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| .
User ID: 811981
11/6/2009 2:59 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Oh I think we all know who the real mind controlled verse and scripture spouting monkey here really is!!
___________ Quoting: HardTruth
I always find it so telling, amusing even to watch the unconscionable, fashion their lies, deceit and rancor into a form which they then accuse those who expose them, of being.
It reveals how desperate and telling the lack of truth they have, is becoming unbearable, so time to make your enemies in your own image, as you know yourself deceits best and its easy to project that onto the unsuspecting. its a last gasp argument turner, to try and get observers of the debate to allow the blameshift of your guilt and misdeeds onto another party.
Your a naughty boy OP, and not as bright as you obviously think you are. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 3:05 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
You can't have your cake and eat it too...
Well, let me ask you this. If I say I have a relationship with God, a friendship, how would you define that in human terms? Would you call me a Christian or a Jew? Is that the true meaning of Christian or Jew?
What do you call a person who says they are a friend of God? You may call them just plain crazy. Who knows.
A friend of God is a first a friend of His fellow Man and second a lover of Good, Wisdom, and Righteousness (qualities of the Father).
That is putting people before God, IMO. It also does not work for me. If I have no heart for God, I cannot truly have compassion for people. I can say that I do. I can pretend that I do, but I don't really. It's a false compassion. I know because I have been in both places.
If a person is a lover of God and a friend of God, those things you mentioned follow very naturally. It is impossible to love God and hate people at the same time. Impossible. If that's the case there is something very wrong with us, not God.
It is however possible to hate God and to hate people at the same time.
Ok, we can get caught up in chicken or egg debate, and in a theological treatise, but what I love about Jesus is his simplicity, Jesus taught us the way to love God, and in fact love Jesus, was to love those in need... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
In my world, it is ONLY the love of God living in the human heart in the form of the person of Jesus Christ, that compels and enables any man to love their neighbor in the way Jesus was describing in the first place.
I believe that because it is Christ in me that actually loves my neighbor, not my human love. Your way suggests that our path to God is by works. Works will never please God.
I disagree with your statement and would restate it for myself in this way:
Jesus said..."If you love me, you will do these things."
He did not say "If you love others then you can then do these things." He said "If you love me, you will." In other words, basically.....If you love me......here's what will happen to your life. Here is how it will change with me living in you.
Meaning that Christ will do it through you, not you doing it. The result of our love for Christ, is that he will do these things through us by his power.
We cannot even love God properly of our own power, and need Christ for that too. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 3:12 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
You can't have your cake and eat it too...
Well, let me ask you this. If I say I have a relationship with God, a friendship, how would you define that in human terms? Would you call me a Christian or a Jew? Is that the true meaning of Christian or Jew?
What do you call a person who says they are a friend of God? You may call them just plain crazy. Who knows.
A friend of God is a first a friend of His fellow Man and second a lover of Good, Wisdom, and Righteousness (qualities of the Father).
That is putting people before God, IMO. It also does not work for me. If I have no heart for God, I cannot truly have compassion for people. I can say that I do. I can pretend that I do, but I don't really. It's a false compassion. I know because I have been in both places.
If a person is a lover of God and a friend of God, those things you mentioned follow very naturally. It is impossible to love God and hate people at the same time. Impossible. If that's the case there is something very wrong with us, not God.
It is however possible to hate God and to hate people at the same time.
Ok, we can get caught up in chicken or egg debate, and in a theological treatise, but what I love about Jesus is his simplicity, Jesus taught us the way to love God, and in fact love Jesus, was to love those in need...
In my world, it is ONLY the love of God living in the human heart in the form of the person of Jesus Christ, that compels and enables any man to love their neighbor in the way Jesus was describing in the first place.
I believe that because it is Christ in me that actually loves my neighbor, not my human love. Your way suggests that our path to God is by works. Works will never please God.
I disagree with your statement and would restate it for myself in this way:
Jesus said..."If you love me, you will do these things."
He did not say "If you love others then you can then do these things." He said "If you love me, you will." In other words, basically.....If you love me......here's what will happen to your life. Here is how it will change with me living in you.
Meaning that Christ will do it through you, not you doing it. The result of our love for Christ, is that he will do these things through us by his power.
We cannot even love God properly of our own power, and need Christ for that too. Quoting: Jonathan
the point of that verse is not works vs faith...and again your falling into the 2000 year old western misunderstanding of works..
works are not good deeds, works as mentioned by Paul, were Torah based works of Law (the heavy yoke). in fact I cant believe a man as bright as Martin Luther didnt understand this...
the point Jesus was making, is there will be a bunch of fools who claimed to have loved Him, by practicing rites, clinging to the right dogma, clinging to right doctrines, going to the right churches, buying the right books (ahem...Piper, MacArthur, etc), but all that will be for naught if they didnt practice what they preached in compassion, love and understanding. sorry if that is not Evangelical enough for you, or if love is too "new agey" a concept for the political religion we have inherited in modern christianity, but Jesus was pretty clear throughout the Synoptics on practice what you preach. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 3:15 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 3:22 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Ok, we can get caught up in chicken or egg debate, and in a theological treatise, but what I love about Jesus is his simplicity, Jesus taught us the way to love God, and in fact love Jesus, was to love those in need...
In my world, it is ONLY the love of God living in the human heart in the form of the person of Jesus Christ, that compels and enables any man to love their neighbor in the way Jesus was describing in the first place.
I believe that because it is Christ in me that actually loves my neighbor, not my human love. Your way suggests that our path to God is by works. Works will never please God.
I disagree with your statement and would restate it for myself in this way:
Jesus said..."If you love me, you will do these things."
He did not say "If you love others then you can then do these things." He said "If you love me, you will." In other words, basically.....If you love me......here's what will happen to your life. Here is how it will change with me living in you.
Meaning that Christ will do it through you, not you doing it. The result of our love for Christ, is that he will do these things through us by his power.
We cannot even love God properly of our own power, and need Christ for that too.
the point of that verse is not works vs faith...and again your falling into the 2000 year old western misunderstanding of works..
works are not good deeds, works as mentioned by Paul, were Torah based works of Law (the heavy yoke). in fact I cant believe a man as bright as Martin Luther didnt understand this...
the point Jesus was making, is there will be a bunch of fools who claimed to have loved Him, by practicing rites, clinging to the right dogma, clinging to right doctrines, going to the right churches, buying the right books (ahem...Piper, MacArthur, etc), but all that will be for naught if they didnt practice what they preached in compassion, love and understanding. sorry if that is not Evangelical enough for you, or if love is too "new agey" a concept for the political religion we have inherited in modern christianity, but Jesus was pretty clear throughout the Synoptics on practice what you preach. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
I disagree with your first sentence. I do not see the verse as works verses faith. Where did you come up with that one? I see it as a simple and practical statement by Jesus about how to do all the things he said.
My definition of 'works' that do not please God qualifies as:
...any human effort supposedly accomplished by our own 'power' that we also take full credit for and do not acknowledge it was God in the first place who even gave us any human ability at all. This means thoughts, actions, choices, etc. in life.
You said:
'the point Jesus was making, is there will be a bunch of fools who claimed to have loved Him, by practicing rites, clinging to the right dogma, clinging to right doctrines, going to the right churches, buying the right books (ahem...Piper, MacArthur, etc), but all that will be for naught if they didnt practice what they preached in compassion, love and understanding.'
I could not agree more. That is a part of the meaning.
Last Edited by Jonathan on 11/6/2009 at 3:23 PM |
| HardTruth 
User ID: 811994
11/6/2009 3:28 PM
 | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Oh I think we all know who the real mind controlled verse and scripture spouting monkey here really is!!
___________
I always find it so telling, amusing even to watch the unconscionable, fashion their lies, deceit and rancor into a form which they then accuse those who expose them, of being.
It reveals how desperate and telling the lack of truth they have, is becoming unbearable, so time to make your enemies in your own image, as you know yourself deceits best and its easy to project that onto the unsuspecting. its a last gasp argument turner, to try and get observers of the debate to allow the blameshift of your guilt and misdeeds onto another party.
Your a naughty boy OP, and not as bright as you obviously think you are. Quoting: . 811981
Well I see you are just as unable to come to the truth about me as you were in determining the validity of your religion, in other words a big fail!!
And yes grasshopper I am as bright as I know I am!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!! |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 3:36 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 3:41 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color. Quoting: Jonathan
No the way Christianity is pedaled in 2009 promotes blind faith.
Jesus is reduced to a magic light switch. Accept Jesus and everything will magically change, then after the honeymoon period of rebirth is over, and the individual finds themselves falling back into sin, fear, anger, they label Christ and God as a fraud. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 3:49 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
To continue Christian books might as well be in the self help section, people are unable to accept the good with bad...
We attempt to bribe God with our Doctrines, and Dogma (whether we know it or not) where as we used to bribe him with burnt offerings and sacrifices. We have just switched our works from physical sacrifice to doctrinal "truths" We want something from God, we feel like God owes us.
Change in Christ takes time, it is a slow process, any preacher promoting anything different is promoting blind faith through useless creeds. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 3:50 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.
No the way Christianity is pedaled in 2009 promotes blind faith.
Jesus is reduced to a magic light switch. Accept Jesus and everything will magically change, then after the honeymoon period of rebirth is over, and the individual finds themselves falling back into sin, fear, anger, they label Christ and God as a fraud. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
This is all too true, and I agree completely.
.....with one caveat:
People who accept Jesus sincerely do change and there is an actual transformation that is visible to the world. That transformation can often come in the form of more trials and tribulations, not some 'joy juice' nonsense.
It is by and through others watching how Jesus works in those tough times through our lives that people notice the way we handle the problems of this life. if Jesus is living in us then people see a unique and better way. That is how Christ reaches people....by using his people as living examples. Not every person is willing to let God work in this way, because it requires human discomfort.
People don't really want that so much, IMO.
Last Edited by Jonathan on 11/6/2009 at 3:51 PM |
| HardTruth
User ID: 811994
11/6/2009 3:55 PM
| | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color. Quoting: Jonathan
Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!! |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 3:58 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.
Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!! Quoting: HardTruth
Of course you would see it as lying. I can understand that considering your take on Christ Jesus. I think you may even believe there was no Jesus? (not sure)
How could I possibly talk to someone that is not real to you? If you were to tell me that you just spoke to the Easter Bunny, I would have to say that is not possible.
So, I get why you would call me a liar. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 4:06 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.
Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Of course you would see it as lying. I can understand that considering your take on Christ Jesus. I think you may even believe there was no Jesus? (not sure)
How could I possibly talk to someone that is not real to you? If you were to tell me that you just spoke to the Easter Bunny, I would have to say that is not possible.
So, I get why you would call me a liar. Quoting: Jonathan
I dont see how the belief in Jesus is incompatible with what he was saying earlier in regards to a cosmic battle, the universe as eternal, etc. And how believing in those things are any less crazy than believing in Jesus. For me it all fits like a glove, ufo = chariots, cosmic battle = fallen vs elect, etc. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 4:16 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.
Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Of course you would see it as lying. I can understand that considering your take on Christ Jesus. I think you may even believe there was no Jesus? (not sure)
How could I possibly talk to someone that is not real to you? If you were to tell me that you just spoke to the Easter Bunny, I would have to say that is not possible.
So, I get why you would call me a liar.
I dont see how the belief in Jesus is incompatible with what he was saying earlier in regards to a cosmic battle, the universe as eternal, etc. And how believing in those things are any less crazy than believing in Jesus. For me it all fits like a glove, ufo = chariots, cosmic battle = fallen vs elect, etc. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
Then that's what makes sense to you. It is not for me to say to you how you should believe or what you should believe. If a cosmic battle and UFO's makes sense to you, then it just does.
The only difference I can see in those beliefs you mentioned and a belief in Jesus, is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real. I have never met an ET, nor have I found any research as of yet that can prove beyond any doubt as to exactly how old the universe is. I would have to take those things on blind belief if I were to embrace them.
There is nothing wrong with that though. I take certain things based on blind belief too. We all do....daily. When we go to sleep each night we do so believing we will wake up the next day, but that may not be the case. But, we still go to sleep believing it. How blind is that? LOL. |
| HardTruth
User ID: 811994
11/6/2009 4:19 PM
| | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.
You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.
In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.
Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.
Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Of course you would see it as lying. I can understand that considering your take on Christ Jesus. I think you may even believe there was no Jesus? (not sure)
How could I possibly talk to someone that is not real to you? If you were to tell me that you just spoke to the Easter Bunny, I would have to say that is not possible.
So, I get why you would call me a liar.
I dont see how the belief in Jesus is incompatible with what he was saying earlier in regards to a cosmic battle, the universe as eternal, etc. And how believing in those things are any less crazy than believing in Jesus. For me it all fits like a glove, ufo = chariots, cosmic battle = fallen vs elect, etc.
Then that's what makes sense to you. It is not for me to say to you how you should believe or what you should believe. If a cosmic battle and UFO's makes sense to you, then it just does.
The only difference I can see in those beliefs you mentioned and a belief in Jesus, is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real. I have never met an ET, nor have I found any research as of yet that can prove beyond any doubt as to exactly how old the universe is. I would have to take those things on blind belief if I were to embrace them.
There is nothing wrong with that though. I take certain things based on blind belief too. We all do....daily. When we go to sleep each night we do so believing we will wake up the next day, but that may not be the case. But, we still go to sleep believing it. How blind is that? LOL. Quoting: Jonathan
False religion for sure when one lies to defend it!!
I know for a fact you have not meet and talked with the christian Jesus....ROFL!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810168
11/6/2009 4:23 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real. Quoting: Jonathan
wtf. lol, that was Satan. Jesus clearly said in John's Gospel, he is departing and where he is going we can not come and vice versa, hence he is sending the Holy Spirit, are you calling Jesus a liar?
Now, I have felt the power of God, as in a physical tingling warmth, an overwhelming sober intoxication, clarity and indescribable peace of mind, etc. I even heard some sort of voice while in prayer once (it said Yeshua, weird), but you have to explain this if you dont want to fall into the loony category. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 4:37 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
There is nothing wrong with that though. I take certain things based on blind belief too. We all do....daily. When we go to sleep each night we do so believing we will wake up the next day, but that may not be the case. But, we still go to sleep believing it. How blind is that? LOL.
False religion for sure when one lies to defend it!!
I know for a fact you have not meet and talked with the christian Jesus....ROFL!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!! Quoting: HardTruth
I agree completely with your first sentence. And, I am convinced that God needs no help or assistance from humans in 'defending' himself. And, I don't know Jesus to be petty or small to where he would need to 'defend' himself. That is a petty human behavior. What God says goes and he is God, period. There is nothing to 'defend.'
As to your knowing facts....to you I am quite sure they are facts. I don't dispute that they are the facts to you. What would you like me to respond? Shall I try to 'convince' you that I speak to Jesus and he speaks back to me? Shall I say that I am a liar? I can't do either. The first because I don't need to convince anybody, and the second would be untrue. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812142
11/6/2009 4:39 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Ok, you have to clarify, you hear an audible voice you take to be Jesus, or you met him, as in he came up to you and gave you a pat on the back. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812142
11/6/2009 4:43 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
no reply??? |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 4:48 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real.
wtf. lol, that was Satan. Jesus clearly said in John's Gospel, he is departing and where he is going we can not come and vice versa, hence he is sending the Holy Spirit, are you calling Jesus a liar?
Now, I have felt the power of God, as in a physical tingling warmth, an overwhelming sober intoxication, clarity and indescribable peace of mind, etc. I even heard some sort of voice while in prayer once (it said Yeshua, weird), but you have to explain this if you dont want to fall into the loony category. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
Jesus and I speak daily. It is a two way and ongoing conversation within a close personal relationship. Christ is not limited to human words. Christ lives in my thoughts and often guides and directs them. He placed his word in my heart and brought his word to life.
I don't really care who thinks I am looney. That is of no concern to me. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812142
11/6/2009 4:51 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real.
wtf. lol, that was Satan. Jesus clearly said in John's Gospel, he is departing and where he is going we can not come and vice versa, hence he is sending the Holy Spirit, are you calling Jesus a liar?
Now, I have felt the power of God, as in a physical tingling warmth, an overwhelming sober intoxication, clarity and indescribable peace of mind, etc. I even heard some sort of voice while in prayer once (it said Yeshua, weird), but you have to explain this if you dont want to fall into the loony category.
Jesus and I speak daily. It is a two way and ongoing conversation within a close personal relationship. Christ is not limited to human words. Christ lives in my thoughts and often guides and directs them. He placed his word in my heart and brought his word to life.
I don't really care who thinks I am looney. That is of no concern to me. Quoting: Jonathan
Dude, you made it sound like Jesus walked up to you and gave you a high five. I dont think your looney, but I would watch your phrasing when typing that out. hahaha. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812142
11/6/2009 4:54 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Be careful Jonathan
John MacArthur says this: "One television evangelist claims that he had a seven hour conversation with Jesus Christ. Seven hours. And during that time they talked about the problems on earth and discussed decisions which he, the evangelist, was facing. And Jesus was trying to help him work out some of these decisions. Significantly, this man also has said he had some direct encounters with Satan, who has tried to choke the preacher in his bed. Unfortunately, the man doesn't see the connection between the two events. It seems to me that Jesus appearing to him was nothing different than the manifestation of a demonic spirit who took the name of Jesus Christ and was very likely the same spirit that wanted to choke him. Certainly, there is no way to tell the difference in that kind of mystical experience.
Spirits who claim to be Jesus Christ abound in my limited experience. I have even heard them take His name myself, and say they are Jesus Christ when it is apparent that they are not. Anyone who seeks direct communication with God or Christ is in serious danger of demonic impersonators of deity." |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 4:57 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
is that I have actually met and talked with Jesus, and I know he is real.
wtf. lol, that was Satan. Jesus clearly said in John's Gospel, he is departing and where he is going we can not come and vice versa, hence he is sending the Holy Spirit, are you calling Jesus a liar?
Now, I have felt the power of God, as in a physical tingling warmth, an overwhelming sober intoxication, clarity and indescribable peace of mind, etc. I even heard some sort of voice while in prayer once (it said Yeshua, weird), but you have to explain this if you dont want to fall into the loony category.
Jesus and I speak daily. It is a two way and ongoing conversation within a close personal relationship. Christ is not limited to human words. Christ lives in my thoughts and often guides and directs them. He placed his word in my heart and brought his word to life.
I don't really care who thinks I am looney. That is of no concern to me.
Dude, you made it sound like Jesus walked up to you and gave you a high five. I dont think your looney, but I would watch your phrasing when typing that out. hahaha. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812142
The concept of talking to a person who we cannot see with the human eyes (presently) is for some.....quite impossible and ridiculous. I can understand this. I really can. It took a long time for me to accept and believe that. The mind just defies it. It's our nature. It is much easier and more comfortable to just dismiss that as even a possibility.
I personally believe that what we do not see presently with our human eyes, is more real than what we do. This is not an easy thing to digest with the human mind, IMO. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 5:05 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
John MacArthur says this: "One television evangelist claims that he had a seven hour conversation with Jesus Christ. Seven hours. And during that time they talked about the problems on earth and discussed decisions which he, the evangelist, was facing. And Jesus was trying to help him work out some of these decisions. Significantly, this man also has said he had some direct encounters with Satan, who has tried to choke the preacher in his bed. Unfortunately, the man doesn't see the connection between the two events. It seems to me that Jesus appearing to him was nothing different than the manifestation of a demonic spirit who took the name of Jesus Christ and was very likely the same spirit that wanted to choke him. Certainly, there is no way to tell the difference in that kind of mystical experience. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812142
That guy is certifiably looney, IMO. I say that because the description of how Jesus behaved (above) is not Biblical at all. Therefore, we can know this is not how Jesus speaks and this man is not talking to the actual Christ.
Spirits who claim to be Jesus Christ abound in my limited experience. I have even heard them take His name myself, and say they are Jesus Christ when it is apparent that they are not. Anyone who seeks direct communication with God or Christ is in serious danger of demonic impersonators of deity." Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812142
I do not dialog to a spirit that says audibly that they are Christ. Jesus lives in my heart and we walk together daily. Part of that walk includes communication. It is quite natural.
As for demonic entities they do not worry me. I keep my eyes focused on Christ. The more I get to know the real deal, the easier it is to spot false spirits. I think that is what Jesus had in mind for us. |
| Jonathan
User ID: 624300
11/6/2009 5:17 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
And,
God is not a chatterbox, he is a God of action. He is a God of manifestation who can manifest something to your reality that says more than a million words could ever say.
And, we have his actual words in the Bible too. That is where we see God talking in words.
Of course if one does not believe the words in the Bible are God's words, then, they will say God does not ever speak in words.
Last Edited by Jonathan on 11/6/2009 at 5:17 PM |
| Major
User ID: 647112
11/6/2009 5:32 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
I am sure that you mean well, but the idea you posted as God being mean and vengengful in the Old Test. and "good" in the New Test. is simply a lack of Bible reading with understanding. Nothing cdould be further from the truth of Scripture.
Please do not mistake my user name as someone who is young and misinformed. World religions has been a personal interest and study for over thirty years.
I have read the bible, and had instruction from quite a few experts on the subject.
The bible was written by men, purporting to be the word of God. Not all of it is. If you want to talk about truth in the scripture, perhaps you could post some links of your own to verify your statements. This is a debate and a discussion, with ideas thrown open for examination and links to further the discussion.
Otherwise, it is just you and Jonathon stating your opinions, which is okay in an open forum, but not really adding anything to the debate.
Yes the Bible was written by men.
Any links I give will be the Scriptures themselves.
(2 Tim. 3:16)
"ALL Scripture ( This was the OLD TEST. as the New had not yet been written and cannonized) is given by inspiration from God".
Psalms 119:32
"I will run the way of thy commandments when thou shalt enlarge my heart".
Psalms 149:4
"For the Lord taketh pleasure in His people, He will beautify the meek with salvation". |
| Major
User ID: 647112
11/6/2009 5:45 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
So then as many of us already knew, IT IS YOUR OPINION.
Now the question must be.....why do you think your opinion is worthy of belief???
If you won't grant the courtesy of respecting HT's opinions, why would you think you deserve the same? Quoting: lil*miss
I did not say I didnt repect his opinion. If fact I said....
"With all due respect" to him.
As far as MY opinions... I speak of the Bible and its message to all of us. That is not an opinion, that is a process of teaching from an authoratative source of proven
statements.
I also at one time thought to apply my intelligence to the Word of God. What a mistake that was!!
Listen, the Bible, ALL of it is the Word of God OR none of it is the Word of God. There is no middle ground here. It is your choice. If anyone does not want or choose to believe anything I try to expand upon.....no problem with me....see ya later. Your problem is not with me but a lot higher up on the ladder. |
| Major
User ID: 647112
11/6/2009 5:50 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking or not, and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.
By the way if Jesus thought like you in 30AD, there would be no New Covenant...think about it. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
WRONG.
What anyone thinks or does, God keeps right on working His plan.
The New Covenant was the plan of God before the foundation of the world was laid my friend. |
| Major
User ID: 647112
11/6/2009 5:53 PM | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
I am sure that you mean well, but the idea you posted as God being mean and vengengful in the Old Test. and "good" in the New Test. is simply a lack of Bible reading with understanding. Nothing cdould be further from the truth of Scripture.
Please do not mistake my user name as someone who is young and misinformed. World religions has been a personal interest and study for over thirty years.
I have read the bible, and had instruction from quite a few experts on the subject.
The bible was written by men, purporting to be the word of God. Not all of it is. If you want to talk about truth in the scripture, perhaps you could post some links of your own to verify your statements. This is a debate and a discussion, with ideas thrown open for examination and links to further the discussion.
Otherwise, it is just you and Jonathon stating your opinions, which is okay in an open forum, but not really adding anything to the debate.
And everyone therefore now takes your opinion,as what? Gospel, because you say so, and then attempt to wield your authority based on other pointless tomes of opinion about some theory, that a hater of God has , so in wanting to disprove God, His word etc, by attacking what appears to be the weak spot. It is not worthy of good comment, as even the wicked spirits fear and tremble for very good reason/s, so for a still mortal to claim divine egress because of what?, mental superiority, that your opinion should be lauded and bandied about as supreme, pulease. You are dust, as are we all till we are changed like Him. A day not so far away, the more you lead others astray the worse your own fate will be, for it is evident you will be an obedient mark taker, and automatically your opinion is suspect and cant be taken at face value, for you are a slaughter goat prepared to lead the slaughter flock to its fate in the hope your own miserable lust and deeds will be spared, go on be honest then tell us which demons posses you so, that you lie so brazenly, In YAHshua's amen, you to OP.
Whoaaaaaa. Ease up my friend. We are just talking here. Someone needs a nap. |
| MuadDib987 (nli)
User ID: 803462
11/6/2009 5:53 PM
 | | Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic! | Quote |
Its a parable. The first shall be last in this case the rich man. And the last shall be first, in this case the beggar Lazarus.
Some people here need to tighten their screws.
It is not just a parable, it mentions at least one man by name, as God does not lie, to say The man's name is Lazarus, leads to many speculations, but this is for sure, God does not lie, so The beggar was a real man, and as God created hell, His knowing of it and it whereabouts and condition, should not be surprising. Quoting: . 811981
I don't think anyone is accusing God of being a liar, at least on this particular issue. The Lazarus of the parable of the the Rich Man is Eliezer, Abraham's gentile servant, who was legally his heir until he worked himself out of the loop in obediently searching out a suitable bride for Isaac.
The gulf across which the rich man cannot pass is the river Jordan. It's illustration about stewardship, not a literal account of the torture of a literal fiery hell.
Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people. |
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