BTW - if Christianity were so phony, then why are masons and wolves in sheeps clothing like Billy Graham, Rick Warren, and John Hagee masquerading as Christians, only to do all they can to dilute the gospel?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 800472
EXCELLENT POINT THERE!
Anonymous Coward User ID: 355758 11/1/2009 1:41 AM
Having a membership of Christianity can sometimes give you peace of mind and a feeling of self-satisfaction that you are being a part of the well-recognised power with great heritage. Reading the Bible and Praying for God can give you a feeling that you are, or at least are connected to, a being something above this real world that you may not be quite happy with.
But, remember. These can become a great obstacle at the moment when you want to know "the true you" because these are not something who you truly are.
I myself have experienced "supernatural" things quite a time; Once Jesus showed up in front of me, and I heard his voice about the truth of the past, now and the future. Although I forgot almost everything He talked, but I do remember some, which later turned out to be true indeed (with almost impossible probability on random events) and some became realised in some later days. When I prayed for showing me some miracles for something that I can witness with my eyes, and at that moment, heard a very loud voice saying "Blessed Hammer!" and something(I forgot what it was) that was on top of a stack of books fell off. When I got a head-on car collision, I saw after-life and heard voices of God, His plans, timelines, etc., etc., (He was very talkative) and other Angels' talks. I forgot almost everything (I do have very short memory, which got only worsen after the accident due to my head injury) except only a few things that were realised later with almost impossible probability.
After all these weird events I experienced, do I believe in God and Jesus Christ?
No, not at all. I never told these things to anybody because I was afraid of being looked lunatic.
What I only believe is that there must be something that Science has not discovered yet. Or, that might be simply something wrong with me; maybe my brain was malfunctioning for some unknown reason casuing this hallucination or delusion. Anyways, current science does not need a concept of God for its theoretical system because without the concept it still goes without troubles and it is still no problem that the system proves itself correct on its own and humans including me have no problems maintaining their daily lives, which keeps disproving the existence of God.
But, more importantly, the problem is all these "miracles" I have experienced were something that was not me. Nobody worships a magician as their God or Saviour at his miracluous looking tricks.
No matter how hard I prayed for God and no matter how hard I cursed at Him, all the time the same result. Why? I think it's because the one I prayed for was not something that was not in me, which then is merely what you Bible lovers call an idol.
My conclusion is the best way to meet God is to be truly yourself and try to find Him in yourself.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 728173 11/1/2009 1:47 AM
Whenever a poor deluded fool wakes up and makes his escape from the Christian death cult, some other poor deluded fool will say, "You were never saved! You never knew god!"
Judge not lest ye be judged.
They're all such hopeless hypocrites--which just goes to show their religion isn't true.
None of them are able to practice it. Fools must learn from experience.
MagiChristmas Cher Ami -- When did Pigeons not= Doves? User ID: 554973 11/1/2009 9:51 AM
After about 30 years myself of being brainwashed into believing the holey-babble, and after much study I too came to the realization that it is not true.
And to think that I once was so convinced that I would have died for it!
Yet, I was totally wrong!
I'm just the COMPLETE opposite - after so many years of REBELLING against God's word, b/c I thought the whole thing was utter garbage, I've come to the realization in recent years that it IS TRUELY the WORD OF GOD, and we need to walk in obedience which is faith through Jesus Christ.
BTW - if Christianity were so phony, then why are masons and wolves in sheeps clothing like Billy Graham, Rick Warren, and John Hagee masquerading as Christians, only to do all they can to dilute the gospel?
I'm not here to put you or your beliefs down. We all have our own journey to walk and to walk it in our own time...but I would be remiss if I didn't ask you the following question with respect to the part of your post I've highlighted...
Which one is "TRUELY THE WORD OF GOD?"
Is it The King James Version, or maybe The New King James? The New International Version? Perhaps it's The Living Bible? Or maybe it's The Revised Standard Version? Then again, it could be The Septuigent? Or The Tanach? Perhaps it is the Torrah? Perhaps it's The Catholic Bible? Or maybe it's just The Dead Sea Scrolls? Hmmmm if so, which ones? Is it The Apocrypha, or only some of them?
I hope I've made my point and given you a place to start. But even more so, I hope I've given you enough of a question to start doing some searious research as to the origins of "The Word of God."
Quoting: Lady Wolf
Myth 8. The Bible is common ground in missionary work
This statement applies especially to Latter-day Saints. We often assume that the Bible is the common ground from which we can build understanding. If there was any semblance of agreement in modern Christianity, do you think there would be a thousand quarreling sects and denominations? Joseph Smith went into the grove to pray because he came to the conclusion that it was impossible to find out which Church he should join by studying the Bible alone. This is a true statement.
In this "war of words" and "contest of opinions" that rages in Christendom, the only way to find the truth is to "ask of God." (James 1:5) Thus the Book of Mormon becomes the preeminent tool for conversion. It offers clear and plain gospel teachings free of sectarian interpretations. It clarifies the Bible's teachings and helps identify the interpolations of men.
It also identifies to the sincere seeker, where and how to locate the conduit of personal revelation for himself, independent of anyone or anything else. - [link to www.examiner.com]
Tis True, Tis True, Second Degree Doom Doth Ensue precisely as prescribed several months prior.
Discern the TRUTH of the TimeTable of Doom described in the aforementioned links. The TToD is Based on April 6th aka The MOST Significant day - 4.6 magnitude precursor earthquake struck Italy on April 6th shortly after the Prophet spoke. Then the major earthquake event occurred shortly after general conference adjourned. Ref=lds.org The swine flu epidemic also emerged on April 6th in Mexico.
in my own life I've found it's entirely possible to turn my back on God - I've done so many times. looking back, each time I did so I mad a deliberate decision to forget about Him and do things MY way.
you can guess why. His way means I have to submit. His way means I have to turn the other cheek. His way means I get to watch others sinning with seeming impunity -- and enjoying it. His way means I have to feel bad when I sin. His way means I have to be faithful -- reading my Bible, praying, going to church, and trying to represent Him as best I can in my home, at work, and everywhere I go. and there are many many times I do this horribly.
so I've turned away from Him, using any means available to blot out His still small voice. I've stayed busy. I've drank and used drugs. I've dived into hobbies. I've overworked. I've been to university and law school. I've been addicted to the Internet. and I've found many many disheartened disillusioned people in real life and online who have commiserated with and confirmed my feelings.
I've been offended at church -- by church people -- plenty. and yes I've avoided church. I've avoided it years at a time.
I've stopped praying more than once in my life. God wasn't doing it my way. I as serving and loving Him and nothing was happening. I was still broke, the special woman still didn't love me.
the Bible can be tiresome -- encumbering. slogging my way through to what purpose? who can ever claim to even begin to believe or understand all the stuff in it? it's an impossible Book.
so what -- believe what I choose and throw out the rest? worship God my own way in nature or wherever? skip formal prayer and just pretend my every action is a prayer?
I've actually tried these things. they don't work. I don't have an in-between switch. I'm either in or out -- all or nothing. I've tried to reign in hell rather than serve in heaven.
I'm like a twisted southern gospel type like Elvis or little Richard or Jerry lee Louis. either whacked out entirely drugs sex rock n roll or singing in church. no in between. no compromise. I cannot be laodecian -- I'm either hot or cold. I don't know the meaning of lukewarm.
today I'm red hot -- back walking with God. I go to church read the Bible and I pray. I'm fully convinced we're in the last of the last days. I have no intention of backsliding ever again -- I thank God I woke up in time.
one thing I'm learning -- this is between me and God. not me and people. not me and me. me and God. and the Holy Spirit will work His perfect work if I get out of the way.
I have to swallow my pride and keep plugging away. all or nothing. no matter what, no matter who. that's MY walk. I've turned my back too many times -- I KNOW how that ends up. this is a fascinating unique time in history and I can't wait to see what's about to happen! and I'm happy to be part of history right now in my own small way -- serving God.
love peace and joy
rb
Anonymous Coward User ID: 741425 11/1/2009 12:42 PM
The command is to follow no one but your true self. Not to idolize and walk a path of darkness holding a candle you believe to be your savior when there is none. Only you can save yourself by opening your eyes and wake up from your dream world. Not to worry what other people do and force false believes onto others. False due to no longer being right. Altered, changed loosing its true meaning. Giving false representations.
If anyone lives a lie, it is yourself.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 728979 11/1/2009 1:28 PM
I was a senior in high school at the time and making decisions about career and college. I was "led" into the full-time Christian ministry shortly after my conversion, so I chose to attend a rather well-known Bible college in South Carolina.
After four years there, I sensed that I'd most likely eventually become an overseas missionary, the which I did. But before accepting a missionary assignment in Italy, I graduated, got married, was a youth pastor, a Bible teacher in a Christian school, put in a year towards my Master of Divinity degree, and finally pastored a church in Philadelphia for three years. Six years after graduation from college, my wife, two children, and I moved to Europe to evangelize and start evangelical churches.
This was my life and ministry for over 28 years, but all during this time I was struggling to maintain my faith. I had so many questions about the Bible and its teachings. I kept suspecting that Christianity really didn't "work." I mean, prayer didn't really work. Faith didn't make me a new person. My old "sins" were still plaguing me. I rarely sensed any "presence of God" in my life. I looked for God's guidance, but rarely was sure I got it. And even then it often turned out to be patently erroneous. I experienced church and missions from the inside and became very disillusioned with it. For an enterprise headed by the God of the universe, it sure was awfully human, and terribly fallible. I really saw precious little that could be called "evidence of God" in it all.
My questions about the Bible and its teachings just multiplied over the years, until I had to intentionally close my eyes to them in order to maintain anything like enough faith to continue my ministry without feeling like a total hypocrite. But the struggle only got worse...along with depression and very real self-loathing (for my feelings of hypocrisy.)
Finally, after 28 years overseas, I came to that place where I just could no longer consider myself a believer. I could no longer represent Jesus and the Bible, as my missions agency called on me to do. Honesty demanded that I quit the ministry and return Stateside.
It is now almost five years that I've been back in the "secular" world. I no longer attend church. I have come to peace with my unbelief. In fact, I am happier and enjoy greater contentment now than at any other time in my adult life. The dust has slowly settled in my mind and I have come to realize that I actually do not believe in God at all anymore. I haven't looked to become an atheist, but I guess that's what I am... and I'm very happy in my unbelief, thank you very much!
That's my story in a nutshell. If anyone wants to comment on it or jot me line, feel free (rjtrueman AT gmail DOT com). I'm not crusading for atheism, but neither am I ashamed of it. Quite the contrary.
Be well!
Quoting: Ex-Minister 534348
Pity with doubts like yours that you stayed in a church as long as you did. Good thing you got out and took what's poisoning you with you.
You're probably smart enough to realize not to confuse the often-disappointing antics of Christians with Christ.
So, assuming any of this tract is real, (a huge assumption, I know) and that your essay isn't but a junior atheist attempt to cast doubt upon Christ by portraying a Hallmark version of the "picture-perfect Christian life" gone aground on the rocky shores of reason and disappointment, I'd have to say that you simply didn't like the fact that God refuses to behave like a toy poodle on the end of a leash, obeying our every command.
Grow up. Atheism is easy, it's not the "hard truth" it's portrayed as. It's a very cozy, self-indulgent denial of truth.
It's much harder to have faith, to believe inspite of unbelief, to have faith in things unseen and unknowable, and to persist in this faith--in the manner of Paul or of Christ Himself--while being kicked between pillar and post.
Truthfully, though, I suspect your essay is just a junior atheist "tract". Wish I could give it less than one star, but alas, that's all I'm allowed.
Don't forget to repent and be saved while there's time.
It's just psycology.
I you need a cruth to help you cope with life, it's ok.
(It's not ok to impose in on others or kill them because they are sinners or infidels)
You could just as well consult with the tribe xaman, or whatever.
Every belief system provides you with a crutch.
The problems only arrive when you use the crutch to hit the others on the head.
Organized religion is just a business that sells crutches.
It's just human nature.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 807861 11/1/2009 2:35 PM
It's just psycology.
I you need a cruth to help you cope with life, it's ok.
(It's not ok to impose in on others or kill them because they are sinners or infidels)
You could just as well consult with the tribe xaman, or whatever.
Every belief system provides you with a crutch.
The problems only arrive when you use the crutch to hit the others on the head.
Organized religion is just a business that sells crutches.
It's just human nature.
Quoting: alexxilo 808052
Anonymous Coward User ID: 807550 11/1/2009 2:36 PM
in my own life I've found it's entirely possible to turn my back on God - I've done so many times. looking back, each time I did so I mad a deliberate decision to forget about Him and do things MY way.
you can guess why. His way means I have to submit. His way means I have to turn the other cheek. His way means I get to watch others sinning with seeming impunity -- and enjoying it. His way means I have to feel bad when I sin. His way means I have to be faithful -- reading my Bible, praying, going to church, and trying to represent Him as best I can in my home, at work, and everywhere I go. and there are many many times I do this horribly.
so I've turned away from Him, using any means available to blot out His still small voice. I've stayed busy. I've drank and used drugs. I've dived into hobbies. I've overworked. I've been to university and law school. I've been addicted to the Internet. and I've found many many disheartened disillusioned people in real life and online who have commiserated with and confirmed my feelings.
I've been offended at church -- by church people -- plenty. and yes I've avoided church. I've avoided it years at a time.
I've stopped praying more than once in my life. God wasn't doing it my way. I as serving and loving Him and nothing was happening. I was still broke, the special woman still didn't love me.
the Bible can be tiresome -- encumbering. slogging my way through to what purpose? who can ever claim to even begin to believe or understand all the stuff in it? it's an impossible Book.
so what -- believe what I choose and throw out the rest? worship God my own way in nature or wherever? skip formal prayer and just pretend my every action is a prayer?
I've actually tried these things. they don't work. I don't have an in-between switch. I'm either in or out -- all or nothing. I've tried to reign in hell rather than serve in heaven.
I'm like a twisted southern gospel type like Elvis or little Richard or Jerry lee Louis. either whacked out entirely drugs sex rock n roll or singing in church. no in between. no compromise. I cannot be laodecian -- I'm either hot or cold. I don't know the meaning of lukewarm.
today I'm red hot -- back walking with God. I go to church read the Bible and I pray. I'm fully convinced we're in the last of the last days. I have no intention of backsliding ever again -- I thank God I woke up in time.
one thing I'm learning -- this is between me and God. not me and people. not me and me. me and God. and the Holy Spirit will work His perfect work if I get out of the way.
I have to swallow my pride and keep plugging away. all or nothing. no matter what, no matter who. that's MY walk. I've turned my back too many times -- I KNOW how that ends up. this is a fascinating unique time in history and I can't wait to see what's about to happen! and I'm happy to be part of history right now in my own small way -- serving God.
love peace and joy
rb
Quoting: rb 744816
if you are lukewarm, you get spewed out of his mouth. Revelations
It's just psycology.
If you need a cruth to help you cope with life, it's ok.
(It's not ok to impose in on others or kill them because they are sinners or infidels)
You could just as well consult with the tribe xaman, or whatever.
Every belief system provides you with a crutch.
The problems only arrive when you use the crutch to hit the others on the head.
Organized religion is just a business that sells crutches.
It's just human nature.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 807861
What is really tragic is that religions produced inquisitions, jhihads, countless wars and immense humman suffering.
Human nature, I suppose, sadly.
bless you rb He always welcomes us back into the fold, it is the lost sheep for which He searches.
Quoting: Mickeyblue 330969
yes and for me I find He has a tendency to take out anything that gets in His way
or I can see it about to get yanked
nothing is more painful than to KNOW the truth KNOW there is an answer and yet disregard these things -- to keep on plugging away on the wrong path regardless of consequences -- headed straight over that same old inevitable cliff
until finally Jesus is all I have left. everything gets stripped away -- family job possessions friends -- sanity -- and I know where the blame squarely lies. it's me -- and my sin. I can't even blame the devil cause I know enough to take authority over him.
this has happened to me over and over -- like a hamster in a wheel. 30 years ago one of my best friends wrote me a note saying my head must smart from banging it against the wall so many times. and I've banged that same wall over and over too many times to count in the intervening years.
we backsliders know deep down in our hearts we're off course -- whether we choose to acknowledge it to others or even ourselves. we bury ourselves in whatever we can to blot out the pain of self-imposed separation -- psychology was my minor and works well for a few years -/ philosophy is excellent for making up excuses too. pointing out the duplicity and hypocrisy of others works wonders -- for awhile.
but sooner or later if we live long enough we're ultimately confronted once and for all with OUR problem -- sin -- and how to get rid of it. sin finally just hurts too much to continue. for me the pleasure of sin has usually looong gone before the reality of the dire consequences has set in. and of course it's embarrassing and humiliating knowing everyone around me has been witness to my downfall. can I run away again or am I finally cornered??
Jesus has ALWAYS been right there waiting, with open arms, to welcome me back to His plan for my life. I do reap what I sow, no way to get around it. but all things work together for good to those who love God and are the called according to His purpose.
there's no in between. we're all either driving people to the Lord or leading them. a negative testimony drives. a positive leads. we overcome by the Blood of the Lamb and the Word of our testimony.
it isn't an equal fight at all. the Lord is vastly more powerful than the forces of evil. someday we'll look on the pathetic creature who came to kill steal and destroy and say is THAT all he was??
well I fancied myself an intellectual and prided myself on my convoluted philosophy all in vain. comes a time when I have to face ME and see the ugly. depraved. no more lying to myself. I am helpless and hopeless without a savior. can't run away anymore. I want to come home -- prodigal.
and I find out again Jesus is all I have -- but not until He's just about all I have left
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Nice to know not everybody is incapable of following a reason chain.
