As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
Quoting: Jonathan
O my goodness did you ever say the right thing.
When you are in the presense of greatness, whether it be sports, or theology, or just the guy doing his job.....you will always know it, not because he tells you but because his actions do so.
And another thing I noticed is that YOU are always more important than THEY are.
In my lifetime, I have had the extreme opportunity of meeting some of those people.
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Well then how do you explain all of the copy and pasting???
That is not YOUR homework my friend.
Quoting: Major 647112
My homework has been the same years before I posted a link to the original article, and discussed in detail here on GLP for years now!!
Shall I reinvent the wheel while I'm at it?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
I remember a very wise man saying a long time ago......
"You will know them by their fruits"!
heh heh heh. True.
Quoting: Jonathan
Yes, lets talk about knowing them by their fruits!!
Over two thousand years of the tribulation is here or christ is coming, and the rapture right around the corner having failed...lol, you're nothing but false prophets!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
final hard truth
here it is; if you're not gonna turn you're just gonna burn.
Quoting: mock this 810372
Amen, Brother! High-five! GLORY!
=D
I'm gonna toss this in there, even though I can't guarantee its validity - it might just be made-up slander to trick us out of betting everything on our favorite government-issued book. . .
<< The Doctrine of Biblical Inerrancy. This doctrine has caused Christian leaders to have to outright lie to maintain their position. They have to take plain facts and hide them from their followers. Because they have locked themselves into the teaching that the King James Bible is "the inerrant" translation of the "so-called" original texts, they have locked themselves into a position where lying, distorting, and name calling are the only options left to maintain their ground. They say the 66 books of the present King James Bible are inerrant, but they don't tell you it lacks 14 entire books which were in the original King James of 1611. They don't tell you the King James Bible has been changed many times in the last 350 years and there have been thousands of corrections! They don't tell you the King James Bible was never authorized by anyone. They don't tell you the original KJV had a calendar of annual Holy days which all believers were to follow such as: Purification of the virgin Mary, annunciation of our Lady, Innocents day, etc.. They don't tell you the Greek text used by the King James translators produced by Erasmus, a Roman Catholic humanist monk, did not have manuscripts that contained all 27 books of the New Testament, so he borrowed out of the Latin Catholic Vulgate! No, they can't tell you these things because that would be the end of the lie which has kept them in business. >> Please pray for me: I used to be a Good Christian™, until I got a hold of some kind of fruity "love" bullshit and decided I need to be less harsh on people.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 4:41 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
I don't see the big deal, throughout the OT the singular God is constantly referred to as the LORD OF HOSTS - which infers there are other God-like beings who He is King over. Furthermore, the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) does a good job in translating the plural to "divine beings" -
I know most Christians like pointing this out to be the Trinity, but that is back tracking a little bit and is not necessary to believe in Jesus and is a bit disrespectful to the original authors.
Let us look at the book of Enoch, which clearly states there was more than one Satan!!
Book of Enoch: Chapter 65
6 ....... concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, (plural) and all their powers -the most secret ones
The Satans were the 1/3 of the flesh and blood elohim that defected and took earthly wives!!
The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...
The Nephelim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the benei Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them—they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name. (Gen. 6:2,4) Interlinear Hebrew Bible
According to the Babylonian Talmudic text these are some of the names of the 200 elohim who defected!!
Those who defected had the EL in the singular as a suffix added to their names to denote part of the original Elohim!!
LOL...now who wants to convince me that Satan had over a hundred different names in just one culture alone?
The christians bible list several of the elohim by name with the El as a prefix to denote the non-fallen original Elohim!!
El Echad. (Mal. 2:10)
El Hanne'eman. (Deut. 7:9)
El Emet. (Ps. 31:5)
El Tsaddik. (Isa. 45:21)
El Shaddai. Occurs 48 times in the Tanakh, Abraham actually referred to his god as El Shaddai!!
El Elyon. (Gen. 14:20; Ps. 9:2).
El Olam. (Gen. 21:33, Ps. 90:1-3, 93:2; Isa. 26:4).
El Roi. (Gen. 16:13).
El Yeshurun.
The God of Jeshurun (Deut. 32:15; 33:5,26; Isa. 44:2).
El Gibbor. (Isa. 9:6).
El De'ot. (1 Sam. 2:3).
El Hakkavod. (Ps. 29:3).
El Hakkadosh. (Sometimes transliterated Hakadosh). (Isa. 5:16).
El Hashamayim. (Ps. 136:26
El Chaiyai. (Ps. 42:8).
El-Channun. (Jonah 4:2).
El Yisrael. (Ps. 68:36).
El Sali. (Ps. 42:9
El Erekh Apayim avi ha-tanchumim. (Romans 15:5)
El Rachum. (Deut. 4:31).
El malei Rachamim
El Yeshuati
El Yeshuatenu
El-Kanno.
The Jealous God (Exod. 20:5; 34:14; Num. 5:14, 30; Deut. 4:24; 5:9; 6:15; Jos. 24:19; 1 Ki. 19:10, 14; Ezek. 39:25; Joel 2:18; Nah. 1:2; Zech. 1:14; 8:2).
El Hannora. (Neh. 9:32)
Taught in chritian religion as all being the name of god in his different aspects, and quite untrue!!
Folks, the elohim were many in their numbers!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Lets NOT look at the book of Enoch, either 1, 2 simply because they are not considered inspired and are not in the cannon of Scriptures.
Now you know why.
By the way... the word "TRINITY" appears 12 times in the Tanakh. Does that mean you believe in the Trinity now????
And the list of names you posted as being the names of Satan is another example of FRAUD. DECEPTION.
You better do some more home work HD. You as do many others assume that the "daughters of men" had sex with the "sons of God" producing demonic offspring. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE as Matthew 22:30 tells us that angels both good and bad are ASEXUAL. They can not have sex so they can not re-roduce. ALL angels were created being with the ability of freedom of choice.
The people you listed are the names of "men of a name" or "Renown". They were human beings. Princes who did terrible things.
Read the Bible!!! It is all there for you to know.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
What a joke you folks are!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Lots of people claim superior knowledge, enlightenment, and spiritual discernment. That is why I asked the still unanswered question above.
You did not bother to ask me if I thought myself superior. But, you sure did not hesitate to accuse me of it.
Could you have answered the question and added the insults? Why just go with insults? Did you not want to say outright you thought yourself superior to me?
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 4:44 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
nice post HT. I thought El Shaddai was not a name, but title. Lord Almighty. But I see your point, God is representative of multiple Good Gods, and Satan of multiple Bad Gods.
I think its also interesting, that when Abraham was making his way towards the Promised Land, he would pay homage to the Gods of the lands that he was passing through - clearly demonstrating that each EL claimed a peoples and land. Yahweh also seems to stress that he is the God of Israel, and Israel only. It is not until the later books, that he is specified as the creator of the universe by David and the Prophets. This all falls into place perfectly in the tribal context of the times, "my God can beat your God"
Also whats your op on the Book of Job?
Exactly, and if you will notice one of the defectors name was IZr-ael, no doubt the chosen god of Israel named after their real false god!!
I have no opinion on the book of Job, other than the evil manipulations of a false god torturing an innocent man to prove to the other false gods his supremacy over another!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Well then, there is an opportunity for you to do some of your "homework" then. Read it my friend. You will find many things in it. You will even find the answer to the "Sons of God" problem you have.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 4:52 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
The root word "shadad" (שדד) means "to overpower" or "to destroy". This would give Shaddai the meaning of "destroyer", representing one of the aspects of God, and in this context it is essentially an epithet.
No doubt!!
Satan = gods of war. It is only those that are extremely opposite of peace, love and harmony that would be defined as "Satans".
The LORD is a man of war: the LORD is his name. (Ex. 15:3)
How reveling is this....lol?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Indeed!
And for arguments sake what do Fundies make of John 1:18
"No man hath seen God at any time, the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
So then who exactly did Moses commune with on Sinai???
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
While on Mt. Sinai Moses asked God, "Show me thy glory. And (God) said, I will make all my goodness pass before thee...and he said, Thou canst not see my face; for man shall not see me and live...and thou shalt see my back: but my face shall not be seen" (Ex. 33:18-23). When God spoke to Moses "face to face" He spoke as "a man unto his friend," i.e., familiarly (Ex. 33:11). When Moses spoke of "Jehovah (being) seen face to face" by the Hebrews, he explains, "and thy cloud standeth over them, and thou goest before them, in a pillar of fire by night" (Num. 14:14). What they saw was the pillar of fire and the cloud, not the Spirit presence of Jehovah.
Since no two passages of Scripture, if correctly understood, will contradict each other, we must conclude that when the Bible speaks of people seeing God, they did not look upon his pure essence of deity. That man cannot do and live. We are told that God is a Spirit (John 4:24) and thus invisible (I Tim. 1:17). What these people saw was either 1). A vision or dream of God (Isaiah and Daniel) or 2). A theophany (a divine manifestation), that is God’s special angel, the one known as the Word, took the appearance of a man and came down to interact with His people. As sinful mortals we cannot look upon the pure deity of our Creator and live, thus he mercifully does not provide us that opportunity.
I don't see the big deal, throughout the OT the singular God is constantly referred to as the LORD OF HOSTS - which infers there are other God-like beings who He is King over. Furthermore, the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) does a good job in translating the plural to "divine beings" -
I know most Christians like pointing this out to be the Trinity, but that is back tracking a little bit and is not necessary to believe in Jesus and is a bit disrespectful to the original authors.
Let us look at the book of Enoch, which clearly states there was more than one Satan!!
Book of Enoch: Chapter 65
6 ....... concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, (plural) and all their powers -the most secret ones
The Satans were the 1/3 of the flesh and blood elohim that defected and took earthly wives!!
The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...
The Nephelim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the benei Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them—they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name. (Gen. 6:2,4) Interlinear Hebrew Bible
According to the Babylonian Talmudic text these are some of the names of the 200 elohim who defected!!
Those who defected had the EL in the singular as a suffix added to their names to denote part of the original Elohim!!
LOL...now who wants to convince me that Satan had over a hundred different names in just one culture alone?
The christians bible list several of the elohim by name with the El as a prefix to denote the non-fallen original Elohim!!
El Echad. (Mal. 2:10)
El Hanne'eman. (Deut. 7:9)
El Emet. (Ps. 31:5)
El Tsaddik. (Isa. 45:21)
El Shaddai. Occurs 48 times in the Tanakh, Abraham actually referred to his god as El Shaddai!!
El Elyon. (Gen. 14:20; Ps. 9:2).
El Olam. (Gen. 21:33, Ps. 90:1-3, 93:2; Isa. 26:4).
El Roi. (Gen. 16:13).
El Yeshurun.
The God of Jeshurun (Deut. 32:15; 33:5,26; Isa. 44:2).
El Gibbor. (Isa. 9:6).
El De'ot. (1 Sam. 2:3).
El Hakkavod. (Ps. 29:3).
El Hakkadosh. (Sometimes transliterated Hakadosh). (Isa. 5:16).
El Hashamayim. (Ps. 136:26
El Chaiyai. (Ps. 42:8).
El-Channun. (Jonah 4:2).
El Yisrael. (Ps. 68:36).
El Sali. (Ps. 42:9
El Erekh Apayim avi ha-tanchumim. (Romans 15:5)
El Rachum. (Deut. 4:31).
El malei Rachamim
El Yeshuati
El Yeshuatenu
El-Kanno.
The Jealous God (Exod. 20:5; 34:14; Num. 5:14, 30; Deut. 4:24; 5:9; 6:15; Jos. 24:19; 1 Ki. 19:10, 14; Ezek. 39:25; Joel 2:18; Nah. 1:2; Zech. 1:14; 8:2).
El Hannora. (Neh. 9:32)
Taught in chritian religion as all being the name of god in his different aspects, and quite untrue!!
Folks, the elohim were many in their numbers!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Lets NOT look at the book of Enoch, either 1, 2 simply because they are not considered inspired and are not in the cannon of Scriptures.
Now you know why.
By the way... the word "TRINITY" appears 12 times in the Tanakh. Does that mean you believe in the Trinity now????
And the list of names you posted as being the names of Satan is another example of FRAUD. DECEPTION.
You better do some more home work HD. You as do many others assume that the "daughters of men" had sex with the "sons of God" producing demonic offspring. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE as Matthew 22:30 tells us that angels both good and bad are ASEXUAL. They can not have sex so they can not re-roduce. ALL angels were created being with the ability of freedom of choice.
The people you listed are the names of "men of a name" or "Renown". They were human beings. Princes who did terrible things.
Read the Bible!!! It is all there for you to know.
Matthew 22:30///look it up, read it.
Quoting: Major 647112
I hate to break it to you, but your bible is not inspired either, at least not by anything divine grasshopper!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 4:58 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
OP, have you ever 'converted' anybody? If you don't like the word convert...has anyone ever bought your shtick about the TRUE CREATORS, and actually changed their life to accommodate that?
Actually there have been many, and before my demise hopefully many more!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Many? Like more than 10? More than 20? More than 100?
How did you do that? Did they see how together your life is and ask what you have because they wanted it too? Did you tell them about your beliefs and they said "Wow, that makes sense?"
Other? How did you convert people?
As you well know, deprogramming is a long and tedious process, I have no powers as to convert millions at a time!!
Speaking of powers, how about you, walking on water yet, or healing the sick, or feeding the hungry from one loaf of bread, as was promised by your jesus that you and his followers would do all the works of his plus more!!
How's that working out for you?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
NOPE! Once again you have quoted as an atheist only what you want to be seen.
Jonathon does not have the power to walk on water and I can assure you for him he dosent want to. He doesnt need to.
Christ changed his black heart of sin to white and threw away his rags and gave him a white robe and a crown.
The works you misquoted WERE in fact done by the ones He said would do them and that was His Apostles.
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
O my goodness did you ever say the right thing.
When you are in the presense of greatness, whether it be sports, or theology, or just the guy doing his job.....you will always know it, not because he tells you but because his actions do so.
And another thing I noticed is that YOU are always more important than THEY are.
In my lifetime, I have had the extreme opportunity of meeting some of those people.
Quoting: Major 647112
Funny though, the great people I know are of little worldly means, and not who the world says is 'great.' It happens that they are also people who love the Lord.
That makes sense because the more you hang around somebody the more you become like them. If a person is hanging out with Jesus, then they become like Jesus. So, it's not the people who are 'great' really, it's Christ in them that is great. But we can certainly also see the real human change and metamorphosis is also evident in the lives of such people. There is a real and present person of Christ working, and outsiders can see and witness him on earth working and speaking through people's lives.
That is when a person becomes a living testimony. The word 'Jesus' does not necessarily even need to be uttered to witness.
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Yes and if you look hard enough you will find a prostitute in the blood line to Jesus. You point being????
My is that God can you anyone to bring glory to Himself and accomplish His plan.
In fact He is using YOU on this site. As you and Christians banter back and forth, the saving grace of Jesus is going out to the world. And that my friend is all that we are called to do....GET OUT THE WORD OF GOD. The rest is up to him. So, thanks a bunch for your help!!!!
OP, have you ever 'converted' anybody? If you don't like the word convert...has anyone ever bought your shtick about the TRUE CREATORS, and actually changed their life to accommodate that?
Actually there have been many, and before my demise hopefully many more!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Many? Like more than 10? More than 20? More than 100?
How did you do that? Did they see how together your life is and ask what you have because they wanted it too? Did you tell them about your beliefs and they said "Wow, that makes sense?"
Other? How did you convert people?
As you well know, deprogramming is a long and tedious process, I have no powers as to convert millions at a time!!
Speaking of powers, how about you, walking on water yet, or healing the sick, or feeding the hungry from one loaf of bread, as was promised by your jesus that you and his followers would do all the works of his plus more!!
How's that working out for you?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
NOPE! Once again you have quoted as an atheist only what you want to be seen.
Jonathon does not have the power to walk on water and I can assure you for him he dosent want to. He doesnt need to.
Christ changed his black heart of sin to white and threw away his rags and gave him a white robe and a crown.
The works you misquoted WERE in fact done by the ones He said would do them and that was His Apostles.
He is in fact doing very well from what I read!!
Quoting: Major 647112
You can love your false gods, false religion, and your failed prophecies till your hearts content!!
You cant sell me your B.S.!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:05 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
OP, have you ever 'converted' anybody? If you don't like the word convert...has anyone ever bought your shtick about the TRUE CREATORS, and actually changed their life to accommodate that?
Where as condemning earnest human beings to eternal hell and gnashing of teeth for not sharing your belief construct is sure to work...if all else fails, use fear...very medieval.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810168
Come on you can do better than that. That one has been used now for a couple thousand years.
IT IS CHOICE! YOU choose where you go, God does not send you! If you had read the BOOK you would not have asked the question.
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
What a joke you folks are!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
ALL people have done that including atheists of all walks of life. Why pidgion hole one when all are guility.
And.....you didnt answer his question, but you did throw up a deflective responce of irrevalance.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:11 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
What a joke you folks are!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
What a joke you folks are!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
ALL people have done that including atheists of all walks of life. Why pidgion hole one when all are guility.
And.....you didnt answer his question, but you did throw up a deflective responce of irrevalance.
Quoting: Major 647112
No, not all are guilty, but you christians sure take the prize!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:12 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Well then how do you explain all of the copy and pasting???
That is not YOUR homework my friend.
My homework has been the same years before I posted a link to the original article, and discussed in detail here on GLP for years now!!
Shall I reinvent the wheel while I'm at it?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
If you can find a picture of it on the internet you probably will.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:15 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
OP, have you ever 'converted' anybody? If you don't like the word convert...has anyone ever bought your shtick about the TRUE CREATORS, and actually changed their life to accommodate that?
Actually there have been many, and before my demise hopefully many more!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Many? Like more than 10? More than 20? More than 100?
How did you do that? Did they see how together your life is and ask what you have because they wanted it too? Did you tell them about your beliefs and they said "Wow, that makes sense?"
Other? How did you convert people?
As you well know, deprogramming is a long and tedious process, I have no powers as to convert millions at a time!!
Speaking of powers, how about you, walking on water yet, or healing the sick, or feeding the hungry from one loaf of bread, as was promised by your jesus that you and his followers would do all the works of his plus more!!
How's that working out for you?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
NOPE! Once again you have quoted as an atheist only what you want to be seen.
Jonathon does not have the power to walk on water and I can assure you for him he dosent want to. He doesnt need to.
Christ changed his black heart of sin to white and threw away his rags and gave him a white robe and a crown.
The works you misquoted WERE in fact done by the ones He said would do them and that was His Apostles.
He is in fact doing very well from what I read!!
You can love your false gods, false religion, and your failed prophecies till your hearts content!!
You cant sell me your B.S.!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Well there is our problem!!!!
We Christians have nothing for sell.
What we have is a free gift. All that is required is for you to take it. IF, I mean IF you would spend as much time trying to learn about Christ as you do defaming Him, you just might be able to become a preacher one day.
I don't see the big deal, throughout the OT the singular God is constantly referred to as the LORD OF HOSTS - which infers there are other God-like beings who He is King over. Furthermore, the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) does a good job in translating the plural to "divine beings" -
I know most Christians like pointing this out to be the Trinity, but that is back tracking a little bit and is not necessary to believe in Jesus and is a bit disrespectful to the original authors.
Let us look at the book of Enoch, which clearly states there was more than one Satan!!
Book of Enoch: Chapter 65
6 ....... concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, (plural) and all their powers -the most secret ones
The Satans were the 1/3 of the flesh and blood elohim that defected and took earthly wives!!
The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...
The Nephelim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the benei Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them—they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name. (Gen. 6:2,4) Interlinear Hebrew Bible
According to the Babylonian Talmudic text these are some of the names of the 200 elohim who defected!!
Those who defected had the EL in the singular as a suffix added to their names to denote part of the original Elohim!!
LOL...now who wants to convince me that Satan had over a hundred different names in just one culture alone?
The christians bible list several of the elohim by name with the El as a prefix to denote the non-fallen original Elohim!!
El Echad. (Mal. 2:10)
El Hanne'eman. (Deut. 7:9)
El Emet. (Ps. 31:5)
El Tsaddik. (Isa. 45:21)
El Shaddai. Occurs 48 times in the Tanakh, Abraham actually referred to his god as El Shaddai!!
El Elyon. (Gen. 14:20; Ps. 9:2).
El Olam. (Gen. 21:33, Ps. 90:1-3, 93:2; Isa. 26:4).
El Roi. (Gen. 16:13).
El Yeshurun.
The God of Jeshurun (Deut. 32:15; 33:5,26; Isa. 44:2).
El Gibbor. (Isa. 9:6).
El De'ot. (1 Sam. 2:3).
El Hakkavod. (Ps. 29:3).
El Hakkadosh. (Sometimes transliterated Hakadosh). (Isa. 5:16).
El Hashamayim. (Ps. 136:26
El Chaiyai. (Ps. 42:8).
El-Channun. (Jonah 4:2).
El Yisrael. (Ps. 68:36).
El Sali. (Ps. 42:9
El Erekh Apayim avi ha-tanchumim. (Romans 15:5)
El Rachum. (Deut. 4:31).
El malei Rachamim
El Yeshuati
El Yeshuatenu
El-Kanno.
The Jealous God (Exod. 20:5; 34:14; Num. 5:14, 30; Deut. 4:24; 5:9; 6:15; Jos. 24:19; 1 Ki. 19:10, 14; Ezek. 39:25; Joel 2:18; Nah. 1:2; Zech. 1:14; 8:2).
El Hannora. (Neh. 9:32)
Taught in chritian religion as all being the name of god in his different aspects, and quite untrue!!
Folks, the elohim were many in their numbers!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Lets NOT look at the book of Enoch, either 1, 2 simply because they are not considered inspired and are not in the cannon of Scriptures.
Now you know why.
By the way... the word "TRINITY" appears 12 times in the Tanakh. Does that mean you believe in the Trinity now????
And the list of names you posted as being the names of Satan is another example of FRAUD. DECEPTION.
You better do some more home work HD. You as do many others assume that the "daughters of men" had sex with the "sons of God" producing demonic offspring. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE as Matthew 22:30 tells us that angels both good and bad are ASEXUAL. They can not have sex so they can not re-roduce. ALL angels were created being with the ability of freedom of choice.
The people you listed are the names of "men of a name" or "Renown". They were human beings. Princes who did terrible things.
Read the Bible!!! It is all there for you to know.
Matthew 22:30///look it up, read it.
Quoting: Major 647112
Hello Major, how is your family doing. I hope your mother and new born are doing fine!
I jumped on HT. thread again because of your statements about the fallen angels. You quote Matthew 22:30 and tell us that both the good angels and bad angels are Asexual.
Well that is correct and not correct.
If we must use the things taught to us in the bible as Paul tells us how to confirm the Word in 2 Corinthians 13:1 " This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
Now that I present that verse so you can understand my next question which is, Where is your second witness scripture backing up Matthew 22:30 that both the good and bad angels are asexual?
I think you added a bit to what Christ said there. He said in Matthew 22:30 The angels that are in heaven by God.
Those angels that left their habitation, first estate (heaven) did have sex with woman, the flesh woman, and there is nothing you can do to change that no matter what your belief is. "The Sons of God denotes angels" and you can't change that no matter how hard you try. And Naphal is quite clear in the manuscripts denoting those that side stepped Gods over all plan.
Not trying to give you a hard time, nor am I out to slam dunk you. I already proved to you that Rapha is a fallen angel and the Rephaims spoke of in Gen. 14:5 are the direct offspring of Rapha, and no matter how you try to change that you cannot.Yes the Nephilim are superhuman beings aka offspring of the Naphal (fallen angels). Jude 6 verifies that something happened to bad angels that left heaven.
You can never prove that Sons of God do not represent anything but angels from heaven. If you try, then "slice n/ and dice n/ of what you try to prove who the Sons of God are will happen. (Figure of speech meaning, I will prove you wrong just as I did about the "Song of Moses". And guess what, it I promise it will be in plain sight as the words "Song of Moses" was when I pushed that issue with you.)
You don't need to be some super scholar to see that the Sons of God are fallen bad angels, and even in many of the King James versions, it is spelled out for you just as plainly as the Song of Moses is spelled out.
Now with me saying that in my boldness method, 'want to dance?' lol just joking with ya..
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:17 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
As for me, there are few people I truly admire and those people do not talk about their own greatness. Funny though because I see them as great. Not that I see them as 'above' others, in that I see their humanity, and they have problems like everybody else.... but....they handle those things in a great way. That's the key.
Those few people I admire never speak about how great they are. In fact, they are the most humbled people that I know. Humility is a wonderful quality in a human being, and quite something to behold when it is genuine.
I have noticed there are tons of people posting on the board who talk about how enlightened they are, etc. I am starting to wonder if this board contains the highest per capita population of narcissistically inclined individuals on the internet.
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
What a joke you folks are!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
ALL people have done that including atheists of all walks of life. Why pidgion hole one when all are guility.
And.....you didnt answer his question, but you did throw up a deflective responce of irrevalance.
No, not all are guilty, but you christians sure take the prize!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Quoting: HardTruth
Well good. At least you are leaving the Mormons and Muslims and Hindus and Buddests alone. THank goodness it is just us Christians.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:18 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
OP, have you ever 'converted' anybody? If you don't like the word convert...has anyone ever bought your shtick about the TRUE CREATORS, and actually changed their life to accommodate that?
Actually there have been many, and before my demise hopefully many more!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Many? Like more than 10? More than 20? More than 100?
How did you do that? Did they see how together your life is and ask what you have because they wanted it too? Did you tell them about your beliefs and they said "Wow, that makes sense?"
Other? How did you convert people?
As you well know, deprogramming is a long and tedious process, I have no powers as to convert millions at a time!!
Speaking of powers, how about you, walking on water yet, or healing the sick, or feeding the hungry from one loaf of bread, as was promised by your jesus that you and his followers would do all the works of his plus more!!
How's that working out for you?
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
NOPE! Once again you have quoted as an atheist only what you want to be seen.
Jonathon does not have the power to walk on water and I can assure you for him he dosent want to. He doesnt need to.
Christ changed his black heart of sin to white and threw away his rags and gave him a white robe and a crown.
The works you misquoted WERE in fact done by the ones He said would do them and that was His Apostles.
He is in fact doing very well from what I read!!
You can love your false gods, false religion, and your failed prophecies till your hearts content!!
You cant sell me your B.S.!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Well there is our problem!!!!
We Christians have nothing for sell.
What we have is a free gift. All that is required is for you to take it. IF, I mean IF you would spend as much time trying to learn about Christ as you do defaming Him, you just might be able to become a preacher one day.
Quoting: Major 647112
I don't have a problem grasshopper, I don't believe in fairy tales, nor do I make predictions that fail!!
And yes, you do try and sell your false religion disguised with love while trying to sell a loving god when your own scriptures portray a different story!!
Please, spare me your B.S.
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
I don't claim superiority, I just do my homework and use my own mind!!
Would you claim that your knowledge is superior to mine if I say that I believe the Bible word for word, and live my entire life according to it?
Would you claim to be superior to me in knowledge and spirituality in that case?
lol...You christians have been falsely claiming superior knowledge, enlightenment, spiritual discernment for thousands of years now, and sending curses of eternal damnation against those who refuse to believe your delusions!!
The holiest text of your earth is hieroglyphics,Rosetta stone,it surpasses all the bullshit written for thousands of years your time.
In this light you will know the truth just as carved in stone.
For all Jewish,Hebrew text of your nation,and for every bible written,and for every voice heard none be greater than the true light of god just as carved in stone.
"DJED PILLARS" rebirth i remain still with no ears DEC 21,2006.
I hold the flag of all nations and there faith,my voice is of true djed pillars in sky,my voice is of true frequencies carved in stone ,wavy lines,all wavy lines meet to the elect to set its next stage just as carved in stone,all of mankind adjust to the spine of the elect just as carved in stone.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:31 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
I don't see the big deal, throughout the OT the singular God is constantly referred to as the LORD OF HOSTS - which infers there are other God-like beings who He is King over. Furthermore, the JPS (Jewish Publication Society) does a good job in translating the plural to "divine beings" -
I know most Christians like pointing this out to be the Trinity, but that is back tracking a little bit and is not necessary to believe in Jesus and is a bit disrespectful to the original authors.
Let us look at the book of Enoch, which clearly states there was more than one Satan!!
Book of Enoch: Chapter 65
6 ....... concerning those who dwell on the earth that their ruin is accomplished because they have learnt all the secrets of the angels, and all the violence of the Satans, (plural) and all their powers -the most secret ones
The Satans were the 1/3 of the flesh and blood elohim that defected and took earthly wives!!
The benei Elohim saw the daughters of Adam, that they were fit extensions. And they took wives for themselves from all those that they chose...
The Nephelim were in the earth in those days, and even afterwards when the benei Elohim came in to the daughters of Adam, and they bore to them—they were Powerful Ones which existed from ancient times, the men of name. (Gen. 6:2,4) Interlinear Hebrew Bible
According to the Babylonian Talmudic text these are some of the names of the 200 elohim who defected!!
Those who defected had the EL in the singular as a suffix added to their names to denote part of the original Elohim!!
LOL...now who wants to convince me that Satan had over a hundred different names in just one culture alone?
The christians bible list several of the elohim by name with the El as a prefix to denote the non-fallen original Elohim!!
El Echad. (Mal. 2:10)
El Hanne'eman. (Deut. 7:9)
El Emet. (Ps. 31:5)
El Tsaddik. (Isa. 45:21)
El Shaddai. Occurs 48 times in the Tanakh, Abraham actually referred to his god as El Shaddai!!
El Elyon. (Gen. 14:20; Ps. 9:2).
El Olam. (Gen. 21:33, Ps. 90:1-3, 93:2; Isa. 26:4).
El Roi. (Gen. 16:13).
El Yeshurun.
The God of Jeshurun (Deut. 32:15; 33:5,26; Isa. 44:2).
El Gibbor. (Isa. 9:6).
El De'ot. (1 Sam. 2:3).
El Hakkavod. (Ps. 29:3).
El Hakkadosh. (Sometimes transliterated Hakadosh). (Isa. 5:16).
El Hashamayim. (Ps. 136:26
El Chaiyai. (Ps. 42:8).
El-Channun. (Jonah 4:2).
El Yisrael. (Ps. 68:36).
El Sali. (Ps. 42:9
El Erekh Apayim avi ha-tanchumim. (Romans 15:5)
El Rachum. (Deut. 4:31).
El malei Rachamim
El Yeshuati
El Yeshuatenu
El-Kanno.
The Jealous God (Exod. 20:5; 34:14; Num. 5:14, 30; Deut. 4:24; 5:9; 6:15; Jos. 24:19; 1 Ki. 19:10, 14; Ezek. 39:25; Joel 2:18; Nah. 1:2; Zech. 1:14; 8:2).
El Hannora. (Neh. 9:32)
Taught in chritian religion as all being the name of god in his different aspects, and quite untrue!!
Folks, the elohim were many in their numbers!!
___________
If it expects, or demands worship, it is not divine!!
Lets NOT look at the book of Enoch, either 1, 2 simply because they are not considered inspired and are not in the cannon of Scriptures.
Now you know why.
By the way... the word "TRINITY" appears 12 times in the Tanakh. Does that mean you believe in the Trinity now????
And the list of names you posted as being the names of Satan is another example of FRAUD. DECEPTION.
You better do some more home work HD. You as do many others assume that the "daughters of men" had sex with the "sons of God" producing demonic offspring. THAT IS IMPOSSIBLE as Matthew 22:30 tells us that angels both good and bad are ASEXUAL. They can not have sex so they can not re-roduce. ALL angels were created being with the ability of freedom of choice.
The people you listed are the names of "men of a name" or "Renown". They were human beings. Princes who did terrible things.
Read the Bible!!! It is all there for you to know.
Matthew 22:30///look it up, read it.
Hello Major, how is your family doing. I hope your mother and new born are doing fine!
I jumped on HT. thread again because of your statements about the fallen angels. You quote Matthew 22:30 and tell us that both the good angels and bad angels are Asexual.
Well that is correct and not correct.
If we must use the things taught to us in the bible as Paul tells us how to confirm the Word in 2 Corinthians 13:1 " This is the third time I am coming to you. In the mouth of two or three witnesses shall every word be established."
Now that I present that verse so you can understand my next question which is, Where is your second witness scripture backing up Matthew 22:30 that both the good and bad angels are asexual?
I think you added a bit to what Christ said there. He said in Matthew 22:30 The angels that are in heaven by God.
Those angels that left their habitation, first estate (heaven) did have sex with woman, the flesh woman, and there is nothing you can do to change that no matter what your belief is. "The Sons of God denotes angels" and you can't change that no matter how hard you try. And Naphal is quite clear in the manuscripts denoting those that side stepped Gods over all plan.
Not trying to give you a hard time, nor am I out to slam dunk you. I already proved to you that Rapha is a fallen angel and the Rephaims spoke of in Gen. 14:5 are the direct offspring of Rapha, and no matter how you try to change that you cannot.Yes the Nephilim are superhuman beings aka offspring of the Naphal (fallen angels). Jude 6 verifies that something happened to bad angels that left heaven.
You can never prove that Sons of God do not represent anything but angels from heaven. If you try, then "slice n/ and dice n/ of what you try to prove who the Sons of God are will happen. (Figure of speech meaning, I will prove you wrong just as I did about the "Song of Moses". And guess what, it I promise it will be in plain sight as the words "Song of Moses" was when I pushed that issue with you.)
You don't need to be some super scholar to see that the Sons of God are fallen bad angels, and even in many of the King James versions, it is spelled out for you just as plainly as the Song of Moses is spelled out.
Now with me saying that in my boldness method, 'want to dance?' lol just joking with ya..
Quoting: Little Star
All are doing fine, thanks for asking.
No, I am not going to argue over what Scripture says. You either believe it or change it to accomadate your opinion.
You say......
"You quote Matthew 22:30 and tell us that both the good angels and bad angels are Asexual."
I am telling YOU NOTHING. I stated what the Bible says and the one who said that is Jesus.
It is a clear statement and I am just not going to debate it.
You say........
"Where is your second witness scripture backing up Matthew 22:30 that both the good and bad angels are asexual".
Is your conention that when Jesus said something, He had to say it twice to make it effective??? JEWISH tridition demands that and it is a good thing I think too.
But if that logic is true,what would you do with Genesis 1:1.
"IN the beginning God." How does one then prove the existance of God?? It is only said once, so now explain it.
You proved no one wrong Star. YOu simply rejected what I gave you. Same with the Sons of God.
If you want to believe that demons have sex with humans, go right ahead, I am not going to try and stop you. Believe what you will, you are a big boy now.
Major User ID: 647112 11/4/2009 5:33 PM
Re: Fraud in the Bible or, It Sucks That You Don't Know Hebrew, Greek or Aramaic!
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