Wow, there buckaroo.
I personally am against most of what Israel does.
Not because I support the Palestinians, which I don't.
It is because nearly everything Israel does is naked unmitigated aggression, most of which violates UN sanctions and international law.
Israel is not the victim here, although they want to appear that way.
I disagree with most everything that you said, but I wasn't making a commentary one way or the other in my post, and you just proved my point. This thread is about Israel boarding an Iranian ship, not whether Israel is wrong on everything they do. Thanks, and don't call me "buckeroo," chief.
Quoting: Revbo
What is it about piracy that you don't understand?
any takers on sea law at 100 nm from shore sounds like piracy i think 12 nm from coast is passable
Indeed!
/
Quoting: TX PATRIOT 810051
Thanks for staying on topic. 100nm out to sea might be considered piracy if it weren't an act of self-defense. Let's not forget what cargo was on that ship. Weapons smuggling under a false flag is an act of piracy. Stopping weapons smuggling is not.
"According to the officials, the vessel carried advanced weaponry including missiles, and the incident was apparently similar in scope to the seizing of the Karine A ship intercepted in January 2002 off the coast of Gaza. That boat carried some 50 tons of military equipment including Katyusha rockets, antitank missiles, and high explosives." TANSTAAFL
Anonymous Coward User ID: 810160 11/4/2009 9:58 AM
any takers on sea law at 100 nm from shore sounds like piracy i think 12 nm from coast is passable
Indeed!
/
Thanks for staying on topic. 100nm out to sea might be considered piracy if it weren't an act of self-defense. Let's not forget what cargo was on that ship. Weapons smuggling under a false flag is an act of piracy. Stopping weapons smuggling is not.
"According to the officials, the vessel carried advanced weaponry including missiles, and the incident was apparently similar in scope to the seizing of the Karine A ship intercepted in January 2002 off the coast of Gaza. That boat carried some 50 tons of military equipment including Katyusha rockets, antitank missiles, and high explosives."
Quoting: Revbo
The old "self defense" routine.
So the ship fired at the Israeli's then?
Other than being attacked, Israel had no right to seize that ship or force it into port.
Piracy, plain and simple.
Thanks for staying on topic. 100nm out to sea might be considered piracy if it weren't an act of self-defense. Let's not forget what cargo was on that ship. Weapons smuggling under a false flag is an act of piracy. Stopping weapons smuggling is not.
"According to the officials, the vessel carried advanced weaponry including missiles, and the incident was apparently similar in scope to the seizing of the Karine A ship intercepted in January 2002 off the coast of Gaza. That boat carried some 50 tons of military equipment including Katyusha rockets, antitank missiles, and high explosives."
Quoting: Revbo
I agree. And also, if Iran did this to an Israeli ship the same people who are calling Israel pirates would be defending Iran and saying they were defending themselves.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 607669 11/4/2009 10:02 AM
The old "self defense" routine.
So the ship fired at the Israeli's then?
Other than being attacked, Israel had no right to seize that ship or force it into port.
Piracy, plain and simple.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 732717
So, let me see if I understand your argument: It's okay for Iran to ship weapons to its proxies in Lebanon and Syria. But, it's not okay for Israel to intercept those ships illegally smuggling weapons unless fired upon? Do I have that about right?
Last Edited by Revbo on 11/4/2009 at 10:09 AM TANSTAAFL
Anonymous Coward User ID: 414355 11/4/2009 10:11 AM
There's no hope of that. Any thread about Israel or the Palestinians on GLP that gets any traction quickly turns into a pissing contest between Israel supporters and Palestine supporters. I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads stay on topic.
Quoting: lime flavoured
Because traitors have tied the lives of our children to the murderous activities of the Christ deniers.. These planned events drag us into endless wars to die and be hated for it
There's no hope of that. Any thread about Israel or the Palestinians on GLP that gets any traction quickly turns into a pissing contest between Israel supporters and Palestine supporters. I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads stay on topic.
Because traitors have tied the lives of our children to the murderous activities of the Christ deniers.. These planned events drag us into endless wars to die and be hated for it
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 414355
Well, then start a thread about it. People are trying to have intelligent conversations about specific things, and you guys always come in and infect the thread with Israel-bashing (and to a lesser extent Palestinian-bashing) every chance you get. I understand you hate each other, and that's okay, but have your shouting matches elsewhere. TANSTAAFL
Anonymous Coward User ID: 732717 11/4/2009 10:16 AM
So at least we all agree it was a case of piracy then, right? If I am reading the news story correctly, The IDF boarded the ship and "discovered" the weapons cache. Is that correct?
What right did they have to board the ship if it was in international waters?
Were they in Israeli territorial water then yes, a case could be made for a precautionary search of the vessel. Even forcing the ship to port would be well advised.
However, it is my understanding that the ship was in international waters, therefore, it was an illegal search and seizure.
Imagine the outrage (and dozens of threads here on GLP) if the situation were reversed. Had Iran seized an Israeli ship, everyone here would be crying for the Israeli's to nuke Iran.
What is Iran's response, by the way?
I have heard nothing.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 744635 11/4/2009 10:18 AM
Pre-9/11 we had a bunch of supposed "terror threats" and info on how scary Bin Laden and his secret army is.
Lately, we've gotten the threat message regarding Iran over and over. Israel has been boarding ships recently and TELLING us everything is connected to "Iran the terror supplier". Same tune that played leading up to Iraq.
I only request that Israel refrain from pulling a Cheney-style attack on our own people (like they did in the 60's).
So at least we all agree it was a case of piracy then, right? If I am reading the news story correctly, The IDF boarded the ship and "discovered" the weapons cache. Is that correct?
What right did they have to board the ship if it was in international waters?
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 732717
I think there are some international treaties that allow searches on the high seas in certain situations.
What is Iran's response, by the way?
I have heard nothing.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 732717
Neither have I, and I doubt we will hear anything, because a reaction would be an admission of guilt. The only thing we're likely to hear is a denial of involvement.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 810123 11/4/2009 10:25 AM
And therefore legal.
Governments all over the world have used and abused maritime law ever since it was formally codified.
It's full of legislation which has fuck all to do with the context, but everything to do with allowing governments to grant their navy total freedom to commit legal piracy.
Iran can make no real legal complaint against the action.
They could declare war, which would supercede any legal bullshit, because it's friggin WAR.
Other than that, they got nothing but pointless appeals to the UN, which would prolly result in sanctions against Iran!
Israel has no legal right to intrude on that ship at that location....that ship or any other ship irrespective of cargo load or destination. She didn't have jurisdiction OR cause.
Once in her waters, yes.
Sinking ships carrying illegal weapons cargo?? Makes me laugh. The CIA would be pretty pissed off at all their carriers goin' down, dontcha think? Glass houses and all...
.
the bits about rights of nations at sea are about half way down page
Quoting: bill shitters
Israel didn't sign the convention on the Law of the Sea...
[link to en.wikipedia.org] I have sworn upon the altar of god eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man—Thomas Jefferson
Anonymous Coward User ID: 732717 11/4/2009 10:33 AM
In further reading of the story, it turns out that the ship was near the Island of Cyprus.
Cyprus is nowhere near the Israeli coast, as can be seen here on Google Maps.
Pre-9/11 we had a bunch of supposed "terror threats" and info on how scary Bin Laden and his secret army is.
Lately, we've gotten the threat message regarding Iran over and over. Israel has been boarding ships recently and TELLING us everything is connected to "Iran the terror supplier". Same tune that played leading up to Iraq.
I only request that Israel refrain from pulling a Cheney-style attack on our own people (like they did in the 60's).
Quoting: SHERIFF BIGHAIR 782900
Add to it the new "terrorist infiltration threat" recently published by Israel, and we have ourselves a nice little manipulation of public perception campaign goin' on...Iraq Part Deux.
Add to it the new "terrorist infiltration threat" recently published by Israel, and we have ourselves a nice little manipulation of public perception campaign goin' on...Iraq Part Deux.
They are just itchin' to kick it off.
.
Quoting: TX PATRIOT 810051
As I've said before, I think Israel are all but ready to attack Iran.
There's no hope of that. Any thread about Israel or the Palestinians on GLP that gets any traction quickly turns into a pissing contest between Israel supporters and Palestine supporters. I don't think I've ever seen one of these threads stay on topic.
Because traitors have tied the lives of our children to the murderous activities of the Christ deniers.. These planned events drag us into endless wars to die and be hated for it
Well, then start a thread about it. People are trying to have intelligent conversations about specific things, and you guys always come in and infect the thread with Israel-bashing (and to a lesser extent Palestinian-bashing) every chance you get. I understand you hate each other, and that's okay, but have your shouting matches elsewhere.
Quoting: Revbo
Look, I just did it for you. Now, you can scream at each other all you want, and you don't have to do it in these threads.
i might be clutching at straws here but iran's response to the ships inspection is a dead opposition leader talk of the Iranians knowing it was known about but unsure who is going to intercept
then to top it all of most of the Israeli top people are kept out of loop
suggesting its a double and triple agent trap
just cause you see a rocket dont mean it actually works
Last Edited by bill shitters on 11/4/2009 at 10:47 AM The retired thread killer
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