| | European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936
11/5/2009 3:51 PM
Report abusive post | European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral
| Quote |
The Atheists and Agnostics from Europe are happy: ECHR has stated against the Cross of Christ in Italy. This is big, it's created a dangerous precedent case and it's unconstitutional. Tomorrow they will say that other countries are on their list. Shame on them!
Link: [link to www.guardian.co.uk]
Extract:
There was uproar in Italy today over a ruling by the European court of human rights that the crucifixes that hang in most Italian classrooms are a violation of religious and educational freedoms.
The seven judges, whose decision could prompt a Europe-wide review of the use of religious symbols on public premises, said state schools had to "observe confessional neutrality".
Except on the far left, the ruling met with condemnation among Italian politicians and was denounced by the Vatican. Silvio Berlusconi's education minister, Maria Stella Gelmini, said: "No one, not even some ideologically motivated European court, will succeed in rubbing out our identity."
A Vatican spokesman, Federico Lombardi, said the crucifix was a fundamental sign of the importance of religious values in Italian history and culture, and was a symbol of unity and welcoming for all of humanity, not one of exclusion.
A European court had no right intervening in such a profoundly Italian matter, he said, adding: "It seems as if the court wanted to ignore the role of Christianity in forming Europe's identity, which was and remains essential."
The ruling marked the end of an eight-year battle by a Finnish-born mother, Soile Lautsi. She took her cause to court after failing to get crucifixes removed from the school at which her two children were being taught at a town in north-east Italy.
Lautsi appealed to Strasbourg three years ago when her case was thrown out by Italy's constitutional court.
Although more than 7% of Italy's population is now of immigrant origin, multiculturalism has made few inroads and most Italians argue passionately, as did their government's advocate in Strasbourg, that the crucifix is a symbol of national identity.
The court disagreed. "The presence of the crucifix could easily be interpreted by pupils of all ages as a religious sign, and they would feel that they were being educated in a school environment bearing the stamp of a given religion," it ruled, ordering the Italian state to pay Lautsi €5,000 (£4,476) in damages.
Classroom crucifixes were made compulsory by two laws in the 1920s when Italy was a fascist state.
They have been applied less rigorously since 1984, when Catholicism ceased to be the state religion.
One government minister, Roberto Calderoli, of the Northern League, said yesterday: "The European court has trodden on our rights, our culture, our history, our traditions and our values."
Claudio Scajola, a member of Berlusconi's Freedom People party, said: "The crucifix is a universal symbol of love, meekness and peace. Preventing it from being displayed is an act of violence against the deep-seated feelings of the Italian people and all persons of goodwill."
The mayor of Rome, Gianni Alemanno, said he was flabbergasted. And the new, ex-communist leader of Italy's biggest opposition group, the Democratic party, Pierluigi Bersani, protested: "An ancient tradition like the crucifix cannot be offensive to anyone."
On the Facebook website, 23,000 people signed up to two pages opposed to the court's decision within hours of the news breaking.
The government's lawyer said he would seek leave to appeal to the Strasbourg court's 17-member Grand Chamber. If his petition is rejected, or if an appeal is subsequently thrown out, then Italy would be obliged to comply. |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:01 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Link: [link to news.bbc.co.uk]
Excerpt:The European Court of Human Rights has ruled against the use of crucifixes in classrooms in Italy.
It said the practice violated the right of parents to educate their children as they saw fit, and ran counter to the child's right to freedom of religion.
The case was brought by an Italian mother, Soile Lautsi, who wants to give her children a secular education.
The Vatican said it was shocked by the ruling, calling it "wrong and myopic" to exclude the crucifix from education.
The ruling has sparked anger in the largely Catholic country, with one politician calling the move "shameful".
The Strasbourg court found that: "The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions."
It also restricted the "right of children to believe or not to believe", the seven judges ruling on the case said in a statement quoted by AFP news agency.
European identity
Mrs Lautsi complained to the European court that her children had to attend a public school in northern Italy that had crucifixes in every room.
She was awarded 5,000 euros ($7,400; £4,500) in damages.
Vatican spokesman the Rev Federico Lombardi said the European court had no right intervening in such a profoundly Italian matter, the Associated Press reported.
The compulsory display of a symbol of a given confession in premises used by the public authorities... restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions.
Court ruling
Read your views on the ruling
"It seems as if the court wanted to ignore the role of Christianity in forming Europe's identity, which was and remains essential."
He told Italian TV: "The crucifix has always been a sign of God's love, unity and hospitality to all humanity.
"It is unpleasant that it is considered a sign of division, exclusion or a restriction of freedom."
'Italian tradition'
Many politicians in Italy have reacted angrily.
Education Minister Mariastella Gelmini said the crucifix was a "symbol of our tradition", and not a mark of Catholicism.
One government minister called the ruling "shameful", while another said that Europe was forgetting its Christian heritage.
The government says it will appeal against the decision.
The BBC's Duncan Kennedy in Rome says that it is customary in Italy to see crucifixes in public buildings, including schools, despite the constitution saying that there should be a separation of church and state.
The law requiring crucifixes to be hung in schools dates back to the 1920s.
Although a revised accord between the Vatican and the Italian government ended Catholicism's position as the state religion in 1984, the crucifix law has never been repealed.
Some conservatives have already complained about schools dropping nativity plays to avoid upsetting Muslim children |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 811082
11/5/2009 4:03 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
good for them, religion has no place in any school anywhere on earth.
EDUCATION = FACTS
RELIGION = MYTH AND FAIRY TALES |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 768702
11/5/2009 4:04 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
We are soo near the end, all points to this.. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810233
11/5/2009 4:06 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:11 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
good for them, religion has no place in any school anywhere on earth.
EDUCATION = FACTS
RELIGION = MYTH AND FAIRY TALES Quoting: Anonymous Coward 811082
It's not about religion hours. It has to do just with the religious symbols in public schools. The European Schools have different traditions, not like in USA. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:11 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810233
EU is like USSR in cold war era. The Italian politicians have protested, though. |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:12 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Link: [link to www.cnn.com]
Text:The Italian government is vowing to fight a European court ruling that crucifixes in classrooms violate students' right to freedom of religion.
The European Court of Human Rights found unanimously Tuesday that the display of a particular religious symbol -- such as the Christian cross -- in a classroom "restricted the right of parents to educate their children in conformity with their convictions, and the right of children to believe or not to believe," a court statement said.
The case was brought by an Italian woman, Soile Lautsi, who objected to the crucifixes on the walls in her two sons' classrooms.
Italian courts had ruled earlier that the cross was a symbol of Italy's history and culture, prompting Lautsi to take her case to the European court in Strasbourg, France.
It awarded her 5,000 euros ($7,400) in damages Tuesday.
The Italian government said it would appeal the European Court's verdict and leading Catholic figures expressed astonishment and anger.
The ruling "is cause for bitterness and many perplexities," the Italian Conference of Bishop said in a written statement.
The bishops said they were still studying the ruling, but it appeared to result from "ideological bias" and a lack of understanding of "the multiple significances of the crucifix."
"It does not take into account the fact that in Italy the display of the crucifix in public places is in line with the recognition of the principles of the Catholicism as 'part of the historical patrimony of the Italian people,' as stated in the Vatican/Italy agreement of 1984," the bishops said.
The Vatican in Rome, which has been the seat of the Catholic Church for most of its 2,000-year history, did not officially respond to the ruling.
But Cardinal Giovanni Battista Re told the leading Italian daily La Repubblica he could not understand it, and that no one with common sense could have expected it.
"When I think that we are talking about a symbol, the crucifix, an image that cannot but be the emblem of a universally shared humanity, I not only feel disappointed but also sadness and grief," he said.
"The crucifix is the sign of a God that loves man to the point of giving up his life for him. It is a God that teaches us to learn to love, to pay attention to each man ... and to respect the others, even those who belong to a different culture or religion.
"How could someone not share such a symbol?"
Italy has three months to file a request for a new hearing, court spokesman Stefano Piedimonte told CNN. A five-judge panel will examine the request, officially known as a referral, to determine if it raises sufficiently important issues for a 17-judge Grand Chamber hearing.
Only the Italian government can appeal the verdict, but other interested parties can file briefs if the case goes forward, Piedimonte said.
The European Court of Human Rights was set up in Strasbourg by the Council of Europe Member States in 1959 to deal with alleged violations of the 1950 European Convention on Human Rights. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:15 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
We are soo near the end, all points to this.. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 768702
Agree, friend, tomorrow the religious people, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, will be regarded as retards, useless to "modern globalist society". |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:27 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Other link: [link to www.catholic.org]
Text:Italy's bishops are saying the European Court of Human Rights is guilty of a partial and ideological outlook with its Tuesday decision that crucifixes in public school are a violation of freedom.
The Vatican and the Italian government expressed dismay with Tuesday's decision and Italian bishops expressed their own perplexity.
The court ruled in favor of an Italian citizen of Finnish origin who complained in 2002 that the state school where her two children studied violated their freedom by displaying crucifixes.
The school's administration refused to remove them, contending that the crucifix is part of Italian cultural patrimony; Italian courts subsequently backed this claim.
Now, the Strasbourg-based European court has asked the Italian government to compensate the woman with €5,000 ($7,300).
Judge Nicola Lettieri, who defends Italy in Strasbourg, assured that the Italian government will appeal the decision.
Obligation
The Italian bishops' conference said the decision "causes distress and many perplexities."
"It ignores or neglects the multiple meaning of the crucifix, which not only is a religious symbol, but also a cultural sign," a communiqué from the conference stated. "It does not take into account the fact that, in reality, in the Italian experience, the display of the crucifix in public places is in harmony with the recognition of the principles of Catholicism as part of the historical patrimony of the Italian people, confirmed by the Concordat of 1984."
The bishops cautioned that the ruling "runs the risk of artificially severing the national identity from its spiritual and cultural origins."
The episcopal conference statement maintained that the decision goes beyond a separation of Church and state, and becomes "hostility toward any form of political and cultural relevance of religion."
For his part, jurist Giuseppe Dalla Torre, rector of the LUMSA University of Rome, told the bishops' SIR news agency that the court's argument is "mistaken reasoning based on an assumption that the crucifix might oblige a profession of faith. However, the crucifix is a passive symbol, that is, it does not oblige anyone in conscience." |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810734
11/5/2009 4:31 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Quite the situation considering the Jesuits and the Vatican fully support atheistic marxism, teach secular humanism in most of their schools, and run the EU.
The state schools are toxic anyway. Homeschool. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:35 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Quite the situation considering the Jesuits and the Vatican fully support atheistic marxism, teach secular humanism in most of their schools, and run the EU.
The state schools are toxic anyway. Homeschool. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810734
I remember that Osservatore Romano incite the readers to read Marx! Strange decision from ECHR. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715509
11/5/2009 4:35 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810233
Come Dec. 1st, there will only be the Soverign EU in Europe, there will be no other Soverign nation on that continent.
We warned you. Our fathers and grandfathers were sent to your soil to try to help you prevent this. Twice in the 20th Century. You did no listen. They gave their lives for nothing except to give you the chance to stop this yourselves in the future. You of Europe apparently have failed to learn the same lesson that we in the USA have also failed to learn. Liberty dies quickly. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 811162
11/5/2009 4:36 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810233
Look not only italy isn't anymore a sovereign state but every other nation that joined this european union now as a super government in Bruxelles who think can rule over
But it's stuff like these that are good to awake the ones who sleep, good. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:38 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist.
Come Dec. 1st, there will only be the Soverign EU in Europe, there will be no other Soverign nation on that continent.
We warned you. Our fathers and grandfathers were sent to your soil to try to help you prevent this. Twice in the 20th Century. You did no listen. They gave their lives for nothing except to give you the chance to stop this yourselves in the future. You of Europe apparently have failed to learn the same lesson that we in the USA have also failed to learn. Liberty dies quickly. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715509
Thanks for your Thoughts. You're right! We give our sovereignty to EU, trough Lisbon Treaty. At this time, USA and EU are two giant police big brother super-states. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 715509
11/5/2009 4:46 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist.
Come Dec. 1st, there will only be the Soverign EU in Europe, there will be no other Soverign nation on that continent.
We warned you. Our fathers and grandfathers were sent to your soil to try to help you prevent this. Twice in the 20th Century. You did no listen. They gave their lives for nothing except to give you the chance to stop this yourselves in the future. You of Europe apparently have failed to learn the same lesson that we in the USA have also failed to learn. Liberty dies quickly.
Thanks for your Thoughts. You're right! We give our sovereignty to EU, trough Lisbon Treaty. At this time, USA and EU are two giant police big brother super-states. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 676936
ANd yes, this in Europe is but a continuiation of the Third Empire of the Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation, that Hilter worked so hard to bring to pass. The Crowns of Europw will be retuning visibly soon. The European Council of Princes including those honary princesses such as the Queen of England and the Queen of the Netherlands have little choice but to abide by the rulings of the Prelate of that Holy Roman Empire of the German Nation or be stripped of they thrones.
You did not give it away, BTW, it was extorted away from you. |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 4:58 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
The decision of the court was not well welcomed in Italy, where the people see the religious symbols part of their tradition. The decisions from Bruxelles seems to be like the decisions of soviet commissars in the NKVD era. |
| GONG
User ID: 811218
11/5/2009 5:08 PM
 | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Me being Italian can tell you OP that as a reaction just today a lot more crucifixes are hanging on school room that previously did not had them.
So if this is the reaction they wanted they got a big one, just today in my child school placed the crosses back in every room, they where removed years ago. And the rector is not even Catholic.
You know what you cant do in italy ? no well this was one of the thing not to do because the cross is for every italian a sacred symbol you cant remove that and think people will just accept it, but surely you can expect some reaction and there are many people now asking in the back of their heads what the hell is this EU really and who run it.
So all in all this is a good thing, but all other European people on this forum know this is the proof that most of us feared to have our countries have been sold out and also our sovereignity with them.
Last, if the Vatican was that super powerful entity that cotrol the world has many conspirationist want one to beleive how you think they could "the EU court" pass such a ridiculous thing against their most sacred symbol in their home country?.
Start to see the truth for what is, the EU is run by Atheist, Agnostic and Masons, their multiculturalism forced on everyone troath with violence in these past 15 years associated with the recent will to remove of ancient symbols who are heritage and part of the story of a nation only lead to a conclusion.
And you have to find it, but dont be wrong people would fight for things like these. What an evil sopciety they are constructing and forcing everyone to live in.
Tomorrow I will take my little gold cross which sit on a closet since years and wear it again proudly.
“Skepticism is the easiest way: believe nothing, do nothing.
UFO sightings archives [link to www.v-servers.eu] |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 5:16 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Me being Italian can tell you OP that as a reaction just today a lot more crucifixes are hanging on school room that previously did not had them.
So if this is the reaction they wanted they got a big one, just today in my child school placed the crosses back in every room, they where removed years ago. And the rector is not even Catholic.
You know what you cant do in italy ? no well this was one of the thing not to do because the cross is for every italian a sacred symbol you cant remove that and think people will just accept it, but surely you can expect some reaction and there are many people now asking in the back of their heads what the hell is this EU really and who run it.
So all in all this is a good thing, but all other European people on this forum know this is the proof that most of us feared to have our countries have been sold out and also our sovereignity with them.
Last, if the Vatican was that super powerful entity that cotrol the world has many conspirationist want one to beleive how you think they could "the EU court" pass such a ridiculous thing against their most sacred symbol in their home country?.
Start to see the truth for what is, the EU is run by Atheist, Agnostic and Masons, their multiculturalism forced on everyone troath with violence in these past 15 years associated with the recent will to remove of ancient symbols who are heritage and part of the story of a nation only lead to a conclusion.
And you have to find it, but dont be wrong people would fight for things like these. What an evil sopciety they are constructing and forcing everyone to live in.
Tomorrow I will take my little gold cross which sit on a closet since years and wear it again proudly. Quoting: GONG
My bravissimo for you, Italian friend. Be proud of your symbols. It's good to se the reaction from there. God bless Italy! |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 768702
11/5/2009 5:17 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist.
Come Dec. 1st, there will only be the Soverign EU in Europe, there will be no other Soverign nation on that continent.
We warned you. Our fathers and grandfathers were sent to your soil to try to help you prevent this. Twice in the 20th Century. You did no listen. They gave their lives for nothing except to give you the chance to stop this yourselves in the future. You of Europe apparently have failed to learn the same lesson that we in the USA have also failed to learn. Liberty dies quickly. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 715509
That is not fair.
Almost every countrys people have NOT been able to vote for or against the treaty. Our governments have a club of their own and wether red or blur ALL are for this filth.
The treason is from Irish people that had the chance to vote and voted Yes. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 5:20 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
I guess the sovereign state of Italy does not exist.
Come Dec. 1st, there will only be the Soverign EU in Europe, there will be no other Soverign nation on that continent.
We warned you. Our fathers and grandfathers were sent to your soil to try to help you prevent this. Twice in the 20th Century. You did no listen. They gave their lives for nothing except to give you the chance to stop this yourselves in the future. You of Europe apparently have failed to learn the same lesson that we in the USA have also failed to learn. Liberty dies quickly.
That is not fair.
Almost every countrys people have NOT been able to vote for or against the treaty. Our governments have a club of their own and wether red or blur ALL are for this filth.
The treason is from Irish people that had the chance to vote and voted Yes. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 768702
You're right and partially not right. In most of the countries, the Lisbon Treaty was approved only in Parliament, signed by the Presidents. In Ireland was a double referendum, but let's not blame the Irish people for voting yes second time. EU is not representative for the Europeans.Happy Revolution? |
| GONG
User ID: 811218
11/5/2009 5:31 PM
| | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Me being Italian can tell you OP that as a reaction just today a lot more crucifixes are hanging on school room that previously did not had them.
So if this is the reaction they wanted they got a big one, just today in my child school placed the crosses back in every room, they where removed years ago. And the rector is not even Catholic.
You know what you cant do in italy ? no well this was one of the thing not to do because the cross is for every italian a sacred symbol you cant remove that and think people will just accept it, but surely you can expect some reaction and there are many people now asking in the back of their heads what the hell is this EU really and who run it.
So all in all this is a good thing, but all other European people on this forum know this is the proof that most of us feared to have our countries have been sold out and also our sovereignity with them.
Last, if the Vatican was that super powerful entity that cotrol the world has many conspirationist want one to beleive how you think they could "the EU court" pass such a ridiculous thing against their most sacred symbol in their home country?.
Start to see the truth for what is, the EU is run by Atheist, Agnostic and Masons, their multiculturalism forced on everyone troath with violence in these past 15 years associated with the recent will to remove of ancient symbols who are heritage and part of the story of a nation only lead to a conclusion.
And you have to find it, but dont be wrong people would fight for things like these. What an evil sopciety they are constructing and forcing everyone to live in.
Tomorrow I will take my little gold cross which sit on a closet since years and wear it again proudly.
My bravissimo for you, Italian friend. Be proud of your symbols. It's good to se the reaction from there. God bless Italy! Quoting: The Grey Knight 676936
Thank you OP God bless you to!.
P.S. IMHO this time they made a walk bigger than their leg.
“Skepticism is the easiest way: believe nothing, do nothing.
UFO sightings archives [link to www.v-servers.eu] |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 654301
11/5/2009 5:34 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Agree, friend, tomorrow the religious people, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, will be regarded as retards, useless to "modern globalist society". Quoting: Anonymous Coward 676936
so there is a bright future ahead! |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 5:37 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Me being Italian can tell you OP that as a reaction just today a lot more crucifixes are hanging on school room that previously did not had them.
So if this is the reaction they wanted they got a big one, just today in my child school placed the crosses back in every room, they where removed years ago. And the rector is not even Catholic.
You know what you cant do in italy ? no well this was one of the thing not to do because the cross is for every italian a sacred symbol you cant remove that and think people will just accept it, but surely you can expect some reaction and there are many people now asking in the back of their heads what the hell is this EU really and who run it.
So all in all this is a good thing, but all other European people on this forum know this is the proof that most of us feared to have our countries have been sold out and also our sovereignity with them.
Last, if the Vatican was that super powerful entity that cotrol the world has many conspirationist want one to beleive how you think they could "the EU court" pass such a ridiculous thing against their most sacred symbol in their home country?.
Start to see the truth for what is, the EU is run by Atheist, Agnostic and Masons, their multiculturalism forced on everyone troath with violence in these past 15 years associated with the recent will to remove of ancient symbols who are heritage and part of the story of a nation only lead to a conclusion.
And you have to find it, but dont be wrong people would fight for things like these. What an evil sopciety they are constructing and forcing everyone to live in.
Tomorrow I will take my little gold cross which sit on a closet since years and wear it again proudly.
My bravissimo for you, Italian friend. Be proud of your symbols. It's good to se the reaction from there. God bless Italy!
Thank you OP God bless you to!.
P.S. IMHO this time they made a walk bigger than their leg. Quoting: GONG
 |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 5:38 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Agree, friend, tomorrow the religious people, Christians, Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, will be regarded as retards, useless to "modern globalist society".
so there is a bright future ahead! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 654301
"Bright" future ahead. I'm not a fundamentalist, but without respect for diversity and beliefs we are not a true free society. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 661844
11/5/2009 5:42 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
A Vatican spokesman, Federico Lombardi, said the crucifix was a fundamental sign of the importance of religious values in Italian history and culture, and was a symbol of unity and welcoming for all of humanity, not one of exclusion. Quoting: The Grey Knight 676936
Of course the Vatican said that. They are the ones instigating the whole destruction of Christianity.
It's all part of the plan for one world religion. |
| The Grey Knight
User ID: 676936 (OP)
11/5/2009 5:44 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
A Vatican spokesman, Federico Lombardi, said the crucifix was a fundamental sign of the importance of religious values in Italian history and culture, and was a symbol of unity and welcoming for all of humanity, not one of exclusion.
Of course the Vatican said that. They are the ones instigating the whole destruction of Christianity.
It's all part of the plan for one world religion. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 661844
Maybe, but I bet that you are in mind Jesuits and Opus Dei. The ordinary Catholic people are not to blame this. Besides, The Cross is a sign for all Christians, for all Churches. |
| Anonymous Coward
User ID: 793351
11/5/2009 6:13 PM | | Re: European Court of Human Rights says the Crucifixes from Italian Schools are violating educational freedom and it must be observed confessional neutral | Quote |
Me being Italian can tell you OP that as a reaction just today a lot more crucifixes are hanging on school room that previously did not had them.
So if this is the reaction they wanted they got a big one, just today in my child school placed the crosses back in every room, they where removed years ago. And the rector is not even Catholic.
You know what you cant do in italy ? no well this was one of the thing not to do because the cross is for every italian a sacred symbol you cant remove that and think people will just accept it, but surely you can expect some reaction and there are many people now asking in the back of their heads what the hell is this EU really and who run it.
So all in all this is a good thing, but all other European people on this forum know this is the proof that most of us feared to have our countries have been sold out and also our sovereignity with them.
Last, if the Vatican was that super powerful entity that cotrol the world has many conspirationist want one to beleive how you think they could "the EU court" pass such a ridiculous thing against their most sacred symbol in their home country?.
Start to see the truth for what is, the EU is run by Atheist, Agnostic and Masons, their multiculturalism forced on everyone troath with violence in these past 15 years associated with the recent will to remove of ancient symbols who are heritage and part of the story of a nation only lead to a conclusion.
And you have to find it, but dont be wrong people would fight for things like these. What an evil sopciety they are constructing and forcing everyone to live in.
Tomorrow I will take my little gold cross which sit on a closet since years and wear it again proudly. Quoting: GONG
Italy,defend your spiritual freedom and life,as a nation and as an individual.That is most important now,and in times coming ...!
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