible. Ever.

2. This is a common argument from Muslims who want to claim that Jesus was just a prophet. There are many things that Dr. Dirks is overlooking when he makes this comment. First, he is overlooking the fact that the rest of the books in the New Testament, most of which were written by one of the twelve apostles, confirm the writings of Paul. The historical book of Acts speaks of the encounters between Paul and the Jerusalem counsel and shows that they listened to Paul in many areas. II Peter 3:15 shows that Peter himself supported the writings of Paul as Scripture.

Also, he ignores the words of Jesus himself, as recorded by the apostles and their counterparts. Jesus obviously claimed that he was the Son of God and therefore more than human.

Also, he ignores the Old Testament scriptures (extant texts which date before the time of Christ) which prophesy his coming in many ways. For example, being born of a virgin (Isaiah 9), being crucified for the sins of his people (Isaiah 53), being pierced (Zecharaih 12:10), among many, many others.

3. As far as Christians not being able to fully explain the doctrine of the trinity, one must admit that this is a difficulty. The Bible clearly shows that God is three persons, although he is one. This can be explained to a degree, but I don't think it will ever be fully nailed down. However, it is understandable that there will be some things about the God of the universe which we can't fully explain, such as his omnipotence or his omnipresence. :)

Good arguments. Let me know what you think about my responses.

It's great to discuss these things with someone who is so respectful. :)

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I'm curious to know your reasons for that.

Let me know your thoughts. :)

-Brandon

Christians believe that the world was created in six days, and that we are only 4000 years old.

That's not accurate. Thousands of Christians don't believe what you posted. It's not fair to paint people with such a broad brush like that.

Pleasure talking to you too. :)

I live without it...it's possible...but you've got to have some real balls to do it...to accept that you are entirely on your own...everything I do and obtain is my doing and my responsibility is very liberating.

It takes balls to face the truth, the truth of how lost you are and the truth of how God has the right to judge you because of how you've fallen short. The amazing thing is that through Jesus Christ we actually have answers to the way the world is.

If you don't accept that there may be some holes in the book that you subscribe to, specifically relating to creation of you, me and the earth...I can't really continue this line of conversation with you. If you believe the world is 4000 years old...I say good luck to you.

I should say a few more things about the modern view of the age of the earth. There is a natural assumption behind these views which cannot be supported and it's called "uniformitarianism". Why do you believe that everything has always been going the same way? Can you support or prove that? If you could prove that, then the evidence might support your belief, but the problem is that your assumption is groundless. Therefore you can't even interpret what you see in nature.

With respect to the rest, evidence concerning other historical figures around the same time of your Jesus is very well documented...the evidence surrounding Jesus Christ is very poor to say the least. Without the New Testament...The Jesus Story wouldn't even be a footnote on history.

I'd like to hear what historical figure from that time has more texts and more differing sources that support his existence. But you won't find any. :) Like I said, he is supported by contemporary non-Christian writers. And you can't deny the historical reliability of the New Testament. It is heavily supported and nothing in it has been denied. Can you give me something in it that is false? If you can't, we should assume that it is the truth because everything verifiable in it is true. Simple logic. :)

My opinions on Paul are subjective...and always will be. I just don't like the guy...and everything that i've read about Paul, confirms what the Christian Church stands for in my eyes.

Yeah, Paul was an amazing figure and he's someone who's hard to deal with if you don't believe in Christianity. How did this radical change of life come about?? That's something that only seems answerable through a supernatural change.

Thanks for your honesty. :)

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I'm curious to know your reasons for that.

Let me know your thoughts. :)

-Brandon

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I'm curious to know your reasons for that.

Let me know your thoughts. :)

-Brandon

No one has explained to me why it is important.

If you don't believe in the God of the Bible, I'm curious to know your reasons for that.

Let me know your thoughts. :)

-Brandon

No one has explained to me why it is important.

ALL the supernatural stuff is obvious bullshit, and once that is gone the rest is just a lot of confused philosophy.

God is not synonymous with nature - God created nature.