all you loudmouths sitting behind your pc tapping away on your keyboards, wont do jackshit about anything.
why not act so tough in the real world?
all this bullshit i read here about 'yeah revolt people, im gonna shoot the guy who comes to my door, you cant mess with us real americans....', stfu dumbass, you wont do shit.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 812621
Don't count your chickens...they haven't sent anyone to doors yet.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 806268 United States 11/7/2009 5:45 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
By the way ALL of those federal government programs are unconstitutional and should have never been enacted in the first place
So you're saying the Dept. of Defense is unconstitutional? So the Iraq war is unconstitional? Homeland Security is unconstitutional?
You're a fucking moron.
Get an education please!
Geez, folks! I seriously believe that we should have gone for EDUCATION REFORM before we tackled Health Care Reform because we sure have a lot of stupid ass people in this country. Especially on this forum!
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790994
Noted, you are the enemy.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 812695 United States 11/7/2009 5:45 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
If you aren't happy with your carrier you can change; if they don't remain competitive and make their customers happy they go out of business AND are regulated by the Department of Insurance. Their denials are based on....wait for it....Medicare/Medicaid denied services (laughing). If they deny something that Medicare/Medicaid covers then they are in violation of the DOI guidelines for health insurance.
The ONLY people against that are health care insurance executives, who see theor gravy train ending.
Patients aren't against it.
Doctors aren't against it. As long as their reimbursements aren't cut 20% -- which is one of the ways the repubs are trying to squash this, by supporting an amemndment which does exactly that.
Hospitals aren't against it -- as long as we get rid of the antiquated reimbursemnet schedule that rewards hospitals in NYC, NY twice as much as in Mobile, AL or Cheyenne, MT.
Please provide links to support that other patients aren't against, that the majority of doctors are for this plan, that hospitals are for this plan.
I have cousins who are doctors and nurses, friends who are doctors, nurses, PAs, CNAs, PTs who all recognize the debacle that this bill is. I work for a large hospital in a major metropolitan area and know of the staff physicians who oppose this bill as well as medical ancillary staff.
Also, to address "get rid of the antiquated reimbursemnet schedule that rewards hospitals in NYC, NY twice as much as in Mobile, AL or Cheyenne, MT"...as soon as we can get the cost of living in NYC to equal that of Mobile, AL or Cheyenne, MT that will not be feasible as overhead is greater in NYC than it is in rural areas. Or are you proposing that rent, salaries, etc that are paid in NYC should also be equal in rural areas?
Quoting: Smilin' Irish Eyes
If you think it is just so easy to cahnge your insurance to a fairer one, I don't think you grasp that that is EXACTLY the problem -- you can't.
And another one with the anecdotal "I know docs, PA, RNs..." blah, blah, blah.
See the posted article from the New England Journal. Unless you have a better study, and you don't, that ENDS the discussion about how docs feel.
Elias Waiting for the FAA inspector who is God. User ID: 689232 United States 11/7/2009 5:47 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
While I'm at it, I expect all of you to RENOUNCE the Deparment of Defense, Homeland Security, State National Guard Units, Coast Guard, FBI, Police and Sheriff Depts., etc.
I FULLY EXPECT YOU TO RENOUNCE ALL OF THESE PUBLIC GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS.
You all think you're all so fucking smart.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790994
Screw off you commie bastard!
I am NOT going to pay for your doctor visits, you pompous ass. This country needs a violent revolution, you and those like you are proof of that.
I guess you don't give a shit that people are dying due to the fact that they have been canceled or denied care by their insurance companies. Talk about "death panels".
You're a fucking idiot and so is Trin. And no, I don't have to respect him. This is a public forum and I will speak my truth.
And honey, I work in a medical malpractice law firm. You don't have to tell me anything about physicians you work with. I know plenty of physicians and health care providers who are for "universal coverage".
OH and as far as state taxes that pay for public services. Who do you think pays for that? We do.
You talk a good talk but it's based on bullshit.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790994
No this truly isn't a public forum, this is Trinity's forum. He's the host, he's the boss of this place. If you disagree with him, fine *shrug* go to another forum or else stay here and show a modicrum of respect.
And darling, you work for a law firm says it all
Please let me know where these people are that are dying because due to EMTALA prohibits hospitals denying emergency care. Now who's talking smack?
Also, for those treated under EMTALA that can't pay, the hospitals are reimbursed under Medicare Section 1011 monies or through the state's Medicaid funds.
Have a good night honey. How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. The Merchant of Venice. Act. v. Sc. 1. W. Shakespeare
Anonymous Coward User ID: 739419 United States 11/7/2009 5:49 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
By the way ALL of those federal government programs are unconstitutional and should have never been enacted in the first place
So you're saying the Dept. of Defense is unconstitutional? So the Iraq war is unconstitional? Homeland Security is unconstitutional?
You're a fucking moron.
Get an education please!
Geez, folks! I seriously believe that we should have gone for EDUCATION REFORM before we tackled Health Care Reform because we sure have a lot of stupid ass people in this country. Especially on this forum!
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790994
You said medicare, medicaid and social security.
You didn't say anything about defense.
That is the one thing they're supposed to be doing.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 464288 United States 11/7/2009 5:54 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
* 42% Support Health Care Reform After Release of Pelosi's Version
* 83% Say Proof of Citizenship Should Be Required to Get Government Health Aid
* 48% Want Abortion Coverage Banned in Health Care Plan
* 83% Say Congress Should Post Bills Online For All To Read Before Voting On Them
* Only 22% Say Most in Congress Will Understand Health Care Plan Before They Vote
* 66% Angry at Government Policies, 60% Say Neither Party Has Answers
* 49% See GOP Takeover of Congress Next Year As Possible
* 72% Say Health Plan Likely to Shift Employees from Private Insurance to Government Plan
:dont:
Quoting: Smilin' Irish Eyes
Look I will give you the benefit of the doubt that you are unintentionally conflating issues.
You asked for a poll about how docs feel. I gave you the NEJM. You say you trumping that with a Rasmussen poll about the general population. We can discuss the merits of that poll and critically analyze its purported results, but that is NOT an answer to the original question about how docs feel about healthcare reform.
and btw, of course rents etc are higher in NYC. That doesn't justify the incredible disparity in payments for procedure based on region.
And if you are a doc's wife and work in his office, exactly how do you feel about the fact that the Dems wanted to fix the proposed 20% cut in reimbursements scheduled to take effect in January, and the repubs fillibustered it so it the entire bill would become more unpalatable.
The Repubs said a big "fuck you" to your husband and family.
Were you aware of that???
Anonymous Coward User ID: 743646 United States 11/7/2009 5:56 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
While I'm at it, I expect all of you to RENOUNCE the Deparment of Defense, Homeland Security, State National Guard Units, Coast Guard, FBI, Police and Sheriff Depts., etc.
I FULLY EXPECT YOU TO RENOUNCE ALL OF THESE PUBLIC GOVERNMENT RUN PROGRAMS.
You all think you're all so fucking smart.
All of these programs are government-run enterprise which serve the public good.
NOW TRIN I EXPECT YOU TO RENOUNCE ALL OF THESE OR GET THE HELL OUT OF MY COUNTRY.
Same to the rest of you nutcases.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 790994
Or what? You'll tax us some more.
Don't worry this will push a lot more of those evil capitalists out.
Then where will you get your pound of flesh?
Anonymous Coward User ID: 777757 United States 11/7/2009 5:57 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
If you think it is just so easy to cahnge your insurance to a fairer one, I don't think you grasp that that is EXACTLY the problem -- you can't.
See the posted article from the New England Journal. Unless you have a better study, and you don't, that ENDS the discussion about how docs feel.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 464288
JAMA that has had numerous conflict of interest suits and scandals? LOL!!! I needed that laugh, yet another outlet for liberal propaganda (yes, I read JAMA and yes, I can discern the political slant)
BTW, check out health insurance discount companies such as Synergy Health (honestly just trying to show other options)
If you think it is just so easy to cahnge your insurance to a fairer one, I don't think you grasp that that is EXACTLY the problem -- you can't.
See the posted article from the New England Journal. Unless you have a better study, and you don't, that ENDS the discussion about how docs feel.
JAMA that has had numerous conflict of interest suits and scandals? LOL!!! I needed that laugh, yet another outlet for liberal propaganda (yes, I read JAMA and yes, I can discern the political slant)
BTW, check out health insurance discount companies such as Synergy Health (honestly just trying to show other options)
Well, according to the law, this is what is supposed to be done and really, it sound pretty good to me:
-Form a group of people (local officials, law officers, military, and business owners) that feel the same way you do.
-Organize a meeting in order to split the legal fees and get a lawyer to find out which laws have been broken and which charges need to be placed.
-File a multi-person law suit against all the representatives and politicians in favor of this bill.
-If your representative votes in favor of, head to their office and demand their resignation for breaking the law. Give them 30 days to resign. Give them a copy of the law suit, just in case it wound up ‘missing’.
-If they refuse to resign within 30 days, head to your sheriffs office and tell him he needs to place them under arrest for the several constitutional laws that were broken.
-Tell your sheriff if he does not enforce the law, you will go to the media and expose him for doing such. In addition, tell him he too will need to resign.
-Find the deputies and remind them that they swore to uphold the laws of the land.
-Find the local judge and tell him you intend to place the representative under citizens arrest for the said charges. Then, demand that if he sets bail to order the representative temporarily dismissed until further notice. Tell the judge he must set hearing dates for the said charges. Remind the judge how serious of an issue this is and if it is treason, bail should NOT be set.
-Go to the representative’s office and place them under citizen’s arrest. Hand them over to a deputy.
Not Constitutional
U.S. Constitution - Article 1 Section 6
Article 1 - The Legislative Branch
Section 6 - Compensation
(The Senators and Representatives shall receive a Compensation for their Services, to be ascertained by Law, and paid out of the Treasury of the United States.) (The preceding words in parentheses were modified by the 27th Amendment.) They shall in all Cases, except Treason, Felony and Breach of the Peace, be privileged from Arrest during their Attendance at the Session of their respective Houses, and in going to and returning from the same; and for any Speech or Debate in either House, they shall not be questioned in any other Place.
Also Article 1, Section 3, Clause 6
Clause 6: The Senate shall have the sole Power to try all Impeachments. When sitting for that Purpose, they shall be on Oath or Affirmation. When the President of the United States is tried, the Chief Justice shall preside: And no Person shall be convicted without the Concurrence of two thirds of the Members present.
BUT, if you look at Section 9, Clause 6
Clause 6: No Preference shall be given by any Regulation of Commerce or Revenue to the Ports of one State over those of another: nor shall Vessels bound to, or from, one State, be obliged to enter, clear, or pay Duties in another.
This clause may make this healthcare bill unconstitutional under the regulation of Commerce. Thoughts?
Quoting: Smilin' Irish Eyes 656642
As far as I can tell the representatives ARE NOT representing their districts. If they were, no one would vote for this. Look at the town hall meetings. They decided to close those down very quickly. Running 3000 page bills through giving no one time to review them, I can go on for an hour. The door should be SLAMMED.
Then we have the issue of proof of birth (fail), 50 social security numbers (fail), zars, to me it looks like an invasion. If we were invaded tomorrow, and the Whitehouse overtaken, would we let them change the laws then say, "oh well, snooze we loose"?.. No. We would remove them, physically if need be, then put things back in order. Amendments and other 'acts' are null and void at that point and to be honest, many were set in place to make these criminals untouchable. BS.
The way the constitution and bill of right have been spat on over the last year is beyond amazing. We have an Oligarchy in place, Goldman Sachs runs the United States now, (Unconstitutional), racketeering, hostile take overs, inside trading, market manipulation, robberies of financial institutes, missing gold, missing money, ponzis totaling over a $zillion dollars, all while the ECONOMY IS DELIBERATEL BEING DESTROYED! Once we are broke, we won’t be able to afford to resist.
The Health Care bill is one of the last nails in the great American people's coffins. Once passed, they will be able to decide who lives and who dies, come to your home any time they want and vaccinate you, monitor everything you do, remove your firearms, IT WILL BE OVER. “No vaccine, no health care”..that will be first on their list…all while you pay in or get round up to some FEMA camp.
They will suck the life out of us and when they are done with the people, they will go after other nations, using our teens as slave armies. Once that’s over, they will go after one another. It’s all they know. Nukes will fly, billions will die. Im sorry, that where we are know.
As for the answer here, yes it’s unconstitutional. Just about everything going on now is unconstitutional.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 271513 United States 11/7/2009 6:01 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
We can't threaten them with being voted out of office during the next election because they are confident that memories are short and they'll have plenty of time to spin all of their treasonous activity to their advantage. But, instead of waiting until the next election to respond, we should begin immediately after the house vote tonight and start recall petitions against every single representative that votes in favor of this unconstitutional usurpation of power. We don't have the time to wait for the next election. We need to act now. There must be GLP members in every state who either know how to go about organizing a recall petition, or, assist those who do. If there is serious immediate action to yank those house members that vote in favor of this bill out of office, it may dissuade the senate from ever taking the bill up. This needs to be done quickly, in an organized fashion and against each and every representative that votes in the affirmative.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 550635 United States 11/7/2009 6:03 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
Hey Smilin Irish Eyes (and anyone else for that matter who has a loved one who is a doc),
And if you are a doc's wife and work in his office, exactly how do you feel about the fact that the Dems wanted to fix the proposed 20% cut in reimbursements scheduled to take effect in January, and the repubs fillibustered it so it the entire bill would become more unpalatable.
The Repubs said a big "fuck you" to your husband and family.
The so-called "doc fix" is a near-annual ritual in Congress aimed at preventing physicians from turning away Medicare patients because they are paid too little for the visits. A 1997 deficit-reduction law established federal spending targets that were linked to wage growth instead of inflation, but when medical costs continued to rise at a faster pace, the net effect was to require a huge yearly cut to doctor reimbursement rates. Cuts of 21% for next year and 40% the year after are currently scheduled at a time when many doctors are already struggling with existing Medicare reimbursement rates. The Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic would all go bankrupt if they only treated Medicare patients.
Fool User ID: 766303 Canada 11/7/2009 6:10 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
Only 23% of all voters Strongly Support the plan while nearly twice as man (44%) are Strongly Opposed.
--------------------------------------------
Monday, November 02, 2009 Email to a Friend
House Speaker Nancy Pelosi introduced the House version of health care reform legislation last week, but most voters are still opposed to the effort.
The latest Rasmussen Reports national telephone survey finds that 42% now favor the health care plan proposed by President Obama and congressional Democrats. That’s down from 45% a week ago but unchanged from two weeks ago.
Fifty-four percent (54%) now oppose the legislative effort, up three points since last week.
Seventy-three percent (73%) of liberals support the plan, but just 18% of conservatives agree.
Only 23% of all voters Strongly Support the plan while nearly twice as man (44%) are Strongly Opposed.
As has been the case for months, Democrats favor the plan while Republicans and voters not affiliated with either major party are opposed. The latest numbers show support from 69% of those in the president’s party. The plan is opposed by 80% of Republicans and a plurality (48%) of unaffiliated voters.
(Want a free daily e-mail update? If it's in the news, it's in our polls). Rasmussen Reports updates are also available on Twitter or Facebook.
Nineteen percent (19%) of all voters say passage of the legislation is Very Likely while 10% say it is Not at All Likely to pass. Most voters offer an assessment in between those extremes, with 34% saying the plan is Somewhat Likely to pass and 26% say Not Very Likely.
Perhaps the most stunning aspect of the numbers is how stable they have been through months of debate, town hall protests, presidential speeches, congressional wrangling and more. With the exception of bounces following nationally televised presidential pitches for the plan, support has stayed between 41% and 46% since July. Rasmussen Reports is tracking support for the plan on a weekly basis.
Fifty-five percent (55%) say passage of the plan would increase the cost of health care, and 52% say it would hurt the quality of care. Just 23% say it would reduce costs while 27% believe it would improve quality.
Polling released last week showed that health care reform remains the top priority for Democratic voters. However, it ranks fourth on a list of four among Republicans and unaffiliated voters. Overall, 38% of voters see deficit reduction as most important among the four priorities listed by the president earlier this year, while 23% cite health care reform as tops.
Polling on the health care topic by many firms has created some confusion. In particular, polls on the “public option” show a wide variety of results. A recent poll in The Washington Post found that 57% support a government-run health insurance company to compete with private insurers, but Rasmussen Reports polling shows that support is very soft. In fact, people are strongly opposed to a public option if they think it could lead employers to drop the existing coverage they provide employees. The fact that results are so subject to change based upon minor differences in question wording suggests that voters do not have firm opinions on the public option.
Virtually all polling shows a plurality or majority opposed to the current plan in Congress. The poll in The Washington Post found just 45% support for the congressional plan among all adults. Additionally, support for the current plan has remained stable suggesting that public opinion is firmly established at this time.
Other recent polling shows that 49% would rather see no health care legislation passed this year than see the current bill become law. Two-thirds (66%) say an increase in competition is more likely than increased government regulation to reduce the cost of health care. That’s one reason there is strong support for removing the exemption from anti-trust laws currently enjoyed by insurance companies.
While voters are skeptical of the plan working its way through Congress, 54% say major changes are needed in the health care system. Sixty-one percent (61%) say it’s important for Congress to pass some reform.
As Scott Rasmussen, president of Rasmussen Reports, wrote recently in the Wall Street Journal: “The most important fundamental is that 68% of American voters have health insurance coverage they rate good or excellent. … Most of these voters approach the health care reform debate fearing that they have more to lose than to gain.”
Only 31% believe Congress has a good understanding of the proposed health care reform.
See the posted article from the New England Journal. Unless you have a better study, and you don't, that ENDS the discussion about how docs feel.
JAMA that has had numerous conflict of interest suits and scandals? LOL!!! I needed that laugh, yet another outlet for liberal propaganda (yes, I read JAMA and yes, I can discern the political slant)
BTW, check out health insurance discount companies such as Synergy Health (honestly just trying to show other options)
No JAMA does not equal NEJM but is a correlative. No I'm not being an idiot I'm expanding the response that also shows other points of view.
and btw, of course rents etc are higher in NYC. That doesn't justify the incredible disparity in payments for procedure based on region.
And if you are a doc's wife and work in his office, exactly how do you feel about the fact that the Dems wanted to fix the proposed 20% cut in reimbursements scheduled to take effect in January, and the repubs fillibustered it so it the entire bill would become more unpalatable.
The Repubs said a big "fuck you" to your husband and family.
Were you aware of that???
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 464288
"of course rents are higher but doesn't justify the disparity"?????
What? So if the cost of doing business is 6 times (just a figure, not literal) higher in NYC than it is in another city the physician/hospital should not be reimbursed at the cost of living rate for that area? So, in other words it sucks to do business in high cost areas and you should be paid the same (or just a little bit more, not equal to the difference) as the provider who practices in a lower cost of living area? Really?
No, my husband isn't a doctor and I haven't had a chance to review the Dems proposal to fix physician reimbursement to see how they are spinning it.
Look, I agree that there needs to be reform for healthcare, premiums need to be decreased, co-insurance needs to be lowered; submission for providers need to be streamlined with better turn around time for reimbursement.
If you are truly aware of CMS EOMBs then you would know that CMS denies and recoups more than any private carrier without any recourse to CMS. With private carriers providers are afforded to appeal denials under DOI regulations. Let's not just get a new care (this healthcare bill) just because the current car (current healthcare system) needs the oil changed, new spark plugs or even a new manifold. Let's fix the areas that aren't working and leave this industry in the open market (that's my stance....not anti-Democrat/pro-Republican...just open market competition).
Have to go, honestly do hope you have a good night. How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. The Merchant of Venice. Act. v. Sc. 1. W. Shakespeare
Anonymous Coward User ID: 812695 United States 11/7/2009 6:18 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
2.) Refuse to convict anyone who is charged with not buying the health insurance.
If you disagree with the law itself, you DO have the right to declare the person not guilty regardless of the facts of the trial.
For instance, if you disagree with drug laws and the person is on trial for possession of pot, you can summarily dismiss the charges if you choose.
JURY RIGHTS
“The jury has the right to judge both the law as well as the fact in controversy.”
John Jay, 1st Chief Justice U.S. supreme Court, 1789
“The jury has the right to determine both the law and the facts.”
Samuel Chase, U.S. supreme Court Justice, 1796, Signer of the unanimous Declaration
“The jury has the power to bring a verdict in the teeth of both law and fact.”
Oliver Wendell Holmes, U.S. supreme Court Justice, 1902
“The law itself is on trial quite as much as the cause which is to be decided.”
Harlan F. Stone, 12th Chief Justice U.S. supreme Court, 1941
“The pages of history shine on instances of the jury’s exercise of its prerogative to disregard instructions of the judge...”
U.S. vs. Dougherty, 473 F 2nd 1113, 1139. (1972)
As a JUROR in a trial setting, when it comes to your individual vote of innocent or guilty, you are truly answerable to GOD ALMIGHTY. The First Amendment to the Constitution was born out of this great concept. However, judges of today refuse to inform JURORS of their RIGHTS.
The Minneapolis Star and Tribune in a news paper article appearing in its November 30, 1984 edition, entitled: “What Judges Don’t Tell Juries” stated:
“At the time of adoption of the Constitution, the jury’s role as a defense against political oppression was unquestioned in American jurisprudence. This nation survived until the 1850’s, when prosecutions under the Fugitive Slave Act were largely unsuccessful because
juries refused to convict.”
“Then judges began to erode the institution of free juries, leading to the absurd compromise that is the current state of the law. While our courts uniformly state juries have the power to return a verdict of not guilty whatever the facts, they routinely tell jurors the opposite.”
“Further, the courts will not allow the defendants or their counsel to inform the jurors of their true power. A lawyer who made . . . Hamilton’s argument would face professional discipline and charges of contempt of court.”
Anonymous Coward User ID: 805351 United States 11/7/2009 6:19 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
The so-called "doc fix" is a near-annual ritual in Congress aimed at preventing physicians from
turning away Medicare patients
because they are paid
too little for the visits.
A 1997 deficit-reduction law established federal spending targets that were linked to wage growth instead of inflation, but when medical costs continued to rise at a faster pace, the net effect was to require a huge yearly cut to doctor reimbursement rates. Cuts of 21% for next year and 40% the year after are currently scheduled at a time when many doctors are already struggling with existing Medicare reimbursement rates.
The Mayo Clinic and the Cleveland Clinic would all go bankrupt if they only treated Medicare patients.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 464288
Sorry but your post is truly an argument against this bill as it proves that a single payor system would bankrupt physician and hospitals if only reimbursed by gov't programs.
Not ignoring you but really have to log off. How far that little candle throws his beams! So shines a good deed in a naughty world. The Merchant of Venice. Act. v. Sc. 1. W. Shakespeare
Anonymous Coward User ID: 761335 Netherlands 11/7/2009 6:24 PM
Re: If They Force This Anti American Health Care Bill Down Our Throats What Can We Do To Fight Back?
I don't believe government should be involved in health care period. However, since they hell bent on interfering with our lives, then the bill that is signed by law should be overwhelmingly popular. 80 or 90% at least. This bill has so much opposition that is should be scrapped and another approach attempted. At stake is the sacred doctor patient relationship, including my grimy ballsack.
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