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Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World

 
Lionclawx
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User ID: 777999
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10/08/2009 07:24 AM
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Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
EDIT: Z day = Zombie Day

This is a guide to what kind of economy will likely exist after z-day or another apocalypse, why it might be so, and tips to both buyers and sellers. It also contains information on trade items and services.

Currency and it's Fall A currency system relies on a relatively stable world. For a currency system to be successful, you must know that you will always be able to use this currency everywhere, and must have a way to prevent counterfeiting. In a post-apocalyptic world, this stability for the most part does not exist. On the other hand, you do know that people will always need and be willing to pay for certain things. This is why a currency system will fall and be replaced by a barter system.

Trade Supplies

1. Addictive Substances - At the beginning of Z-day, many drugs will be high in demand. People will give almost anything to get their fix, and this can be beneficial to you. However, most drugs will decrease a person's survivability, such as hallucinogens. After a few months, all the people who were addicted to such substances are going to be infected. I do not recommend stockpiling illegal drugs before z-day, as this can cause problems with the law and society, and most of them will quickly lose worth.

2. Tobacco and alcohol - Tobacco products are going to be in demand for a long time, because they won't much decrease a person's survivability, and are highly addictive. People will be willing to pay much for them. Alcohol will be in demand, although true addicts will die early either from alcohol-related problems or because a zombie ate them while they were drunk.

3. Food - Food will be in demand by people who didn't stockpile enough food, or those who have other services to provide. Those who can produce food will have a major advantage. People who can cure or store food to last long in any way will have a great advantage. People who can store food in cold, dry areas such as a stone or metal cellar, or a freezer with electricity, will be able to ask a lot for relatively fresh or well-made food.

4. Fuel - Petroleum based fuels will be in demand by certain groups of people. Although there will not be a large market, they will be valuable, especially if they are high purity. People who have fuel additives which can restore fuel or preserve it will have an advantage. Fuel will of course be used for vehicles, stoves, power generators, and many other things.

5. Medical Supplies - Any sort of medical supplies, from antibiotics to painkillers , will be in high demand and will hold great value. Even the most common medicines will be used up quickly. Simple things like aspirin, Bacitracin or Neosporin, petroleum jelly, saline solution, or hydrogen peroxide will be in demand. Bandages and materials for making casts will also be in great demand. Some of this stuff must generally be stored in a cold area, so a cellar or freezer with electricity will be useful.

6. Weapons and Ammunition - Weapons will be necessary to survival after z-day. Projectile weapons, including firearms, require ammunition. Even with things like a bow, the arrows will eventually break and get lost, and it's not as easy to manufacture arrows or bolts as people think. High-quality arrows or bolts take time and skill to manufacture, and will be in demand. Firearm ammunition will also be in high demand, and will be very valuable. Weapons will eventually break, and people who have other things to trade will be willing to pay much for new firearms or other weapons.

7. Batteries - Many things require batteries. Some of them will last for a long time and will have great use after Z-day, and people will be willing to pay for batteries. They will also be willing to pay exorbitant amounts for rechargeable batteries and a solar recharger.

8. Stimulants - Yes, I understand most stimulants are highly addictive. However, they will also be in demand by many people. Workers, bodyguards, traveling salesmen, messengers, or even just normal people looking for fun. Some of the weaker, less addictive or non-addictive ones, such as caffeine, might even be in higher demand, due to less side effects and the fact that people don't necessarily want an addiction. If you can store caffeine powder and/or energy drinks, they'll be good for trading. The ability to make stimulants will also help you. Storing bulk caffeine powder and other things such as ginseng will allow you to make stimulant drinks, bars, pretty much anything

9. Seasonings and Salt - Seasonings will be in demand. My thread, Psychological Effects of Food describes why, in some detail. Salt will also be in demand, both for use as a seasoning and preservative, but also because it can clean wound and when mixed with water, can clean surfaces. However, if used to clean metal, the object should then be rinsed with plain water and then dried, to prevent corrosion due to salt.

10. Literature - Books, both fictional and non-fictional, will be in demand. Magazines, manuals, and textbooks will also be in demand. People will read for entertainment, but will also read to improve their survival chances, quality of life, and/or status in society. If you only have one copy left of any book, literature or academic, put it in a vault and guard it with your life. Preferably a vault similar to an old fashioned bank vault. It'd really suck for society to recover but have hundreds of years of writing and intellectual progress disappear. This goes for modern Fantasy and Science Fiction, too, not just old literature. If you can get to an author, protect modern authors. On the other hand, I doubt that certain Military Fiction and Science Fiction authors will need any help. John Ringo, anyone? I don't think he'll take kindly to zombies trying to eat him.

11. Chemicals - Chemists and some other people will be in desperate need of chemicals. If you can provide lab grade chemicals, and reagent grade chemicals for the more delicate things at a higher price, they'll buy from you. If you can get some chemicals from natural sources, you'll do even better.

Services

1. Mechanical Repair - Generators, doors, weapons, vehicles, pretty much anything will wear out to repair it will be high in demand, and will be paid well.

2. Mercenaries - Traveling traders, messengers, just people going place to place on their own may want to hire bodyguards. Caravans will eventually begin to form, and they will collectively hire people to guard them both from zombies and bandits. People with weapons and skills will be high in demand, and although there will be many for hire, the truly skilled will begin to develop a reputation, not to mention the unskilled will die sooner. However, the less skilled will still be in demand as guards for people in cities.

3. Medical Professionals - People are invariably going to get injured or sick. More severe injuries or diseases will require someone who actually knows what to do and what to use. Whether you provide supplies or simply expertise, you will be high in demand.

4. Weapons Designers - People who can design and/or create weapons will be in demand, as weapons and tools will begin to deteriorate. This also applies to armor. You will not be in demand early on, but demand will slowly increase, and in the beginning, you will get the odd job which pays well. You will also find a welcoming in some preexisting communities

5. Manufacturers - This includes blacksmiths, people with machine shops and generators, or simple a lot of tools and some electricity. You will be in demand. If you can keep your tools and stay alive, you'll make out fine.

6. Food Related Skills - If you can get food, somehow, communities will need you, and/or individuals will want to buy from you. Hunting or farming is a good idea. Those who hunt will also be in demand as guides

7. Messengers/Radio owners - People who can send messages of some kind will be in demand. I envision a system where all major communities have a radio or more than one, and you pay money to send a radio message, which is recorded at the receivers, and if the intended recipient is in the same area as a receiver, he gets the message.

8. Prostitution - Quite frankly, this will happen. I seriously hope somebody out there will still be producing condoms, to stop disease spread and pregnancies. If you're a prostitute, either save up trade materials or some sort of local currency, if it exists. Becoming a pimp or finding another job would work, too. This is necessary, because when you get old, you'll lose appeal and your income.

9. Electricity- People will pay for electricity. People will have Ipods after Z-day, and still want to use them. People who have rechargeable batteries will want them recharged; some people who have electric vehicles and use them for short distances will want electricity. If you can keep a small solar array, wind mill, or hydroelectric generator running, you'll be in demand. You can also rent man-power based generators out to people for cheaper prices, or rent gasoline generators out for bigger jobs, so long as they provide the fuel. Make sure no one can use any of the stuff without you. Also, hire guards.

10. Entertainment - People don't do well with monotony and boredom. If you can find a stage, people will pay to see a comedian. Live music will do well, and people will pay to see it. I'd risk my life to save Three Days Grace, Paramore, Slipknot, Evanescence, and many other bands, if I had the opportunity. If you can't have live music but have electricity, get speakers and hook them up to a CD player, Ipod, or computer, and play music for money. Also consider broadcasting over the radio. Advertising works now and it will work then. Just don't bother broadcasting music more than five or ten miles. You could also set up a library and rent out books, with a penalty of never renting out a book to that person again if they lose it or destroy it.

11. Chemist - People have a tendency not to think about all the chemicals used in daily life. Certain types of steel require chemicals to create. Gunpowder can be made with a simple recipe and common chemicals. Toothpaste will be useful post z-day, and many medical supplies can be made with access to chemicals and some tools. The point is, if you know what you're doing and have beakers, flasks, Bunsen burners, centrifuges, etc, you can create many important and useful chemicals. The demand for the things chemists can create will slowly climb, jumping each time a product runs out or decays. The reason it will slowly climb is because of ammunition becoming scarcer and scarcer, and chemists can create gunpowder and eventually smokeless powder. Chemists can also create the processes necessary to extract certain chemicals from common materials, which will be necessary in the long term.

12. Training - The more skills a person is, the easier it is to survive. There will be people who need certain skills, and those who already know these skills and can teach them will profit in more ways than one. In addition to charging for teaching someone, it can spread the reputation of your skills, and people also tend to look up to their former teachers. This may turn your students into long-term allies and/or friends.

Guidelines for Buying

1. Liquids - If you are trading for a liquid, ask that it be in a clear container. Ask that you are allowed to watch it for about 15 minutes if you're buying in bulk. Ask if they'll demonstrate it, if possible

2. Food - Ask them to eat a tiny amount. If someone is selling sealed cans or something, check the seal. Pay for one can and open it to see if there was a low pressure within. Check the seal on anything from before the apocalypse.

3. Fuels - Burn a small amount. If it looks funny, ask for a small sample and add a fuel restoration additive

4. Services - Ask other people about the person providing the service

5. Training - Ask other people, and ask for an example of their skill.

Guidelines for Merchants

1. Sell in a Populated Place - Selling in a populated place, like a market in a community, is a good way to protect your goods. People, as a general rule, do not look kindly on thieves. Major communities may also eventually place guards in marketplaces, or on towers around a marketplace with rifles.

2. Storing and Protecting Merchandise - If you have more than you are selling, store your stuff in a room with only one, strong entrance. Make the entrance an airlock style thing, where it has a door, a little holding room like the size of a bathroom stall, and an outer door. This way, a person won't gain anything by killing you, because there will always be one door closed, at the least. If you don't do this, they can kill you while the door is open and take all your stuff.

3. Traveling Merchants - Hire a guard, or carry a weapon you are high skilled with. If you can't hire a guard, travel with a preexisting caravan or befriend someone who has a guard.

4. Reputation - You need a reputation as trustworthy. This is extremely important. Without it, people will stop buying from you, and newcomers will notice the way everyone stays away from you. Also, cultivate a reputation as a dangerous person to screw with in any way. This will help keep stiffs away.

5. Protection - Keep a guard or sniper around you if it's not in a populated market place. Then, if someone tries to steal or kill you, you end up with a dead body and two trade items.

Guidelines for Teachers and Trainers

1. Reputation - Reputation is paramount. Do everything you can to cultivate a reputation as both skilled and as a good instructor. Just as when you're a merchant, you need a reputation as dangerous person to screw with. Always carry a weapon.

2. Protection - Always carry a weapon, have a friend check in on your or keep a guard. Relatives are great; your better-behaved current or former students can also make good guards, since you don't want to spend large sums of money on guards. Check students for weapons.

3. Traveling Teachers - Same as being a merchant, hire a guard or bring a friend or relative. It would be great if you performed your job with a partner, as then you'd have a free guard. If you're a traveling teacher, you probably have an extremely well known reputation and a fair amount of money, and can afford a skilled mercenary. You may be able to travel with a preexisting caravan, and even pay your way to better protection by teaching your skills

Last Edited by Lionclawx on 10/08/2009 08:03 AM
Lionclawx  (OP)

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10/08/2009 07:26 AM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
Psychological Effects of Food


After looking around for useful survival rations, I decided that one could survive on 1200 Calorie per day emergency rations. However, I also realized a problem. Eating the same exact food for days on end, cold or room temperature, would be extremely boring. It would probably result in anger and frustration, which are things you do NOT want people confined with other people in a small space experiencing. I suspect that eating a hot meal different from the usual even every 2 weeks will help alleviate these problems. A good thing for this would be some of Nitro-Pak's Mountain House foods, which can have a 25 year shelf life, and merely require hot water. Self-heating MREs, particularly the better tasting flavors, would also be useful. These things are also a good idea, even if you're working with fresh vegetables and beef, chicken, or fish, because people will be happier if they can get some of the meals they are used to, despite the shortage of certain things after Z-day. I'd like comments on whether people think this is a likely problem, whether my solutions would work, and if there are other solutions.
Lionclawx  (OP)

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10/08/2009 08:03 AM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
Attitude and You: Staying Positive in Times of Crisis

Z-Day has come and you find yourself barricaded in a location that renders you “safe” for the time being. You are alone. You have had to abandon or even kill someone close to you to prevent them from mauling you. You try the tube. Static. You try the radio, with the same result. The feelings of panic and frustration well up inside of you, and you toss the radio in a fit of rage. You calm down just in time to realize the sound of moaning over the static from the television. You peer out your window to realize you are severely outnumbered and surrounded by horrible looking monsters. Your only weapon, a small handgun, holds enough ammo for less than a dozen of them. However, it seems to be an acceptable choice for another way out of the situation you are in. How did it come to this?

How can I avoid this?

A more important question to ask yourself is how can I avoid this? It’s quite simple actually, but the loss of hope can prove disastrous to your survival efforts should your situation become as grim as the aforementioned scenario. As the feelings of hopelessness and complete isolation intensify the chances of you being able to cope with them decrease. There are measures that can be taken to increase your ability to cope with a zombie invasion, or any disaster for that matter.

Ignorance & Distraction

For one thing, earplugs can provide you a release from the ever present drone of the zombie moan. While not the best use of resources, a CD-player or your MP3 player can even provide a favorite song that may ease your nerves a bit. However, you could probably put those batteries to better use. A deck of cards gives you something for your hands to play with while you think, which makes sure you aren’t too idle. A book can take your mind off the situation to some extent, and keep your mind going. Reading enough may even help you get to sleep, if you have the light to read by. A notebook and a pen can prove to be a double edged sword, depending on what goes on the paper. Recording your thoughts would likely improve the situation, but writing some pessimistic or gloomy thoughts will not go far towards improving your mood.

Whatever you choose to do, keep yourself busy. Keeping your mind on things that need to be done keeps your mind off of the extreme danger and the feelings of isolation and weakness. It also keeps your safe-haven well maintained, and even improved. Work on something long enough, and it can become part of a plan for escape or possibly even killing a large amount of zombies.

Positive Thinking, Positive Results

Perhaps your greatest ally in the fight for maintaining spirit is optimism. Looking at the bright side of things, no matter how grim the situation, can keep you from cracking long after you may have with a bad attitude. Even if it doesn’t do that much, it will still stop you from the dangers of thinking negatively.

Thinking on how you can improve your situation can only do good things for you. It allows you to focus on how to deal with the situation rather than thinking about how hopeless it may be. Developing a plan allows you the opportunity to make goals for yourself, helps you find something that needs to be done around the house, and could ultimately save your life. Being an objective thinker is an excellent way to improve your mood and to open windows towards a solution.

Avoid Mind-/Mood-Altering Substances

A major thing you should avoid is alcohol. Avoid alcohol at all costs in an ominous environment, especially if you are depressed. Alcohol is a depressant, it slows down your heartbeat, and when enough of it is consumed, will compound your depression. Also, it goes without saying that the use of alcohol will severely impair your judgment and makes for poor decision making.

Your mental stature is arguably the most important aspect towards surviving. Being gloomy and depressed can prove deadly in many cases. Keeping positive and keeping busy can’t do any harm towards surviving. If the right steps are taken, you can avoid being negative and keep optimistic through threatening and hopeless situations. Knowing how to think in an emergency can prove imperative to survival.
Anonymous Coward
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10/08/2009 08:12 AM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
Unbelievable that after a global disaster event, the first point on your list is illegal drugs. Then tobacco and alcohol. Then weapons. Huh?

Ok, maybe some modern cityboys and -girl would have such a priority list for the rest of their short life in the ruins of a major city. But such people would not last to build the future world.

Water, Food and shelter (including fire), are the first things people require after they are thrown out of modern comfort-zone.

Then farming, hunting-gathering, medicine, etc. will be highly appreciated.

Then some might start to think about things like defence etc. if needed, but most people would have something else in their mind.

Bows and arrows would be the IDEAL hunting weapons, because you can make them out of nature, even without major hand-skills. Some practice and trial & error in action, and you have a renewable method for hunting. High quality arrows, weapons, ammunition, etc, will not last long. They present nothing in the foreseeable future.

At least I'm lucky enough to live in a country which would undoubtedly survive well in the face of any challenge. Peaceful country, where people are still highly religious (catholic), and patriotic, they are used to living in their local village communities, farming and hand-skills are still appreciated, where people pull together. I'm not afraid, no matter what comes towards us, we will survive.
Lionclawx  (OP)

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10/08/2009 06:34 PM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
bump
Lionclawx  (OP)

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10/10/2009 04:50 AM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
bump
rphunter

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10/10/2009 09:31 AM
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Re: Trading in a Post-Apocalyptic World
I agree it would be much better to congregate and then pool all the necessities , thus allowing security.

In some instances, the real missions will be agricultural production and/or migration to viable aquifers if it is a "real disaster"

Only when the congregation has secured the children into school, and are conducting religious observance, that you should BARTER AS A GROUP, from the excess that your now fully fed congregational adult man hours can generate an excess of, through production [ fabrication] from avaliable raw materials.


snip
Water, Food and shelter (including fire), are the first things people require after they are thrown out of modern comfort-zone.
snip
Then farming, hunting-gathering, medicine, etc. will be highly appreciated.

snip

At least I'm lucky enough to live in a country which would undoubtedly survive well in the face of any challenge. Peaceful country, where people are still highly religious (catholic), and patriotic, they are used to living in their local village communities, farming and hand-skills are still appreciated, where people pull together. I'm not afraid, no matter what comes towards us, we will survive.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 176293


Last Edited by RPHUNTER on 10/10/2009 09:33 AM





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