Its called resurfacing the head...not milling...the machine shop 1st magnaflux the head to ckeck for cracks and then put the head on a big belt sander ...not a mill...to get the surface flat,,,also you need to check the block with a straight edge and a feeler guage...if you can fit an .0015 feeler guage in you may have issues with the block
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 623805
The shop I use, they pressure test the heads on a pressure table, no magnafluxing. If you want to throw your head on a belt sander(more or less) have at it, mine get milled.
ºCRAPº User ID: 728223 United States 11/13/2009 9:30 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
I checked with a carpenters square and it appears unwarped.
I'm going to use Red High Temp RTV for the lower intake and plenum along with the gaskets. Also use it on the exhaust gaskets I'm also replacing.
Is there any type of RTV that can be used in a very thin layer along with the Head Gasket? Those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither and lose both.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 680551 United States 11/13/2009 9:33 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Make sure your gasket is not backward. It's a common mistake and can make the vehicle run hot. Don't cut on a Felpro gasket, they are made to exact specifications. Match it up to the old one, you may have to take it back to the parts house. Those guys sell parts 'cause they can't work on cars...
Quoting: BRIEF AND TO THE POINT
Yup, NEVER cut a head gasket of any kind unless you want to risk doing the job over again. Previous poster is right, check gasket to make sure it isn't upside down (Fel-Pro gaskets usually put either the striped side toward the block or the head, can't remember) and torque to manufacturer's specs. Hope you get it running again.
ºCRAPº User ID: 728223 United States 11/13/2009 9:35 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Since I mentioned it before and another person or two mentioned it...and to answer a question....a GOOD straigtedge such as a carpenters square etc. will work and I'm guessing but if there is more than 2 or 3 thousands warpage you could have problems. Shop manuals usually list the limits. Check from different directions. Even at minimums I do a light sanding of the surface for better bonding and sealing for the new gasket. And even at 50 thousand miles you could have warpage from uneven torqueing or uneven heat. Many times the head will be ok but the check is necessary. On an older engine that has a suspected head gasket leak I would always try a professional brand of head gasket/block sealer in the cooling system. Can't hurt and might even fix the problem. Couple that with just a head retorque also sometimes is quick and dirty. :-)
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 815037
Ouch, I wouldn't do ANY sanding. Especially if the block is cast iron and the heads are aluminum like mine are.
The heat expansion rates are different for iron and aluminum and even a small scrartch from sanding can start to tear the gasket surface over time. Teflon coated gaskets may help that issue but your walking a dangerous line by sanding the heads. As so I was told by a tech.
Only things I used to clean the heads gasket areas are engine degreaser with 000 steel wool. 000 steel wool won't even scratch glass and can be used to clean glass surfaces, so is fine for aluminum with a lubricant. Then I used carb cleaner to remove the residue.
My heads are very very clean right now. It's a work of art. Those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither and lose both.
ºCRAPº User ID: 728223 United States 11/13/2009 9:44 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Make sure your gasket is not backward. It's a common mistake and can make the vehicle run hot. Don't cut on a Felpro gasket, they are made to exact specifications. Match it up to the old one, you may have to take it back to the parts house. Those guys sell parts 'cause they can't work on cars...
Yup, NEVER cut a head gasket of any kind unless you want to risk doing the job over again. Previous poster is right, check gasket to make sure it isn't upside down (Fel-Pro gaskets usually put either the striped side toward the block or the head, can't remember) and torque to manufacturer's specs. Hope you get it running again.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 680551
thanks, yeah she will run again. I'm very confident about the job so far. everything was labeled, documented the order of removal, bolts pegged up and marked for exact placements. torque wrench ready with updated specs, new head and LIM bolts coated with threadlock. Mating surfaces are clean and smooth as a mirror, no knicks or scratches. Just before reassembly, I'm going to coat any carbon with seafoam. So it gets blown out on start up. I seafoamed the engine through the plenum vacuum system and it cleaned everything very well up to the valves. Now I'm going to get to clean the heads and exhaust valves better as well.
I'm not rushing anything, taking my time to be sure everything is done right and well.
Great thing about replacing the head gaskets yourself is you get to clean the engine very well as a tech won't take that much time to do so and if he does, you are paying for it big time.
Shes gonna run sooo smooth!
Thanks everyone for your help answering my question. Those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither and lose both.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 817468 United States 11/13/2009 10:27 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Since I mentioned it before and another person or two mentioned it...and to answer a question....a GOOD straigtedge such as a carpenters square etc. will work and I'm guessing but if there is more than 2 or 3 thousands warpage you could have problems. Shop manuals usually list the limits. Check from different directions. Even at minimums I do a light sanding of the surface for better bonding and sealing for the new gasket. And even at 50 thousand miles you could have warpage from uneven torqueing or uneven heat. Many times the head will be ok but the check is necessary. On an older engine that has a suspected head gasket leak I would always try a professional brand of head gasket/block sealer in the cooling system. Can't hurt and might even fix the problem. Couple that with just a head retorque also sometimes is quick and dirty. :-)
Ouch, I wouldn't do ANY sanding. Especially if the block is cast iron and the heads are aluminum like mine are.
The heat expansion rates are different for iron and aluminum and even a small scrartch from sanding can start to tear the gasket surface over time. Teflon coated gaskets may help that issue but your walking a dangerous line by sanding the heads. As so I was told by a tech.
Only things I used to clean the heads gasket areas are engine degreaser with 000 steel wool. 000 steel wool won't even scratch glass and can be used to clean glass surfaces, so is fine for aluminum with a lubricant. Then I used carb cleaner to remove the residue.
My heads are very very clean right now. It's a work of art.
Quoting: ºCRAPº
When I said sanding I was referring to very fine sandpaper in order to get a clean surface and it wouldn't hurt any more than milling. I never had any trouble with that but you can do whatever you are confortable with. Go by the gasket manufacturers recomendations but there is a high temp rtc you might check into.
ºCRAPº User ID: 728223 United States 11/13/2009 10:54 PM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
When I said sanding I was referring to very fine sandpaper in order to get a clean surface and it wouldn't hurt any more than milling. I never had any trouble with that but you can do whatever you are confortable with. Go by the gasket manufacturers recomendations but there is a high temp rtc you might check into.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 817468
well then we are on the same page. 000 steel wool is a very fine sanding pad.
However I tried using a razor upright and didn't place a lot of pressure and used oil to lube the surface while scrapping material off. It cleaned it so well and the mating surface is ultra smooth.
Red High Temp RTV...I use that stuff but wasn't sure if it can be used on head gaskets. Can it be used? Those who give up a little freedom for a little security deserve neither and lose both.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 787262 United States 11/13/2009 11:46 PM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
When I said sanding I was referring to very fine sandpaper in order to get a clean surface and it wouldn't hurt any more than milling. I never had any trouble with that but you can do whatever you are confortable with. Go by the gasket manufacturers recomendations but there is a high temp rtc you might check into.
well then we are on the same page. 000 steel wool is a very fine sanding pad.
However I tried using a razor upright and didn't place a lot of pressure and used oil to lube the surface while scrapping material off. It cleaned it so well and the mating surface is ultra smooth.
Red High Temp RTV...I use that stuff but wasn't sure if it can be used on head gaskets. Can it be used?
Quoting: ºCRAPº
Dont put anything on the gasket...
Dont cut anything off the gasket
Dont put it on upside down
The reason the water ports in the gasket are smaller than the ones in the head is the HOLES ARE THERE TO ENSURE EVEN COOLING of the head...you make those holes bigger and some parts of the head will wind up with little or no cooling,and other parts will get over-cooled.
Do these five things and you'll avoid most mistakes.
1.Clean the head and block with a razor blade and dont scratch it.
2. Have the head inspected.
3. When you torque the head bolts do not use an extension , clip the torque wrench directly to the socket
4. Read the manual, read it again , then every time you perform a step , re-read the step you just did and the next step.
5. If you have any doubts , JUST STOP and get help.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 776606 United States 11/14/2009 12:22 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
I have one thing to add to the generally good advice being given and that is to re torque the head studs (when the engine is cold) after running the engine to operating temp a couple of times.
Some compression of the head gasket takes place after a couple of hot and cold cycles and this results in a slight lessening of the torque on the studs.
It used to be standard practice years ago but most people neglect this step these days. Try it and you'll find at least some if not all the studs will need some extra torque.
BTW Glass is much harder than aluminum and just cos steel wool wont scratch glass doesn't mean it wont scratch aluminum.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 818023 United States 11/14/2009 1:50 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Get head crack and warp tested before you put it on.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 806478
You actually have to do this and go one better...
You have to have the guys who is going to certify your heads look at your cylinder problem
These guys would be found in the most respected automotive machine shops in your area. And there is a simple reason here, and that is, from where you are, a certified and guaranteed reman may be your best bet. ezpecially if one of your heads don't meet specs.
There are remans out there that come with a 100,000 mile warranty.
Don't fuck with a block that has noticeable imperfections, and don't ever think that a head gasket is going to make up for such a blemish on your block.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 817904 United States 11/14/2009 11:25 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
"Crap"....with the care you are giving that job your job will probably be better than alot of mechanics would do in a shop for most cars that have had a head gasket problem. You know how it is...get em in...get em out. I forgot to recheck what you had done to the heads but sometimes if the heads have a good many miles on them it's sometimes a good idea to have the heads redone...valve seats checked or valve seals replaced etc.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 817904 United States 11/14/2009 11:30 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
And as far as installing the head gasket and using high temp RTV or whatever....go strictly by the head gaskets manufacturers recommendations. As for me...if I had an old crap engine I do whatever seems appropriate but then again I've been through alot of engines. :-) AND...remember...you can do a job and 200,000 miles later the old engine is still cranking but Nascar engine shops can put the greatest care in a 50 grand engine and shit breaks etc.
Anonymous Coward User ID: 817904 United States 11/14/2009 11:46 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
And as far as installing the head gasket and using high temp RTV or whatever....go strictly by the head gaskets manufacturers recommendations. As for me...if I had an old crap engine I do whatever seems appropriate but then again I've been through alot of engines. :-) AND...remember...you can do a job and 200,000 miles later the old engine is still cranking but Nascar engine shops can put the greatest care in a 50 grand engine and shit breaks etc.
Quoting: Anonymous Coward 817904
Additional note..some gaskets already have a coating on them but some people and in some instances use Permatex copper spray especially where there may be irregularities...and as for my self...I always feel more comfortable doing a retorgue after a few heating and cooling cycles.
mopar28m Lev. 23 User ID: 818287 United States 11/14/2009 12:01 PM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
Ok, I'm down to the cylinders. I found a small tear in cylinder #5 from combustion chamber to coolant passage to exterior.
Lower Intake Manifold gaskets were shot as well, but thankfully no coolant in the oil :)
Things are going great, everything labeled, the push rods are ordered correctly in a peg board like setup. Every wire is labeled with blue tape and everything was done to spec.
Now here is the BIG QUESTION!
The coolant passages for the Felpro Head Gaskets are much smaller then my block passages. Should I keep the passages smaller restricting coolant flow or should I cut them to shape perfectly?
I don't understand why the gasket passages are pencil sized holes when the block has passages that are about 3-4 times larger in surface volume.
Anyone with experience please chime in.
Thanks
Quoting: ºCRAPº
You should put a sleeve in cylinder #5 to cover up the tear otherwise you may end redoing everything you are doing now. Could Jesus change Passover?
When I said sanding I was referring to very fine sandpaper in order to get a clean surface and it wouldn't hurt any more than milling. I never had any trouble with that but you can do whatever you are confortable with. Go by the gasket manufacturers recomendations but there is a high temp rtc you might check into.
well then we are on the same page. 000 steel wool is a very fine sanding pad.
However I tried using a razor upright and didn't place a lot of pressure and used oil to lube the surface while scrapping material off. It cleaned it so well and the mating surface is ultra smooth.
Red High Temp RTV...I use that stuff but wasn't sure if it can be used on head gaskets. Can it be used?
Dont put anything on the gasket...
Dont cut anything off the gasket
Dont put it on upside down
The reason the water ports in the gasket are smaller than the ones in the head is the HOLES ARE THERE TO ENSURE EVEN COOLING of the head...you make those holes bigger and some parts of the head will wind up with little or no cooling,and other parts will get over-cooled.
Do these five things and you'll avoid most mistakes.
1.Clean the head and block with a razor blade and dont scratch it.
2. Have the head inspected.
3. When you torque the head bolts do not use an extension , clip the torque wrench directly to the socket
4. Read the manual, read it again , then every time you perform a step , re-read the step you just did and the next step.
5. If you have any doubts , JUST STOP and get help.
Quoting: Lastcall 817962
I've always been partial to a right angle die grinder with a sanding pad on it for cleaning the block. Have to be careful to not cut into the metal too much, but it gets a good clean mating surface. Heads usually come back from the machine shop all clean... and I wouldn't put one back on unless I had no other choice without a visit there first...
Lord Ergo User ID: 790565 United States 11/16/2009 12:25 AM
Re: Any Mechanics here? Need head gasket advice, please
I checked with a carpenters square and it appears unwarped.
I'm going to use Red High Temp RTV for the lower intake and plenum along with the gaskets. Also use it on the exhaust gaskets I'm also replacing.
Is there any type of RTV that can be used in a very thin layer along with the Head Gasket?
Quoting: ºCRAPº
Don't use it on the exhaust gaskets. You'll create a leak if you do. The head gasket will have all it needs already on it. (the orange bead on the gasket is a form of sealant that will melt when the gasket gets hot and insure a good seal)
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