| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18 | Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days
| MuzicSoulWorldly
User ID: 791389
10/11/2009 2:20 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Look at Revelation 4:1 and see if it sounds familiar to you.
"After this, (THe events of chapters 1-3) I looked and behold a door was opened in heaven, and the first voice I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, which said come up hither and I will show you the things which must be here-after."
That my friend is the RAPTURE!!!
John moves to the future and beyond the church. Listen folks, the Great Tribulation Peroid that is coming has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH. The church is Raptured in 4:1 and it is then that God turns and deals with Israel.
IT IS ALL ABOUT ISRAEL NOT THE CHURCH.
The seals, bowls, and vials all come AFTER THE RAPTURE.
There is no Biblical way around this friends. NONE!!! Quoting: Major 647112
It soundz as though you are saying that since John was in the Spirit and was called up into Heaven to be able to see what would be occuring next, that this means that God's chosen-elect is going to be raptured-away before the Tribulation-period begins ? I don't see how this verse says this. How does John being in the Spirit in Heaven have anything to do with God's elect being raptured ? Is it because it seems as though John has been raptured which leads us to assume that this must be happening to others as well ? He wasn't raptured into Heaven, he was in Heaven in the spirit in order to be able to be shown what would be happening next, but this in no manner proves the rapturing of the saints.
If we go by the physical ordering of the events of the book of Revelation, we would then be seeing Satan and his fellow fallen-angels being cast out of Heaven after all 7 Seals have been opened-up and after all 7 Trumpets have been blown, blasted and sounded, but obviously this couldn't be the case because Satan and his minions of demons have been influencing the mindz of mankind here on Earth for 6,000 years now, ever since mankind was created by God's Holy Spirit.
Very often throughout Bible-prophesy, God kinda skips around in time a lil' bit, like He sometimes lays-out the
ground-work, the outline, for the prophesy and then comes back to the very beginning of it and lays it out in more detail. We cannot be so hasty and sure of ourselves that we say that we are absolutely right and everybody else just HAS GOT to be totally wrong, because that is the mentality of so many people out there.
I mean, if so many people have it right (regarding the rapturing and the other stuff which you have mentioned here), then what is the use of even having prophets, or God's Church ? We would need no guidance at all whatsoever from God's prophet because we would already know the truth, but how can that be the case ? If God says that most of the World has got the wrong truth, then what makes your viewz (which are held by much of the World regarding the rapturing and the timing and the revealing-factor) so above everybody else's ? Many of the prophets when their visions were explained to them, they couldn't understand what they were meaning since because the angels described in mostly spiritual terms and not in physical terms. Some prophecyz were not meant to be understood until the last days, during the End-Time period. I mean if you feel that these thingz can be revealed to you through your own understanding, then why can't the timing of the return of Jesus Christ be revealed in some way or form or manner ? This wouldn't be directly revealed to each of us individually though, but God would reveal it to Jesus Christ whom would reveal it to God's prophet, whom would reveal it to God's Church, and then etc.
Aaron |
| MuzicSoulWorldly
User ID: 791389
10/11/2009 2:22 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
The seals, bowls, and vials all come AFTER THE RAPTURE.
There is no Biblical way around this friends. NONE!!!
As far as someone knowing what is included in the "THUNDERS", they are very, very mis-informed.
Read the verse for your self.
Rev. 10:4
"And when the seven "thunders" had uttered their voices, I was about to write, and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me; SEAL UP THOSE SAYINGS WHICH THE SEVEN THUNDERS UTTERED AND WRITE THEM NOT".
There is no record of what they said!! NONE!!
Now, for one to say today that he knows what they are, is to say that they are more important than the "disciple who Jesus loved the most", an Apostle and the one who wrote more about the eternal past and eternal future of God than anyone else of all the Scriptures. Sorry friends, I aint buying that one. Quoting: Major 647112
Once again people are putting endless amountz of restrictionz upon God. Even though John did not write down the thingz which the 7 thunders had uttered, does that mean that God could not reveal those thunders when it'z time to, such as nearer to the time when the Thunders would actually be rumbling for real ? So much of Biblical prophesy is dependent upon the revealing of the understanding of the prophecies before they occur, because otherwise, if they aren't even understood before-hand, then the prophecies couldn't really be proven to have happened if we don't understand them in the first place. Without revelations from God, there would be no need for His Church or for His prophets or even for His prophecyz themselves. His prophecyz hinge upon their meaningz becoming revealed before they actually occur.
If you don't mind my asking you, whom was the Apostle which you were speaking of in your response above ?
Aaron |
| Major
User ID: 574846
10/11/2009 9:55 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
The seals, bowls, and vials all come AFTER THE RAPTURE.
There is no Biblical way around this friends. NONE!!!
As far as someone knowing what is included in the "THUNDERS", they are very, very mis-informed.
Read the verse for your self.
Rev. 10:4
"And when the seven "thunders" had uttered their voices, I was about to write, and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me; SEAL UP THOSE SAYINGS WHICH THE SEVEN THUNDERS UTTERED AND WRITE THEM NOT".
There is no record of what they said!! NONE!!
Now, for one to say today that he knows what they are, is to say that they are more important than the "disciple who Jesus loved the most", an Apostle and the one who wrote more about the eternal past and eternal future of God than anyone else of all the Scriptures. Sorry friends, I aint buying that one.
Once again people are putting endless amountz of restrictionz upon God. Even though John did not write down the thingz which the 7 thunders had uttered, does that mean that God could not reveal those thunders when it'z time to, such as nearer to the time when the Thunders would actually be rumbling for real ? So much of Biblical prophesy is dependent upon the revealing of the understanding of the prophecies before they occur, because otherwise, if they aren't even understood before-hand, then the prophecies couldn't really be proven to have happened if we don't understand them in the first place. Without revelations from God, there would be no need for His Church or for His prophets or even for His prophecyz themselves. His prophecyz hinge upon their meaningz becoming revealed before they actually occur.
If you don't mind my asking you, whom was the Apostle which you were speaking of in your response above ?
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying.
We have the Revelation of God, it is His Word the Bible.
Since there is no such Biblical thing today as prophets, your thought is actually irrelalent.
1 Corth. 13:8-9
"Love never fails, but where there be prophesies, they will fail, where there be tongues they shall cease, where there be knowledge it shall vanish.
9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with."
That perfect one (neuter in the Greek) refers to a thing and the only persfrst thing to ever be on the earth is the Bible, the perfect Word of God. Yes Jesus was perfect but He was a man not a thing as the Greek point to.
So we have the Bible. It is complete. It replaces PROPHECIS, TONGUES AND KNOWLEDGE. Do not take my word for this, do some homework. Study to show yourself approved of God.
That Apostle of course was John.Now you should have know that my friend. STUDY THE BOOK and do not liosten so much to "prophets".
Then..........the only thing that proves Biblical prophech is TIME.
Then another thing. How many of these so called "prophetts" today predict something that does not happen????
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM?
Now let me ask you this question. Why are they still alive. The Bible says that a prophet who predicts a wrong thing is false and he is to be put to death.
Deut. 18:20 |
| Major
User ID: 574846
10/11/2009 10:06 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Look at Revelation 4:1 and see if it sounds familiar to you.
"After this, (THe events of chapters 1-3) I looked and behold a door was opened in heaven, and the first voice I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me, which said come up hither and I will show you the things which must be here-after."
That my friend is the RAPTURE!!!
John moves to the future and beyond the church. Listen folks, the Great Tribulation Peroid that is coming has NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH. The church is Raptured in 4:1 and it is then that God turns and deals with Israel.
IT IS ALL ABOUT ISRAEL NOT THE CHURCH.
The seals, bowls, and vials all come AFTER THE RAPTURE.
There is no Biblical way around this friends. NONE!!!
It soundz as though you are saying that since John was in the Spirit and was called up into Heaven to be able to see what would be occuring next, that this means that God's chosen-elect is going to be raptured-away before the Tribulation-period begins ? I don't see how this verse says this. How does John being in the Spirit in Heaven have anything to do with God's elect being raptured ? Is it because it seems as though John has been raptured which leads us to assume that this must be happening to others as well ? He wasn't raptured into Heaven, he was in Heaven in the spirit in order to be able to be shown what would be happening next, but this in no manner proves the rapturing of the saints.
If we go by the physical ordering of the events of the book of Revelation, we would then be seeing Satan and his fellow fallen-angels being cast out of Heaven after all 7 Seals have been opened-up and after all 7 Trumpets have been blown, blasted and sounded, but obviously this couldn't be the case because Satan and his minions of demons have been influencing the mindz of mankind here on Earth for 6,000 years now, ever since mankind was created by God's Holy Spirit.
Very often throughout Bible-prophesy, God kinda skips around in time a lil' bit, like He sometimes lays-out the
ground-work, the outline, for the prophesy and then comes back to the very beginning of it and lays it out in more detail. We cannot be so hasty and sure of ourselves that we say that we are absolutely right and everybody else just HAS GOT to be totally wrong, because that is the mentality of so many people out there.
I mean, if so many people have it right (regarding the rapturing and the other stuff which you have mentioned here), then what is the use of even having prophets, or God's Church ? We would need no guidance at all whatsoever from God's prophet because we would already know the truth, but how can that be the case ? If God says that most of the World has got the wrong truth, then what makes your viewz (which are held by much of the World regarding the rapturing and the timing and the revealing-factor) so above everybody else's ? Many of the prophets when their visions were explained to them, they couldn't understand what they were meaning since because the angels described in mostly spiritual terms and not in physical terms. Some prophecyz were not meant to be understood until the last days, during the End-Time period. I mean if you feel that these thingz can be revealed to you through your own understanding, then why can't the timing of the return of Jesus Christ be revealed in some way or form or manner ? This wouldn't be directly revealed to each of us individually though, but God would reveal it to Jesus Christ whom would reveal it to God's prophet, whom would reveal it to God's Church, and then etc.
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
NOPE. READ THE BOOK.
Revelation 1:10 does not say that John was caught up to heaven my friend. YOU just added to the Word of God.
Deut. 4:2
"You shall not add unto the Word which I have commanded you, neither shall you dimish aught from it".
John was on Patmos. He was IN the Spirit. God revealed to him the things that were to come in a vision on a Sunday.
A.T. Robertson/"Word Pictures" Vol. VI pg. 290.
Deismann/Bible Studies/ Pg 217ff. LIGHT pg. 357fr.
T.A. Tozer/ Heaven is Coming, .
So, that being the case, and John was not "caught up", your point is mute.
I have noticed that you have not listed any verses and instead of responding to the ones I gave you about the Rapture, you have simply posted your thoughts.
Lets deal with Bible verses against Bible verse not what we think. The problem with "what we think' is that we are saved sinners witht he sin nature still alive and well. We tend as humans to exergerate and stretch our thoughts into fact....and there is the problem. |
| ThreshingSword
User ID: 762510
10/11/2009 10:28 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
MAJOR, the notion that prophecy or prophets are done away with now that we have the Bible is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS!
First of all, the Greek word in 1 Cr 13:10 is "teleios," and it means this:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
a) consummate human integrity and virtue
b) of men
1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
So you see up above, it can refer to an actual person.
Secondly, I'll prove it by quoting 1 Corinthians 2:6, which uses that SAME Greek word "teleios," and you will see there that it IS talking about people:
"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:"
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim control the world now, but not for long!
yelk3@live.com |
| Major
User ID: 574846
10/11/2009 10:35 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Hey Major, do you have a scriptural reference for this...
Who will populate the Millennial Kingdom in mortal bodies???
MORTAL SOULS - NOT MORTAL(as in FLESH) BODIES) WILL populate the millennial kingdom.
And they will be governed by the 'first fruits' that have already put on immortality.
Rev 20:4 And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
Rev 20:5 But the rest of the dead (still having a mortal soul) lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection. Quoting: Country Girl nli 791101
Thanks for asking. I will be glad to do so.
Rev. 20:1-10
What was seen in Rev. 11:15 by way of anticipation is here realozed. It is understood and stated in many places that Christ will sit on His throne and reign as the legitmate Son of David and that is what is in view here. Then who are the occupants of the thrones?
From the combined testimony of Scripture, they will be the saints (! Corth. 6:2) who reign as the Queen of the King. There will also be Old Test. saints who will rule as viceregents (Deut. 28:1/Matt. 19:28).
The rest of the dead do not experience resurrection until the 1000 years are finished. Thus it is pointless and baseless to speak of a general resurrection in order to avoid the intervening 1000 years as amillennialists choose to do. The order of the ress. as listed in Scripture are:
1 Cort. 15;23-24
Rev. 20:4
Daniel 12:1-3
Luke 20:34-36
Now, all sin has been put down at Armageddon, chapter 19.
The A/C and False prophet have bben placed in the lake of fire.
The devil is bound.
The wicked have not yet been resurrected (Rev. 20:5).
But we read in verse #8 that afeter Satan is lossened from the abyss (8) "And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four corners of the world, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle, the number of whom is as the sand of the sea".
(9) And "they" went up on the breadteh of the earth and compassed the camp of the SAINTS about the beloved city and fire came down from God and devoured them".
WHO ARE THEY THAT THESE VERSES SPEAK OF???
Now remember, it can not be the glorifed saints who were Raptured (Church) they have glorified bodies and can not reproduce. (Matthew 22:30). We know where all the players are except ONE. The people who believed the witness of the 144,000 who did not take the Mark of the Beast and lived through the Tribulation Period. Those people did not die. They will now marry and have children and poipulate the earth. The children of those saints are not saved. They are children of saved parents but they have never been temped because the devil has been locked up. Therefotre he is realeased, and man does what he alwasy has done....rebelle and sin and fillow Satan.
Read it for your self. |
| Major
User ID: 574846
10/11/2009 10:45 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
As I mentioned before, I know of only 3 people that come to glp that understood my play on my avatar name choice.
And Country Girl is one of them...
She is sealed by God, I have never met her, and I don't email her, and I have no idea where she lives. But she is sealed and how I know is that she can bring forth the same information that I have, and sometimes even better. I am better in person than in typing on the net. My English is a bit poor so I have to find words that I can spell and write to make things clear as I can. I hope this helps you understand the value of metaphors, Hebraism, and figures of speech and learning them. There is lots of hidden manna that gets revealed when you get a handle on those things.
Again, that is why I mentioned Eccl. chapter 12 to all of you. Most here have no idea what it is talking about in that chapter. I have in the past even challenged someone who was giving me a hard time to validate it for us. And you should of read some of the response that we all read at that time. Funny and way off base.
Now, I made these statements and they are not of pride and of boasting, so please do not slam me to the floor. Just take what I have given and go verify. I teach, and my number one I do is teach others how to verify. And by doing so, I tell them that when they get to the point of learning on their own, I get to step aside and they can have a one on one with God in His Word without me being the middle man like most pastors like to be. I am not your Shepherd, I am an elect and a humble servant to all. Quoting: Little Star
Accordiong to the Bible, all who come to Christ are SEALED..Ephesians 1:13
"IN whom ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation in whom after that you believed you were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise".
All who come to Christ are SEALED darlin. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:01 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
You cannot understand the prophecies of the end times without first understanding who the gentiles really are.
As I believe Wingedlion has said in another thread, the time of the gentiles is about to end. If you read Luke 21:24 - 32, this explains where we are at on God's timeline. Jesus said once you see all these things taking place, meaning being alive to see the end of the time of the gentiles, that very generation that sees all these things will be the generation that sees the Lord's return. There's differing interpretations on what constitutes a "generation" in the Bible, but it never defines a generation as a few years.
Who really are the gentiles? Not many people understand who they really are. Once you realize who they are, a whole lot of the Bible begins to make a heck of a lot more sense.
Do you think I don't know who the gentiles are?
Let me ask you a question>>> Who are the Kenites?
Hey, sorry for being bold, I am just trying to excite the conversation to the point where you might want to take the time to check out what I present....
You might see more than you know if you do.... lol
Hey, I am a good guy on your side, just not a play actor that thinks he is better than anyone else... (Not saying you are that way, just me expressing my inner thoughts)..
I can assure you I am very up to speed with the bible and the manuscripts and languages.. ( I can just hear it now again today how someone will tell me I am pompous donkey)..
I usually get that because I make people think for themselves instead of listening to mens traditions...
Have I offended you yet OP? I hope not..
^ Little Star, what in the world are you talking about? I was commenting on the original article of the OP concerning the end times, not anything you have said. I'm not quite sure what you believe to even comment upon it. I do enjoy reading you on this forum, though, and I found that born from above mini-sermon interesting.
Sorry, I do get people excited at times.
The born from above is quite true and I would challenge anyone to validate it for themselves...
I think I was talking to OP... At least I am hoping I am..
I don't think that you were talkin to me what you had said that, lol. You said you're sorry cuz you do get people excited some times, which makes it out to be like that other person got too overly excited and caused the thing, lol. It'z not them that got excited, it'z because you kinda lashed-out at him even thought he wasn't directing his message towardz you. It seems like alot of people apologize for something but then say that it was the other person getting too excited which caused it, lol. This doesn't even really matter to me, it was just intriguing to me so I wanted to point those thingz out. I still have got more messages from you and others to respond back to, so hang-on tight there Tiger.
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
I afraid I don't feel the spirit of peace within your words right here. I see a pointing finger and that is fine, but I am not going to be sucked into something because of your inner self of not having peace. I wish you well. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:09 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Little Star, who do you understand the Kenites to be?
OH, I can tell ya who they are in todays world and I can point to the scripture that defines who they were in yesterdays history..
1 Chronicles 2:55.. They all mixed with the fallen angels, and they are the seed of Satan....
(Boy did I open up on something that will get many upset..)
lol
When I mean seed of Satan, just that, they are the direct blood line of Satan. And they live today and rule the world today, ever meet one?
We have all our presie's running to one here in the US every time we need to have something special done...
I've heard this belief before, regarding the angels mixing-in with human-beings to create this angel-human hybrod creature, but it just seems too weird. I don't think God would have allowed that, and plus, how can an angel, whom is composed of spirit, produce or impregnate a woman that is composed of physical matter ? I just don't see God allowing the angels to produce off-spring between spiritual-beings and physical-beings. When it talks about the sons of God and the daughters of men, maybe it doesn't mean how it soundz, I mean cuz sons of God can mean either angels or human-beingz, so it could mean the male sons of God mixing with the female daughters of men. I'm not totally for sure what those lines mean, but how come this angel-human hybrid is the only valid thing that it could possibly mean ? Is it not possible to mean something else ?
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
It is okay with me that you do not believe or understand what I have written. I am not out to change anyones belief as I said in the outset of this thread.
I can validate everything I posted by using scripture and asking you to find it yourself.
The second influx of the Napha (That is a key word for you, and it is spelled from what I have found 3 different ways. I prefer to using the Napha because of my studies)..
So the second influx of the Napha fallen angels are found in Genesis chapter 14:5. The tribe named Rephaims in Ashteroth Karnaim can be found in many books and also in the "manucripts" as being those that mixed with a very wicked fallen angel named "Rapha".Rephaims are another branch of the Nephilim. Plus if you do your homework you will see that the Emims and Zuzims are the evil ones, roaming things, terrors, race of giants.
I can see that you are struggling at what you think is in the bible. But hey, as I shared already the scripture defines that the Word is sealed.
No, the mixing of angel-human hybrids are defined by many names of tribes, and as I said above in this very post. Emims, and Zusims.. That should help you, and if you cannot see that, what shall I say or do? Nothing, again, I am not in control of anyones mindset..
Blessings. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:16 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
The speculations and confusions of the Lawless. These things are perfectly foretold in the Law/Torah that was never done away but of his Heart of his Book in the Living Words who is the one remission of sin and of that Life given of his Blood.
Daniel 12. Outline of the Scattering to the Restoration of Power of the Holy People. Of the Redeemed.
1000/1000/500 - 1335 at 2500 - 1290 at -45/+45. To fit the timeline the +45 at Ezra/Nehemiah, the -45 at the putting forth of leaves of the Fig Tree.
Scattering to the Re-gathering of the secnod Exodus.
Jeremiah 46 / 586 BC / First Bondage 430 / Second Bondage X 6/At the X 7 the Bondservant will go free.
The witnesses of Revelation 11 are Lawful but only in Spirit and Truth that cannot be seperated for it is in the Heart of the Messiah, of his BEING.
Start with the Ten Commandments for those following them where there is Spirit and Truth of that remission of sin of an unconditional Yes to the Messiah of whose heart they still are shown in the Ark of the Covenant but more awesome in the Living Covenant of that true Ark.
YHVH Yahushua are ONE.
No Idols.
Use his NAME Yahuweh not a Baal Title.
Keep his Shalom of Shabbat not adding or taking away from the Living Shabbat. Yahushua is not a worship service but speaking of the Being as ONE with that Shabbat to do his commandments.
Love YHVH that way and then love others as loving oneself in Loving YHVH.
Honor mother and father.
No Murder.
No Adultery.
No Stealing.
No Bearing False Witness.
No Coveting.
No Lies.
Possible where there is remission of sin where the Walking is set in Yes One on One to the Messiah if one can walk in that truth as the one to do so must be born again of that Spirit and Truth where it is impossible to fail. A heart condition to strive against sin where there is forgiveness in confession and repentance before the Throne of Heaven.
If you get a chance, do a real good study on the words "Born Again".
When you really do get down to doing that, you will find that no where in the manuscripts does it say "Born Again" as referred by your words. Yes, I know what you are sharing and it is wonderful and all, so don't mis-understand what I am sharing and saying.
Born again is not born again in the scriptures which you are referring to about Born Again. In the manuscripts is says "Born from Above".
Oh my, I wonder what that means?
If you interested ask and I will tell you how to find out for yourself.
Again, I understand what you shared, I am just presenting what is in the manuscripts, nothing more or less.
So is there a differene in being Grafted into the Tree of Life where the experience is of being Born Again, Born from Above, Baptized in the Life of the Holy Spirit of the baptizer Yahushua, having eternal life by the Power of the Life that was given of the Blood of the Lamb but that Holy Spirit is the One of Being with that Great King? Word definitions mean nothing. The Meaning of the Words for the Heart, He Means Everything. His Heart is in the Meanings of Spirit of the Words. Spirit Knowing vs. proper definitions for the Knowledge of the Mind. But that Mind be Renewed by the Mind of the Messiah. Presume someone must meet the definitions of man for being of Spirit and Truth or is it of the Heart of Knowing the Messiah by His Words of Life, as in saying Faith coming from Hearing the Living Word speaking to the heart.
I understand clearly, so don't be upset with me about what I presented, and again I just told you what is in the manuscripts.
Now you state that word definitions mean nothing, right?
That is funny we have definitions for all words of every language and today "definitions mean nothing" according to you. I am not making any strife with ya, just pointing out some things for ya... mmmm k..
Now, what does the words Born from Above mean in the manuscripts where it is used in the bible as written "born again"?
Born from above means that a human is born through a womans womb and did not side step Gods plan like the Napah, fallen angels that side stepped Gods plan of everyone being born of woman and having their spiritual body put into the flesh body.
Big difference, huh? Big difference from the words Born again... huh?
Again, I am not trying to blast you with the simple words of Born again verse's Born from Above. I am just sharing what is written in the manuscripts and what it means. mmm k?
Next you will be asking me if I am born again.. lol
Sure am! More than you can know, spiritually!
Not understanding. No argument nor disagreement. But Spiritual words for the Heart to discern in Meaning above that of the knowledge of the mind. But that mind be renewed by the Mind of the Messiah.
Which is more important in the Kingdom of YHVH.
A definition to understand of mind.
A meaning to understand of heart?
Heart first the mind renewed.
The mind first, the heart confused where there is strife and argument over definitions where meanings take a back seat.
I love you too!!
Sorry for upsetting you...
No upsetting at all. The meanings for one on one with Messiah if one be given to understand. Messiah hasn't changed one 'jot' nor 'tittle' of the meanings of his heart to say of Spirit but we know to have that Shalom in him. Some to have preference in definition only of Words so similar that either way can lead to the knowing of the Heart of Messiah as in the definition given by the previous verse in John of flesh and spirit, but showing what 'born again' or 'born from above' means, but the Meaning of Experiencing that Thing did not change with either definition. See not upset but pointing out how the words can point to the experience of the Heart and how much more important is the meaning of Experience than just knowing about something.
Like I said before my friend, I am born of the spiritual "born again" as you want to say John said, which he did not say it the words, but did refer to being born in the body of Christ...(Which means the same as you are thinking)..
I am a Christ man, follower of YHVH or Jesus as we say in modern times, today...
I am awoken from the beginning of when we were all created in our spiritual body which was before we were born in the flesh..( I hope you can follow that and understand that)because it is truth..
We are spiritually all the same age... Did you know that?
Yes, I am spiritually awaken and "born again" and I love the Lord for saving me from the world and the deception and from the mistakes that I make...
Does that help you understand that I am agreeing with you, but I am showing you what is really written in the manuscripts, again, noting more, nothing less.. Peace, and love to ya in the Lord...
The Bible does not ever say that mankind was original created as spirit-beingz and then each of us were born into the flesh, all the while our spirit-bodyz are just sitting there being asleep until we are saved by Jesus Christ, I mean that is just not what the Bible says. I would like for you to provide some of those Scriptures for me that would support this, I'm really sorta-kinda wondering about this.
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
You keep saying the bible says this and the bible does not say that... I am pointing this out to you to in hopes of helping you see yourself.
The bible does say what I have said, and I can validate it by the way of the manuscripts.
If I was to say the Word Massora, is that found in the manuscripts, or is there a Massora in the manuscripts or is it a false statement? Your choosing..
Job 38:7 should open your eyes when God asks Job a question. I gave the symbolic information of how God has hidden things from most by using this type of format. In Job 38:7 God asks Job if he remembers being with Him and all of us singing and rejoicing. You seem to not of gotten that verse very well and I am not coming down on your mindset of what you think and don't think the bible says.
So answer my question above, is the word Massora in the manuscripts or is there a Massora in the manuscripts or is it a false statement all together? That will define for me and for you your educational background and how much you have really studied or not. And it will define if your belief is founded in "traditions of men"
Your choice, not mine. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:17 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Little Star, who do you understand the Kenites to be?
OH, I can tell ya who they are in todays world and I can point to the scripture that defines who they were in yesterdays history..
1 Chronicles 2:55.. They all mixed with the fallen angels, and they are the seed of Satan....
(Boy did I open up on something that will get many upset..)
lol
When I mean seed of Satan, just that, they are the direct blood line of Satan. And they live today and rule the world today, ever meet one?
We have all our presie's running to one here in the US every time we need to have something special done...
I've heard this belief before, regarding the angels mixing-in with human-beings to create this angel-human hybrod creature, but it just seems too weird. I don't think God would have allowed that, and plus, how can an angel, whom is composed of spirit, produce or impregnate a woman that is composed of physical matter ? I just don't see God allowing the angels to produce off-spring between spiritual-beings and physical-beings. When it talks about the sons of God and the daughters of men, maybe it doesn't mean how it soundz, I mean cuz sons of God can mean either angels or human-beingz, so it could mean the male sons of God mixing with the female daughters of men. I'm not totally for sure what those lines mean, but how come this angel-human hybrid is the only valid thing that it could possibly mean ? Is it not possible to mean something else ?
Aaron
Do you know the parable of the wheat and the tares?
The tares spoken of there are Satan's seed mixed in with the wheat.
Believe it - Satan's offspring are here.
But do not confuse them with the offspring of the fallen angels.
All of those were destroyed. Quoting: Country Girl nli 791240
It is hard to try and open eyes over the net, heh Country Girl?
Many will never see it until they are in their spiritual bodies as we know it to be true.. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:26 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Oh yes, I do know them, and I understand exactly what you're saying. Their rule is almost up, and then the Bible says that they will bow down and lick the dust at our feet.
Bravo! Who are you? You have your act together and I like that... IN other words, you have done you homework.... Again, Bravo!
Oh gosh, I still have a lot to learn. lol... Wingedlion taught me a lot of this. I mean ultimately, it was the Holy Spirit, but He used Wingedlion to answer a lot of questions I had.
I'll have to look more at what you're talking about the 6th and 8th day man. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'll pray about it. 
I gave you the tools to go do research on it the 6th day and th 8th day creation, by saying Adam ( 6th day man) and Eth HaAdam (8th day creation)... The key is those two words. (Adam and Eth HaAdam) I can promise you when you meet a real scholar they will be able to lead you to that info... In other words, I would hope that it excites you to try and learn to read the "manuscripts" for yourself...
I started to read them myself because of all the traditions of men and one church said this, and the next would say that, and then I would talk to some so called prophet and he would say one thing and then another one would say another thing...
So, yea, I scratch out each word myself... But I do have a mentor which read and writes 28 different languages which has helped me greatly... lol
Blessing.
Little Star, are you saying that the Bible doesn't speak of his works on the 8th Day because the only the manuscripts speak of it ?
are only different in the respect that the meanings of the words could be somewhat different, but however, if there was something about the 8th Day, certainly there are not too many ways or manners in which to state about an 8th Day, and don't you think man would have spoken about it ? Plus, God was repeating Himself regarding the creating of man and then breathing the life into his nostrils, but it wasn't a totally separate creation, that just wouldn't make any sense for Him to have done that. He was saying how God had made the Earth before any plants of herbs existed, but then he drew-up a mist to water the plants and made man from the dust of the Earth and breathed life into his nostrils. I mean, with that logic, then that means that he created the plant-life twice also, lol. God didn't double-create his creations, he was just going back and summarizing that part of it to how that he did indeed create the Earth before any life was created onto it.
Aaron
You are struggling I see, but what shall I say?
I gave the correct defined information that would unlock the truth.. How so?
Adam = man Eth HaAdam = Gods chosen blood line to Virgin Mary which is the 8th day creation.
Adam man is the the 6th day.
Yes I know how the churches teach that the bible is only repeating. But it is incorrect how churches are teaching that. A poor scholar will say what the traditions of men say.
I want to point out something to you and this is going to sting a bit.. I am sorry upfront but I am going to make a very hard statement that should make you think about what you are saying...
Your words "The original texts and the translated texts" is something that you keep saying over and over to all threads of any question that you have. Sorry it is miss leading and incorrect in itself. How so?
Most of the translated texts of all translations have mistakes in them. Furthermore, even in the original translated King James 1611 version the "scribes" tell us the reader in the front of the book that they know they made mistakes in translating. So, you have just been caught with speaking some un-truths about what you think is the "The original texts and the translated texts" being the same. Your studies are lacking and your words have proven it so. Again, I am sorry to have to point this out to you, but you have opened that door yourself in that area. We all can see it..
I hope I did not offend, I know you want to make a stance on what you believe is truth of what is written in the manuscripts and in any bible that you are using, but your words show me personally that you are kind of not being honest with yourself.
Please read what I have just said very carefully, I am NOT trying to offend, but I am hoping that I can get you excited enough to do your homework and seek the Word in more passion. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:38 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Timing...from another perspective.
I hope you don't mind OP.
THE SEAL JUDGMENTS (tribulation)
(Described in Revelation 6:1-17 and 8:1-6, Matthew 24
and the book of Daniel and elsewhere.
1st Seal Covenant with many
A peace deal declared in Israel.
It will be a false peace.
(Rev 6:1-2) (Mat 24)
2nd Seal - War
(Rev 6:3-4) (Mat 24)
3rs Seal - Famine
(Rev 6:5-6) (Mat 24)
4th Seal - Death
(Rev 6:7-8) (Mat 24)
During the Seal Judgments, The Lord Jesus reveals
that the following event will take place; a sign.
Mathhew 24
15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of
desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the
holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand:)
again...
2 Thessalonians 2:3 "Let no man deceive you by any means:
for that day ((The Day of The Lord, 6th Seal)) shall not
come, except there come a falling away first, and that man
of sin be revealed, the son of perdition," "Who opposeth
and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that
is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the Temple of
God, shewing himself that he is God."
Satan, the son of perdition, the man of sin will show
himself right here on earth, and Satan will sit in the
temple where Jesus Christ will build His temple, and
deceive the entire world into thinking that this filthy
liar Satan is Jesus Christ, is God. The entire world will
believe that Satan is God and worship him above all other
things and gods of the nations of the world. It is going to
happen, and Paul warns you not to be deceived by any means.
Not by your pastor and his fly away theories, not by your
government, or even your parents.
The whole world will worship the Beast
When Satan comes as the beast he will have so much power
and authority that the whole world will marvel.
“And all the world marveled and followed the beast.”
Revelation 13:3
"Almost" everyone in the world will worship the beast.
5th Seal - Believers martyred (Rev 6:9-11)
A few people will choose to worship the Lamb instead of the
beast. Jesus is called the Lamb and Satan is called the
beast. The people who choose to worship the Lamb will have
their names written in the Lamb’s book of life. Everyone
else will worship the beast.
“All who dwell on the earth will worship him, whose names
have not been written in the Book of Life of the Lamb slain
from the foundation of the world.” Revelation 13:8
6th Seal - That Day, The sign; earthquake, sun darkened
Believers are raptured. (Rev 6:12-17) (Mat 24:29-31)
Sealing of God's servants (Israel)(Rev 7:3)
The time of the gentile ends.
God turns to Israel.
7th Seal - The trumpet judgments begin (Rev 8:1-6)
God turns to Israel.
THE TRUMPET JUDGMENTS
(Described in Revelation 8:7- 9:21 and Rev 10:7)
THE BOWL JUDGMENTS (God’s wrath)
(Described in Revelation Chapter 16)
You were doing fine until you mentioned about the 6th trump and the 6th seal, and the 6th vile. I know you didn't say all of them, just pointing out something for ya...
Since Satan comes at the 666, we need to be careful on how we write our words to define the gathering back to Christ.
2 Thess. says that the man of sin must be revealed first before Christ.... Again 666 is his time frame.
And Christ told us that also. Plus Paul tells us when Christ comes if you handle on the trumps you will know when Christ comes.
1 Corinthians 15:51-52... Christ said that He had shorten Satan's time on earth, again Rev. 9:5 and 9:10 tells us the time that was shortened.
Satan comes first, then we gather back to Christ at the Last Trump which is number 7 as Paul tells ya in
1 Corinthians 15:51 and 52....
The way you presented that info it does not come out correctly in my mind (part about gathering back to Christ)... Sorry..
I'm not understanding what you mean by the time-frame of 666 though. Do you mean that Satan would be coming at the 6th Seal, and the 6th Trumpet, and the 6th Vial/Bowl ? I'm not really sure how that would be possible, because Satan would have to be coming during 3 different times. What is your time-frame for 666 ?
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
Wow, I never heard anyone express themselves in a question about the 666 info like you have. What I mean by this is your words "because Satan would have to be coming during 3 different times"....
Where and how did you come to that conclusion on anything I posted?
Your question is, "What is your time-frame for 666 ?"
I do not have a time-frame, God is in control, and I am not God. I gave what I have learned and that is all. Your question is an open ended question and puts me in the positions of being God and I am not.
All I can tell you from my studies is that Satan will show up in the Months of the end of April and or May of what year I do not know. ( I bet that opens a can of worms for most), meaning there will be tons of questions to have me validate that statement..
It all is based on what Christ said in Mat. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21, plus the word "LOCUST" which is not bugss in the case written in Rev. chapter 9. What is the season of the Locust? When you find that out, you will find out the symbolics of why the word Locust was using in Rev. which defines the season.
Christ said in Mark 13:18"And pray ye that your flight be not int the winter."
That is a metaphor and a figure of speech meaning" pray that you are not harvested out of season." (Totally meaning, pray that you do not get deceived by Satan and his fallen angels.)
To follow up on that read further done in Mark13 and read the harvest season info and see how it is spoken of by Christ. And it goes like this....
Mark 13:28" Now learn the parable of the fig tree: When her branch is yet tender, and putteth forth leaves, ye know that "SUMMER" is near."
Again, a metaphor or figure of speech meaning" you know it is almost time for me to come the harvesting.
Winter is harvested out of season, Summer is harvesting in season.
It also tells us of the time of 1948 and I hope I do not have to go into all of that. If any of you don't understand what happened in that year, then sorry, I don't have time to teach the "first level" of what were all should know what happened that year. Not being sarcastic or anything, but a bit puzzled at the lack of knowledge that some have, yet project that they know the rest of us are wrong... |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:45 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Oh yes, I do know them, and I understand exactly what you're saying. Their rule is almost up, and then the Bible says that they will bow down and lick the dust at our feet.
Bravo! Who are you? You have your act together and I like that... IN other words, you have done you homework.... Again, Bravo!
Oh gosh, I still have a lot to learn. lol... Wingedlion taught me a lot of this. I mean ultimately, it was the Holy Spirit, but He used Wingedlion to answer a lot of questions I had.
I'll have to look more at what you're talking about the 6th and 8th day man. I'm not sure I agree with that, but I'll pray about it.
I gave you the tools to go do research on it the 6th day and th 8th day creation, by saying Adam ( 6th day man) and Eth HaAdam (8th day creation)... The key is those two words. (Adam and Eth HaAdam) I can promise you when you meet a real scholar they will be able to lead you to that info... In other words, I would hope that it excites you to try and learn to read the "manuscripts" for yourself...
I started to read them myself because of all the traditions of men and one church said this, and the next would say that, and then I would talk to some so called prophet and he would say one thing and then another one would say another thing...
So, yea, I scratch out each word myself... But I do have a mentor which read and writes 28 different languages which has helped me greatly... lol
Blessing.
Little Star, are you saying that the Bible doesn't speak of his works on the 8th Day because the only the manuscripts speak of it ? The original texts and the translated texts are only different in the respect that the meanings of the words could be somewhat different, but however, if there was something about the 8th Day, certainly there are not too many ways or manners in which to state about an 8th Day, and don't you think man would have spoken about it ? Plus, God was repeating Himself regarding the creating of man and then breathing the life into his nostrils, but it wasn't a totally separate creation, that just wouldn't make any sense for Him to have done that. He was saying how God had made the Earth before any plants of herbs existed, but then he drew-up a mist to water the plants and made man from the dust of the Earth and breathed life into his nostrils. I mean, with that logic, then that means that he created the plant-life twice also, lol. God didn't double-create his creations, he was just going back and summarizing that part of it to how that he did indeed create the Earth before any life was created onto it.
Aaron
I must confess something. I was reading your words here and I am glad I did not take a sip of coffee at that time because I busted a gut.. lol
What I mean is this statement"The original texts and the translated texts are only different in the respect that the meanings of the words could be somewhat different, but however, if there was something about the 8th Day, certainly there are not too many ways or manners in which to state about an 8th Day, and don't you think man would have spoken about it ?"
Question? How old are you?
You are asking me what I think man would say? Don't ask me anything about men of this earth. The corruptions, lack of love, and lack of wisdom is over whelming at times.
I am not in charge of what people think.. And please stop using the words "original texts and the translated texts " because it is quite obvious that you have no knowledge of what the original text say, in any of the languages that we have found today.. Speak honestly with me and I will not point out these things that you are saying. It does not make me or anyone believe that you have any knowledge what so ever in what the manuscripts say or don't say. I validate my thoughts by giving "key" words that are found in the manuscripts and anyone with some smarts can go validate what I have said on any forum or any teachings by the way of the words that I have posted or said. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:52 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Little Star, I'm sorry if I missed it in this thread, but do you agree with the OP's interpretation that the 7th seal was opened on November 2008 and that in 962 days from now, Jesus Christ will return?
NO, I do not... And it does not matter.
Why?
Because I know that when Satan comes with his little monsters that we will only have 5 months left at that time.
No, the 7th seal has not been opened!
Too many prophets and not enough study for themselves.
Once again, are you saying that the tribulation-period will only be lasting for 5 months ?
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
First thing is that there is more than one trib.. Oh my, I said something that you can't see...
Here let me help you a bit..
Christ said in Mark 13:24"But in those days, "AFTER THAT TRIBUTLATION,(NOTE: That is the first trib and pay attention to what Christ says next)the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,
25" And the 'STARS OF HEAVEN SHALL FALL' (bingo, same thing John writes about in the book of Rev. 6:13, WHICH I HAVE ALREADY STATED THE MEANING OF STARS IN AN UPPER POSTING)now to continue the verse;;;and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken..."
The problem is that most get caught up in traditions of men and by doing so, they make void Christ very own teachings and it is why I keep saying over and over, "listen to Christ, not some man, NOT EVEN ME". Notice I included myself in the word man? I want you to listen to Christ and not some mans teachings. You should of picked up on that also by now.
Yes, there is going to be more than one trib... Sorry folks, not my thoughts, but it is correct. When Christ points out in Mark 13 the first trib, the second trib comes when Satan is here de facto.. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:54 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Nephilim are mixed not foretold as the fullness of the seed of Abraham. The fullness of the scattering of the seed of Abraham who would lose their identity in the scattering because of the curse. To renew their identity in the Lamb given for remission of sin but that one as King to bring those redeemed into the Second Exodus. Many are redeemed even of the nations and those who were the rebellious of Yisrael whose seed has mixed with the whole world. Messiah was given for the whole world but as Messiah only knows his lost sheep and will call out to each one of them. That Living Word will call to his own and when he is done the end will come of their Bondage but then the Regathering and the Restoration of all things. As lawful and perfectly given in the Heart of Messiah by those written words of Torah/"Law" that he is being. Any other than the interpretation of Messiah of that Law/Torah of his Being is Iniquity and Lawlessness.
A/C, but why did Jesus call that Canaanite gentile woman a "dog" who would eat the crumbs that fall from the master's table? Jesus was referring to the "Nephilim" who will bow down and lick the dust at our feet (100% humans). And read my signature line down below about bruising their head. But yet, when we rule over them eventually, instead of them ruling over us now, shall we not show them mercy and compassion if they are truly repentant, just as God has shown us? God requires mercy, not sacrifice.
ThreshingSword, I wasn't sure if you were meaning that the Nephilim were 100% humans, or if you were meaning likcing the dust at our feet and the our being the 100% humans.
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
Well wait a min. didn't you use the words" manuscripts and translations in your upper posts?
Now you are questioning ThreshingSword's words and want him to define what he has said?
Now I am beginning to understand how gentle I must be with you... |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:57 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
I want to share with you something that Christ said.
Mark 13:11" But when they shall lead you and deliver you up, take no thought before hand what ye shall speak, neither do ye premeditate: but what so ever shall be given you in that hour (hour of temptation when Satan is here), that speak ye: for it is not ye that speak, but the Holy Spirit."
God has chosen 7000 to stand against the 7000 bad angels and Satan.
Romans 11:4 tells of those 7000 and the second witness verse to that is found in 1 Kings 19:18.
That is what Christ is talking about in Mark 13:11...
While the whole world will be worshiping Satan, those 7000 will not.
The spiritual slumber is in full effect and most people do not even see it..
I am ready.. I will put it simply, I am ready for that monster and his little locust army..
I see in those Scriptures whereby it speaks of the 7,000 that have not bowed-down to Baal, but where does it speak of the 7,000 fallen-angels at ?
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
I gave the answer to this already. Go back and read them above postings of mine...
See if you can find the words "7000 men" in the book of Rev., and when you do, I hope you don't come back and say "It it says men and they are not angels" because it will show you don't have any idea of what is being said in the manuscripts in that verse and the meaning of "men" at that point... |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 11:59 AM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Because I know that when Satan comes with his little monsters that we will only have 5 months left at that time.
Do you believe that these 'monsters' will come in the form of aliens? Presenting themselves as beings from another world that are really demonic? If I weren't already a believer, that would scare me enough to get on my knees & give my entire self to God.
They will not be presenting themselves as being from another world - rather satan (anti-christ, instead of Jesus) will be proclaiming to be the Messiah (Jesus)returned.
Satan's followers and also himself will look like us - not scary-looking monsters. But make no mistake, they are here to deceive and devour. (not literally devour)
They are coming to deceive not scare us.
That is correct C. Girl. As I said, I must be a little more careful of my wording. Words can and do make a difference. lol
Yep, these angels will be good lookers too. And they will be playing the part of being Jesus.
Howdee, Little Star
From reading this thread - looks like you have been busy. LOL
I remember when I first realized we are the 'angels' incarnate. It was when I read this in Revelation-
Rev 22:9 .......... for I am thy fellowservant, and of thy brethren the prophets, and of them which keep the sayings of this book: worship God.
The angel tells John not to kneel before him because "for I am your fellow servant, and of your brethren the prophets, and of those who keep the words of this book. Worship God." This is saying that I am your servant of the prophets, and the servant of those whom keep the words of this book, but he isn't saying that he IS John in spirit-form. You might think that it says this since it says I am your servant and of the prophets, so as to be seeming to be saying that he is his servant and he is of his brethren the prophets. We have got to be very incredibly careful when it comes to those thingz, and we should be looking at the original languages of the Bible, and not just the Bibles from the English language.
Aaron Quoting: MuzicSoulWorldly
Your expressions are always taken as supposition by me. You question everyone, and yet you seem to have all the answers already figured out. Why ask any questions if you come back with what you "think" is correct? |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:14 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
verse 3.
"Let no man deceive you by any means for that day shall not come except there be a falling away first and that man of sin be revealed the son of perdition.
verse 4...Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God or that is worshipped so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God showing himself that he is God.
Major, Major, Major... you're quoting the one verse up above that disputes your pet pretrib rapture doctrine! I highlighted in bold the part that says this. I know what a shocker it is to see that there's no pretrib rapture, but I assure you, there is none.
But shouldn't we all desire nothing but the truth, no matter what doctrinal differences we have to lay aside? Believe me, I've had to lay aside many. Who cares if you have to humble yourself and retract your previously held prophecy beliefs if what you get in exchange for that is the truth? In fact, I disagree with Little Star that there will be a NWO right up until the Lord's coming, but I'm willing to listen to him prove to me through scripture that this isn't so (and the Holy Spirit).
NOPE. I do not have a "pet Rapture doctrine. I just quote from the Bible what it says.
What you highlited disproves nothing what so ever my friend.
The word "apostasy" means "a standing away from". In this sense it is a "falling away". Leaving the truth, witdrawing or defection from the truth. It may be the result of many things. False teachers (Matt, 24:11), temptation (Luke 8:13); worldliness (2 Tim. 4:4), inadequate knowledge of Christ (1 John 2:19), moral collapse ( Heb. 6:4-6).
While there are those in every generation who fall away, this will be a general condition prior to the revelation of the A/C.
And as for Scripture, I am still waiting for you to list yours my friend on why there is NOT a Rapture.
Major, I do believe that the bride of Christ will be gathered unto Him in the "clouds" one day. We only have a dispute as to the timing of that event. Quoting: ThreshingSword
Your words show that you are a babe in scriptures. Sorry, let me show you something about the word "clouds" and how it is a "GREEK" SLANG WORD being used through out the Word in the New Testie.
Go with me to the writer of 1 Thess. which is Paul and see how he uses the word "clouds"...
Go to Hebrews chapter 12:1 and I quote it" Where fore seeing we also are compassed about with great a "CLOUD OF WITNESSES", let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
Now did you see the same word "cloud" being used by the same person who wrote 1Thess and 2 Thess letter?
The Greek figure of speech is still used today even in the US. Here is the same word being used today by the US folks,,,, " I saw a cloud of locust"..
What does that mean to us? It means a large body of bunches or a whole lot of them...
The American English is filled with many different languages and expressions and it is why many people struggle with it.
So, the same word "cloud" in 1 Thess.4:17 has the same meaning as in Heb. 12:1 which again is a Greek slang word for meaning a whole lot of people...
Now want another place and hey lets use someone who was there at about the same time as Paul using the same word cloud..
Jude 12" These are spots in your feast of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear; "CLOUDS" they are without "WATER" (no spiritual truth, like in reference to the latter day rain spoken of in Zec. 10:1 is the meaning of water here), carried about the winds(spiritually deader than a hammer, listening to everyone but the Holy Spirit);Trees(people are trees symbolically, and by their fruits you shall know them,) whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead(spiritual dead in heaven following Satan, and now fleshly dead spiritually); plucked up by the roots."
So we see many symbolics and Greek slang there in that verse in Jude 12.
My point is that Clouds in that verse means. "large body of humans or people"...
Think about it for a moment if you don't get it..
Clouds is made up of water, but there you see clouds without water..
I hope this helps not only you, but many who read my postings in knowing that when I say "There is hidden manna in the Word given by Christ" it is the truth..
So in conclusion 1 Thess. 4:17 is talking about people as a large group, not flying up into some clouds...
Margret McDonald had an evil spirit overcome here in 1830 while she was in an insane facility and two Catholic priest heard her say those things about 1 Thess. 4:17 and they were short on folks coming to their churches. They used what she had said as a way to get people back into the churches. It went like wild fire and migrated to the US later.
On her death bed she confessed it came from an evil spirit. Bill and John her brothers were there also.
It is all documented in the Catholic doctrines. There is a book out by Dave McPherson ( I think that is how you spell his last name) that helps anyone interested in that to back trace everything that he presents. It is a very good book too on the subject of gathering back to the Lord and the timing..
Last Edited by Little Star on 10/11/2009 at 12:40 PM |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:21 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
The seals, bowls, and vials all come AFTER THE RAPTURE.
There is no Biblical way around this friends. NONE!!!
As far as someone knowing what is included in the "THUNDERS", they are very, very mis-informed.
Read the verse for your self.
Rev. 10:4
"And when the seven "thunders" had uttered their voices, I was about to write, and I heard a voice from heaven saying unto me; SEAL UP THOSE SAYINGS WHICH THE SEVEN THUNDERS UTTERED AND WRITE THEM NOT".
There is no record of what they said!! NONE!!
Now, for one to say today that he knows what they are, is to say that they are more important than the "disciple who Jesus loved the most", an Apostle and the one who wrote more about the eternal past and eternal future of God than anyone else of all the Scriptures. Sorry friends, I aint buying that one.
Once again people are putting endless amountz of restrictionz upon God. Even though John did not write down the thingz which the 7 thunders had uttered, does that mean that God could not reveal those thunders when it'z time to, such as nearer to the time when the Thunders would actually be rumbling for real ? So much of Biblical prophesy is dependent upon the revealing of the understanding of the prophecies before they occur, because otherwise, if they aren't even understood before-hand, then the prophecies couldn't really be proven to have happened if we don't understand them in the first place. Without revelations from God, there would be no need for His Church or for His prophets or even for His prophecyz themselves. His prophecyz hinge upon their meaningz becoming revealed before they actually occur.
If you don't mind my asking you, whom was the Apostle which you were speaking of in your response above ?
Aaron
Yes. That is exactly what I am saying.
We have the Revelation of God, it is His Word the Bible.
Since there is no such Biblical thing today as prophets, your thought is actually irrelalent.
1 Corth. 13:8-9
"Love never fails, but where there be prophesies, they will fail, where there be tongues they shall cease, where there be knowledge it shall vanish.
9) For we know in part and we prophesy in part.
10) But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away with."
That perfect one (neuter in the Greek) refers to a thing and the only persfrst thing to ever be on the earth is the Bible, the perfect Word of God. Yes Jesus was perfect but He was a man not a thing as the Greek point to.
So we have the Bible. It is complete. It replaces PROPHECIS, TONGUES AND KNOWLEDGE. Do not take my word for this, do some homework. Study to show yourself approved of God.
That Apostle of course was John.Now you should have know that my friend. STUDY THE BOOK and do not liosten so much to "prophets".
Then..........the only thing that proves Biblical prophech is TIME.
Then another thing. How many of these so called "prophetts" today predict something that does not happen????
EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM?
Now let me ask you this question. Why are they still alive. The Bible says that a prophet who predicts a wrong thing is false and he is to be put to death.
Deut. 18:20 Quoting: Major 574846
You are 100% correct ( Major ) in what you have said about todays prophets.
The reason I always scoff at todays prophets is because I know the Word well enough to know they are completely power playing and in full pride of themselves.
I can sum it all up in one name in the bible found in Eze. chapter 8....Jaazaniah = which means " I heard from God today".. And Jaazaniah did not hear from God, God loathed him for saying God spoke with Zaazaniah and He(God) did not.
The clouds do not fear God...If you read my upper post you understand symbolically(figure of speech) what I just said.
Last Edited by Little Star on 10/11/2009 at 12:41 PM |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:26 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
MAJOR, the notion that prophecy or prophets are done away with now that we have the Bible is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS!
First of all, the Greek word in 1 Cr 13:10 is "teleios," and it means this:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
a) consummate human integrity and virtue
b) of men
1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
So you see up above, it can refer to an actual person.
Secondly, I'll prove it by quoting 1 Corinthians 2:6, which uses that SAME Greek word "teleios," and you will see there that it IS talking about people:
"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:" Quoting: ThreshingSword
Major is quite correct in what he has stated about the prophets.
You on the other hand are speaking and using "traditions of men" scenarios to make points on things you have not studied enough to understand yet. Sorry, but I have never ever emailed, and maybe once chatted on once or twice posted with Major in the past which means that since we both are different people, not knowing each other, yet came to the same conclusion says a lot about what we have uncovered..
Hats off to you Major...!
Last Edited by Little Star on 10/11/2009 at 12:32 PM |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:31 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
As I mentioned before, I know of only 3 people that come to glp that understood my play on my avatar name choice.
And Country Girl is one of them...
She is sealed by God, I have never met her, and I don't email her, and I have no idea where she lives. But she is sealed and how I know is that she can bring forth the same information that I have, and sometimes even better. I am better in person than in typing on the net. My English is a bit poor so I have to find words that I can spell and write to make things clear as I can. I hope this helps you understand the value of metaphors, Hebraism, and figures of speech and learning them. There is lots of hidden manna that gets revealed when you get a handle on those things.
Again, that is why I mentioned Eccl. chapter 12 to all of you. Most here have no idea what it is talking about in that chapter. I have in the past even challenged someone who was giving me a hard time to validate it for us. And you should of read some of the response that we all read at that time. Funny and way off base.
Now, I made these statements and they are not of pride and of boasting, so please do not slam me to the floor. Just take what I have given and go verify. I teach, and my number one I do is teach others how to verify. And by doing so, I tell them that when they get to the point of learning on their own, I get to step aside and they can have a one on one with God in His Word without me being the middle man like most pastors like to be. I am not your Shepherd, I am an elect and a humble servant to all.
Accordiong to the Bible, all who come to Christ are SEALED..Ephesians 1:13
"IN whom ye also trusted after ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation in whom after that you believed you were SEALED with that Holy Spirit of promise".
All who come to Christ are SEALED darlin. Quoting: Major 574846
First off, I am not a woman.. lol, but you can call me darlin if ya want...lol
Okay I hear what you are saying, but, my point which I poorly posted is this..
Just as Christ says "some will come to Him and say they loved Him, He will reject them." Are they sealed or not sealed?
Sealing means they love the Lord, love one and another, and also this.... They will know the plan of God and understand His Word and let God use them...
There are also sealing chapters... I quote them as Mat. 24, Mark 13, and Luke 21.. Christ does the sealing there....
Hope that helps ya understand where I am coming from..
Plus in Rev. Christ finds fault with 5 of the 7 churches. I guess those 5 churches did not get sealed... Want to go deeper we can do that if you wish for the fullness of the meaning of sealing...
But I agree what you said About Eph. and I should of posted that with what I said to make my points a bit clearer.. I hope this helps you understand where I am coming from... |
| ThreshingSword
User ID: 762510
10/11/2009 12:31 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Major, I do believe that the bride of Christ will be gathered unto Him in the "clouds" one day. We only have a dispute as to the timing of that event.
Your words show that you are a babe in scriptures. Sorry, let me show you something about the word "clouds" and how it is a "GREEK" SLANG WORD being used through out the Word.
Go with me to the writer of 1 Thess. which is Paul and see how he uses the word "clouds"...
Go to Hebrews chapter 12:1 and I quote it" Where fore seeing we also are compassed about with great a "CLOUD OF WITNESSES", let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
Now did you see the same word "cloud" being used by the same person who wrote 1Thess and 2 Thess letter?
The Greek figure of speech is still used today even in the US. Here is the same word being used today by the US folks,,,, " I saw a cloud of locust"..
What does that mean to us? It means a large body of bunches or a whole lot of them...
The American English is filled with many different languages and expressions and it is why many people struggle with it.
So, the same word "cloud" in 1 Thess.4:17 has the same meaning as in Heb. 12:1 which again is a Greek slang word for meaning a whole lot of people...
Now want another place and hey lets use someone who was there at about the same time as Paul using the same word cloud..
Jude 12" These are spots in your feast of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear; "CLOUDS" they are without "WATER" (no spiritual truth, like in reference to the latter day rain spoken of in Zec. 10:1 is the meaning of water here), carried about the winds(spiritually deader than a hammer, listening to everyone but the Holy Spirit);Trees(people are trees symbolically, and by their fruits you shall know them,) whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead(spiritual dead in heaven following Satan, and now fleshly dead spiritually); plucked up by the roots."
So we see many symbolics and Greek slang there in that verse in Jude 12.
My point is that Clouds in that verse means. "large body of humans or people"...
Think about it for a moment if you don't get it..
Clouds is made up of water, but there you see clouds without water..
I hope this helps not only you, but many who read my postings in knowing that when I say "There is hidden manna in the Word given by Christ" it is the truth.. Quoting: Little Star
I'm sorry, but respectfully, it is you who are wrong. If you study the Greek words behind the word "cloud" used in Hebrews 12:1 versus the word "clouds" used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, you will find that they mean completely different things. I'll prove it.
Hebrews 12:1, which says, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," the word "cloud" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3509, nephos, which means:
1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng
a) used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapour obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapour with some form or shape
b) a cloud in the sky
Whereas, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord," the word "clouds" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3507, nephelē, which means this:
1) a cloud
a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
So anyone can see, from comparing the two different Greek words behind the words "cloud" and "clouds," that they are wholly different. In fact, the clouds that we will be caught up in to meet the Lord in the air, the Greek meaning says it is "used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness," which means that it is referring to the Lord's space craft or whatever kind of supernatural vehicle He travels in.
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim control the world now, but not for long!
yelk3@live.com |
| ThreshingSword
User ID: 762510
10/11/2009 12:38 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
MAJOR, the notion that prophecy or prophets are done away with now that we have the Bible is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS!
First of all, the Greek word in 1 Cr 13:10 is "teleios," and it means this:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
a) consummate human integrity and virtue
b) of men
1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
So you see up above, it can refer to an actual person.
Secondly, I'll prove it by quoting 1 Corinthians 2:6, which uses that SAME Greek word "teleios," and you will see there that it IS talking about people:
"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:"
Major is quite correct in what he has stated about the prophets.
You on the other hand are speaking and using "traditions of men" scenarios to make points on things you have not studied enough to understand yet. Sorry, but I have never ever emailed, and maybe once chatted on once or twice posted with Major in the past which means that since we both are different people, not knowing each other, yet came to the same conclusion says a lot about what we have uncovered..
Hats off to you Major...! Quoting: Little Star
No, Little Star, I am researching the meaning of the Greek words in the Bible and merely pointing out what it says. So you are saying that you do not agree with the Strong's Concordance definition of the word "teleios" and that it doesn't mean men or full grown, adult, of full age, mature? That sounds to me like what you are saying, that you don't agree with the Greek definition of that word as Strong's defines it. I thought that you recommended using a Strong's Concordance to study scripture. So which is it, don't use a Strong's or use a Strong's?
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim control the world now, but not for long!
yelk3@live.com |
| Country Girl nli
User ID: 791657
10/11/2009 12:43 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Major, I do believe that the bride of Christ will be gathered unto Him in the "clouds" one day. We only have a dispute as to the timing of that event.
Your words show that you are a babe in scriptures. Sorry, let me show you something about the word "clouds" and how it is a "GREEK" SLANG WORD being used through out the Word.
Go with me to the writer of 1 Thess. which is Paul and see how he uses the word "clouds"...
Go to Hebrews chapter 12:1 and I quote it" Where fore seeing we also are compassed about with great a "CLOUD OF WITNESSES", let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
Now did you see the same word "cloud" being used by the same person who wrote 1Thess and 2 Thess letter?
The Greek figure of speech is still used today even in the US. Here is the same word being used today by the US folks,,,, " I saw a cloud of locust"..
What does that mean to us? It means a large body of bunches or a whole lot of them...
The American English is filled with many different languages and expressions and it is why many people struggle with it.
So, the same word "cloud" in 1 Thess.4:17 has the same meaning as in Heb. 12:1 which again is a Greek slang word for meaning a whole lot of people...
Now want another place and hey lets use someone who was there at about the same time as Paul using the same word cloud..
Jude 12" These are spots in your feast of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear; "CLOUDS" they are without "WATER" (no spiritual truth, like in reference to the latter day rain spoken of in Zec. 10:1 is the meaning of water here), carried about the winds(spiritually deader than a hammer, listening to everyone but the Holy Spirit);Trees(people are trees symbolically, and by their fruits you shall know them,) whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead(spiritual dead in heaven following Satan, and now fleshly dead spiritually); plucked up by the roots."
So we see many symbolics and Greek slang there in that verse in Jude 12.
My point is that Clouds in that verse means. "large body of humans or people"...
Think about it for a moment if you don't get it..
Clouds is made up of water, but there you see clouds without water..
I hope this helps not only you, but many who read my postings in knowing that when I say "There is hidden manna in the Word given by Christ" it is the truth..
I'm sorry, but respectfully, it is you who are wrong. If you study the Greek words behind the word "cloud" used in Hebrews 12:1 versus the word "clouds" used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, you will find that they mean completely different things. I'll prove it.
Hebrews 12:1, which says, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," the word "cloud" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3509, nephos, which means:
1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng
a) used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapour obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapour with some form or shape
b) a cloud in the sky
Whereas, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord," the word "clouds" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3507, nephelē, which means this:
1) a cloud
a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
So anyone can see, from comparing the two different Greek words behind the words "cloud" and "clouds," that they are wholly different. In fact, the clouds that we will be caught up in to meet the Lord in the air, the Greek meaning says it is "used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness," which means that it is referring to the Lord's space craft or whatever kind of supernatural vehicle He travels in. Quoting: ThreshingSword
Don't know what Strong's you are using but mine says this:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G3507
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
As you can see - they ARE the same. |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:47 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Major, I do believe that the bride of Christ will be gathered unto Him in the "clouds" one day. We only have a dispute as to the timing of that event.
Your words show that you are a babe in scriptures. Sorry, let me show you something about the word "clouds" and how it is a "GREEK" SLANG WORD being used through out the Word.
Go with me to the writer of 1 Thess. which is Paul and see how he uses the word "clouds"...
Go to Hebrews chapter 12:1 and I quote it" Where fore seeing we also are compassed about with great a "CLOUD OF WITNESSES", let us lay aside every weight and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us."
Now did you see the same word "cloud" being used by the same person who wrote 1Thess and 2 Thess letter?
The Greek figure of speech is still used today even in the US. Here is the same word being used today by the US folks,,,, " I saw a cloud of locust"..
What does that mean to us? It means a large body of bunches or a whole lot of them...
The American English is filled with many different languages and expressions and it is why many people struggle with it.
So, the same word "cloud" in 1 Thess.4:17 has the same meaning as in Heb. 12:1 which again is a Greek slang word for meaning a whole lot of people...
Now want another place and hey lets use someone who was there at about the same time as Paul using the same word cloud..
Jude 12" These are spots in your feast of charity, when they feast with you, feeding themselves without fear; "CLOUDS" they are without "WATER" (no spiritual truth, like in reference to the latter day rain spoken of in Zec. 10:1 is the meaning of water here), carried about the winds(spiritually deader than a hammer, listening to everyone but the Holy Spirit);Trees(people are trees symbolically, and by their fruits you shall know them,) whose fruit withereth, without fruit, twice dead(spiritual dead in heaven following Satan, and now fleshly dead spiritually); plucked up by the roots."
So we see many symbolics and Greek slang there in that verse in Jude 12.
My point is that Clouds in that verse means. "large body of humans or people"...
Think about it for a moment if you don't get it..
Clouds is made up of water, but there you see clouds without water..
I hope this helps not only you, but many who read my postings in knowing that when I say "There is hidden manna in the Word given by Christ" it is the truth..
I'm sorry, but respectfully, it is you who are wrong. If you study the Greek words behind the word "cloud" used in Hebrews 12:1 versus the word "clouds" used in 1 Thessalonians 4:17, you will find that they mean completely different things. I'll prove it.
Hebrews 12:1, which says, "Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us," the word "cloud" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3509, nephos, which means:
1) a cloud, a large dense multitude, a throng
a) used to denote a great shapeless collection of vapour obscuring the heavens as opposed to a particular and definite masses of vapour with some form or shape
b) a cloud in the sky
Whereas, 1 Thessalonians 4:17, which says, "Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord," the word "clouds" in that verse is linked with Strong's #3507, nephelē, which means this:
1) a cloud
a) used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness
So anyone can see, from comparing the two different Greek words behind the words "cloud" and "clouds," that they are wholly different. In fact, the clouds that we will be caught up in to meet the Lord in the air, the Greek meaning says it is "used of the cloud which led the Israelites in the wilderness," which means that it is referring to the Lord's space craft or whatever kind of supernatural vehicle He travels in.
Don't know what Strong's you are using but mine says this:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G3507
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
As you can see - they ARE the same. Quoting: Country Girl nli 791657
Thanks Country Girl, you posted the same as I would have.
Many do not have a handle on the Strongs and how to properly get the correct definitions of words. I see it day in and day out..
Again, I said Paul used it as a street Greek slang word, and it went right over his head.. lol |
| Little Star
User ID: 687974
10/11/2009 12:52 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
MAJOR, the notion that prophecy or prophets are done away with now that we have the Bible is absolutely PREPOSTEROUS!
First of all, the Greek word in 1 Cr 13:10 is "teleios," and it means this:
1) brought to its end, finished
2) wanting nothing necessary to completeness
3) perfect
4) that which is perfect
a) consummate human integrity and virtue
b) of men
1) full grown, adult, of full age, mature
So you see up above, it can refer to an actual person.
Secondly, I'll prove it by quoting 1 Corinthians 2:6, which uses that SAME Greek word "teleios," and you will see there that it IS talking about people:
"Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:"
Major is quite correct in what he has stated about the prophets.
You on the other hand are speaking and using "traditions of men" scenarios to make points on things you have not studied enough to understand yet. Sorry, but I have never ever emailed, and maybe once chatted on once or twice posted with Major in the past which means that since we both are different people, not knowing each other, yet came to the same conclusion says a lot about what we have uncovered..
Hats off to you Major...!
No, Little Star, I am researching the meaning of the Greek words in the Bible and merely pointing out what it says. So you are saying that you do not agree with the Strong's Concordance definition of the word "teleios" and that it doesn't mean men or full grown, adult, of full age, mature? That sounds to me like what you are saying, that you don't agree with the Greek definition of that word as Strong's defines it. I thought that you recommended using a Strong's Concordance to study scripture. So which is it, don't use a Strong's or use a Strong's? Quoting: ThreshingSword
Oh, I see you have been around long enough for me to suggest that you use the Strong's.. Bravo!
You would be surprised on how many "Pastors" can't get the correct meaning from the Strong's properly.. lol
I usually have to teach how to get the correct words to many that come back to me and say they can't figure out how to get the correct meanings...lol |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 791657
10/11/2009 12:55 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
>>Thanks Country Girl, you posted the same as I would have.
Many do not have a handle on the Strongs and how to properly get the correct definitions of words. I see it day in and day out..
Again, I said Paul used it as a street Greek slang word, and it went right over his head.. lol<<
You are welcome Little Star.
Thing is - if he would read over his defs again - they really do say the same thing.
And you are right, he is not taking into consideration the slang. |
| ThreshingSword
User ID: 762510
10/11/2009 12:56 PM | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
Don't know what Strong's you are using but mine says this:
Heb 12:1 Wherefore seeing we also are compassed about with so great a cloud of witnesses, let us lay aside every weight, and the sin which doth so easily beset us, and let us run with patience the race that is set before us,
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
1Th 4:17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.
G3507
nephelē
nef-el'-ay
From G3509; properly cloudiness, that is, (concretely) a cloud: - cloud.
G3509
nephos
nef'-os
Apparently a primary word; a cloud: - cloud.
As you can see - they ARE the same. Quoting: Country Girl nli 791657
[link to www.blueletterbible.org]
So are you saying one is the singular Greek and one is the plural Greek?
Also, how do you explain away the rest of the verse in Thessalonians which says "to meet the Lord in the air"? Is that supposed to be another metaphor too?
Genesis 3:15: "And I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed; it shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel." The Nephilim control the world now, but not for long!
yelk3@live.com |
| Lotus Feet 
The Paraclete, Interpreter of the law
User ID: 776324
10/11/2009 12:57 PM
 | | Re: Bible-Prophesy, Timing, 7th Seal, 1st Trumpet, 1,260 Days, 1290 Days, 1,335 Days | Quote |
1260 is a match to Revelation 12 and the wondrous sign of the woman.
Right Hand of God
[link to academysounds.blogspot.com]
[link to academysounds.blogspot.com]
The 1260 days finished in 2008. The prophecies about her have been known by knowers for at least 1260 years.
1290 days to do with the amount of years from the time that the abomination on the temple mount was set up.
LAST DAYS TIMELINE
One of the most important aspects of the Book of Daniel is the timeline and one of the most important aspects of the prophecies of Jesus is why and how the last days of the end of time will be shortened for the sake of the elect.
What time would be shortened to avoid complete destruction? The 1335 days/years mentioned by Daniel.
“The words are closed up and sealed until the time of the end. "From the time that the daily sacrifice is abolished and the abomination that causes desolation is set up, there will be 1,290 days. Blessed is the one who waits for and reaches the end of the 1,335 days.”
In Judaism a day can also represent a year and in the last chapters Daniel refers to the last days.
The Criteria of Daniel
1. The sacrifice is abolished
2. The abomination that causes desolation is set up.
3. The Timeline for the last days of the end of the age.
4. The Son of Man – The Messanic Prophet
First the sacrifice was abolished and most historians give the date of AD 685 for the building of the Mosque in Jerusalem; known as the “Dome of the Rock”. If you then add 1290 years that gives us a timeline of 1975 for the beginning of the last days of the end of age.
The biblical Hebrew word for abomination in the Daniel passage is “Shiqquwts” (Strongs 08251) and it means detestable thing or abominable thing, so we are talking about an object like a building.
There are many Churches built with domes ; the Hagia Sophia in Turkey being just one of the most significant. Daniel is not only referring to the building itself but the far reaching implications of what the building In Israel represents and co-creates. In other words the building is symbolic of the religion and its tenets.
In chapter three of the book of Revelation there is also many rebukes to the people of Turkey for turning away from God. The original word for Church meant community, so in these biblical messages it is addressing the whole community.
What happened 1290 years after the mosque was set up in a place where it did not belong?
The Last Days - 1975 - 2020
In 1975, the Christian population in Southern Lebanon was decimated, Arafat and the PLO destabalised Lebanon taking control of Southern Lebanon where Hezbollah now reside. Civil war broke out between the Lebanese government and the PLO. Cultural genocide was underway, there were 44,000 military casualties who died and 180,000 wounded. Flourishing Lebanon was reduced to rubble, the economy was destroyed and there was chaos. In the 20 years that followed 120,000 Lebanese civilian deaths (mostly Christians) died at the hands of Yasser Arafat‚s militia.[3]
The other date that Daniel mentions is 1,335.
The date of the building of the Mosque and the religion of Islam being constructed in Israel is AD685; then if you add 1,335 years we come to 2,020.
Our hypothesis is that the prophecies of Jesus Christ override and supercede the visions of Daniel because Jesus was accepted as a prophet by his Jewish follower’s. However, Jesus also reiterates the words of Daniel in relationship to the end times and mentions an abomination that causes desolation in the book of Mark. Jesus then continues with his prophecy briefing specifically related to the ‘Signs of the End Times”.
When you see 'the abomination that causes desolation' standing where it does not belong- Mark 13:14 Jesus also tells you to watch for the signs that will appear. However, few Church members understand how to recognise the signs of nature in all of its beauty and layers of existence. As Prophet Jeremiah said
“
"Even the stork in the sky knows her appointed seasons, and the dove, the swift and the thrush observe the time of their migration. But my people do not know the requirements of the LORD."Jeremiah 8:7
THIS TIME WILL BE SHORTENED
In the Gospel of Mark Jesus tells his followers that these days will be shortened for the sake of the elect in other words humanity will not have to suffer the desolation for another 45 years after 1975. This analysis is based upon a year as it is understood by the Gregorian calendar in modern times; not the Jewish calendar that was based upon 360 days in a year. My view is that the times were changed purposely to align with the prophecies of Jesus to shorten the last days.
[link to academysounds.blogspot.com]
Lotus
Last Edited by Lotus Feet on 10/11/2009 at 1:08 PM
"Blessed is the one that comes in the name of the LORD."
"I honor the place in you in which the entire Universe dwells, I honor the place in you which is of Love, of Integrity, of Wisdom and of Peace. When you are in that place in you, and I am in that place in me, we are One."
“Listen to advice and accept instruction, and in the end you will be wise. Many are the plans in a man's heart, but it is the LORD's purpose that prevails.”- Proverbs 19:20-21
THE CHRIST VISION
[link to christvisionloveunion.blogspot.com]
THE MESSENGER OF THE COVENANT
[link to www.academysounds.blogspot.com] |
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