Atheist after 40 years a Christian Minister

You were never a Christian.


Sadly I am inclined to agree with Bugeater.

You should know darned well that we are right in the middle of the End Times when we should be out spreading the word. And what do you do? You stand on the sidelines throwing sh*t on those who are helping with the harvest. What use are you for anything. Pull yourself togeather while you are still blessed with a little time, I'm sick and tired of hearing from people like you. HERE HE COMES!...

[link to www.chick.com]

And what happens to your faith when there is no rapture and you find yourself in the tribulation? Many will fall away - will you be one of them?
Or will you persevere? If you are counting on escaping you are setting yourself up.

The Bible is not the Church ... don't mix up the two. Christianity is all about being alive in Christ, within the Christian Church, and it's not a good idea to subsititute this ecclesial life for a literalist interpretation of Scripture.

And what happens to your faith when there is no rapture and you find yourself in the tribulation? Many will fall away - will you be one of them?
Or will you persevere? If you are counting on escaping you are setting yourself up.



Y2K is a good example.

I know a few people who stopped being christians as a result of that.

I had...

And what happens to your faith when there is no rapture and you find yourself in the tribulation? Many will fall away - will you be one of them?
Or will you persevere? If you are counting on escaping you are setting yourself up.


Y2K is a good example.

I know a few people who stopped being christians as a result of that.


Truly, it is all up to you. It all depends on your vibrational frequency when the time comes.

I was a senior in high school at the time and making decisions about career and college. I was "led" into the full-time Christian ministry shortly after my conversion, so I chose to attend a rather well-known Bible college in South Carolina.

After four years there, I sensed that I'd most likely eventually become an overseas missionary, the which I did. But before accepting a missionary assignment in Italy, I graduated, got married, was a youth pastor, a Bible teacher in a Christian school, put in a year towards my Master of Divinity degree, and finally pastored a church in Philadelphia for three years. Six years after graduation from college, my wife, two children, and I moved to Europe to evangelize and start evangelical churches.

This was my life and ministry for over 28 years, but all during this time I was struggling to maintain my faith. I had so many questions about the Bible and its teachings. I kept suspecting that Christianity really didn't "work." I mean, prayer didn't really work. Faith didn't make me a new person. My old "sins" were still plaguing me. I rarely sensed any "presence of God" in my life. I looked for God's guidance, but rarely was sure I got it. And even then it often turned out to be patently erroneous. I experienced church and missions from the inside and became very disillusioned with it. For an enterprise headed by the God of the universe, it sure was awfully human, and terribly fallible. I really saw precious little that could be called "evidence of God" in it all.

My questions about the Bible and its teachings just multiplied over the years, until I had to intentionally close my eyes to them in order to maintain anything like enough faith to continue my ministry without feeling like a total hypocrite. But the struggle only got worse...along with depression and very real self-loathing (for my feelings of hypocrisy.)

Finally, after 28 years overseas, I came to that place where I just could no longer consider myself a believer. I could no longer represent Jesus and the Bible, as my missions agency called on me to do. Honesty demanded that I quit the ministry and return Stateside.

It is now almost five years that I've been back in the "secular" world. I no longer attend church. I have come to peace with my unbelief. In fact, I am happier and enjoy greater contentment now than at any other time in my adult life. The dust has slowly settled in my mind and I have come to realize that I actually do not believe in God at all anymore. I haven't looked to become an atheist, but I guess that's what I am... and I'm very happy in my unbelief, thank you very much!

That's my story in a nutshell. If anyone wants to comment on it or jot me line, feel free (rjtrueman AT gmail DOT com). I'm not crusading for atheism, but neither am I ashamed of it. Quite the contrary.

Be well!

I was a senior in high school at the time and making decisions about career and college. I was "led" into the full-time Christian ministry shortly after my conversion, so I chose to attend a rather well-known Bible college in South Carolina.

After four years there, I sensed that I'd most likely eventually become an overseas missionary, the which I did. But before accepting a missionary assignment in Italy, I graduated, got married, was a youth pastor, a Bible teacher in a Christian school, put in a year towards my Master of Divinity degree, and finally pastored a church in Philadelphia for three years. Six years after graduation from college, my wife, two children, and I moved to Europe to evangelize and start evangelical churches.

This was my life and ministry for over 28 years, but all during this time I was struggling to maintain my faith. I had so many questions about the Bible and its teachings. I kept suspecting that Christianity really didn't "work." I mean, prayer didn't really work. Faith didn't make me a new person. My old "sins" were still plaguing me. I rarely sensed any "presence of God" in my life. I looked for God's guidance, but rarely was sure I got it. And even then it often turned out to be patently erroneous. I experienced church and missions from the inside and became very disillusioned with it. For an enterprise headed by the God of the universe, it sure was awfully human, and terribly fallible. I really saw precious little that could be called "evidence of God" in it all.

My questions about the Bible and its teachings just multiplied over the years, until I had to intentionally close my eyes to them in order to maintain anything like enough faith to continue my ministry without feeling like a total hypocrite. But the struggle only got worse...along with depression and very real self-loathing (for my feelings of hypocrisy.)

Finally, after 28 years overseas, I came to that place where I just could no longer consider myself a believer. I could no longer represent Jesus and the Bible, as my missions agency called on me to do. Honesty demanded that I quit the ministry and return Stateside.

It is now almost five years that I've been back in the "secular" world. I no longer attend church. I have come to peace with my unbelief. In fact, I am happier and enjoy greater contentment now than at any other time in my adult life. The dust has slowly settled in my mind and I have come to realize that I actually do not believe in God at all anymore. I haven't looked to become an atheist, but I guess that's what I am... and I'm very happy in my unbelief, thank you very much!

That's my story in a nutshell. If anyone wants to comment on it or jot me line, feel free (rjtrueman AT gmail DOT com). I'm not crusading for atheism, but neither am I ashamed of it. Quite the contrary.

Be well!

Wow. I have only been reading GLP for about two weeks but this has got to be one of the best posts I've seen. I would give you five stars if I knew how.

This universe is to big and complex to be defined as a battle between God and Lucifer with us poor helpless humans stuck in the middle and the destiny of your sole being based on what you chose to believe.

Think about what the Christian say that God says:

"I'm going to give you an average of 70 years to figure out who Jesus was and of you get it wrong I am going to torture you for eternity.

P.S. Since I am omnipotent I knew before you were born what your destiny would be and I decided to create you anyway."

I think you made the right decision.

After about 30 years myself of being brainwashed into believing the holey-babble, and after much study I too came to the realization that it is not true.

And to think that I once was so convinced that I would have died for it!

Yet, I was totally wrong!

After about 30 years myself of being brainwashed into believing the holey-babble, and after much study I too came to the realization that it is not true.

And to think that I once was so convinced that I would have died for it!

Yet, I was totally wrong!


You never knew Christ.



You are correct!

Because, Christ doesn't exist and never did!

You are delusional and a dangerous threat to the rest of us.

CONGRATS! BETTER LATE THAN NEVER.
MORE AND MORE PEOPLE ARE COMING TO THE SAME
REALIZATIONS YOU HAVE HAD, IT'S A LONG HARD ROAD.
YOU MADE IT!

And what happens to your faith when there is no rapture and you find yourself in the tribulation? Many will fall away - will you be one of them?
Or will you persevere? If you are counting on escaping you are setting yourself up.

Quote:

"I experienced church and missions from the inside and became very disillusioned with it. For an enterprise headed by the God of the universe, it sure was awfully human, and terribly fallible. I really saw precious little that could be called "evidence of God" in it all."


What you were in (Babylon), is NOT headed by the God of the universe. It is headed by the "god" of this age.

 

the Gospel is not latter day saints unless you want to count the last 2000 years as the latter days. Joseph Smith was not a true prophet he was a young man using divination techniques on treasure hunts who invented crazy stories. there is no evidence whatsoever of Jesus coming to North America, or any of the other wild claims in the Book of Mormon.

when the root of a religious movement is bad, the trunk is bad the branches are bad the leaves are bad and ultimately the fruit is bad. no matter how it's gussied up and whitewashed to make it look good it's all based on false teaching and counterfeit 

knowing the real thing -- the Holy Bible -- makes it easy to spot the counterfeit. I've had enough of false teachings they've led me astray one too many times. 

rb

Quote:

"I experienced church and missions from the inside and became very disillusioned with it. For an enterprise headed by the God of the universe, it sure was awfully human, and terribly fallible. I really saw precious little that could be called "evidence of God" in it all."


What you were in (Babylon), is NOT headed by the God of the universe. It is headed by the "god" of this age.



RB = Cursed be the man that trusteth in man.
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

 

the Gospel is not latter day saints unless you want to count the last 2000 years as the latter days. Joseph Smith was not a true prophet he was a young man using divination techniques on treasure hunts who invented crazy stories. there is no evidence whatsoever of Jesus coming to North America, or any of the other wild claims in the Book of Mormon.

when the root of a religious movement is bad, the trunk is bad the branches are bad the leaves are bad and ultimately the fruit is bad. no matter how it's gussied up and whitewashed to make it look good it's all based on false teaching and counterfeit 

knowing the real thing -- the Holy Bible -- makes it easy to spot the counterfeit. I've had enough of false teachings they've led me astray one too many times. 

rb


An excerpt = in the interest of brevity. :pingu2:
( Written by a former minister ) 

TRUST IN THE LORD

A common objection raised against those who belong to the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints is that we follow the teachings of the President of the Church thereby violating the words of the Bible which states, "Thus saith the LORD; 

Cursed be the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from the LORD" (Jeremiah 17:5). 

The reason for this objection stems from three fundamental doctrines upon which nearly all Christian churches have built their religious faith. The first is that God has ceased giving us revelation through the use of prophets as He once did anciently. This leads to the second belief that the Bible is the final and complete word of God to man. As such, there cannot be any more added to what God has already caused to be written. And this had lead to the third belief that the Bible is to be our sole source of authority on religious matters.

. . .

Whether a church is very large or extremely small, nearly every Christian denomination has someone who does the preaching to their congregation. This person is referred to as a minister, pastor, reverend, preacher, priest, or some other similar title. In the vast majority of cases, these individuals have been trained for the ministry. That is, they have gone through some sort of formal theological instruction where they have been prepared to understand what is contained in the Bible. 

Their schooling involves an in-depth study of the doctrines of their faith and a thorough analysis of the entire Bible and how it relates to and verifies their stated beliefs. They also are educated in the background of the Bible, which would include the geography, language, culture, customs and history of the people, places, and events found in the Bible. And, in many cases, even after they've graduated from seminary training, most pastors continue to increase their skills and knowledge of the Bible by taking additional education courses, as well as attending seminars, conferences, and retreats that are offered for the purpose of helping them increase their understanding of what the Bible teaches. In fact, a person can pursue their educational training to the point where they can obtain a Ph.D. in religion. Some go on to specialize in various aspects of religion, becoming a Professor of such subjects as Hebrew or Semitic languages, ancient religious history, or comparative religion, to name just a few.

Armed with this knowledge, the pastor goes forth equipped and prepared to preach the gospel of Jesus Christ to others. Their job not only is to bring souls to Christ by helping them understand how to gain salvation, but, more importantly, to teach both the newly converted as well as the long-time faithful how to grow in their Christian life. Each Sunday (or other day of worship) they stand before their congregation and preach a sermon that's intended to edify, educate, inspire, and improve the understanding of those in attendance on what God expects of them. And they do this by exhorting, expounding, explaining, and emphasizing the things found in the Bible.

For the most part, the members of a congregation have little or no formal biblical training, especially compared to that of their minister. Furthermore, they don't attend the seminars and conferences which their pastor is invited to. Therefore, they come to church for the specific purpose of being taught what the Bible says, in the same way a student comes to class to learn from a teacher. As such, it is the pastor whom the members of the congregation look to for their guidance and instruction in what the Bible teaches. He is the knowledgeable person they go to for answers concerning God's word. He is the one whom they rely upon to help them understand God's word. As such, it is his words they depend on for their understanding of what the Bible teaches concerning how to receive salvation and how to continue in their daily walk with Christ.

But this is no different than what the pastor himself has gone through. At one time, he too was brought to Christ by the preaching of a minister. As a student in seminary class, he was taught by men what the Bible teaches. As such, both the pastor and the members of his congregation have depended on the words of man to tell them what God's word wants them to know. Thus, all Christians, whether they wish to acknowledge it or not, depend on man, not God for their understanding of what the Bible teaches. Yet, not one of these instructors of religion even claims to be teaching by divine inspiration, because, according to their own stated beliefs, God no longer speaks to man in that manner.

However, instead of admitting that they're relying on the words of man to understand God's word, nearly all Christians claim their beliefs are based solely on what is found in the Bible. Therefore, they say that their minister is not preaching their own doctrine but rather is simply explaining what God has already revealed in His written word. Yet, if this were truly the case, then there would be no differences of opinion concerning biblical teachings. That means, it shouldn't matter whether someone goes to a Lutheran church, and Episcopal church, a Baptist Church, a Seventh-day Adventist church, or a Catholic Church because they would all be teaching the same doctrines. However, we know that is not the case. The very reason why there are different denominations is because of disagreements between people on what the Bibles says. (for a more in-depth study of these differences see my article entitled "The Authority of God" )

Those who belong to the Lutheran faith base their doctrines on the teachings of the man, Martin Luther, a 16th century reformist. Thus, to be a Lutheran means that a person subscribes to or agrees with the biblical doctrines taught by Martin Luther. Since he is the founder of this religion, it is his ideas of what the Bible says that is taught in this church. He is the one that all other Lutheran ministers rely upon for their understanding of God's word. Accordingly, they interpret all verses of scripture in conformance to the teachings of the man Martin Luther.

Inspired by Martin Luther, John Calvin took up the torch of reforming the church. However, he took exception with Luther on several fundamental points of doctrine, especially concerning the subject of salvation. Today, those who follow the teachings of John Calvin are known as Calvinists, and practice what they refer to as Reformed Theology. Since John Calvin was the father and founder of this religion, it is his words, in the form of writings and sermons, that form the foundation upon which this church understands all biblical verses. As with the Lutheran faith, to be a member of this church means that a person must subscribe to and agree with the viewpoint which the man John Calvin taught.

Although there are many similarities between these two oldest Protestant denominations, there are also some very significant differences. Yet, both religious faiths make the claim that they are not teaching the doctrines of men but are only teaching what God Himself has written in the Bible. Nevertheless, having made that claim, neither one can completely agree with the other on what the Bible actually teaches.

Following in the footsteps of these two men came the establishment of other Protestant churches, such as the Methodists, Episcopalians, Mennonites, Quakers, etc. And with each new denomination, we see even more doctrinal differences of ideas, each one championed by a prominent preacher. So persuasive were these ministers that they developed a following of believers who accepted their word as being the only correct understanding of what the Bible taught.

Today we find this same situation existing among all denominations. A person regularly attends a particular faith mainly because they agree with the teachings of that church. But, if there comes a time when an individual no longer can accept the doctrinal position of that church, they will switch to a different religious organization with whose teachings they can agree. As such, they are not actually following what is in the Bible, but rather are being persuaded or dissuaded by the ideas, interpretations, and reasoning which men, known as ministers, pastors, or preachers, are teaching. Therefore, in reality, nearly all Christians follow the words of men, not God.

It might be argued by some that this is not an accurate statement because people can read the Bible for themselves to determine whether or not a particular pastor or church is following what the Bible itself teaches. And if they conclude that the church they are attending is straying from the teachings of the Bible, then they will move their membership to a church that does teach biblical truth. However, there is a glaring error with this argument because both the pastor and the disagreeing member each think they have the correct understanding of God's word. It could be said that since the pastor has received theological training in the Bible, while the congregational member hasn't, it is the pastor who has the greater insight into God's word.. Yet, on the other hand, it can be argued that the Bible is sufficiently clear in its message that a person doesn't need training in the ministry to understand God's message of salvation. But, if that is the case, then it would seem there shouldn't be any doctrinal disagreements among people, especially among serious students of the Bible.

Furthermore, what such an argument implies is that the responsibility for determining what the Bible teaches is left up to each individual. But, if that were truly the case, then we wouldn't need anyone to treach us what the Bible says. All we would need to do is read the Bible for ourselves. However, under such a condition each person would become their own final authority in judging what is the correct teachings of the Bible, based upon their own level of knowledge. In such a case, each person would then be putting their trust in themselves to know what they should believe rather than relying on what someone else tells them. And, indeed, it is because of this very situation that has led to there being literally tens of thousands of different Christian denominations in the world today.

Yet, surprising as it may seem, this is the exact opposite of what the Bible teaches. The apostle Paul talked about the dangers of people relying on their own personal ideas and leading others astray from the truth. He warned that people could easily be swayed "to and fro by every wind of doctrine" that came along (Eph. 4:14). He continually admonished the Christian saints to be of one mind and to come to a unity of the faith (Romans 12:16; 2 Cor. 13:11; Eph. 4:13; Phil. 1:27). He expressly wrote that they were to listen to his words and to reject anyone who taught a doctrine different than what he had delivered unto them (Galatians 1:8). It was "the apostles' doctrine" which the earliest Christians followed, not their own ideas (Acts 2:42).

However, when members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow the "the apostles' doctrines" as taught by modern-day, living apostles and prophets, who claim to be just as inspired as their ancient counterparts, many in the Christian community complain that we are putting our trust in man, rather than in God, while claiming they are following God rather than trusting in man.

Perhaps we can illustrate this by way of an example. Let's say that a master carpenter wrote a book explaining how to create ... - [link to www.14lds.com]

This subject WAS added to my Log of Direct Links: 
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

MC

P.S. Since I am omnipotent I knew before you were born what your destiny would be and I decided to create you anyway."

I think you made the right decision.

You must be joking.

You aren't really THIS simple... are you?

However, when members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints follow the "the apostles' doctrines" as taught by modern-day, living apostles and prophets, who claim to be just as inspired as their ancient counterparts, many in the Christian community complain that we are putting our trust in man, rather than in God, while claiming they are following God rather than trusting in man.

Perhaps we can illustrate this by way of an example. Let's say that a master carpenter wrote a book explaining how to create ... - [link to www.14lds.com]

This subject WAS added to my Log of Direct Links: 
[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]

MC

is this shit asswipe?

We don't need a godamn thesis!

For a minister to come along and start his own church, separate of all denomination, is really in my mind and, in light of different cult activity, in many peoples minds suspicious.


It wouldn't at all be suspicious in my mind. I know some Christians who haven't been to seminary who know a lot more spiritual truth in the Bible than do many pastors today. A lot of men in the pulpit are there NOT because God has called them but because they decided for themselves that that's what they want to do. I'm not saying that that is the case with you, because I don't know you, but what I have observed elsewhere.


The leader of our fellowship has no divinity degree, he is fire chief for the community! I don't agree with all his teachings, but that is what my bible is for...to be the good Berean and to delve into the life-giving Word for myself.

The church is so rife with corruption that you may only find a handful of people in your community that still seeks God with all their heart, body and mind.

It is a lonely, narrow path to walk...and church doctrine has fallen greatly into error in the last two millennium. It is full of pitfalls and misdirection.

But, so it has been prophecied for these times. Lack of sound doctrine.

some things are true whether you believe them or not

You were never a Christian.