| | | Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6 | ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 806857 (OP)
11/5/2009 3:20 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Hey British people, did you know doctors euthanize your people without you even knowing it!
It's approximately 1 out of 6 elderly patients.
Read this from your own newspaper:
[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
Sentenced to death on the NHS
Patients with terminal illnesses are being made to die prematurely under an NHS scheme to help end their lives, leading doctors have warned.
In a letter to The Daily Telegraph, a group of experts who care for the terminally ill claim that some patients are being wrongly judged as close to death.
Under NHS guidance introduced across England to help doctors and medical staff deal with dying patients, they can then have fluid and drugs withdrawn and many are put on continuous sedation until they pass away.
But this approach can also mask the signs that their condition is improving, the experts warn.
As a result the scheme is causing a "national crisis" in patient care, the letter states. It has been signed palliative care experts including Professor Peter Millard, Emeritus Professor of Geriatrics, University of London, Dr Peter Hargreaves, a consultant in Palliative Medicine at St Luke’s cancer centre in Guildford, and four others.
"Forecasting death is an inexact science," they say. Patients are being diagnosed as being close to death "without regard to the fact that the diagnosis could be wrong.
"As a result a national wave of discontent is building up, as family and friends witness the denial of fluids and food to patients."
The warning comes just a week after a report by the Patients Association estimated that up to one million patients had received poor or cruel care on the NHS.
The scheme, called the Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP), was designed to reduce patient suffering in their final hours.
Developed by Marie Curie, the cancer charity, in a Liverpool hospice it was initially developed for cancer patients but now includes other life threatening conditions.
It was recommended as a model by the National Institute for Health and Clinical Excellence (Nice), the Government’s health scrutiny body, in 2004.
It has been gradually adopted nationwide and more than 300 hospitals, 130 hospices and 560 care homes in England currently use the system.
Under the guidelines the decision to diagnose that a patient is close to death is made by the entire medical team treating them, including a senior doctor.
They look for signs that a patient is approaching their final hours, which can include if patients have lost consciousness or whether they are having difficulty swallowing medication.
However, doctors warn that these signs can point to other medical problems.
Patients can become semi-conscious and confused as a side effect of pain-killing drugs such as morphine if they are also dehydrated, for instance.
When a decision has been made to place a patient on the pathway doctors are then recommended to consider removing medication or invasive procedures, such as intravenous drips, which are no longer of benefit.
If a patient is judged to still be able to eat or drink food and water will still be offered to them, as this is considered nursing care rather than medical intervention.
Dr Hargreaves said that this depended, however, on constant assessment of a patient’s condition.
He added that some patients were being "wrongly" put on the pathway, which created a "self-fulfilling prophecy" that they would die.
( Here is the DEATH PANEL )
He said: "I have been practising palliative medicine for more than 20 years and I am getting more concerned about this "death pathway" that is coming in.
"It is supposed to let people die with dignity but it can become a self-fulfilling prophecy.
"Patients who are allowed to become dehydrated and then become confused can be wrongly put on this pathway."
He added: "What they are trying to do is stop people being overtreated as they are dying.
"It is a very laudable idea. But the concern is that it is tick box medicine that stops people thinking."
He said that he had personally taken patients off the pathway who went on to live for "significant" amounts of time and warned that many doctors were not checking the progress of patients enough to notice improvement in their condition.
Prof Millard said that it was "worrying" that patients were being “terminally” sedated, using syringe drivers, which continually empty their contents into a patient over the course of 24 hours.
In 2007-08 16.5 per cent of deaths in Britain came about after continuous deep sedation, according to researchers at the Barts and the London School of Medicine and Dentistry, twice as many as in Belgium and the Netherlands.
"If they are sedated it is much harder to see that a patient is getting better," Prof Millard said.
Katherine Murphy, director of the Patients Association, said: "Even the tiniest things that happen towards the end of a patient’s life can have a huge and lasting affect on patients and their families feelings about their care.
"Guidelines like the LCP can be very helpful but healthcare professionals always need to keep in mind the individual needs of patients.
"There is no one size fits all approach."
A spokesman for Marie Curie said: “The letter highlights some complex issues related to care of the dying.
"The Liverpool Care Pathway for the Dying Patient was developed in response to a societal need to transfer best practice of care of the dying from the hospice to other care settings.
"The LCP is not the answer to all the complex elements of this area of health care but we believe it is a step in the right direction."
The pathway also includes advice on the spiritual care of the patient and their family both before and after the death.
It has also been used in 800 instances outside care homes, hospices and hospitals, including for people who have died in their own homes.
The letter has also been signed by Dr Anthony Cole, the chairman of the Medical Ethics Alliance, Dr David Hill, an anaesthetist, Dowager Lady Salisbury, chairman of the Choose Life campaign and Dr Elizabeth Negus a lecturer in English at Barking University.
A spokesman for the Department of Health said: "People coming to the end of their lives should have a right to high quality, compassionate and dignified care.
"The Liverpool Care Pathway (LCP) is an established and recommended tool that provides clinicians with an evidence-based framework to help delivery of high quality care for people at the end of their lives.
"Many people receive excellent care at the end of their lives. We are investing £286 million over the two years to 2011 to support implementation of the End of Life Care Strategy to help improve end of life care for all adults, regardless of where they live."
[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
----------------------------------------------------------
We don't want your DEATH PANELS Britain....
Goodnight. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 802143
11/5/2009 3:27 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
british people have longer life spans than you do. Worse teeth, but longer lives. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 802143
11/5/2009 3:31 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Some of you are SO backward. As Americans you're being raped by your insurers, being charged astromonical prices for simple things like gauze, tape, steri-strips etc. My brother had to get a few stitches when he was at university of maine, cost him like 600 bucks. BUT in Canada, I broke my arm 2 years ago, it cost me nothing, I didn't wait, and I got the best care possible, in your system...it would have been 10K. The video is a LIE. John Stossel says "in canada you'll wait 6 months for treatment" thats only if you're low priority IE based on a Dr.'s assessment, otherwise its immediate. Waiting 6 months for a elective treatment is WAY better than having to pay 100K for the same treatment. Additionally, the "medical innovations" described in the video most people on this forum couldn't afford anyways. IF you were smart, you'd support your president in his fight for healthcare reform, so you could have universal health care like every other g7 nation. Part of the reason why as a nation you're so broke is your health care premiums. Watch SICKO. I know you all think Micheal Moore is a shill, but he has more $$ than you do. HE doesn't have to give a rats ass, but he loves his country and the people in it, don't ask me why.
I said you guys would show up.
Read the entire thread before you try to repeat the same crap that has already been discredited.
I read the whole thread, it was disputed, but FAR from discredited. I really don't care, keep your crappy healthcare system. I'll keep mine and be smug about it. |
| Lady Wolf
User ID: 810719
11/5/2009 3:52 AM
 | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
We have universal health care here in my country and yes, you have to wait months to see a doctor and then years if you need something like a surgery. If you need a doctor immediately you need health insurance or pay it yourself. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810480
Hmmm for whatever it's worth. My husband's boss is from Britain and is absolutely appalled at our "health care" system in this country. He says he really misses back home when all he had to do was, make an appointment, check in at the window, (only to sign in for appointment, not for insurance purposes) get seen, get prescription, go to pharmacy, pick up meds, (no charge) and go home to get better. He said there were no long waiting lists and he could not believe how America, the "World Super Power" could possibly be so screwed up when it comes to the health of their people.
Honest to God truth folks!
Remember...Real Truth Is Self Evident;)
Can't PM? Feel free to e'mail me at ldy_wolf@sbcglobal.net |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 776606
11/5/2009 4:18 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Stossel is NOT with ABC any longer, he's with the Fox Business Channel.
AND he's a hack. |
| DaJavoo 
Forum Barkeep
User ID: 810786
11/5/2009 5:11 AM
 | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
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| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 805575
11/5/2009 7:36 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
wow, TrInItY I didnt know you were so disconnected from society .. I'll stick with the Michael Moore point of view, sicko was a great 360 view of heathcare.. like I sad when cutting edge heathcare gets outsourced, the rich can go to india when they have an issue... I wont feel sorry for them...
you're a fucking idiot man
seriously
you feel disenfranchised so you say "fuck the rich"
it's the rich that provide you with a fucking job you moron
if the rich have to goto india for a heart bypass what fucking chance do the poor have?
how stupid can you be man?
JOB
Just
Over
Broke
People are tired of making just enough to get by... Oh and yes, my and my friends JOB was outsourced to india..
So ya great life trying to compete with insourced south american labor .. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 768075
You can thank your Democratic Liberal Buddy Clinton for that.
They cause the problem, then offer a "solution".
If you can't see that, you're an idiot. |
| Cultivator
User ID: 810839
11/5/2009 7:39 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Here in Australia, we have Medicare - which covers a wide range of free medical services that include GP doctors through to surgery and emergency medicine.
Every Australian (and visitors with reciprocal rights) can access medicare services and see a doctor, be treated in hospital and access subsidised medicines and treatments.
Those who are employed contribute a 1.5% levy via the tax system however all Australians, employed or not, still have access to Medicare.
Private insurance is taken out by many people who seek to have extra services and treatments such as private hospitals, choice of doctors, modalities like acupuncture, massage, dental and many other things.
There is talk about dental care being included in the medicare system which is very much needed given the high costs of dental work, often prohibitive to many people and the impact this then has on other health problems.
Even under Saddam Hussein, Iraq offered its citizens free dental care.
I think most Australians, if not all... are certainly very happy we have the Medicare system and cannot understand how the USA has not adopted a similar system decades ago. Sure - it may not be perfect and sure - there is always going to be a few frustrations but at the end of the day - it is accessible by everyone at a very good standard.
The huge polarisation and division now in the US over the issue is confusing and perplexing to many Australians and Europeans who both need and enjoy the assistance of Medicare type health systems.
Private health insurance co-exists. Health professionals all make good money and a good living and the way a universal health care system is attacked by some in the US as being a socialist, communist type policy is incredible.
Perhaps someone in the US who is so opposed to reform, could try and explain in bullet point form why the existing US health care system is so effective and does it, or should it......provide for all Americans in the same way other nations - provide for all their citizens. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810854
11/5/2009 8:13 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Isn't Stossel the one who believes everything in the Warren Commission? The most staunch defender of that report full of lies. Like I'm gonna believe anything he says. Perfect fit for FOXNEWS. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 656642
11/5/2009 8:32 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
OP your missing the point!!!! people DIE in the
U.S. because they can't afford heath care. But ya, I see how a anti heathcare pumper could call it rambling..
That is an absolute LIE! It is illegal in the United States to deny ANYONE healthcare even if you are uninsured or even homeless. No one here dies in the streets from lack of healthcare. Stop your shillin' BS LIES!
No call me a shill it sont matter to me... yes you will get yor heathcare, but you will spend the next 7 years dealing with bill collectors.. I've seen close friends be totaly wiped out more then once just trying to get a broken leg or kidney stone removed.. is it right that while your trying to build a life you have to go totaly broke to get a broken leg fixed ? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 768075
Bull. Totally broke for a broken leg or kidney stone? They can't afford to make monthly payments? Work with the hospital to pay at most (and this is being very generous) a $3,000.00 bill. Not saying that the hospital treatment for a broken leg/kidney stone would be that much more like $1,500.00 (then there is a self pay discount).
Don't try your liberal bs, I work in the billing department of a major hospital in a major city. I know what typical billed charges are, I know CMS reimbursement/denials/recoups; I am aware of VA/TriCare/Champus reimbursement as well as Indian Health Services. I have worked with patients on self pay discounts.
Really can't stand liberal distortions, irritate the hell out of me.
Also for all the border state hospitals that are inundated with illegals - the hospitals apply for reimbursement either under the state's Medicaid program or under Medicare's Section 1011 reimbursement for illegal aliens. What you weren't aware that the monies you paid into Medicare were also being utilized to pay for illegal aliens healthcare?
[link to www.texmed.org]
So to all those who whine and cry that I "know someone who filed bankruptcy for medical bills"....those people weren't willing to work with the hospitals and physicians on payment plans nor did they look for community resources that are available to help with medical bills.
So sick of people who aren't knowledgeable of the health insurance field jumping in with uninformed political talking points; for all of you who want Pukelosi's hellcare bill and the gov't to be responsible for deciding what will be covered go to your local hospice facility and talk to the billing staff, go to your local hospital and talk to the bill staff there, go to your doctors office and ask about CMS reimbursements, go to a VA and see the lines, go to the Indian reservations and see their clinics. I have and there is no way I want the gov't in charge of any other portion of the health care industry. |
| Smiles99
User ID: 773861
11/5/2009 9:40 AM
 | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Name ONE PERSON who died...... I work in HC no one is REFUSED services.
people DIE in the
U.S. because they can't afford heath care. But ya, I see how a anti heathcare pumper could call it rambling..
. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790530
"The illegal we do immediately. The unconstitutional takes a little longer."--Henry Kissinger
"Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism"
~Vladimir Lenin
The democracy will cease to exist when you take away from those who are willing to work and give to those who would not. Thomas Jefferson |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 807932
11/5/2009 9:43 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
I think most Australians, if not all... are certainly very happy we have the Medicare system and cannot understand how the USA has not adopted a similar system decades ago. Sure - it may not be perfect and sure - there is always going to be a few frustrations but at the end of the day - it is accessible by everyone at a very good standard. Quoting: Cultivator 810839
That's nice but the USA proposed government health reform is not about providing good affordable health care to Americans. It's about power and control by the communists that have infiltrated our government. |
| Brwnstown
User ID: 709857
11/5/2009 10:13 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Trin, what is the difference, the goverment deciding my level of heath care or a shareholder ?
firstly share holders DO NOT decide your level of health care and you know it
if you don't like your policy CHANGE COMPANIES
second I agree that some type of reform is needed but NOT this type of reform
there have been 10 page health care reform bills introduced that addressed the issues that REALLY need changing without compromising the core values of america herself in the process....
this 1500+ page document is a farce and will throw the usa into full on socialism
you want to do something good for the country simply force insurance companies to accept anyone regardless of preexisting conditions and force drug companies to sell their drugs to americans for the same price they sell them to the rest of the world for and pretty much all the problems are solved
are there issues with the usa health care system?
you bet there are..
is socialism the way to fix them
hell no it's not but it's a good way to destroy the country we ALL love Quoting: ^TrInItY^
And to add to that drop the border restrictions and let the people shop for health insurance in any state. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 802143
11/5/2009 10:39 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
OP your missing the point!!!! people DIE in the
U.S. because they can't afford heath care. But ya, I see how a anti heathcare pumper could call it rambling..
That is an absolute LIE! It is illegal in the United States to deny ANYONE healthcare even if you are uninsured or even homeless. No one here dies in the streets from lack of healthcare. Stop your shillin' BS LIES!
No call me a shill it sont matter to me... yes you will get yor heathcare, but you will spend the next 7 years dealing with bill collectors.. I've seen close friends be totaly wiped out more then once just trying to get a broken leg or kidney stone removed.. is it right that while your trying to build a life you have to go totaly broke to get a broken leg fixed ?
Bull. Totally broke for a broken leg or kidney stone? They can't afford to make monthly payments? Work with the hospital to pay at most (and this is being very generous) a $3,000.00 bill. Not saying that the hospital treatment for a broken leg/kidney stone would be that much more like $1,500.00 (then there is a self pay discount).
Don't try your liberal bs, I work in the billing department of a major hospital in a major city. I know what typical billed charges are, I know CMS reimbursement/denials/recoups; I am aware of VA/TriCare/Champus reimbursement as well as Indian Health Services. I have worked with patients on self pay discounts.
Really can't stand liberal distortions, irritate the hell out of me.
Also for all the border state hospitals that are inundated with illegals - the hospitals apply for reimbursement either under the state's Medicaid program or under Medicare's Section 1011 reimbursement for illegal aliens. What you weren't aware that the monies you paid into Medicare were also being utilized to pay for illegal aliens healthcare?
[ link to www.texmed.org]
So to all those who whine and cry that I "know someone who filed bankruptcy for medical bills"....those people weren't willing to work with the hospitals and physicians on payment plans nor did they look for community resources that are available to help with medical bills.
So sick of people who aren't knowledgeable of the health insurance field jumping in with uninformed political talking points; for all of you who want Pukelosi's hellcare bill and the gov't to be responsible for deciding what will be covered go to your local hospice facility and talk to the billing staff, go to your local hospital and talk to the bill staff there, go to your doctors office and ask about CMS reimbursements, go to a VA and see the lines, go to the Indian reservations and see their clinics. I have and there is no way I want the gov't in charge of any other portion of the health care industry.
Its TRUE. You've automatically lost any credibility in this thread since your PROFIT from the healthcare system, A badly broken leg can require surgery which can cost upwards of 10k. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 802143
11/5/2009 10:42 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
That's nice but the USA proposed government health reform is not about providing good affordable health care to Americans. It's about power and control by the communists that have infiltrated our government.
It IS about quality healthcare refore, you're too bling to see it. Instead you call it communism. This sounds like pure McCarthyism. |
| Matrix
User ID: 731351
11/5/2009 10:45 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
The trouble is that when big government gets majorly involved, risk goes out the window and then the costs start to get out of control, then if nothing is done about it soon after, the system then goes tits up and then everyone is left out in the cold. That is what happened to the banking industry, when the bankers knew that the government would bail them out no matter what risks they took, it emboldened them to do the wrong thing more, knowing that there would be no direct consequences for their reckless decisions.
Governments never stick to budget, they always go over, most of the time way over, they only know how to raise costs, they are not motivated in keeping costs down, they have no imagination and innovation, they always think inside the box, so if a huge volume of money is going to be heading for the health care industry, and the government is involved, costs will go up, way up to absorb all that money, so yet another bubble will form, but when this bubble bursts, instead of losing your house and junk like when a economic bubble bursts, it will be your quality of life that suffers, when the good doctors leave the country, because they can't afford to keep practicing, because their costs keep going up, while the red tape keeps being looped around their necks tighter and tighter to strangle them.
If it costs more to buy insurance, if more comes directly out of your pocket, you will tend to look out more for your health, you will use preventive measures to keep costs to the minimum, by eating properly and exercising more so that you pay less, but if your insurance is subsidized, if the out of pocket expenses are reduced and subsided, you would tend to be far less motivated to practice preventive measures, because the cost is reduced, you will tend to expect others to then pay more and for you to pay even less as your laziness and apathy increases.
If you have to work hard for something and the cost is high, people tend to value these things and so will be more mindful of these things, but if it comes easy and the bulk of the bill is payed for by others, less respect and thought goes into the consequences. As they say, easy come, easy go; why should those who work hard, who do the right things be punished by those who didn't try, who always expected others to pay the extra for their way of life? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 656642
11/5/2009 10:50 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
OP your missing the point!!!! people DIE in the
U.S. because they can't afford heath care. But ya, I see how a anti heathcare pumper could call it rambling..
That is an absolute LIE! It is illegal in the United States to deny ANYONE healthcare even if you are uninsured or even homeless. No one here dies in the streets from lack of healthcare. Stop your shillin' BS LIES!
No call me a shill it sont matter to me... yes you will get yor heathcare, but you will spend the next 7 years dealing with bill collectors.. I've seen close friends be totaly wiped out more then once just trying to get a broken leg or kidney stone removed.. is it right that while your trying to build a life you have to go totaly broke to get a broken leg fixed ?
Bull. Totally broke for a broken leg or kidney stone? They can't afford to make monthly payments? Work with the hospital to pay at most (and this is being very generous) a $3,000.00 bill. Not saying that the hospital treatment for a broken leg/kidney stone would be that much more like $1,500.00 (then there is a self pay discount).
Don't try your liberal bs, I work in the billing department of a major hospital in a major city. I know what typical billed charges are, I know CMS reimbursement/denials/recoups; I am aware of VA/TriCare/Champus reimbursement as well as Indian Health Services. I have worked with patients on self pay discounts.
Really can't stand liberal distortions, irritate the hell out of me.
Also for all the border state hospitals that are inundated with illegals - the hospitals apply for reimbursement either under the state's Medicaid program or under Medicare's Section 1011 reimbursement for illegal aliens. What you weren't aware that the monies you paid into Medicare were also being utilized to pay for illegal aliens healthcare?
[ link to www.texmed.org]
So to all those who whine and cry that I "know someone who filed bankruptcy for medical bills"....those people weren't willing to work with the hospitals and physicians on payment plans nor did they look for community resources that are available to help with medical bills.
So sick of people who aren't knowledgeable of the health insurance field jumping in with uninformed political talking points; for all of you who want Pukelosi's hellcare bill and the gov't to be responsible for deciding what will be covered go to your local hospice facility and talk to the billing staff, go to your local hospital and talk to the bill staff there, go to your doctors office and ask about CMS reimbursements, go to a VA and see the lines, go to the Indian reservations and see their clinics. I have and there is no way I want the gov't in charge of any other portion of the health care industry.
Its TRUE. You've automatically lost any credibility in this thread since your PROFIT from the healthcare system, A badly broken leg can require surgery which can cost upwards of 10k.
I lost credibility because I work for a hospital? LOL...that lends more credence not less. How many hospital bills do you see a day? How many times do you have to review payments made by insurance companies to the company you work for? How many times do you review the charges billed by a hospital for numerous procedures? LOL
A simple compound fracture requires casting, radiology, etc. A complex compound fracture may involve surgery and may also include a couple of days in-patient care. The physician fees and facility fees could exceed $30,000 if it involves surgery, anesthesia and continued stay.
Is that a lot of money? Yes. It can also be addressed by several methods by responsible people willing to work with the providers.
There are also many self insured plans that are discount plans not subject to pre-existing conditions. Check out Synergy Health, low premiums and pretty reasonable co-insurance amounts.
The answer to the healthcare debacle is not a takeover of the industry by the gov't, it will only make matters worse. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810800
11/5/2009 10:57 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
"Its TRUE. You've automatically lost any credibility in this thread since your PROFIT from the healthcare system, A badly broken leg can require surgery which can cost upwards of 10k."
agree - sounds like an idiot.
people should not lose everything paying back a hospital regardless of a plan or anything else
mr hospital in the know creep is simply another one of the selfish pigs that need to be skewered and left with the other dinosaur relics |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 750976
11/5/2009 10:58 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Of course Obamacare sucks, only stupid people support it.
Do a search on Canadian health (care) "not" and find out all u need to know. Lots of waiting for nothing, that what u want stupid people? thought so, cuz u are retarded. Stupid is as stupid does. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810800
11/5/2009 11:05 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
lol
yes - a horrible thing that all people have healthcare
much smarter is to argue against it. lol
europenas i bet get a good laugh out of the US.
Fat, greedy and now- worried about ...waiting! lol |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 750976
11/5/2009 11:07 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
Stossel's going over to FOX now. Seriously. But you probably already guessed that. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810607
The last real news station. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 656642
11/5/2009 11:08 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
"Its TRUE. You've automatically lost any credibility in this thread since your PROFIT from the healthcare system, A badly broken leg can require surgery which can cost upwards of 10k."
agree - sounds like an idiot.
people should not lose everything paying back a hospital regardless of a plan or anything else
mr hospital in the know creep is simply another one of the selfish pigs that need to be skewered and left with the other dinosaur relics Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810800
...and you sound like you have bought into the whole liberal agenda of letting the gov't take care of everything for you.
So how are hospitals and physicians supposed to stay viable on 17% of reasonable cost? CMS payment for a doctor's office visit (simple less than 5 minutes) is $20.00. So if there is one doctor for an 8 hour day the reimbursement would be $1,920 per day if the doctor sees 96 patients (not realistic by the way). Now of that $1,920 the doctor has to pay office staff plus cover a portion of health insurance for them (seperate expense), then add in malpractice insurance, rent expense for the office, and utilities, the doctor may walk away with an excess of $150.00 a day after all expenses.
You want free medical care? Go to medical school and learn how to treat yourself. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 634795
11/5/2009 11:16 AM | | Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810800
11/5/2009 11:19 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
"So how are hospitals and physicians supposed to stay viable on 17% of reasonable cost? CMS payment for a doctor's office visit (simple less than 5 minutes) is $20.00. So if there is one doctor for an 8 hour day the reimbursement would be $1,920 per day if the doctor sees 96 patients (not realistic by the way). Now of that $1,920"
well gee- since every other western nation seems to be able to manage it i think if we can't figure it out we can just rip off their methods then
how does it feel to be so stupid? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 656642
11/5/2009 11:23 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
how does it feel to be so stupid? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810800
I don't know, you tell me.
Other nation's socialized medicine is going bankrupt and is rationing care. Follow the trending and see that all the countries that offer nationalized healthcare are working to have the systems stay solvent by increasing the taxes and decreasing covered services. Also look to Massachusetts health care plan or Hawaii's healthcare plan that is not working.
Any other liberal propaganda talking points you want to spew? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 750976
11/5/2009 11:24 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
I'm sorry I watched the video but I think it was nothing more then propaganda.. Yes people come to America to get cutting edge heath care.. They are the RICH people that have money.. And when we are no longer cutting edge thoes rich people will go somewhere else BIG deal, we are talking about getting health care for poor and middle class people.. I could care less if the rich people have access to cutting edge health care. Let the rich americans travel to INDIA for cutting edge, they wanted to send all the jobs over there, so make them go there if they want a heart bypass.
It's well documented that people in Canada wait for months for care. Same in the UK. Your post is uninformed, opinionated rambling.
People wait months and years in the US as it is. Quoting: Greenhorn
The stupid, it burns.
How do you feed yourself? Do you? |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 634795
11/5/2009 11:24 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
"So how are hospitals and physicians supposed to stay viable on 17% of reasonable cost? CMS payment for a doctor's office visit (simple less than 5 minutes) is $20.00. So if there is one doctor for an 8 hour day the reimbursement would be $1,920 per day if the doctor sees 96 patients (not realistic by the way). Now of that $1,920"
well gee- since every other western nation seems to be able to manage it i think if we can't figure it out we can just rip off their methods then
how does it feel to be so stupid? Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810800
IMF says UK must reform pensions and healthcare systems
It may take a fiscal crisis to shock rich countries including the UK into reforming their bloated healthcare and pensions systems, the chief economist of the International Monetary Fund (IMF) has warned.
[link to www.telegraph.co.uk]
..................
Britain was served notice by the International Monetary Fund today that reforms to healthcare and pensions will be needed to repair the long-term damage to public finances caused by the global recession.
[link to www.guardian.co.uk]
...................
Canada's top doctor: Health care system 'imploding'...
SASKATOON — The incoming president of the Canadian Medical Association says this country's health-care system is sick and doctors need to develop a plan to cure it.
Dr. Anne Doig says patients are getting less than optimal care and she adds that physicians from across the country - who will gather in Saskatoon on Sunday for their annual meeting - recognize that changes must be made.
"We all agree that the system is imploding, we all agree that things are more precarious than perhaps Canadians realize," Doing said in an interview with The Canadian Press.
"We know that there must be change," she said. "We're all running flat out, we're all just trying to stay ahead of the immediate day-to-day demands."
[link to www.google.com] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 701183
11/5/2009 11:26 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
you guys love your propaganda.lol
that video is shit. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 634795
11/5/2009 11:26 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
How would you feel if the Canadian government sent you a letter suggesting you owe an extra $150,000?
No doubt few, if any, Canadians would welcome that news. But that’s the situation facing Canadian tax payers as each of us is on the hook for another $150,211 in liabilities that our governments have racked up in debt and unfunded program obligations. Unless immediate action is taken to reduce Canada’s liabilities, young Canadians will be hit with a significantly larger tax bill in the future.
[link to www.fraserinstitute.org] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 634795
11/5/2009 11:31 AM | | Re: ABC's John Stossel Destroys/Pulverizes/Crushes Obama's anti-American 'Health Care' Plan | Quote |
you guys love your propaganda.lol
that video is shit. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 701183
Have you ever seen one of those 'humor' scenes from an entertainment show where a student attempts to give a review, in class, for a book he never read?
This is what most of this thread resembles.
If you disagree with something specific in the video, feel free to point it out. |
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