Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!

Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.


You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.

In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.

Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.


Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


Hi HT...how are ya? Gonna have to disagree with you (surprise). I do talk to God and he DOES answer. Want to know how I know that for sure? Let me put it this way if we are gods or our own rulers, and pray to "ourselves" as many non-believers think then we would always answer ourselves in the way WE wanted to. Not so with Yaweh.

I can't tell you how many times I have asked HIM to help me make decisions, to give me answers, to help me choose what's right and HE always has. I have not always been happy or satisfied with the answers He gave me at the time, but it always turns out to be for the best. Who knows how things would have turned out if I would have chosen MY own way.

You see HT we can and do talk to Yaweh and HE does answer. Most people are just too wrapped up in other distractions that they don't take the time to hear HIM.

page 21 is my favorite so far

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.



What did Jesus correct?

Your doctrines built upon a fall or original sin are not even true, hence the whole of your religion and the jesus as a savior is null and void!!

There was no fall, nor any original sin!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.



What did Jesus correct?

Your doctrines built upon a fall or original sin are not even true, hence the whole of your religion and the jesus as a savior is null and void!!

There was no fall, nor any original sin!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


See. This is exactly why I posted earlier that Jesus did NOT CORRECT ANYTHING. I knew someone whould try and turn that statement around. If He correct it, then it had to be broken, hence the Bible is false, hence God is a liar and on and on and on it goes.

There was nothing to be corrected!

Jesus coming fulfilled the promise of God in Genesis 3:15 when He said a Savior was to come because of mans disobedience........SIN......Mans fall from perfection.

To deny original sin is to deny that you are a sinner.

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.


Man, honestly if I wanted to discuss mainstream theology I would be at theoweb right now...

But for discussion sake, no one implied God "broke" anything...what Jesus,Isaiah,Jeremiah implied is that the whole system of worship was corrupted by the Kings or Priestly class, God did not screw up, Aaron, Moses, etc screwed it up. They misunderstood the directions, their system to not lead to heart felt repentance. God would have nothing to do with it, and was displeased with it.

11 "The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?" says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?

13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your evil assemblies.

Stop doing wrong,
17 learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed. [a]
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.


Also, according to mainline Trinitarians, Jesus is not the Father, and Father is not Jesus, separate but of the same substance (God the Son, God the Father), so Jesus never "gave" anything to "anyone" in the OT.

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.



What did Jesus correct?

Your doctrines built upon a fall or original sin are not even true, hence the whole of your religion and the jesus as a savior is null and void!!

There was no fall, nor any original sin!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


See. This is exactly why I posted earlier that Jesus did NOT CORRECT ANYTHING. I knew someone whould try and turn that statement around. If He correct it, then it had to be broken, hence the Bible is false, hence God is a liar and on and on and on it goes.

There was nothing to be corrected!

Jesus coming fulfilled the promise of God in Genesis 3:15 when He said a Savior was to come because of mans disobedience........SIN......Mans fall from perfection.

To deny original sin is to deny that you are a sinner.


I'm not a sinner and we were never created perfect!!

You do not create spiritual beings to till the ground, and since we were taken from the dust to begin with, there is only one way to go, and that is upwards, as was the case in Eden!!


___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.



What did Jesus correct?

Your doctrines built upon a fall or original sin are not even true, hence the whole of your religion and the jesus as a savior is null and void!!

There was no fall, nor any original sin!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


See. This is exactly why I posted earlier that Jesus did NOT CORRECT ANYTHING. I knew someone whould try and turn that statement around. If He correct it, then it had to be broken, hence the Bible is false, hence God is a liar and on and on and on it goes.

There was nothing to be corrected!

Jesus coming fulfilled the promise of God in Genesis 3:15 when He said a Savior was to come because of mans disobedience........SIN......Mans fall from perfection.

To deny original sin is to deny that you are a sinner.


I'm not a sinner and we were never created perfect!!

You do not create spiritual beings to till the ground, and since we were taken from the dust to begin with, there is only one way to go, and that is upwards, as was the case in Eden!!


___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


Aren't you gald you ran across me HT???

You see, we were created perfect. Adam had no sin in him. He lived in a perfect world. He and his lovely bride had a perfect home. You see, God has no sin and everyhting He does is good. He created everything and said, "IT IS GOOD".

That is when Satan tempted them and they failed the test of obedience. SIN means to "MISS THE MARK".

Yes YOU are a sinner. You can deny it all you want to, but everyone knows what they are. In fact, the one who denies the loundest the usely the worst of all.

You don't want to debate, you want to be right. Okay, you're right. You win.



Jonathan will never be right!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

So you believe Yahweh is one of the evil guys who won? And the Hebrews (Druid or not) are his people?


You know this YHVH was one of the bad guys, neither his attitude or actions portray any kind of loving diviness!!

Have you the guts to admit it?
___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!




I have the guts to admit that you are a mind controlled monkey, possibly a multiple that is a good puppett for the powers that be, and although you always deny the evidence against you, you have adopted a Satanic philosophy and a blasphemous attitude toward anything Holy, just and good. The light that is in thee is Darkness, and so everything you know and understand, is based upon the darkness.

This darkness that you are in has blinded you to the truth and is reprobating your mind to accept the lie as the truth as do all Satanist initiates that undergo Satanic programming...just as my only son did. That is how I can easily identify it.

You have triggers that will continue to "lie and deny" the truth about your programming or your multiple personalities, if they are ever uncovered, chances are they will eventually drive you to commit suicide as a means to protect the identity of your programmers.

You operate just like a programmed multiple, you always vere toward works that have been wroght by the Darkness, and you feel more comfortable with that darkness than you do the truth. You have believed the lie is the truth and the truth is the lie...just as all programmed multiples, just like my only son.


But God created evil, no?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do these things.



Since when does a spiritual retard correctly interpret the spiritual word of God?



(The answer: never)

Please keep posting Hard Truth. I am interested in what you have to say even if the others are not. Peace.

Actually, I believe that I knew that. But I don't believe that is the question.

O goody, we are now in the presence of a big lie, so lets get this a straight as possible. You foreknew that was going to put in print, so that's why you posted it after he wrote it?
I see hindsight is so not foretelling or prophesy.


Holy crap, dude, if you're so sure she's a witch, maybe you should round up your pitchfork mob and get the torches going?

Ease up.

If you are still seeking those answers, and you did not find them in the Bible, and have not yet found them elsewhere....how does that translate to your every day life?

If you still don't know why we are here, why God put us here, and where God is.....how do you really know what to do with your life? Do you do what you think or guess that God would want you to do? If so, what is that exactly?

Is that too personal?


Not at all. I believe that we were put here, as a test, by the Collective Consciousness of the Universe (The One you call God). If we are worthy, and pass the test, we will be free to join with It when we die. If not, we must return until we have sufficient knowledge to pass the test.

I am on a personal quest to ensure that I have enough information to complete my spiritual journey.

What you do here on earth matters. I can not stress that enough.

Do you follow the guidelines for living? In the bible they are spelled out as the ten commandments. Those commandments are echoed in various forms throughout most of the major world religions. They don't vary a lot.

Follow your life the way Jesus tells you to. He is an acknowledged prophet by more than one world religion.

Verification from different sources is important to me. If more than one religious source cites information, then it tells a truth throughout time that can not be ignored.

And I don't believe in the Rapture. I believe in personal accountability. God is not going to come down here and Rapture people out of this mess. We created it. One of the ultimate tests by the Creator is whether we have the strength and will to do what is right, and get the job done.

One of the things Jesus preached was the golden rule. Do unto others as you would have done to yourself. Love one another, take care of one another. Don't be greedy and take things for yourself you don't need, and allow others to go hungry.

The world would be a very different place if we just did what we were told to do in the beginning.

I am working toward my own spiritual goals, and HT is an excellent source for those with unanswered questions.

Peace.


I'm just asking.... If you are looking for answers to your spiritual questions, WHY ARE YOU ASKING SOMEONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE IN SPIRITUAL MATTERS.

God is a Spirit and HD has rejected God.

I love you but your reasoning makes me concerned.

So you believe Yahweh is one of the evil guys who won? And the Hebrews (Druid or not) are his people?


You know this YHVH was one of the bad guys, neither his attitude or actions portray any kind of loving diviness!!

Have you the guts to admit it?
___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!




I have the guts to admit that you are a mind controlled monkey, possibly a multiple that is a good puppett for the powers that be, and although you always deny the evidence against you, you have adopted a Satanic philosophy and a blasphemous attitude toward anything Holy, just and good. The light that is in thee is Darkness, and so everything you know and understand, is based upon the darkness.

This darkness that you are in has blinded you to the truth and is reprobating your mind to accept the lie as the truth as do all Satanist initiates that undergo Satanic programming...just as my only son did. That is how I can easily identify it.

You have triggers that will continue to "lie and deny" the truth about your programming or your multiple personalities, if they are ever uncovered, chances are they will eventually drive you to commit suicide as a means to protect the identity of your programmers.

You operate just like a programmed multiple, you always vere toward works that have been wroght by the Darkness, and you feel more comfortable with that darkness than you do the truth. You have believed the lie is the truth and the truth is the lie...just as all programmed multiples, just like my only son.


But God created evil, no?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do these things.



Since when does a spiritual retard correctly interpret the spiritual word of God?



(The answer: never)

So what, in your opinion WingedLion, would be the correct interpretation of Isaiah 45:7?

So you believe Yahweh is one of the evil guys who won? And the Hebrews (Druid or not) are his people?


You know this YHVH was one of the bad guys, neither his attitude or actions portray any kind of loving diviness!!

Have you the guts to admit it?
___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!




I have the guts to admit that you are a mind controlled monkey, possibly a multiple that is a good puppett for the powers that be, and although you always deny the evidence against you, you have adopted a Satanic philosophy and a blasphemous attitude toward anything Holy, just and good. The light that is in thee is Darkness, and so everything you know and understand, is based upon the darkness.

This darkness that you are in has blinded you to the truth and is reprobating your mind to accept the lie as the truth as do all Satanist initiates that undergo Satanic programming...just as my only son did. That is how I can easily identify it.

You have triggers that will continue to "lie and deny" the truth about your programming or your multiple personalities, if they are ever uncovered, chances are they will eventually drive you to commit suicide as a means to protect the identity of your programmers.

You operate just like a programmed multiple, you always vere toward works that have been wroght by the Darkness, and you feel more comfortable with that darkness than you do the truth. You have believed the lie is the truth and the truth is the lie...just as all programmed multiples, just like my only son.


But God created evil, no?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do these things.



Since when does a spiritual retard correctly interpret the spiritual word of God?



(The answer: never)

So what, in your opinion WingedLion, would be the correct interpretation of Isaiah 45:7?



Not winged lion but here goes:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create (cut down - as wood) evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word 'create' has an interesting meaning when you check out the true meaning.

baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch.

It does not mean that God makes evil, it means that He 'cuts it down' (destroys it).

Not winged lion but here goes:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create (cut down - as wood) evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word 'create' has an interesting meaning when you check out the true meaning.

baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch.

It does not mean that God makes evil, it means that He 'cuts it down' (destroys it).

So you believe Yahweh is one of the evil guys who won? And the Hebrews (Druid or not) are his people?


You know this YHVH was one of the bad guys, neither his attitude or actions portray any kind of loving diviness!!

Have you the guts to admit it?
___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!




I have the guts to admit that you are a mind controlled monkey, possibly a multiple that is a good puppett for the powers that be, and although you always deny the evidence against you, you have adopted a Satanic philosophy and a blasphemous attitude toward anything Holy, just and good. The light that is in thee is Darkness, and so everything you know and understand, is based upon the darkness.

This darkness that you are in has blinded you to the truth and is reprobating your mind to accept the lie as the truth as do all Satanist initiates that undergo Satanic programming...just as my only son did. That is how I can easily identify it.

You have triggers that will continue to "lie and deny" the truth about your programming or your multiple personalities, if they are ever uncovered, chances are they will eventually drive you to commit suicide as a means to protect the identity of your programmers.

You operate just like a programmed multiple, you always vere toward works that have been wroght by the Darkness, and you feel more comfortable with that darkness than you do the truth. You have believed the lie is the truth and the truth is the lie...just as all programmed multiples, just like my only son.


But God created evil, no?

Isaiah 45:7

I form the light and create darkness. I make peace and create evil. I the Lord do these things.



Since when does a spiritual retard correctly interpret the spiritual word of God?



(The answer: never)

So what, in your opinion WingedLion, would be the correct interpretation of Isaiah 45:7?



Not winged lion but here goes:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create (cut down - as wood) evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word 'create' has an interesting meaning when you check out the true meaning.

baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch.

It does not mean that God makes evil, it means that He 'cuts it down' (destroys it).


I agree. Most read the Bible without understanding it's TRUE meaning. I too admit that when I first started to read it, I was confused. It wasn't until the last few years that I starting reading it along with a concordance. Makes a lot of sense now, and it rocks! :)

I agree. Most read the Bible without understanding it's TRUE meaning. I too admit that when I first started to read it, I was confused. It wasn't until the last few years that I starting reading it along with a concordance. Makes a lot of sense now, and it rocks! :)

Not winged lion but here goes:

Isa 45:7 I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create (cut down - as wood) evil: I the LORD do all these things.

The word 'create' has an interesting meaning when you check out the true meaning.

baw-raw'
A primitive root; (absolutely) to create; (qualified) to cut down (a wood), select, feed (as formative processes): - choose, create (creator), cut down, dispatch.

It does not mean that God makes evil, it means that He 'cuts it down' (destroys it).


Yes, it is amazing, but I am beginning to see the truth in what HT says.

Language has been corrupted through centuries, words we use today have an entirely different meaning than they did when they were written. And a lot of the original words used are obsolete.

If the experts are still untangling the meaning of archaic words, and disagree on the meaning, how is an ordinary person to understand it?

We can only fumble along, hoping we are right. But must be prepared for the consequences if we are not.

I agree. Most read the Bible without understanding it's TRUE meaning. I too admit that when I first started to read it, I was confused. It wasn't until the last few years that I starting reading it along with a concordance. Makes a lot of sense now, and it rocks! :)


Hey Tx, how are you? We haven't chatted for a while. What is the concordance that you use?

Question, where they speaking in hell to each other, or looking across to each other in heaven from one side of the gulf to the other side of the gulf?


I do not have the knowledge to answer this, can someone else please help Little Star?



Its a parable. The first shall be last in this case the rich man. And the last shall be first, in this case the beggar Lazarus.

Some people here need to tighten their screws.

It is not just a parable, it mentions at least one man by name, as God does not lie, to say The man's name is Lazarus, leads to many speculations, but this is for sure, God does not lie, so The beggar was a real man, and as God created hell, His knowing of it and it whereabouts and condition, should not be surprising.


Hmmmm....the Bosom of Abraham according to Jewish legend is a separate place from Heaven, for Jews to infer that humans were let into heaven at the time would be blasphemous, as Heaven is reserved for God, and God only - or we could get into a whole other diatribe in that part of Jesus' mission was setting up a Heaven were our souls could live on, but this would also involve setting up a Hell in balancing out the equation, we ignore that throughout the OT God affirms that "the dead know nothing" and we "sleep in the dust"

anyhow, i could go on for days but dont want to get fired.

If you go by the bible, God has killed way more people than the devil and caused way more hardship. Why would anybody want to worship such a horrendous beast?


WRONG.

This show your complete ignorance of Scripture and Biblical theology.

EVERY SINGLE DEATH TO EVER HAPPEN IS BECAUSE OF SATAN.
Satan brought sin into the world and all men are sinners. The wages of sin is death but THE GIFT OF GOD IS ETERNAL LIFE IN HEAVEN.


Not even close to correct grasshopper, but keep on spreading those false doctrines and push humankind back to the dark ages where folks such as yourself can keep all of us sinners in fear of the afterlife!!

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.


Man, honestly if I wanted to discuss mainstream theology I would be at theoweb right now...

But for discussion sake, no one implied God "broke" anything...what Jesus,Isaiah,Jeremiah implied is that the whole system of worship was corrupted by the Kings or Priestly class, God did not screw up, Aaron, Moses, etc screwed it up. They misunderstood the directions, their system to not lead to heart felt repentance. God would have nothing to do with it, and was displeased with it.

11 "The multitude of your sacrifices—
what are they to me?" says the LORD.
"I have more than enough of burnt offerings,
of rams and the fat of fattened animals;
I have no pleasure
in the blood of bulls and lambs and goats.

12 When you come to appear before me,
who has asked this of you,
this trampling of my courts?

13 Stop bringing meaningless offerings!
Your incense is detestable to me.
New Moons, Sabbaths and convocations—
I cannot bear your evil assemblies.

Stop doing wrong,
17 learn to do right!
Seek justice,
encourage the oppressed. [a]
Defend the cause of the fatherless,
plead the case of the widow.


Also, according to mainline Trinitarians, Jesus is not the Father, and Father is not Jesus, separate but of the same substance (God the Son, God the Father), so Jesus never "gave" anything to "anyone" in the OT.



OK. If that is the case, who was it that created Adam.
Who created Eve. Wasnt she a GIFT to Adam?

If that is true, who was it that spoke to Moses from the burning bush. Wasn't the end result GINING of the Law?

Want to go on??


Actually Lilith was created first and refused to be in subjection to Adam according the jewish legends!!

She refused to return to Eden even after adam moaned and groaned and god sent angels to retrieve her, so he just made Eve instead to shut adam up!!

Amazing all the info left out of the bible!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

Summary: love and forgivness is what make demons shudder, not blind faith.


You think faith is blind? Why is that? Because God is not in a physical body walking around on earth at this exact moment? He is very much alive, well, and present on earth in a different form presently, but, he is still right here. Always has been.

In order to even have faith in a person, you have to first believe and know for sure that they actually exist. Faith in Godly terms is trust in a person. Not trusting that this person may exist.

Now belief can at times be blind. That is a horse of a different color.


Yes it is blind faith, and we all know those of you who claim to talk WITH god or the fictional character Jesus are just plain lying!!
___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!

Okay, so the OT and the New don't 'jive' for you and you see some inconsistency. I can understand that as I myself held that view point at one time in my life. I have since changed my mind, due to closer examination.

What it comes down to is one of two choices:

1. The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

2. The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.

Now, if the Bible is in fact the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety, then every word applies to you like it or not. If it is not, then you have no worries at all when it comes to what the Bible says in parts you may not 'like' or find 'inconsistent.'

But, I could say to you: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily untrue. It only means you think it isn't true.

Likewise you could say to me: just because a person sees something in their own way does not mean that it is necessarily true.

And, you would be correct in saying so.

It does not really matter in the end to anybody but ourselves. I will not be there when you die to tell you I was right or wrong. LOL.

What is important is that God said he sent his perfect word. I did not say it, God did. So, telling me that the bible is inconsistent really is not going to prove anything at all. Nor is my telling you it is consistent going to prove anything. It's either God talking, or not and you have to decide that for yourself. So do I.


So Jeremiah was wrong? Isaiah was wrong? Paul was wrong? Jesus was wrong?

God didnt pen the Torah, scribes under kings did, you think they didnt add un-needed yokes, bull crap laws, false tales of violence which glorified the military might of tiny Israel???


Look, the truth is....that we could go on and on here quoting Scripture, arguing about this verse and that person, etc. And, at the end of all that back and forth, you know what?

I will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'

You will leave here today still believing this:

'The Bible is not the complete and perfect word of God in it's entirety.'


I said it is complete because Jesus corrected it.

If Jesus never came, would you follow Judaism?


That is a "Straw Man" argument. He did and I did.

Think about what you are saying.How could Jesus "correct" what He already had given? The implication is that by saying, "corrected it", it was broken and needed to be fixed.

If you have never read about or studied the doctrine of "Dispensationalism" I would highly reccomend it to you.
It will explain why nothing was broken, only events in time which were implimented by God.



What did Jesus correct?

Your doctrines built upon a fall or original sin are not even true, hence the whole of your religion and the jesus as a savior is null and void!!

There was no fall, nor any original sin!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


See. This is exactly why I posted earlier that Jesus did NOT CORRECT ANYTHING. I knew someone whould try and turn that statement around. If He correct it, then it had to be broken, hence the Bible is false, hence God is a liar and on and on and on it goes.

There was nothing to be corrected!

Jesus coming fulfilled the promise of God in Genesis 3:15 when He said a Savior was to come because of mans disobedience........SIN......Mans fall from perfection.

To deny original sin is to deny that you are a sinner.


I'm not a sinner and we were never created perfect!!

You do not create spiritual beings to till the ground, and since we were taken from the dust to begin with, there is only one way to go, and that is upwards, as was the case in Eden!!


___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!


Aren't you gald you ran across me HT???

You see, we were created perfect. Adam had no sin in him. He lived in a perfect world. He and his lovely bride had a perfect home. You see, God has no sin and everyhting He does is good. He created everything and said, "IT IS GOOD".

That is when Satan tempted them and they failed the test of obedience. SIN means to "MISS THE MARK".

Yes YOU are a sinner. You can deny it all you want to, but everyone knows what they are. In fact, the one who denies the loundest the usely the worst of all.


Noooo, I am not a sinner, but go right ahead and be one if that is your desire!!

I have long discarded the false doctrines of christianity long ago, and there isn't a human alive that can sell me that B.S. ever again!!

I've done my homework, I suggest you do the same!!

___________

If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!