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An Overview of Freemasonry

 
Logos666
User ID: 858611
Germany
01/06/2010 01:01 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
I only looked at your first logical fallacy: imemdiately at the beginning.

Together with your previous inanities I have to conclude you are incapable of reasonable dialogue. Therefore I refuse to thoroughly read the rest (I had a quick glance and saw plenty more fallacies).

Again, just using a wikipedia link does not make an arguement
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 857923


The link merely mentions and explains the logical fallacy you committed, much like using a dictionary. Your very first reaction is again a straw man.

Failed.

Stay with the Feemasons if you like. I guess you belong there.


Thread: An Overview of Freemasonry
Logos666
User ID: 858611
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01/06/2010 01:16 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
You've got it !

The secret of Freemasonry is the same as it is with any organisation, religion, Empire or "builder". And that is: that the way to riches and power is Human sacrifice and ceaseless evil. The more evil you do, the more "good" you can accomplish.

That's why an Empire always have to be at war, or in some other way brutalising somebody to stay on top; and why they always fall when their people get rich satisfied and too nice to constantly support war and attrocity.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 638460


It is good that this apologist admitted

that a uniform worse than any SS-uniform

the uniform of most of the evil commited by humankind

the uniform of those people who financed the Nazis in he first place

the uniform of the respectable society of murderers and paid thugs

namely the uniform of suits and ties or tuxedos

is in fact the accepted standard among Freemasans.

You might shudder at the idea of wearing a dead-head-SS uniform at a Masonic ritual. But if you actually follow history and where the money came from for all the murders of the last 300-400 years, you will find that the suit and tie is far, far worse than a dead-head-SS-uniform because all these atrocities against humanity were committed and enabled by the very same standard of unquestioning militaristic obedience to a hierarchy commanding finances which this very suit and tie symbolizes.

Go away.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Those Croatians had not even patriotism as an excuse for their reckless murders. The necktie: a symbol for unquestioning readiness to murder for many at the neglect of all moral standards.

Standard among Freemasons ! Have fun there.
Logos666
User ID: 858611
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01/06/2010 01:19 PM
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It is good that this apologist admitted
 Quoting: Logos666 858611


By that I didn't mean you, Anonymous Coward 638460, of course, but this other half-educated guy who in the absence of logical training thinks he can find logical mistakes in a major of mathematical logic who studied Gödel. bwaha
BeukendaalMason
User ID: 857923
United States
01/06/2010 01:32 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
Drat, looks like I forgot to put my name in two of the above replies (857923).

"Thirdly"

You state near the beginning of your post that you "have no prejudices against Freemasonry on religious or irrational grounds" but state here a position based solely on religious grounds.
Quoting: BeukendaalMason 857923

That's complete poppycock.

Even an atheist would agree that solemn vows in the name of god is a regression into the pre-rational.

If your memory would function well, you would recognize that I mentioned Jesus as an example for why it is internally inconsistent for FMs to claim that membership is open to Christians and still demand vows. This argument has nothing to do with an acceptance of religious position as a christian. Even an atheist or a shaman from the jungle would be able to point out this inconsistency without being a christian. And this is true even though I do in fact have very high regard for Yeshua, but my argument does not depend on this high regard.

Anyone with a bit of education would have immediately gotten that the first time around.

The one passage you use for your objection has a different translation: Matthew 5:33 "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shall nor forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:". The whole lesson to be learned from the passage is not to take oaths, but only to take oaths before the Lord alone and that your oaths must be truthful "Let your communication be Yea, yea; Nea, nea".
Quoting: BeukendaalMason 857923

You conveniently cut off after 33, skipped 34-36 and then resumed at 37, half of which you cut off again for convenience.

In almost all the translation he clearly prohibits and oaths. You can click through all the english versions in the drop down

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

and if you can find one or two which by lots of hairsplitting you can interpret that way, I don't give a damn, since that's why I also included the Luther translation which has in many ways proven to be exemplary:

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

You might say "this is not newest standard". So ? I look at the "Einheitsübersetzung" which certainly is closer to that, and it clearly says:

"33 Ihr habt gehört, dass zu den Alten gesagt worden ist: Du sollst keinen Meineid schwören, und: Du sollst halten, was du dem Herrn geschworen hast.
34 Ich aber sage euch: Schwört überhaupt nicht, weder beim Himmel, denn er ist Gottes Thron,
35 noch bei der Erde, denn sie ist der Schemel für seine Füße, noch bei Jerusalem, denn es ist die Stadt des großen Königs.
36 Auch bei deinem Haupt sollst du nicht schwören; denn du kannst kein einziges Haar weiß oder schwarz machen.
37 Euer Ja sei ein Ja, euer Nein ein Nein; alles andere stammt vom Bösen."

Nice try. Don't try again. Please.

The old testament has no bearing on the issue of whether Jesus prohibited vows. That old piece of writing contains injunctions to kill babies for the Lord, go figure !
 Quoting: Logos666 857945


No, it shows that you were inconsistent in your insistance that you "have no prejudices against Freemasonry on religious or irrational grounds" because you specifically use a religious (and numerous illogical) grounds. And you happen to know what all Atheists, Christians and Shamans believe, only in your hybris could you think others would believe that.

Lets get into Jesus' statement in Matthew 5:33-37 (I skipped 34-36 as they were exactly the same). Your interpretation goes as:

[link to www.biblegateway.com]
or
[link to www.biblegateway.com]

And you hang your belief upon the statement "But I tell you, Do not swear at all:" which would make one think he states that "Do not swear at all." but you will notice that it ends with a colon (:) and not a period (.) meaning that the thought continues on. To put it in terms you might understand it comes down to this:

"Again, you have heard that it was said to the people long ago 'Do not break your oaths you made to the Lord'. But I tell you, do not swear at all either by heavan, for it is God's throne. Do not swear at all by Jerusalem, for it is the city of the Great King. And do not swear by your head, for you cannot make even one hair white or black. Simply let your 'Yes' be 'Yes,' and your 'No,' 'No'; anything beyond this comes from the evil one." Which shows that Jesus was not against vows before God, but vows before other things (Idolotry).

I say that you have misinterpreted both (as have other Christians) because you seem to not notice the colon or wish it to believe that your interpretation is correct. You also fail to realise that Jesus also taught from the Old Testament (hence its inclusion in Christian Bibles) and affirmed most of what was included in them, with the addition of His New Law, the Law of Love.

Give me the names of a couple female grand masters.

Not to see the inconsistencies I mentioned is stupidity, not because it would be my opinion. It is obvious.
 Quoting: Logos666 857945


Mrs Elizabeth Boswell-Reid of the Honourable Fraternity of Freemasons and her daughter Mrs Seton Challen. Now if their Masonic organization was termed as "recognized" I am not too sure, but there are two. There have also been other women who have been members through out the years and eventually the organizations Order of the Eastern Star, Amaranth, and Daughter of the Nile were created either for both men and women or women only.

"seem" is in your eyes. I know what Jesus has been reported to say about vows, his stand towards "in-crowds" versus outsiders governed by ritual. Jiddu Krishnamurti is a more recent example and was very explicit about this.

Your attempts at making a rather objective fact (Jiddu Krishnamurti for instancee is a contemporary for many who are still alive) into a subjective opinion and imposition from my side is dishonest to an extreme.

Thanks for another example of Freemasonic ethical standards in discourse, but no thanks !

You know it is one thing for ordinary people to fail my standards, and I do not consider myself a more important person over that. I am not generally better than people who do not hold water according to my standards.

But if an organization constantly fails at those standards while at the same time claiming that their organization's purpose is the upholding of these very same standards (by their own professed principles) then it becomes despicable and really, really sad.
 Quoting: Logos666 857945


And yet Jesus had His own "in-crowd" (His disciples). You still have not proven that either would reject Freemasonry but only make the assertion that I believe they would. All I stated is that your statement that "There are reasons why Jesus and Jiddu Krishnamurti rejected all such clubs" is only based upon your beliefs and not upon the actual confirmation of either. It shows that you are being dishonest in your assertion that you know what either believe.

I care not that I or Freemasonry "fail your standards" as they are yours and have been shown to be nothing but hybris, suppositions and illogical assertions. They are your "standards" and have no maening to others, except by your own assertions.
BeukendaalMason
User ID: 857923
United States
01/06/2010 02:01 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
If you think that all is an open book in Freemasonry, count yourself as ignorant, read more of Manly P. Hall and Albert Pike.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Don't be such a naive Schmuck, which is of course what they want you to be.
 Quoting: Logos666 858491


And you think that both books are all of the knowledge of Freemasonry? Let us look at each.

Manly P. Hall wrote his book "Secret Teachings of All Ages" in 1928, 26 years before he join the Freemasons which would mean that the book was writen by someone who was not a Mason. And contains information based upon Hall's beliefs and suppositions and not his actual experience.

Then there is Albert Pike's book "Morals and Dogma" which he was "Author and Compiler; since he has extracted quite half its contents from the works of the best writers and most philosophic or eloquent thinkers." It also states quite clearly in the Preface that: "The teachings of these Readings are not sacramental, so far as they go beyond the realm of Morality into those of other domains of Thought and Truth. The Ancient and Accepted Scottish Rite uses the word 'Dogma' in its true sense, of doctrine, or teaching; and is not dogmatic in the odious sense of that term. Every one is entirely free to reject and dissent from whatsoever herein may seem to him to be untrue or unsound." Showing that the book is a compilation of others thoughts and not doctrine or actual representation of the degrees. "Morals and Dogma" also only represents the thoughts upon the Southern US Scottish Rite jurisdiction and not the Northern nor any other through out the world.

If you think those two books give you further insight into Freemasonry then those who are actual members then you again show only hybris and disinformation.

I see you intentionally misquoted me:

Freemasonry ...
unlike what you seem to hope it is, it is not "ruled by severe stupidity which unwittingly promotes the destruction of the planet by promoting the cause of detruction: patriarchy, that is men wanting wealth or status so that they can have sex."
Quoting: BeukendaalMason 857923

What I did in fact say is this:

Therefore, either Freemasonry as a group phenomenon is honest, then it is an anachronistic men's club which is ruled by severe stupidity which unwittingly promotes the destruction of the planet by promoting the cause of detruction: patriarchy, that is men wanting wealth or status so that they can have sex.

Otherwise it is inherently dishonest.

In both cases, they are not what they profess to be
Quoting: Logos666 848368

You are a liar.

Typical.
 Quoting: Logos666 858491


No, I quoted your statement. You are now implying that there are only two possible results, either "inherently dishonest" or "a group phenomenon is honest, then it is an anachronistic men's club which is ruled by severe stupidity which unwittingly promotes the destruction of the planet by promoting the cause of detruction: patriarchy, that is men wanting wealth or status so that they can have sex." but in fact it is neither but an honest organization that is not "an anachronistic men's club...". Just because you are unable to understand that there is more than two results does not mean that I am lieing.
Logos666
User ID: 858611
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01/06/2010 04:41 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
How right I was:

From now on I expect only inane repetition.
 Quoting: Logos666 858491


You have do grow up and learn that someone who insists on engaging in pseudo-arguments has thereby permanently excluded himself from any reasonable diaolgue.

I do not participate in such inanities since it supports the unvirtue which you intentionally practice. You are not stupid enough not to recognize your fake argumentation as fake. You do it anyway in order to confuse the wits of those not trained in stringent, logical argumentation.

This is traditionally called "the confuser", "diabolos", "the devil".

This is the last time I will even notice that you wrote (of course immediately recognizing a further flood of fallacies in what you write).

_______________________


For those capable of logical thinking, here's another pre-rational element of faschism in Freemasonry:

Freemasonry expects the participant to believe in an Omniscient God (the ultimate faschist, the "architect" as they say), not to do so excludes you from Freemasonry. At the same time, of course they claim to uphold reason and enlightened principles. The problem, however, is that reason clearly shows there can be no possessor of omniscience (**).

So again, Feemasonry is internally contradictory, inconsistent, and so their members must be either stupid (not to see it) or liars (and keep on making false claims).

As to (**) here goes:

Consider the sentence

(alpha) Omega considers (alpha) as not true.

Freemasonry makes the following assumption:

(O) Omega is omniscient (whatever Omega is, God or architect or Buddha or what have you)

Now consider the following assumption:

(T) (alpha) is true.

Under (T), of course, it cogently follows that Omega considers (alpha) as not true (because that's what (alpha) says) - but under (T) Omega (whatever Omega is) then considers something which is true as not being true - and hence contradicts (O) !

____________

What do we know thus far ?

We know that under the assumption (O) (which the FMs make) (T) must be false, that is:

(C) From the belief in omniscience follows that (alpha) is not true !

Notice: the assumption (T) has been eliminated, so we know (C) regardless of (T) and regardless of whether (alpha) is true or not or anything fuzzy. It follows cogently merely on the grounds of the assumption (O) !

So anyone who believes in a possessor of omniscience must be mad or accept (alpha) as untrue.

Hence he must accept that it is untrue that Omega considers (alpha) as untrue. But if Omega is omniscient, he must consider anything untrue as untrue.

So again we have a contradiction. Based on what assumption ? Only (O), the assumption of a possessor of omniscience !

In short: the assumption of a possessor of omniscience leads to self-contradiction regardless of any other assumptions about the sentences or meanings involved !

No one in possession of his right mind can hence believe in a possessor of omniscience, but this is precisely what Freemasons expect of their members.


Literature:

[link to www.amazon.com]

__________________________



Notice that true mystics (even christians - see the video below) no longer hold any such views regarding the ultimate truth (neither does Manly P. Hall whose honor indeed it is that he did not derive his knowldege from the Freemasons and hence was independent of them) - which is why the Buddha prefered to speak of emptiness (empty of anything the mind can imagine, any substance) and explicitly denied omniscience.

Note the quotation of Meister Eckhart at the end:




Any opinion about the ultimate is megalomanic hybris, and to make such opinions into a condition for membership -like Freemasonry does - is a faschist, pre-rational prescription for madness.

Avoid.
Logos666
User ID: 858611
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01/06/2010 04:47 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
For the others:

I am now convinced that this mason is engaging in a flood of rabulistics expecting that logically untrained listeners accept that if someone spits out a deluge of pseudo-arguments, something about it must be true.

Please see for yourself and go back to my original post. I maintain that none of the arguments have been properly addressed, let alone refuted, or even thoroughly read by that man.

This his strategy will likely continue which is why I no longer support it by reacting.

Please use your analytical faculties and see for yourself:

Thread: An Overview of Freemasonry

His sole purpose, IMO, is to push these arguments out of sight through a deluge of empty argumentation (as opposed to stringent arguments).

Good night for now.
_____________________


Logos666
User ID: 858611
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01/06/2010 05:00 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
"You can't control us anymore"
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 857966
Canada
01/06/2010 05:48 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
I went to a masonic funeral service the other day. Interesting symbolism in their service.
Anonymous Coward
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01/11/2010 11:22 AM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry

A quick Overview of Freemasonry for Those Who Would Like To Know A Little More About Us.

If there is one thing most people are sure they know, it's that Masons are never supposed to talk about Masonry.

Not true. Oh, there are some secrets - but there's nothing in them that would interest anyone except a Mason. Almost all of the "secrets" deal with ways of recognizing each other.
But as far as Freemasonry, what it does, what it teaches, how it's organized, where it came from, what goes on in a Lodge meeting - that's open for discussion. Given a chance, we'll probably tell you more than you really wanted to know. We're excited about the Fraternity, we get a lot out of it, and we really want to share that with others.
Then why hasn't anyone ever asked me to join? People have asked me to join Rotary, Lions, and other clubs.

It's no reflection on you. There is a rule in Masonry that a person must seek admission himself. We aren't allowed to go out and twist arms.
There is a reason for that. A person needs to come to Masonry because he really wants to, not because he's been talked into it. Masonry is a real commitment. If you are a Mason and you need help, every Mason in the world MUST help you, if he possibly can. By the same token, you must be willing to help any Mason who needs it. And then there is another reason - a person has to be ready for Masonry. Masonry isn't a civic club, although we do a lot of civic projects. It is a Fraternity. We're dedicated to the growth and development of our members as human beings. A person has to be ready to grow, has to suspect that there is something more to life, and wants to know what that is, before he is really ready to become a Mason.
What goes on in a Masonic Meeting?

There are two types of meeting agenda. The first is like the business meeting of any other organization. It takes us just a bit longer to call the meeting to order, because we use a longer opening ceremony or ritual than most civic clubs do. But, it reminds us of some of the most important lessons in Masonry.
Then, when the lodge is "open", we hear the reading of the minutes, vote to pay bills, take care of old and new business, and plan projects, just like everyone else. The other type of meeting is one in which new members are received. This is done with a beautiful ritual, centuries old, which is designed to teach some important lessons and to start the person thinking about his own nature as a spiritual being.
What's the initiation like?

The Ceremonies of Masonic Initiation are meaningful and historic. Nothing humorous or embarrassing is permitted. In fact, it is a very serious Masonic offense to allow anything to happen during an initiation which is undignified or "funny".
I've heard that Masonry is a religion. Is it? Can a man be a Mason and a Christian at the same time?

Masonry acknowledges the existence of God. No atheist can become a Mason. Prayer is an important part of the Masonic ritual. Masonic vows are taken in the name of God, but Masonry never tries to tell a person how he should think about God, or how he should worship God, or why he should believe. We offer no plan of salvation. We teach that man should live a good life, not because that alone will earn him entrance into heaven, but because anything else is destructive, both to himself and to those around him. It is good to be good. As to whether a man can be a Mason and a Christian, the best answer is that most us are. There are many Free Masons who belong to other faiths, including Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, but the majority in America are Christian. And we number many, many ministers of many different denominations. As Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, an active Freemason himself, once remarked: "Masonry encourages men to be good and that can never conflict with Christianity".
Are there any churches or religions whose members you won't accept as Masons?

No. A man's belief is his own business, and Masonry has no right to approve or disapprove of his belief.
What about those "Secret Vows" I hear so much about?

The exact words of the vows are secret. That's one of the ways we recognize each other. The contents of the vows are not. In less formal language than we use in the Ritual, a Mason promises: "to treat women with deference and respect, to help a Brother when he asks for and needs help, to remember that people are entitled to dignity and respect and not to treat them as if they were things, to follow the directions of the Grand Lodge in things Masonic, and if he disagrees, to use the proper channels to express that disagreement and seek resolution, to respect the traditions of the Fraternity, and to keep secret the few things that are secret".
Why don't you let women join?

We're a Fraternity, a Brotherhood. The essence of a fraternity is that it is for men, just as the essence of a sorority is that it is for women. That's the primary reason. Recent developments in psychology and sociology have discovered another reason. There is a new thing called "male bonding." That's the new technical way of saying something that has been known for thousands of years. It's important for men to have a few things they do by themselves, just as it is for women to have the same thing.
But that doesn't mean that there is no place for women in Masonry. In fact, there are several Masonic organizations for both women and men. The order of the Eastern Star, with one of the most beautiful rituals anywhere, is one. So are the White Shrine of Jerusalem, the Order of Amaranth, the Social Order of Beauseant, and several others.
Just what is a "Lodge?" What does it look like? Who runs it?

A lodge is both a meeting place for Masons and the Masons who meet there. You could actually say "The Lodge is a meeting at the Lodge." It's a Middle English word. When the great cathedrals of the Middle Ages were being built, the masons had special, temporary buildings built against the side of the cathedral in which they met, received their pay, planned the work on the cathedral and socialized after work. This building was called a lodge. The term has simply remained down through the ages.
As to the officers, the leader of the Lodge, the President is the "Worshipful Master". That title doesn't mean we worship him, although some people have thought that is what it means. The titles we use come from Middle English, about the time of Chaucer. Just as mayors in England and Canada are addressed as "Your Worship", the Master of the Lodge is called "Worshipful Master", meaning "Greatly Respected." The First Vice President is the Senior Warden. The second Vice President is the Junior Warden. We have a Secretary and a Treasurer, just like any other organization. Assisting the Master are the Senior and Junior Deacons. They carry messages and help with the ritual work. The Senior and Junior Stewards help guide the new candidates in the initiation and also traditionally set out refreshments. Finally, the Tiler sits at the door to make sure that the Lodge is not interrupted and to help visitors get into the Lodge Room.
If that is the Lodge, what is the "Grand Lodge?"

The Grand Lodge is the State Organization of Masons. The local Lodges are members of the Grand Lodge. The Grand Master is the same as the State President.
Just what do Masons do?

Charity is the most visible Masonic activity. Each year Masons give many millions of dollars to charity. Some are large projects, some are small. Among the hundreds of local projects, we sponsor large programs such as Children in Crisis, and Blindness Prevention programs, testing thousands of school children and senior citizens for vision problems. We have strong commitments to public education. Many Lodges have programs in which they recognize outstanding students. We have essay contests, awards for outstanding teachers and even programs to help teachers get supplies. The Fraternity gives hundreds of college scholarships to students each year. Nationally, throughout the United States, the Masons give an average of $1,500.000.00 (that is one and a half million) EVERY DAY to charitable causes, most of which are not Masonic. A fact never publicized and thus hardly known.
All those things are external, and they are important. But the real things the Masons do are far more difficult to describe. In essence, we try to build ourselves into better men, better fathers, better husbands and better citizens. We strive for self development and self improvement. We try to learn more about what it means to be human and what it takes to become better men.
How does a man become a Mason?

As we said earlier, no one will ever twist your arm. If you decide you want more information, we'll be happy to provide it through the Grand Lodge in your jurisdiction. If you want to join our Fraternity it works this way: "Ask any Mason for a petition (to join). Fill it out and return it to him. He'll take it to his Lodge and turn it in. A committee (of about three) will be appointed to talk with you and with people you may list. Its purpose is to ascertain that you are a man of good character and that you believe in God. Atheism and Freemasonry are not compatible. The committee will report its recommendation back to the Lodge. The Lodge will vote. If your petition is accepted, the Secretary will contact you about a date for the first of three degrees. There is some study and a bit of memory work required with which your Lodge Brothers will always help you. After the Third Degree you will be a full-fledged Master Mason and will have joined the oldest global brotherhood in the world!

[link to www.masonic-network.com]

/quote]

We all know that this is a crock, and the usual entry level type of basic knowledge of Masonry. Join, and then find out what's next. That's the fun part they don't tell you! Yeah, it's for men only, except when they want to use women for their sex rituals and magic. They realise, they must have the goddess energy for any real creative power to work, but they want to suppress her at the same time so they can only use it when it is convenient for them to manipulate the matrix through magic. Gig's over dudes, the goddesses have broken out the mind control and are here to restore some real balance.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 843847
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01/11/2010 11:24 AM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
We all know that this is a crock, and the usual entry level type of basic knowledge of Masonry. Join, and then find out what's next. That's the fun part they don't tell you! Yeah, it's for men only, except when they want to use women for their sex rituals and magic. They realise, they must have the goddess energy for any real creative power to work, but they want to suppress her at the same time so they can only use it when it is convenient for them to manipulate the matrix through magic. Gig's over dudes, the goddesses have broken out the mind control and are here to restore some real balance.










A quick Overview of Freemasonry for Those Who Would Like To Know A Little More About Us.

If there is one thing most people are sure they know, it's that Masons are never supposed to talk about Masonry.

Not true. Oh, there are some secrets - but there's nothing in them that would interest anyone except a Mason. Almost all of the "secrets" deal with ways of recognizing each other.
But as far as Freemasonry, what it does, what it teaches, how it's organized, where it came from, what goes on in a Lodge meeting - that's open for discussion. Given a chance, we'll probably tell you more than you really wanted to know. We're excited about the Fraternity, we get a lot out of it, and we really want to share that with others.
Then why hasn't anyone ever asked me to join? People have asked me to join Rotary, Lions, and other clubs.

It's no reflection on you. There is a rule in Masonry that a person must seek admission himself. We aren't allowed to go out and twist arms.
There is a reason for that. A person needs to come to Masonry because he really wants to, not because he's been talked into it. Masonry is a real commitment. If you are a Mason and you need help, every Mason in the world MUST help you, if he possibly can. By the same token, you must be willing to help any Mason who needs it. And then there is another reason - a person has to be ready for Masonry. Masonry isn't a civic club, although we do a lot of civic projects. It is a Fraternity. We're dedicated to the growth and development of our members as human beings. A person has to be ready to grow, has to suspect that there is something more to life, and wants to know what that is, before he is really ready to become a Mason.
What goes on in a Masonic Meeting?

There are two types of meeting agenda. The first is like the business meeting of any other organization. It takes us just a bit longer to call the meeting to order, because we use a longer opening ceremony or ritual than most civic clubs do. But, it reminds us of some of the most important lessons in Masonry.
Then, when the lodge is "open", we hear the reading of the minutes, vote to pay bills, take care of old and new business, and plan projects, just like everyone else. The other type of meeting is one in which new members are received. This is done with a beautiful ritual, centuries old, which is designed to teach some important lessons and to start the person thinking about his own nature as a spiritual being.
What's the initiation like?

The Ceremonies of Masonic Initiation are meaningful and historic. Nothing humorous or embarrassing is permitted. In fact, it is a very serious Masonic offense to allow anything to happen during an initiation which is undignified or "funny".
I've heard that Masonry is a religion. Is it? Can a man be a Mason and a Christian at the same time?

Masonry acknowledges the existence of God. No atheist can become a Mason. Prayer is an important part of the Masonic ritual. Masonic vows are taken in the name of God, but Masonry never tries to tell a person how he should think about God, or how he should worship God, or why he should believe. We offer no plan of salvation. We teach that man should live a good life, not because that alone will earn him entrance into heaven, but because anything else is destructive, both to himself and to those around him. It is good to be good. As to whether a man can be a Mason and a Christian, the best answer is that most us are. There are many Free Masons who belong to other faiths, including Judaism, Islam, Hinduism and Buddhism, but the majority in America are Christian. And we number many, many ministers of many different denominations. As Dr. Norman Vincent Peale, an active Freemason himself, once remarked: "Masonry encourages men to be good and that can never conflict with Christianity".
Are there any churches or religions whose members you won't accept as Masons?

No. A man's belief is his own business, and Masonry has no right to approve or disapprove of his belief.
What about those "Secret Vows" I hear so much about?

The exact words of the vows are secret. That's one of the ways we recognize each other. The contents of the vows are not. In less formal language than we use in the Ritual, a Mason promises: "to treat women with deference and respect, to help a Brother when he asks for and needs help, to remember that people are entitled to dignity and respect and not to treat them as if they were things, to follow the directions of the Grand Lodge in things Masonic, and if he disagrees, to use the proper channels to express that disagreement and seek resolution, to respect the traditions of the Fraternity, and to keep secret the few things that are secret".
Why don't you let women join?

We're a Fraternity, a Brotherhood. The essence of a fraternity is that it is for men, just as the essence of a sorority is that it is for women. That's the primary reason. Recent developments in psychology and sociology have discovered another reason. There is a new thing called "male bonding." That's the new technical way of saying something that has been known for thousands of years. It's important for men to have a few things they do by themselves, just as it is for women to have the same thing.
But that doesn't mean that there is no place for women in Masonry. In fact, there are several Masonic organizations for both women and men. The order of the Eastern Star, with one of the most beautiful rituals anywhere, is one. So are the White Shrine of Jerusalem, the Order of Amaranth, the Social Order of Beauseant, and several others.
Just what is a "Lodge?" What does it look like? Who runs it?

A lodge is both a meeting place for Masons and the Masons who meet there. You could actually say "The Lodge is a meeting at the Lodge." It's a Middle English word. When the great cathedrals of the Middle Ages were being built, the masons had special, temporary buildings built against the side of the cathedral in which they met, received their pay, planned the work on the cathedral and socialized after work. This building was called a lodge. The term has simply remained down through the ages.
As to the officers, the leader of the Lodge, the President is the "Worshipful Master". That title doesn't mean we worship him, although some people have thought that is what it means. The titles we use come from Middle English, about the time of Chaucer. Just as mayors in England and Canada are addressed as "Your Worship", the Master of the Lodge is called "Worshipful Master", meaning "Greatly Respected." The First Vice President is the Senior Warden. The second Vice President is the Junior Warden. We have a Secretary and a Treasurer, just like any other organization. Assisting the Master are the Senior and Junior Deacons. They carry messages and help with the ritual work. The Senior and Junior Stewards help guide the new candidates in the initiation and also traditionally set out refreshments. Finally, the Tiler sits at the door to make sure that the Lodge is not interrupted and to help visitors get into the Lodge Room.
If that is the Lodge, what is the "Grand Lodge?"

The Grand Lodge is the State Organization of Masons. The local Lodges are members of the Grand Lodge. The Grand Master is the same as the State President.
Just what do Masons do?

Charity is the most visible Masonic activity. Each year Masons give many millions of dollars to charity. Some are large projects, some are small. Among the hundreds of local projects, we sponsor large programs such as Children in Crisis, and Blindness Prevention programs, testing thousands of school children and senior citizens for vision problems. We have strong commitments to public education. Many Lodges have programs in which they recognize outstanding students. We have essay contests, awards for outstanding teachers and even programs to help teachers get supplies. The Fraternity gives hundreds of college scholarships to students each year. Nationally, throughout the United States, the Masons give an average of $1,500.000.00 (that is one and a half million) EVERY DAY to charitable causes, most of which are not Masonic. A fact never publicized and thus hardly known.
All those things are external, and they are important. But the real things the Masons do are far more difficult to describe. In essence, we try to build ourselves into better men, better fathers, better husbands and better citizens. We strive for self development and self improvement. We try to learn more about what it means to be human and what it takes to become better men.
How does a man become a Mason?

As we said earlier, no one will ever twist your arm. If you decide you want more information, we'll be happy to provide it through the Grand Lodge in your jurisdiction. If you want to join our Fraternity it works this way: "Ask any Mason for a petition (to join). Fill it out and return it to him. He'll take it to his Lodge and turn it in. A committee (of about three) will be appointed to talk with you and with people you may list. Its purpose is to ascertain that you are a man of good character and that you believe in God. Atheism and Freemasonry are not compatible. The committee will report its recommendation back to the Lodge. The Lodge will vote. If your petition is accepted, the Secretary will contact you about a date for the first of three degrees. There is some study and a bit of memory work required with which your Lodge Brothers will always help you. After the Third Degree you will be a full-fledged Master Mason and will have joined the oldest global brotherhood in the world!

[link to www.masonic-network.com]

/quote]

We all know that this is a crock, and the usual entry level type of basic knowledge of Masonry. Join, and then find out what's next. That's the fun part they don't tell you! Yeah, it's for men only, except when they want to use women for their sex rituals and magic. They realise, they must have the goddess energy for any real creative power to work, but they want to suppress her at the same time so they can only use it when it is convenient for them to manipulate the matrix through magic. Gig's over dudes, the goddesses have broken out the mind control and are here to restore some real balance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 843847
Logos666
User ID: 862428
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01/11/2010 05:05 PM
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Re: An Overview of Freemasonry
I have no opinion on the content of the quote:

We all know that this is a crock, and the usual entry level type of basic knowledge of Masonry. Join, and then find out what's next. That's the fun part they don't tell you! Yeah, it's for men only, except when they want to use women for their sex rituals and magic. They realise, they must have the goddess energy for any real creative power to work, but they want to suppress her at the same time so they can only use it when it is convenient for them to manipulate the matrix through magic. Gig's over dudes, the goddesses have broken out the mind control and are here to restore some real balance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 843847


It appears you had some trouble separating what you want to say from what you want to quote and either included both in or excluded both from the quote.

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Thread: An Overview of Freemasonry
Logos666
User ID: 870038
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01/20/2010 04:04 PM
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The one passage you use for your objection has a different translation: Matthew 5:33 "Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shall nor forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:". The whole lesson to be learned from the passage is not to take oaths, but only to take oaths before the Lord alone and that your oaths must be truthful "Let your communication be Yea, yea; Nea, nea". [BeukendaalMason 857923]

You conveniently cut off after 33, skipped 34-36 and then resumed at 37, half of which you cut off again for convenience.

In almost all the translation he clearly prohibits and oaths. You can click through all the english versions in the drop down

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

and if you can find one or two which by lots of hairsplitting you can interpret that way, I don't give a damn, since that's why I also included the Luther translation which has in many ways proven to be exemplary:

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

You might say "this is not newest standard". So ? I look at the "Einheitsübersetzung" which certainly is closer to that, and it clearly says:

"33 Ihr habt gehört, dass zu den Alten gesagt worden ist: Du sollst keinen Meineid schwören, und: Du sollst halten, was du dem Herrn geschworen hast.
34 Ich aber sage euch: Schwört überhaupt nicht, weder beim Himmel, denn er ist Gottes Thron,
35 noch bei der Erde, denn sie ist der Schemel für seine Füße, noch bei Jerusalem, denn es ist die Stadt des großen Königs.
36 Auch bei deinem Haupt sollst du nicht schwören; denn du kannst kein einziges Haar weiß oder schwarz machen.
37 Euer Ja sei ein Ja, euer Nein ein Nein; alles andere stammt vom Bösen."


Nice try. Don't try again. Please.


The old testament has no bearing on the issue of whether Jesus prohibited vows. That old piece of writing contains injunctions to kill babies for the Lord, go figure !
 Quoting: Logos666 857945


Besides that, I just ran across this:

[link to www.biblegateway.com]

with Greek original:

[link to www.newadvent.org]

Jakob ("James") would have likely remembered his brother's teaching well in this regard.





GLP