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Women have a right to infanticide

 
Anonymous Coward
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10/26/2009 09:41 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
It's real and it's in the news. [link to www.nbcdfw.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/26/2009 09:49 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
sick.
Anonymous Coward
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10/26/2009 10:11 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Another one ! [link to www.theglobeandmail.com]
Anonymous Coward
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10/26/2009 10:18 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
i dont think OP believes what he is saying.. i think he is trying to make a point.



When Infanticide Isn't Murder
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Jessica Farrar may be the bravest politician in America.

In the wake of a series of highly-publicized killings of young children by Texas mothers suffering from post-partum mental disorders--most notably Andrea Yates, Dena Schlosser and Otty Sanchez--Farrar, a state representative from Houston, has introduced long overdue legislation that will recognize the mitigating circumstances surrounding such acts.

Under Farrar's bill, first introduced in March, women who kill their children within 12 months of childbirth would be allowed to offer testimony regarding their postpartum mental health during the sentencing phases of their trials. Should jurors conclude that a mother's "judgment was impaired as a result of the effects of giving birth or the effects of lactation following the birth," they would be permitted to convict her of the crime of infanticide.

Unlike murder, which is a capital offense in Texas, the felony of infanticide would carry a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment. While this bill may not go far enough to protect the welfare of these vulnerable and troubled parents, it is an essential first step toward post-partum justice.

The unique nature of infanticide by mentally impaired mothers has been recognized for much of human history, even if the medical data to buttress this understanding is of relatively recent origin. An estimated 10 percent of women suffer from severe depression or anxiety during pregnancy, and according to Postpartum Support International, up to 15 percent suffer from depression after giving birth. One or two women in one thousand will develop full-blown postpartum psychosis, a life-threatening disorder whose symptoms may include delusions, hallucinations and mania. Suicidal and homicidal thoughts are not infrequent. While the causes of this tragic disorder have not yet been fully unraveled, civilized nations across the globe have long recognized this phenomenon in their legal systems.




Read more at: [link to www.huffingtonpost.com]

Last Edited by SPUD on 05/29/2012 12:47 PM
Anonymous Coward
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10/26/2009 10:23 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
i dont think OP believes what he is saying.. i think he is trying to make a point.



When Infanticide Isn't Murder
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Jessica Farrar may be the bravest politician in America.

In the wake of a series of highly-publicized killings of young children by Texas mothers suffering from post-partum mental disorders--most notably Andrea Yates, Dena Schlosser and Otty Sanchez--Farrar, a state representative from Houston, has introduced long overdue legislation that will recognize the mitigating circumstances surrounding such acts.

Under Farrar's bill, first introduced in March, women who kill their children within 12 months of childbirth would be allowed to offer testimony regarding their postpartum mental health during the sentencing phases of their trials. Should jurors conclude that a mother's "judgment was impaired as a result of the effects of giving birth or the effects of lactation following the birth," they would be permitted to convict her of the crime of infanticide.

Unlike murder, which is a capital offense in Texas, the felony of infanticide would carry a maximum penalty of two years' imprisonment. While this bill may not go far enough to protect the welfare of these vulnerable and troubled parents, it is an essential first step toward post-partum justice.

The unique nature of infanticide by mentally impaired mothers has been recognized for much of human history, even if the medical data to buttress this understanding is of relatively recent origin. An estimated 10 percent of women suffer from severe depression or anxiety during pregnancy, and according to Postpartum Support International, up to 15 percent suffer from depression after giving birth. One or two women in one thousand will develop full-blown postpartum psychosis, a life-threatening disorder whose symptoms may include delusions, hallucinations and mania. Suicidal and homicidal thoughts are not infrequent. While the causes of this tragic disorder have not yet been fully unraveled, civilized nations across the globe have long recognized this phenomenon in their legal systems.

In Great Britain, the Infanticide Acts of 1922 and 1938 redefined such deaths as manslaughter. Imprisonment for these killings in the United Kingdom is now extremely rare. The disparity between British and American law flared in 1996, with the jailing of Caroline Beale, a British citizen, on charges of murdering her newborn in a New York City hotel room. Beale spent eight months jailed on Riker's Island and pleaded guilty to manslaughter before common sense finally prevailed and the troubled mother was allowed to receive psychiatric treatment in London.

Britain's approach is representative of our closest international allies. Canada recognizes infanticide as a distinct, lesser offense than homicide; offenders face a maximum of five years in prison. Twenty-seven other nations recognize the unique nature of maternal infanticide as a crime distinct from murder, a diverse group of nations that includes Australia, Brazil, Colombia, Germany, Greece, India, Italy, Japan, Norway, Sweden, the Philippines and Turkey. In making no legal distinction between troubled mothers who suffocate their children and professional assassins, the United States now stands as a glaring outlier among the enlightened democracies.

The reason that most advanced nations provide lesser penalties for infanticide than murder is that none of the traditional, widely-accepted justifications for punishment apply to these cases. Long prison sentences are highly unlikely to deter such acts, because these deaths are rarely plotted by rational or reflective minds. The vindication of the victim's survivors, frequently cited as a justification for draconian sentences for violent offenders, makes no sense when the closest survivors are the relatives of the perpetrator. More often than not, it is the deceased infant's father who pleads for his wife's freedom, and who suffers additional anguish as she is tried and imprisoned.

Even for those who believe in retribution, surely the loss of a child, and the ensuing guilt, must be punishment enough for any mother. Our penal system has long recognized that different varieties of killing entail distinct degrees of culpability. Some killings are not viewed as morally reprehensible at all: shooting an armed prowler, defending the nation in wartime. We treat vehicular homicide differently from acts of terrorism. Fatally injuring an opponent in a bar fight is a grave offense, but does not merit the same opprobrium as poisoning your grandmother for the insurance money. On a continuum of killings, maternal infanticide surely ranks with the most pardonable offenses.

So why is Representative Farrar's sponsorship so brave, if the law she has proposed reflects both international norms and evolving standards of decency? Needless to say, in the era of the partisan sound bite, extremists have tried to link this issue to the debate over abortion. Many have resorted to overt misinformation, such as right-wing blogger Cassy Fiano's widely disseminated and patently false claim that the bill "would decriminalize murdering an infant."

Some opponents would like to link this debate to the ongoing philosophical discussion surrounding the nature of personhood and to Princeton philosopher Peter Singer's controversial proposition that killing a newborn is not the same as killing a fully-developed human being. The reality is that--with the exception of certain medically-indicated cases, such as those infant deaths permitted under the Groningen Protocol in the Netherlands--our nation is not on track to legalize infanticide any time soon.

Even Representative Farrar finds it necessary to provide a lesser prison term for perpetrators of maternal infanticide, while I would prefer a sentence that embraced only psychological counseling and rehabilitation without incarceration. I would also rewrite the proposed law to include fathers, as sympathetic or vicarious postpartum mental disorders among men are extremely rare, but poorly studied, and it is only a matter of time before a male Andrea Yates or Dena Schlosser stumbles into the public eye.

A national infanticide statute is the sort of moderate, narrowly-tailored measure that should be able to unite people of good intentions. Such a law reflects both the rational Enlightenment ideals advocated by secular humanists and the fundamental Judeo-Christian principles of mercy and forgiveness. In a culture where calls for vengeance far too often drown out pleas for compassion, I am hopeful that Representative Farrar's wise initiative will be heard across our moral wilderness.


Read more at: [link to www.huffingtonpost.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 751567


You got it.
Follower of Jesus

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10/26/2009 10:27 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
I think this is the natural progression once abortion becomes an accepted practice.

This society is in love with death.

I think that is why we are being destroyed. God knows what evil lies in the hearts of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789658



Agreed. There is no difference between an abortion and infanticide....except a few weeks.

Oh how passionate we are to save the children but kill the baby.

I can't remember the last time my wife went to a fetus shower...? Abortion is murder.
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Rocket Man

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10/27/2009 10:32 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Any child under three (some say under five) for which women cannot take care of is eligible for infanticide.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783644


This is quite true. Most western women who kill their kids get sent to a psych ward & let out 2 years later because they were somehow a 'victim' of an evil husband....
Most men get the chair or lethal injection.
we are many
anonymous coward
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10/27/2009 10:44 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Any child under three (some say under five) for which women cannot take care of is eligible for infanticide.

From a progressive point of view, legalizing it would be the best way to achieve efficient population control.

It was common in the Greek classical age, when liberated advanced women could freely dispose of their children. It's time to return tho Thids Godlen Age of female freedom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783644



The best way to achieve efficient population control is sterilization.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 10:48 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Either ALL human life is to be protected or NONE of it is. It can't be both ways.

So if I feel a person is an inconvenience or is some how a deterrent to my own well being, I should be allowed to just kill them regardless of the situation.

We have a generation of killers on our hands and many of them are in positions of power.

But a murderer is still just that no matter the twisted and contorted justifications.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 10:51 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
"Enlightenment" my ass! This is atavistic instead.

Yes, one should eat anything one kills.

Instead of enlightmnment we have some serious devolution going on now.

Lower IQ's and basic animalistic tendencies now abound with street killings, higher homicide rates, etc. Calling it otherwise does not change the crude nature of such solutions.

Crude and stupid is the new cool. Heavy on the stupid part.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 10:51 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
You obviously don't have children, do you, OP?
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 10:54 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Lower IQ's and basic animalistic tendencies now abound with street killings, higher homicide rates, etc.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 730536


Attribute those facts to the 'garbage generation.' Generations of fatherless children.
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 10:55 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Murray N. Rothbard, in his The Ethics of Liberty, wrote...

" The proper groundwork for analysis of abortion is in every man’s absolute right of self-ownership. This implies immediately that every woman has the absolute right to her own body, that she has absolute dominion over her body and everything within it. This includes the fetus. Most fetuses are in the mother’s womb because the mother consents to this situation, but the fetus is there by the mother’s freely-granted consent. But should the mother decide that she does not want the fetus there any longer, then the fetus becomes a parasitic “invader” of her person, and the mother has the perfect right to expel this invader from her domain. Abortion should be looked upon, not as “murder” of a living person, but as the expulsion of an unwanted invader from the mother’s body.[2] Any laws restricting or prohibiting abortion are therefore invasions of the rights of mothers.

It has been objected that since the mother originally consented to the conception, the mother has therefore “contracted” its status with the fetus, and may not “violate” that “contract” by having an abortion. There are many problems with this doctrine, however. In the first place, as we shall see further below, a mere promise is not an enforceable contract: contracts are only properly enforceable if their violation involves implicit theft, and clearly no such consideration can apply here. Secondly, there is obviously no “contract” here, since the fetus (fertilized ovum?) can hardly be considered a voluntarily and consciously contracting entity. And thirdly as we have seen above, a crucial point in libertarian theory is the inalienability of the will, and therefore the impermissibility of enforcing voluntary slave contracts. Even if this had been a “contract,” then, it could not be enforced because a mother’s will is inalienable, and she cannot legitimately be enslaved into carrying and having a baby against her will."

[link to mises.org]
Anonymous Coward
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10/27/2009 11:52 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
You obviously don't have children, do you, OP?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 803742


No, but neither does the American government.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2009 10:23 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
bump
Lady Lara Croft

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11/19/2009 10:27 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Any child under three (some say under five) for which women cannot take care of is eligible for infanticide.

From a progressive point of view, legalizing it would be the best way to achieve efficient population control.

It was common in the Greek classical age, when liberated advanced women could freely dispose of their children. It's time to return tho Thids Godlen Age of female freedom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783644

children are not disposable. you should have been, but that is not the answer, regardless.
Anonymous Coward
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11/19/2009 10:33 PM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
It's the modern age. Everyone get sterilized at birth and if they are authorized to have children at a time the State deems appropriate then the proper scientific procedures will guarantee only the finest pedigree. Don't you agree?

Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 01:56 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
children are not disposable.
 Quoting: Lady Lara Croft


Old people are disposable. Why not children ?
NeoFistOfTheGolgoNinj​a

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11/20/2009 01:57 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
Any child under three (some say under five) for which women cannot take care of is eligible for infanticide.

From a progressive point of view, legalizing it would be the best way to achieve efficient population control.

It was common in the Greek classical age, when liberated advanced women could freely dispose of their children. It's time to return tho Thids Godlen Age of female freedom.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 783644

If this was common in the past how is it "progressive"?

It was done away with to progress or move forward.
[link to www.youtube.com]
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.-- Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 02:00 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
If this was common in the past how is it "progressive"?

It was done away with to progress or move forward.
 Quoting: NeoFistOfTheGolgoNinja


Only if you believe that patriarchal medieval philosophy leads to progress. Most modern progressives have embraced the Greek philosophy of infanticide as being truly progressive because unaffected by Christianityé
Live for life
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11/20/2009 02:01 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
OP is joking
this would be unacceptable, while we are at it, lets protect the unborn, shall we??
7491

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11/20/2009 02:03 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
your spelling is horrible....
 Quoting: mr...bojangles

hummbird And thats not the only thing. Abortion is a very serious matter from a biblical point of view. WHO MURDERED CLARICE?...

[link to www.chick.com]
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 02:04 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
OP is joking
this would be unacceptable, while we are at it, lets protect the unborn, shall we??
 Quoting: Live for life 809551


If they can't defend themselves, why should they deserve our protection ? Read Nietzsche.
NeoFistOfTheGolgoNinj​a

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11/20/2009 02:05 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
If this was common in the past how is it "progressive"?

It was done away with to progress or move forward.


Only if you believe that patriarchal medieval philosophy leads to progress. Most modern progressives have embraced the Greek philosophy of infanticide as being truly progressive because unaffected by Christianityé
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 822738

Which is why I always fight labels like "progressive" or "conservative". They are far from accurate.
[link to www.youtube.com]
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.-- Thomas Jefferson
NeoFistOfTheGolgoNinj​a

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11/20/2009 02:09 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
OP is joking
this would be unacceptable, while we are at it, lets protect the unborn, shall we??


If they can't defend themselves, why should they deserve our protection ? Read Nietzsche.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 822738

Seriously?! Nietzsche?!

LMAO!!!

A self-serving, childish maniac who couldn't control the fact that he didn't get everything he wanted all the time.

Why not just revert back to a child-like state while maintaining your ability to read and write, then you will be Freddy all over again.
[link to www.youtube.com]
A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor and bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government.-- Thomas Jefferson
astratt7

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11/20/2009 02:14 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
The culture of death is alive and well.
All of the unrepentant murderers of babies will have their justice one day at the White Throne Judgment of God, and there will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Repent!

Last Edited by astratt7 on 11/20/2009 02:15 AM
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 02:17 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
That's not quite what was proposed, but it's horrid, just the same. In short, mothers who murder their children, up to one year after they're born, will get a bit of a pass. They'll not be tried for homicide if it's determined that they had post-partum depression when they killed their kids. They'll receive a sentence of TWO years in prison. You read that right; it's not a typo. You don't have to be the most pro-life person in the world to despise this monstrosity.
astratt7

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11/20/2009 02:19 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
If this was common in the past how is it "progressive"?

It was done away with to progress or move forward.


Only if you believe that patriarchal medieval philosophy leads to progress. Most modern progressives have embraced the Greek philosophy of infanticide as being truly progressive because unaffected by Christianityé

Which is why I always fight labels like "progressive" or "conservative". They are far from accurate.
 Quoting: NeoFistOfTheGolgoNinja


That's right...you are a evolutionist...survival of the fittest?
Well the Maya would sacrifice hundreds of people and cut out there hearts so they could have good crops...why don't we do that again?....BTW....you go first
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 02:23 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
I think this is the natural progression once abortion becomes an accepted practice.

This society is in love with death.

I think that is why we are being destroyed. God knows what evil lies in the hearts of mankind.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789658

This comment has merit. Infanticide isn't particular to our time and place, though. It was common in ancient times. It is practiced in Third World countries. China had a bad record of it due to its one-child law. There was a time in Rome when a parent could kill their child....at any age.
Anonymous Coward
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11/20/2009 02:29 AM
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Re: Women have a right to infanticide
If this was common in the past how is it "progressive"?

It was done away with to progress or move forward.


Only if you believe that patriarchal medieval philosophy leads to progress. Most modern progressives have embraced the Greek philosophy of infanticide as being truly progressive because unaffected by Christianityé
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 822738

Why aren't more of "enlightened and progressive" feminists anti-abortion? I bet that most of them think that capital punishment is barbaric. Logic dictates that they also should be against killing young human life, guilty of no crime.