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Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish

 
Juliet Guichon
User ID: 789608
United States
10/27/2009 12:03 PM
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Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
[link to www.theglobeandmail.com]

Juliet Guichon and Ian Mitchell


recent poll indicated that 48 per cent of Canadians might refuse the H1N1 vaccination – and that number went up to 51 per cent in an online poll reported in yesterday's Globe and Mail. These figures suggest that many Canadians are not considering the public good and have a misguided understanding of their personal interest.

According to Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, David Butler-Jones, the risk of experiencing severe side effects after receiving the shot is one in a million, compared with the 20 to 35 per cent of the population who will get sick from this pandemic flu without protection. “If every single Canadian is inoculated,” he said, “then 30 Canadians could have the potential for a severe side effect, compared to 10 million people sick, 100,000 people in hospital and 10,000 people dead.”

In the face of such numbers, Canadians should consider not just the risks to themselves, their loved ones and those with whom they come in contact, but also to our health-care system.

The public nature of Canadian health care creates both individual rights and individual responsibilities. But people can assert rights to a public resource without recognizing a responsibility toward its limited nature. This problem was brilliantly described in 1968 by ecologist Garrett Hardin in the journal Science as “the tragedy of the commons.” In this hypothetical case, individual actors operate on self-interest and ultimately destroy a shared limited resource – even when such destruction is clearly not to anyone's long-term benefit. Canadians are familiar with this tragedy because it describes the collapse of the Atlantic cod fishery.

Mass H1N1 vaccination refusal similarly might destroy (at least temporarily) our health-care system, with the threatened 100,000 people in hospital. We have a limited number of hospital beds and respirators and a finite number of people who know how best to use them. Every vaccinated person increases the likelihood that health-care professionals will be free to treat other people. What's more, inoculation reduces transmission. If unvaccinated people make health-care workers sick, they cannot look after other patients.

While the tragedy of the commons can shed light on vaccination choice, it cannot explain why an individual would choose to act against his or her self-interest. (The cod fishers who depleted the fish stocks to the detriment of future generations at least enjoyed immediate personal benefit.)

Although vaccine refusers seem motivated to avoid personal risk, they are really acting from misinformation and a one-sided view of risk. Public-health officials have tried to transfer their considerable knowledge to those fearful of vaccination. But they are up against the Internet, which makes plentiful both good and bad information.

Moreover, lay people can be confused by publicly available scientific information because they don't understand the scientific method or conversations scientists have among themselves. If a scientist were 99-per-cent certain that something is true, the scientist would reveal and discuss the 1-per-cent uncertainty. Therefore, for lay people to state that the scientist is uncertain is to misstate the conversation.

Some vaccination refusers also imply that public-health officials are in the pocket of the pharmaceutical industry. But we pay these officials to act in the public interest. And, almost certainly, their moral disposition is to act in the public interest. Moreover, the Canadian public service has systems to ensure that its officials are not directed by private or foreign interests.

If half of Canadians refuse vaccination, our limited health-care resources (people, medical supplies and physical infrastructure) will probably be depleted. How can we avoid such a tragedy?

This year's Nobel Prize in economics was awarded to Elinor Ostrom for demonstrating that if those people who are threatened by the depletion of scarce resources repeatedly interact, then they change their behaviour to safeguard the threatened commons.

Such interaction includes talking. Perhaps the gravity of the current situation requires unusually frank conversation among Canadians, such as, “My diabetic child needs ongoing access to health care that you, refusing H1N1 vaccination for yourself and your children, might block.”

It seems better to have these conversations now than next year when it might be too awful to speak about how vaccination refusal put such a strain on health-care resources that loved ones with other conditions died.

Canadians share a common plight: an influenza pandemic; an already overstretched public health-care system tending to a vulnerable and aging population; the availability of a safe and effective H1N1 vaccine; and our Chief Public Health Officer's recommendation to become vaccinated as soon as possible.

These facts require citizens to decide how best to assess personal interest and to reconcile it with the duty to protect the public good.

We are entitled to share in limited health-care resources. How much will we demand? We are invited to be vaccinated against H1N1. How will we each respond?

Juliet Guichon holds a doctorate in law and is senior associate in the Office of Medical Bioethics at the University of Calgary. Ian Mitchell is a professor of pediatrics and bioethics at the University of Calgary.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 793957
Canada
10/27/2009 12:04 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Yeah, it was posted earlier.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 795177
United States
10/27/2009 12:05 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
they forgot the part about how the gov is the one spreading h1n1 and also the fact that in past epidemics the vaccine has killed more than it has saved.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 804026
Switzerland
10/27/2009 12:05 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Yeah, it was posted earlier.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 793957

and it's still a bunch of propaganda bullshit.
mopar28m

User ID: 804117
United States
10/27/2009 12:05 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
shill
vaccinefreehealth blogspot com

The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child.

facebook.com/graphixyourway
mopar28m

User ID: 804117
United States
10/27/2009 12:06 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
they forgot the part about how the gov is the one spreading h1n1 and also the fact that in past epidemics the vaccine has killed more than it has saved.
 Quoting: aznwarlord


[link to www.whale.to]
vaccinefreehealth blogspot com

The risk far outweighs any benefit as the risk will vary from child to child.

facebook.com/graphixyourway
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 795584
Finland
10/27/2009 12:08 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
True dat
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 2886
United States
10/27/2009 12:11 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Juliet Guichon and Ian Mitchell need to report to the termination center.


Soyulent Green needs Juliet Guichon and Ian Mitchell.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803742
Canada
10/27/2009 12:12 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Lol Well then, consider me selfish.

Healthy, but selfish.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 804120
United States
10/27/2009 12:13 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Lol Well then, consider me selfish.

Healthy, but selfish.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 803742


It's selfish of you not to contract an engineered virus that was purposefully created to cripple the population.

Roll up your sleeve and join the rest of the sheeple!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803543
United Kingdom
10/27/2009 12:14 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
whatever...

[link to vaers.hhs.gov]
Guide to interpreting case report information obtained from the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)

VAERS data contains coincidental events and those truly caused by vaccines.

* More than 10 million vaccines per year are given to children less than 1 year old, usually between 2 and 6 months of age. At this age, infants are at greatest risk for certain medical adverse events, including high fevers, seizures, and sudden infant death syndrome. Some infants will experience these medical events shortly after a vaccination by coincidence.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 778753
United States
10/27/2009 12:15 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
OMG people have become so stupid if they'll run out and do something that could be personally harmful because some dumbasses call them 'selfish'. Whatever. There really is no excuse now for any adult to make an uninformed decision with all the information out there. I have sympathy for all the children being forced but none for any adult at this point.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803742
Canada
10/27/2009 12:20 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
OMG people have become so stupid if they'll run out and do something that could be personally harmful because some dumbasses call them 'selfish'. Whatever. There really is no excuse now for any adult to make an uninformed decision with all the information out there. I have sympathy for all the children being forced but none for any adult at this point.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 778753


I wonder how many actually will be swayed into taking that vaccine by that retarded article. There are so many weak people out there who place more value on society's opinion than their own intuition.

Consider me selfish all you want, I'm not taking that vaccine or any other, thanks.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 789608
United States
10/27/2009 12:29 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
i can't believe how selfish you people are.

you discust me.

the vaccine has been tested and is safe.

Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, David Butler-Jones, you have 1 in one million chance of experiencing severe side effects from the vaccine!

so whats the problem with you conspiracy theory tin foil wearing types?

you're selfish that what.

and you discust me.

you should be ashamed yourselves.

Correspondence to: Juliet Guichon, Office of Medical Bioethics, Heritage Medical Research Building, 3330 Hospital Dr. NW, Calgary AB T2N 4N1; fax 403 283-8524; [email protected]
Fhirinne

User ID: 623339
United Kingdom
10/27/2009 12:31 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
What a load of BS, just because you get a vaccine dont mean you won't get what ever it is they tell you it will protect you from..

hell as a kid i had the vaccines for many of the childhood things and I still got the dam things after the vaccine.

So it looks like 51% of people don't have their heads up their ass and can think but 49% have head up ass and drinking from the kool-aid fountain
You are the CEO of your own wellness. You need to take back your health from the disease-care system
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 804120
United States
10/27/2009 12:34 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
If 80% of the population get Herpes, you all better get it to!

That's just selfish of you not to contract Herpes or HIV!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803513
United States
10/27/2009 12:36 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
"you discust me."

The red underline is there to tell you that you have spelled disgust incorrectly.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 789608
United States
10/27/2009 12:37 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
your not only selfish, your stupid!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803513
United States
10/27/2009 12:38 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
your not only selfish, your stupid!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608



it's you're stupid
Fhirinne

User ID: 623339
United Kingdom
10/27/2009 12:42 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
i can't believe how selfish you people are.

you discust me.

the vaccine has been tested and is safe.

Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, David Butler-Jones, you have 1 in one million chance of experiencing severe side effects from the vaccine!

so whats the problem with you conspiracy theory tin foil wearing types?

you're selfish that what.

and you discust me.

you should be ashamed yourselves.

Correspondence to: Juliet Guichon, Office of Medical Bioethics, Heritage Medical Research Building, 3330 Hospital Dr. NW, Calgary AB T2N 4N1; fax 403 283-8524; [email protected]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608


For starters you are nothing but a parrot for big pharma.

Do you know it takes about 5 years to fully test a new drug or vaccine. This thing has been rushed through faster than friday clock out time

and there is no conspiracy here to be had, look up whats in the dam things there is nothing safe or healthy about Mercury or aluminium, tween80 and many other things in them so stop been a parrot and go learn the truth for yourself.
You are the CEO of your own wellness. You need to take back your health from the disease-care system
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 800931
United States
10/27/2009 12:43 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Well, i guess if 50% get it, then that should reduce their numbers on the people not getting sick by at least 50%. Of course it would be quite a bit more then that because there would be less people to pass it to. That is if they actually believed it would work. I certainly don't see the US president's daughters shoving the mist up their noses so I'm guessing it is a good idea for me not to do it.

The testing done on these vacacines has been very limited and in no means does that mean they are safe. If they were considered safe, then perhaps the government would have allowed them to be sued if they screwed up. Protecting them from that allows them to put what ever garbage they want into the public with out any way to go after them. Yup..Sounds safe to me.


Now if everyone around me will please get the vaccine. If you don't get it, I won't either. Then I'm not risking the side effects. :)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 789608
United States
10/27/2009 12:51 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
just get your damn vaccines!

stop listening to the conspiracy theories! listen to the doctors! they are telling the truth, there is no conspiracy!

don't be selfish!

don't be stupid!

take action!

fight the flu!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 804120
United States
10/27/2009 12:55 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
just get your damn vaccines!

stop listening to the conspiracy theories! listen to the doctors! they are telling the truth, there is no conspiracy!

don't be selfish!

don't be stupid!

take action!

fight the flu!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608


i agree OP, roll up your sleeves america by living without neurological problems you are being selfish

how about the millions of americans in wheelchairs?

think about how selfish it is for you to be walking while they have sacrificed their health by taking these shots for you!

lets all roll up our sleeves so no one feels left out!

government health care will take care of you once you are neurologically screwed from the vaccine!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 777114
United States
10/27/2009 12:56 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
just get your damn vaccines!

stop listening to the conspiracy theories! listen to the doctors! they are telling the truth, there is no conspiracy!

don't be selfish!

don't be stupid!

take action!

fight the flu!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608


go take your shot and stfu - pussy
Winningjob

User ID: 385114
United States
10/27/2009 12:57 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
There is support for two sides here:

IT IS SELFISH - TO GET VACCINATED.
IT IS SELFISH - To NOT GET VACCINATED.

Both points have enough theory behind them.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 804120
United States
10/27/2009 12:59 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
There is support for two sides here:

IT IS SELFISH - TO GET VACCINATED.
IT IS SELFISH - To NOT GET VACCINATED.

Both points have enough theory behind them.
 Quoting: Winningjob


IT IS SELFISH for a woman not put out on her first date and when she does forces you to wear a condom when Herpes is widespread already anyways!

Don't be selfish people, that's the message here!
Winningjob

User ID: 385114
United States
10/27/2009 01:00 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
There is support for two sides here:

IT IS SELFISH - TO GET VACCINATED.
IT IS SELFISH - To NOT GET VACCINATED.

Both points have enough theory behind them.


IT IS SELFISH for a woman not put out on her first date and when she does forces you to wear a condom when Herpes is widespread already anyways!

Don't be selfish people, that's the message here!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 804120

I am so glad I do not have a daughter or a sister. Sigh.
supergomer
User ID: 716861
United States
10/27/2009 01:00 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
Selfishness is a virtue!
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 803513
United States
10/27/2009 01:01 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
just get your damn vaccines!

stop listening to the conspiracy theories! listen to the doctors! they are telling the truth, there is no conspiracy!

don't be selfish!

don't be stupid!

take action!

fight the flu!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608



Yeah OP...listen to the doctor!

[link to www.foxnews.com]
cloud.neko

User ID: 651711
United States
10/27/2009 01:05 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
i can't believe how selfish you people are.

you discust me.

the vaccine has been tested and is safe.

Canada's Chief Public Health Officer, David Butler-Jones, you have 1 in one million chance of experiencing severe side effects from the vaccine!

so whats the problem with you conspiracy theory tin foil wearing types?

you're selfish that what.

and you discust me.

you should be ashamed yourselves.

Correspondence to: Juliet Guichon, Office of Medical Bioethics, Heritage Medical Research Building, 3330 Hospital Dr. NW, Calgary AB T2N 4N1; fax 403 283-8524; [email protected]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 789608


1: It is disgust not discust. You lose credibility when you cannot spell a simple word properly. You also lose points with improper capitalization of proper nouns such as "I" and for not capitalizing the first word of a sentence. These simple mistakes label you as a troll instead of anyone who wants to engage in serious discourse about a subject.

2: Why do I "need" the vaccine? Why is this flu different than any other? I have never taken a vaccine for any of the past flu seasons nor do I plan to. Why am I selfish in this case? What makes H1N1 so special?
"It is not the strongest of the species that survives, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change." -Charles Darwin
mTs

User ID: 731035
United States
10/27/2009 01:07 PM
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Re: Refusing to get vaccinated is selfish
suicide is also selfish so what should I choose





GLP