|
| Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993
 United States
11/7/2009 9:32 AM
Report abusive post | Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k
| Quote |
[link to online.wsj.com]
* The Wall Street Journal
* OPINION
* NOVEMBER 6, 2009, 9:58 P.M. ET
What the Pelosi Health-Care Bill Really Says
Here are some important passages in the 2,000 page legislation.
By BETSY MCCAUGHEY
The health bill that House Speaker Nancy Pelosi is bringing to a vote (H.R. 3962) is 1,990 pages. Here are some of the details you need to know.
What the government will require you to do:
Sec. 202 (p. 91-92) of the bill requires you to enroll in a "qualified plan." If you get your insurance at work, your employer will have a "grace period" to switch you to a "qualified plan," meaning a plan designed by the Secretary of Health and Human Services. If you buy your own insurance, there's no grace period. You'll have to enroll in a qualified plan as soon as any term in your contract changes, such as the co-pay, deductible or benefit.
Sec. 224 (p. 118) provides that 18 months after the bill becomes law, the Secretary of Health and Human Services will decide what a "qualified plan" covers and how much you'll be legally required to pay for it. That's like a banker telling you to sign the loan agreement now, then filling in the interest rate and repayment terms 18 months later.
On Nov. 2, the Congressional Budget Office estimated what the plans will likely cost. An individual earning $44,000 before taxes who purchases his own insurance will have to pay a $5,300 premium and an estimated $2,000 in out-of-pocket expenses, for a total of $7,300 a year, which is 17% of his pre-tax income. A family earning $102,100 a year before taxes will have to pay a $15,000 premium plus an estimated $5,300 out-of-pocket, for a $20,300 total, or 20% of its pre-tax income. Individuals and families earning less than these amounts will be eligible for subsidies paid directly to their insurer.
Sec. 303 (pp. 167-168) makes it clear that, although the "qualified plan" is not yet designed, it will be of the "one size fits all" variety. The bill claims to offer choicebasic, enhanced and premium levelsbut the benefits are the same. Only the co-pays and deductibles differ. You will have to enroll in the same plan, whether the government is paying for it or you and your employer are footing the bill.
Sec. 59b (pp. 297-299) says that when you file your taxes, you must include proof that you are in a qualified plan. If not, you will be fined thousands of dollars. Illegal immigrants are exempt from this requirement.
Sec. 412 (p. 272) says that employers must provide a "qualified plan" for their employees and pay 72.5% of the cost, and a smaller share of family coverage, or incur an 8% payroll tax. Small businesses, with payrolls from $500,000 to $750,000, are fined less.
Eviscerating Medicare:
In addition to reducing future Medicare funding by an estimated $500 billion, the bill fundamentally changes how Medicare pays doctors and hospitals, permitting the government to dictate treatment decisions.
Sec. 1302 (pp. 672-692) moves Medicare from a fee-for-service payment system, in which patients choose which doctors to see and doctors are paid for each service they provide, toward what's called a "medical home."
The medical home is this decade's version of HMO-restrictions on care. A primary-care provider manages access to costly specialists and diagnostic tests for a flat monthly fee. The bill specifies that patients may have to settle for a nurse practitioner rather than a physician as the primary-care provider. Medical homes begin with demonstration projects, but the HHS secretary is authorized to "disseminate this approach rapidly on a national basis."
A December 2008 Congressional Budget Office report noted that "medical homes" were likely to resemble the unpopular gatekeepers of 20 years ago if cost control was a priority.
Sec. 1114 (pp. 391-393) replaces physicians with physician assistants in overseeing care for hospice patients.
Secs. 1158-1160 (pp. 499-520) initiates programs to reduce payments for patient care to what it costs in the lowest cost regions of the country. This will reduce payments for care (and by implication the standard of care) for hospital patients in higher cost areas such as New York and Florida.
Sec. 1161 (pp. 520-545) cuts payments to Medicare Advantage plans (used by 20% of seniors). Advantage plans have warned this will result in reductions in optional benefits such as vision and dental care.
Sec. 1402 (p. 756) says that the results of comparative effectiveness research conducted by the government will be delivered to doctors electronically to guide their use of "medical items and services."
Questionable Priorities:
While the bill will slash Medicare funding, it will also direct billions of dollars to numerous inner-city social work and diversity programs with vague standards of accountability.
Sec. 399V (p. 1422) provides for grants to community "entities" with no required qualifications except having "documented community activity and experience with community healthcare workers" to "educate, guide, and provide experiential learning opportunities" aimed at drug abuse, poor nutrition, smoking and obesity. "Each community health worker program receiving funds under the grant will provide services in the cultural context most appropriate for the individual served by the program."
These programs will "enhance the capacity of individuals to utilize health services and health related social services under Federal, State and local programs by assisting individuals in establishing eligibility . . . and in receiving services and other benefits" including transportation and translation services.
Sec. 222 (p. 617) provides reimbursement for culturally and linguistically appropriate services. This program will train health-care workers to inform Medicare beneficiaries of their "right" to have an interpreter at all times and with no co-pays for language services.
Secs. 2521 and 2533 (pp. 1379 and 1437) establishes racial and ethnic preferences in awarding grants for training nurses and creating secondary-school health science programs. For example, grants for nursing schools should "give preference to programs that provide for improving the diversity of new nurse graduates to reflect changes in the demographics of the patient population." And secondary-school grants should go to schools "graduating students from disadvantaged backgrounds including racial and ethnic minorities."
Sec. 305 (p. 189) Provides for automatic Medicaid enrollment of newborns who do not otherwise have insurance.
For the text of the bill with page numbers, see www.defendyourhealthcare.us.
Ms. McCaughey is chairman of the Committee to Reduce Infection Deaths and a former Lt. Governor of New York state. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993 (OP)
United States
11/7/2009 9:34 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Outside of any debate on whether we should have universal health care or not, I simply do not know how anyone can afford this.
The other problem is that people will not have any money left to buy anything, which will result in the economy going down further and more people losing their jobs. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 679788
United States
11/7/2009 9:50 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
WTF
This is just one of the problems with the healthcare bill it is not about helathcare. It is about special interest, welfare programs. More spending less care. Even the liberals must see this or they dont care as they want more programs that put us more in debt. Why dont they just regulate the insurance companies and lawyers. By the way when a lawsuit is done because a pt is iinjured how come the lawyer gets most the money. They get 30-40% of the "win" plus they get all their lawyers fees. Ends up being 60 or more %. In florida we passed a law that said they lawyers total income can not be more than 30%. Floridians voted. Now lawyers go around telling people they wont tae their case unless they sign a form waiving that right. If it is about the injured person why is this OK? |
|
Bagatell
User ID: 768577
 Spain
11/7/2009 9:50 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
The other problem is that people will not have any money left to buy anything, which will result in the economy going down further and more people losing their jobs. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 772993
The average USA salary is approx $34,000. Dosn't leave a lot if they take $15,000. Thank Bush you have such a large prison system to cope with this. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993 (OP)
United States
11/7/2009 9:52 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
I think in general we need to get away from politics. Neither party is doing a very good job.
We need to focus on the national debt. Whether it's health care spending, cap and trad or the wars in Iraq/Afghan - it all costs a ton of money.
We the people must stay on top of Congress to cut spending or the dollar will become worthless. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
 Thailand
11/7/2009 9:53 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Here's the deal on the numbers from the title from a self employed perspective:
$20K, of course, is 20% of a $100K income or $1666.67 per month for an insurance policy
Charging me $20K for a service that I most likely will not use each year. Might as well just throw my income out the window from a fast moving car.
OR
$20K in a health savings account for the times that I do need it. Five years = $100K. We do this now.
So...............
20% of my annual income, or $20K for $100K, for a service I might not use.
OR
2.5% of my income as a penalty.........
That decision is basic economics.
That said, fuck this unconstitutional bill and the thieves legislating it. I'll fight it as long as it takes.
. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 487397
United States
11/7/2009 10:01 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
I get what you're saying TX - and I kind of agree with the following exception. One year with one surgery (including pre & post op visits) is going to cost more like 30-40 grand. and if you, like everyone, are aging and you have a 'bout with say breast cancer that'll run you more like a buck fifty and then follow ups for 5 years and being monitored more closely for the rest of your life.
This health insurance screws you when you are young & healthy. Car insurance screws you until you need it. Insurance is as much of a gamble as throwing dice.
The fact is, insurance companies need to be out of the equation and medical care needs to cost what the actual market (ie PATIENTS) can bear, not litigious/administration-heavy insurance companies. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
Thailand
11/7/2009 10:02 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Here's the deal on the numbers from the title from a self employed perspective:
$20K, of course, is 20% of a $100K income or $1666.67 per month for an insurance policy
Charging me $20K for a service that I most likely will not use each year. Might as well just throw my income out the window from a fast moving car.
OR
$20K in a health savings account for the times that I do need it. Five years = $100K. We do this now.
So...............
20% of my annual income, or $20K for $100K, for a service I might not use.
OR
2.5% of my income as a penalty.........
That decision is basic economics.
That said, fuck this unconstitutional bill and the thieves legislating it. I'll fight it as long as it takes.
. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
Thailand
11/7/2009 10:03 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Sooooo sorry for the dup posts! I'm having problems with my connection and GLP.
. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993 (OP)
United States
11/7/2009 10:04 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
2.5% of your income as a penalty? Pelosi wants to jail people for a max of 5 years for not paying.
[link to republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov]
Section 7203 misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
Section 7201 felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. [page 3] |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 679788
United States
11/7/2009 10:04 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Here's the deal on the numbers from the title from a self employed perspective:
$20K, of course, is 20% of a $100K income or $1666.67 per month for an insurance policy
Charging me $20K for a service that I most likely will not use each year. Might as well just throw my income out the window from a fast moving car.
OR
$20K in a health savings account for the times that I do need it. Five years = $100K. We do this now.
So...............
20% of my annual income, or $20K for $100K, for a service I might not use.
OR
2.5% of my income as a penalty.........
That decision is basic economics.
That said, fuck this unconstitutional bill and the thieves legislating it. I'll fight it as long as it takes.
. Quoting: TX PATRIOT 812523
That is higher than most mortgages. I thought they were going to reduce costs. Sounds like another boost for insurance companies |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812615
United States
11/7/2009 10:05 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Umm, you tards don't realize that this is just S.S. gone wild.
They don't keep your S.S. money in a lock box, do they?
This whole healthcare scam is just another way to mandate tax dollars out of your pocket that won't be spent on your healthcare, any time soon. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812662
United States
11/7/2009 10:07 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
As a small biz owner this is crazy. I'll have to live on the street...but I'll have health coverage...kind of. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993 (OP)
United States
11/7/2009 10:10 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
As a small biz owner this is crazy. I'll have to live on the street...but I'll have health coverage...kind of. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812662
Well at least you'll be covered for frostbite and heat exhaustion. LOL |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 772993 (OP)
United States
11/7/2009 10:14 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
The plan is an economic disaster. After one pays for health care you won't have money to buy a new TV, car, fridge, go on vacation, etc.
The end result is people working in these industries will lose more and more jobs.
This means less tax revenue and ironically more people without income that can't afford to pay health insurance.
So Pelosi's plan ironically, given its high cost, is self collapsing. |
|
Resister 
In God we trust
User ID: 625292
United States
11/7/2009 10:19 AM
 | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
This "health" care bill isn't about health at all. It's about the government taking total control of our lives.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 375962
United States
11/7/2009 10:19 AM | |
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 539218
United States
11/7/2009 10:24 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
You people think this is bad....Wait until Cap and Trade takes effect....90% increase in electric bill, 90% increase in gas, 90% increase in home heating oil and natural gas....and then....everything you buy will go up 90% due to these costs being passed on.....
The Demoncrats are going to break us down.....to 3rd world status........
I will need the health care....Because this is all making me SICK...
. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
Thailand
11/7/2009 10:25 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
I get what you're saying TX - and I kind of agree with the following exception. One year with one surgery (including pre & post op visits) is going to cost more like 30-40 grand. and if you, like everyone, are aging and you have a 'bout with say breast cancer that'll run you more like a buck fifty and then follow ups for 5 years and being monitored more closely for the rest of your life.
This health insurance screws you when you are young & healthy. Car insurance screws you until you need it. Insurance is as much of a gamble as throwing dice.
The fact is, insurance companies need to be out of the equation and medical care needs to cost what the actual market (ie PATIENTS) can bear, not litigious/administration-heavy insurance companies. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 487397
We are middle age/older (40s and mid 50s). We have used our health savings for em hospital visits. Expensive? Absolutely: $35K for ER and two days of hospital care and intense testing. We negotiated the bill and paid cash...because we had the money in health savings.
Any elective or non-em, scheduled hospital treatments we arrange for treatment outside the US. Understandably, not everyone is in a position to do this.
But more importantly, in most cases, I choose natural and not chemical health care, which is much more effective and much less expensive; although, I'm glad that "conventional" medicine is available for times it is needed.
That said, though, I will NOT throw my income out the window making insurance companies or my gov rich on the premise just in case I might need the money later. That's TWENTY PERCENT of one's income. No, thanks on the ponzi scheme. I'll keep my money in the bank.
Further, a private catastrophic policy doesn't cost as much as this "gov is here to save us" plan(!): last we checked $12K/yr for two.
Congress and their handlers are f-cking insane!
. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
Thailand
11/7/2009 10:26 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
2.5% of your income as a penalty? Pelosi wants to jail people for a max of 5 years for not paying.
[ link to republicans.waysandmeans.house.gov]
Section 7203 misdemeanor willful failure to pay is punishable by a fine of up to $25,000 and/or imprisonment of up to one year.
Section 7201 felony willful evasion is punishable by a fine of up to $250,000 and/or imprisonment of up to five years. [page 3]
No, that is the penalty for not paying the opt-out excise tax of 2.5% of income.
. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812615
United States
11/7/2009 10:27 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
This "health" care bill isn't about health at all. It's about the government taking total control of our lives. Quoting: Resister
 |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 243849
 Canada
11/7/2009 10:28 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Wow, so if you $100 000 a year, pay the IRS $45 000, then health care $20 000, that leaves you with $35 000 which works out to $2916.33 a month for a mortgage, utilities with a soon inflated carbon tax, property taxes, groceries, clothing, gasoline / transportation car payment lease.
That is cutting it pretty close. At first many libtards will think 2900 a month is alot of money to live but I pay $1650 a month in rent, $850 a month in truck payments, I've got three kids & a wife, I'm supporting my in laws. I seriously couldn't get by on three grand a month considering I have to work 120 hours a week to get this. |
|
TX PATRIOT
User ID: 812523
Thailand
11/7/2009 10:30 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
This "health" care bill isn't about health at all. It's about the government taking total control of our lives. Quoting: Resister
Nail meet hammer. Spot on, Resister.
. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 812684
 United Kingdom
11/7/2009 10:41 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
This is nothing but a thieves charter. Taxation without representation.... |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 789005
United States
11/7/2009 10:45 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
This is nothing but a thieves charter. Taxation without representation.... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812684
And I will refuse to pay it regardless of the result.
Fuck these fools. |
|
jkm1864
User ID: 765872
United States
11/7/2009 10:52 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
I made 111k last year but I had to spend 9 months away from my family and worked 18 hour days. The work has slowed down this year and I might end up loosing my house. If this bill passed the chances of loosing my house will be 100%. I am tired of having to work extra hours so I can pay the damn bankers now I have to pay for mandated healthcare. This is getting pathetic because after this passes the middle class will be permanent slaves to the elite and Obama's voting block. Can't wait to see all the people go crazy and start shooting up stuff. |
|
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 813252
Thailand
11/8/2009 2:53 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
. |
|
Texas Uncensored
User ID: 813058
United States
11/8/2009 3:05 AM
 | |
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810358
United States
11/8/2009 3:13 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
Ms.Pelosi, what is a Federal Reserve Note and how can I actually "pay" with it ?
I will be happy to pay EVERYONES health insurance bill if you could please explain to me what a Federal Reserve Note is ..
Please commit treason and tell us ... |
|
Doomorrow
User ID: 795762
United States
11/8/2009 3:35 AM | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
the purpose of Keynesian governments is to increase mandatory expenditures.
The government is your company store.
You work and get vouchers for insurance, housing, and food.
We are all no longer individual streams feeding into the river of free markets. Everything is being diverted to Washington for redistribution by the intellectually superior. |
|
Bluebird
User ID: 730536
United States
11/8/2009 3:43 AM
 | | Re: Pelosi Care - WSJ - $20k per year cost for self employed earning $100k | Quote |
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. |
|
| Page 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 |
|
