What are your objections to Christianity?

Scoot.

No.

I'm telling you everything happens for a reason and that reason must be good. Or are you telling me God lets bad things happen without good reason?

Perhaps bad things are tests to help us evolve? That would be good wouldn't it?

It happened for a reason? Who's reason is that? Are you now inferring that a conscious being is determiining what happens on earth? Where did you get this belief from?

Does it have to be someone's reason? I am using the word "reason" to denote logic and when I say reason I am talking about after the fact. Not reasoning before hand. Not a reason for doing something but the reason it was done.

I guess maybe I think kinda backwards relative to everyone else and am misunderstood because of it.

Just checking into this thread.


OP has a very gentle and tolerant nature which serves him well and he speaks sincerely from the center of who he is and what he feels is true - but as we are all heir to - we are at places of being or consciousness (awareness) and as such, we gravitate to certain levels of understanding that help us to relate to our lives, to our world and to those around us.


This is a 3D world and necessarily referential in nature - and so we use all that is around us, including "knowledge" to determine our position in life and relative to the cosmos - and verily unto one another. It's how we distinguish and discern who we are, where we are, where we wish to go and how to get there in mind, body or spirit.


But as younger souls are more heir to do, they do not account for the fact that the underlying status of themselves as the "knower" can and will change and evolve, albeit over many hundreds of incarnations - and thus- what they hold as relatively true today may indeed be of no use to them a hundred lifetimes from now as their position in consciousness changes. And so they become very resolute "believers" in what they hold as true and cannot even imagine NOT believing as they do, at least in this lifetime - especially when their knowledge set seems so airtight and complete - promising them safe haven in the next life - which they assume is their last.


But as this forum is testament to, we are a one-room classroom with all ages of souls and levels of consciousness and being - which makes it confusing for younger souls and even leading them to contentiousness in defending their positions when they feel they are under attack - and thus, it becomes all but impossible to impart to them what might be considered "higher" truth, wisdom or perspective based upon a higher vantage point that those of older soul age can offer. Having said this, I could flatly tell the OP that all that he posits is wrong and doesn't even exist - that it is mythology run amuck - and his only reaction has to be one of incredulity and subsequently rendering me as a lesser knower or lesser consciousness. So be it. But the real opportunity in forums such as this is to rub shoulders with souls that are far down the road from you and glean much wisdom.



The sad reality though, is that young souls cannot intuit when they are in the presence of an older soul for they base all their discernment upon whether or not the other agrees with them or not. Religion is spiritual quicksand. You only sink down until and unless you can break free. But you can't break free until you realize you are sinking down. And that takes an expanded point of reference that young souls do not normally possess.


You will continue on this path, OP as you feel it serves you, but it leads nowhere real. Reality is found in life and the first axiom of life is that all is life and that life always continues. There is no stopping point or penalty or reward system, etc, which is what I assume is what you believe. It is wrong. The sooner you intuit this, the sooner you can begin to see clearly and to grow accordingly.

Shalom

close... but let's quote it exactly...

"I like your Christ, I do not like your Christians. Your Christians are so unlike your Christ.” - Mahatma Gandhi

Well lets see. If you sin and do bad things, you will be sent to the bad place to burn forever and be tortured forever and ever to burn in a lake of fire for eternity...



but... Jesus LOVES you!

Why would he do that?

Christianity as a belief is not the issue. It's the people who force it down your throats and convert the whole world into their system:

-the "bow down to Christianity or burn forever in hell" philosophy.
-their monopoly on "salvation"; there is no other way to be saved than thru Christianity
-their self-righteous, "better than thou" attitude; all other ideas that are not in the "Bible" are wrong and immoral.
-their assault against logical reasoning and science (creationism)

Because Yehweh is an imposter god.You can read the Sumerian tablets to find that out.You can also read the Gnostic writings from the Dead sea scrolls to see that Yehweh is not the highest pulsation rate in the Universe of any frequency.Yehweh is very human like with his vindictive ways.He's worst then Hitler ever was.
To my calculations he killed over 33 million people.Also
his name really wasn't Yehweh he went by many different names.

Most Christians are in error because a lot of the bible is forged and they still think its the word of God.If you look up sin In Greek the word sin means to miss the mark.The bible speaks of all beings having been born in sin and of having come short of the glory of God.All entities who are born into the physical must be natural law,be polarized or out of balence with the ultimate harmony of the non-polarized universe in order to acheive physical embodiment.This then is the meaning of sin or of missing the mark of total Universal Consciousness.Becoming less polarized .There is no need to be ashamed or feel guilty for having been born in the flesh and out of spirit as many preachers might suggest.Though if one enjoys such guilt one may indulge in the guilt of having been born.But it only adds to the imbalence of the soul.

Many think they understand the bible because they can quote passages and words.But to often they miss the true meaning because they worship the superficial names and words instead of their deeper sometimes hidden or symbolic meanings.

Last Edited by danhow on 09/27/2009 01:11 AM

The Bible has been a very effective tool used to keep mankind in fear and enslaved. You can just see the knee-jerk shock reactions of some people when you question some ideas in the Bible. Its so comforting to know that a lot more people are waking up from this nonsense!!!

the doctrine of hell

Yes it has been a very effective tool for enslaving mankind.I hope more people will wake up to this also.
Yea through fear many people won't question the bible because it has been programmed in them that they will go to hell if they question it.So from that one fact people won't question it and remain in the dark.

Maybe because King fucking James the pedophile bastardized your bible.

Maybe it's because much of the bible was written by luciferian elite.

Maybe because an external GOD is by definition SATANIC, and the christian bible and it's Jehovah and Yahweh shit are just toxic thought forms to control the masses.

I don't need a bible or external authority to perceive and communicate with the true self which is God.

Good clarification. I would still say that God is not synonymous to the natural order. There is the way that God made things originally and that has been corrupted - this means that the "natural" order now has its end in death. This is not how God created things to be.

christians

Another great clarification.

According to the Bible, everything bad that happened is not good, but is being redeemed through what Jesus did on the cross to accomplish God's purposes. So I think we're pretty close on this, but probably don't get to his point in the same way. But I don't know if I've gotten how you get there yet.

Where do you get the idea of logic from? How do you know that things can be determined from logic? Are there universal laws of logic?

In order for something to have a "reason it was done" there has to be an intention behind it. Intention can come only from being. Rocks can't plan things out - rocks aren't intentional - they just sit. Only an intelligent being can have an intent to do something for a reason. I hope that makes sense. :)

Very well said AC 117166. There are many who share these thoughts you've mentioned-for myself it resinates to the core of my being.
Brandon, you truely are doing what you believe to be true. I would just ask that you never stop searching for truth, don't allow yourself to stagnate in one belief system, because searching out the other side will either solidify what you already believe or broaden your horizons. Its a win-win either way. Love ya bro!

This is all very interesting! If we are searching for the truth we need to search for it inside of reality - inside of what is tangible and solid. Can you give me any evidence for what you believe? Is there somewhere that you get this idea of reincarnation from or is it just something that you think? Do you have a basis for your beliefs? This is crucial in the search for truth.

Thanks!

Because since said person decided to reject the free gift of salvation that Christ offers us and chose to live a life that demonstrated that rejection of their Creator, God must punish them. If He were to allow any and every sinful person without question regardless of the wrongs they had committed, He would not be just and would therefore not be supreme. Also, Hebrews 12:6 says, "For the Lord disciplines the one he loves, and chastises every son whom he receives." I'm sure that your parents punished you for doing something wrong when you were a kid. They did that because they loved you and wanted what was best for you. The same is true about God. It's because He loves us so much that He wants us to do what is best for us, and what's best for us is to stay away from sin as best as we can. Just because He lets people deny Him and sends them to hell does not mean He does not love them. In fact, it's because He loves them that He does that.

I hope that answers your question. :)

Interesting thoughts. I think that what you have said here express the views of many people. :)

What parts of the Bible is forged? Did you know that we have manuscripts dating extremely close to the times of the original writings that verify the Bible? Did you know that we have different manuscript families which can help to show us that the Bible is very accurate because of the miniscule amount of errors in it?

A lot of what you said makes no sense to me - such as the polarized and non-polarized part. I don't know what you're trying to say there - could you clarify?

As far as guilt is concerned, like you said the Bible says that because of our state of sin we cannot come near to the holy God in whom all life exists. That's a major problem because the only alternative for people who have rebelled against him (and sin doesn't just mean missing the mark - this is a common misunderstanding) is to face the consequences of sin - death. Therefore there is a real guilt upon our heads.

Thankfully, God has provided the answer to our guilt in the death of his Son Jesus Christ. Jesus came and he took the punishment that we deserved so that now when God looks upon us sinners he instead sees his beautiful and perfect Son's life. Therefore he loves us as his own Son.

Don't flee from guilt - understand it and see how God has overcome it. Embrace that. :)

Very common objection and one that as a Christian I am deeply apologetic for. Many of those who claim the name of Christ show that they do not belong to him through their actions (I John 3:10). And many of us who truly do love Christ fall short at different times in terrible ways of what we have been called to by his precious blood.

However, I'd like to ask you a question. If someone dressed themself up in your clothes and went out and murdered someone, would it be fair for you to be judged for that murder? The person was dressed like you - maybe they even acted like you and the said that they were you. However, each individual should be judged by his own actions, right?
(I hope that analogy isn't just confusing :) )

What I'm trying to say is this: yes, many Christians have fallen short. But please look into the Bible and look to see who Christ is. Christ did not support those kinds of wicked actions by people - in fact, he condemned them. And many of those who claim to be his will be shown as false in the end (Matthew 7:21-23).

Please look and see who Christ really is. The truth will set you free. :)

How do you mean?

Thanks a lot man! I really do appreciate the encouragement. :)

I hope I can give you some encouragement too and maybe even some wisdom (not that I have any wisdom myself, but the source of all wisdom is the Bible).

There is truth and untruth. If any other religion is true, the Bible is not true. The Bible claims to be completely true, so if the Christian faith is not exclusive, then none of the Bible is true - it would all be built on lies.

However, if the Bible is true, every other religion is a false system that is actually leading away from the true God. This is why the question must be answered, and it can't be answered by what I think or what I feel, but it must be answered by find out what God says about himself and about us. :)

Thanks man!

Not tonight boys.

If you do a side to side Comparison of todays bible and the
Sinai bible you will find many differeces.
And some familiar — very important — passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said….
[link to pithycabbages.blogspot.com]



The story of Jesus the Christ as being a passion play played out in secret schools during the time of the Essene era. The entity, Jesus, did act out this passion play in real life. This story goes back approximately 12.000 years prior to present time. This is an ancient story, representing the ego of the individual, whereby the entity, Jesus, represents the individual, represents every entity who seeks to move in spiritual directions

Last Edited by danhow on 09/27/2009 02:17 AM

Discovered in a monastery in the Sinai desert in Egypt more than 160 years ago, the handwritten Codex Sinaiticus includes two books that are not part of the official New Testament and at least seven books that are not in the Old Testament.

The New Testament books are in a different order, and include numerous handwritten corrections — some made as much as 800 years after the texts were written, according to scholars who worked on the project of putting the Bible online. The changes range from the alteration of a single letter to the insertion of whole sentences.

And some familiar — very important — passages are missing, including verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus, they said….

The Codex also includes much of the Old Testament that was adopted by early Greek-speaking Christians.

That portion includes books not found in the Hebrew Bible and regarded in the Protestant tradition as apocryphal, such as 2 Esdras, Tobit, Judith, 1 & 4 Maccabees, Wisdom and Sirach.

The New Testament portion includes the Epistle of Barnabas and The Shepherd of Hermas.



This is obvious proof that the Bible, as we now it, as been edited many, many times over it’s long and mysterious history. But I find that part about this version of the Bible missing verses dealing with the resurrection of Jesus most interesting. Isn’t that the foundation upon which modern Christianity is built? If that part of the equation is removed, what does modern Christianity even mean?

My answer is that the Bible is part ancient history, written by a people who had little or no scientific knowledge by which unusual events could be explained. It is also part mythology, handed down (at first verbally and then in text), on par with ancient Roman, Greek, Eqyptian and Norse mythologies that were sustained for many centuries before eventually dying out.

If the original Bible did not include such a cornerstone of modern Christianity like the resurrection, then the obvious conclusion is that it was added much later. I believe that conclusion is rather staggering, if any Christians would truly stop and seriously consider the ramifications of the existence of this Bible for more than a moment.

I would be willing to bet that not more than 1 in 10 people in the U.S. who profess a belief in God and Jesus even know about the existence of the Codex Sinaiticus
[link to pithycabbages.blogspot.com]

Did you expect it to stay the same forever? and what is death but change? The soul is eternal so in a sense we are all immortal.

Do you think God did not realize the inevitability of his creation becoming something else? Perhaps it must in order return to how it was before? Maybe it is only our perception or relationship to him that has changed?

[link to www.bibliotecapleyades.net]

Modern-day versions of the Gospel of Luke have a staggering 10,000 more words than the same Gospel in the Sinai Bible. Six of those words say of Jesus "and was carried up into heaven", but this narrative does not appear in any of the oldest Gospels of Luke available today ("Three Early Doctrinal Modifications of the Text of the Gospels", F. C. Conybeare, The Hibbert Journal, London, vol. 1, no. 1, Oct 1902, pp. 96-113). Ancient versions do not verify modern-day accounts of an ascension of Jesus Christ, and this falsification clearly indicates an intention to deceive.


Today, the Gospel of Luke is the longest of the canonical Gospels because it now includes "The Great Insertion", an extraordinary 15th-century addition totaling around 8,500 words (Luke 9:51-18:14). The insertion of these forgeries into that Gospel bewilders modern Christian analysts, and of them the Church said:

"The character of these passages makes it dangerous to draw inferences"

(Catholic Encyclopedia, Pecci ed., vol. ii, p. 407).

Just as remarkable, the oldest Gospels of Luke omit all verses from 6:45 to 8:26, known in priesthood circles as "The Great Omission", a total of 1,547 words. In today's versions, that hole has been "plugged up" with passages plagiarized from other Gospels. Dr Tischendorf found that three paragraphs in newer versions of the Gospel of Luke's version of the Last Supper appeared in the 15th century, but the Church still passes its Gospels off as the unadulterated "word of God" ("Are Our Gospels Genuine or Not?", op. cit.)

Perhaps I should have said "reason it happened"?

And I found that often one's intent or reason for doing something is not always why it happens. Maybe I'm just operating on the flipside and seeing things differently.

Logic seems to be flawed in the world today I see people doing things for a reason much different then why it happens. maybe its because everyone is disconnected.

I know when I do things I often see the reason for doing it after the fact. I find anything I plan fails so I quite planning and try to act in the moment. Where is the logic in spontaneity? I have found much synchroncity being this way and yet much confusion and depression because everyone else is operating with a different rule set.

I learned something about the brain by putting 2 and 2 together many years ago. Mosty from watching science shows on TV about the latest research. One show was taking another look a the neural firing between the brain and muscles. It is well know that there is a signal delay but what the older studies neglected to do is look at the direction of the signal. They ASSUMED it was going from the brain to the muscles but in reality it was muscles sending a feedback signal to the brain! They found that the neurons in the brain associated with the muscle fire AFTER the nerve endings connected to the muscle. The brain in our head does not control our actions! It is a processor of input information. Why do you think most of our sensory organs are located on our head? To minmalize signal delay! If our brain in our head controlled our body would you not expect it to be located equidistant from our extremities? Let me ask you this... does it make sense that a chicken can run around with its head cut off? If it was merely reflexes it would be uncontrolled twitching.

Then I watched this other show about the 1billion + neurons that they discovered in the human gut. They were talking about it as if it was a new discovery but this "neural knot" has been observed in the body since at least the beginning of the last century. Another name for it that I have learned since then is the "Enteric brain". This is the brain that is responsible for the actual control of your body. <-Now this is me putting things together. I did not read this or learn from a TV show but it is the only thing that makes sense. This gut brain is only connected to the brain in your head by the vagus nerve. Otherwise it is it's own isolated neural net. Point being is that you don't move your arm because you think about moving it but rather you reason why you moved it after the fact. This is a reality that no one seems to be aware of.

I hope this clears things up as to my way of thinking and why what we think we're doing isn't always what we are actually doing. It seems to me that the whole world is living in a delusional matrix reality where we believe our actions are for the reasons we think they are.

So let me ask you this.. Does intent come from the gut? Is this not where the will chakra is located? If one is trully acting on one's intent do you think you will always know the reason for it before doing it? Or will you restrict what you do because it isn't logical at the time?

Last Edited by Opener of the Way on 09/27/2009 04:27 AM