Identical Twins = Why Full Human Spiritual Life with A Soul Does Not Begin At Conception | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834867 United States 12/07/2009 06:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Anti abortionists claim that life beings at conception. Quoting: Mission aborted? 826445I propose that this can not be true because of a simple natural fact...idential twins (or more indential births due to embryo spitting). If the growing embryo is a complete human then when it spits into twins those two developingembryos would have to be considered the same individual with the same soul. Clearly twins are individuals with separate souls. Therefore their spirit/soul had to enter the embrionic zygotes at some point in time after conception and after the fertilized egg split, not before or at the time conception. Otherwise one spirit sould would enter first while the other would have to wait until the orignal fertilized egg splits momemtarily without a sprit/soul giving preferential treatment to one twin soul over the other. That would also mean the second twin was born of the first twin in an asexual process. Clearly these ideas are not accepted. Therefore the two sould of the twins had to enter after conception and after splitting. When exactly that is I cannot say but it is clear to me that twins prove that human life does not fully begin at conception unless you try to argue that the splitting occurs because two souls are forced into one cell. God wrote your soul before the foundation of the world. It is written. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835705 United States 12/07/2009 06:08 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ... unless you try to argue that the splitting occurs because two souls are forced into one cell. Quoting: Mission aborted? 826445Interesting idea, OP. I was about to post an alternative idea, which I don't buy myself, and you mentioned it... |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 781210 United States 12/07/2009 06:28 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Bluebird User ID: 730536 United States 12/07/2009 06:31 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one. Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway. Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 767411 United States 12/07/2009 06:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 826445 United States 12/07/2009 06:36 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: BluebirdAll human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact. This is the basis for the judeao-christan ban on masturbation and birth control. Saying that the same Judeo-Christan people of majority in the west have this option is like telling them they have the option to abortion which in their religious system they have the moral right to none of them no matter the legal status of the actions. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835260 United States 12/07/2009 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I figure its a human when it has a heartbeat and brain activity...the same thing that is used to determine if an adult is alive or dead. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 781210Yet people have no problem killing, eating, and experimenting on animals who have a heartbeat and brain activity. Life is life! |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834867 United States 12/07/2009 06:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: BluebirdAll human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. +1 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835543 United States 12/07/2009 06:48 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 834867All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. +1 +1, that means BEFORE pregnancy, not AFTER pregnancy. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834867 United States 12/07/2009 06:52 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 835543All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. +1 +1, that means BEFORE pregnancy, not AFTER pregnancy. +1 that means before opening your legs, not after. Women are only fertile 5-6 days per month, at best. How hard is it to keep your panties on for a few days? Must we treat females like insipid animals and not educate them on the facts of their own cycles or do we believe that it's easier to murder people than to ask people to regulate their urges and impulses? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 380667 United States 12/07/2009 06:55 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Think about this: a bible verse (help me christians) that says that God knew you and knit you in your mother's womb. So think about that for a minute. He split the cell...he took care of the soul entering in. It's God that does that...I'm sure that as soon as the cell splits, he enters in the souls... |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 826445 United States 12/07/2009 07:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834867 United States 12/07/2009 07:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Think about this: a bible verse (help me christians) that says that God knew you and knit you in your mother's womb. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 380667So think about that for a minute. He split the cell...he took care of the soul entering in. It's God that does that...I'm sure that as soon as the cell splits, he enters in the souls... Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834867 United States 12/07/2009 07:03 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826445Rape victims do not usually have this choice. The child created would be a victim also, if you put him/her to death. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835543 United States 12/07/2009 07:04 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826445Rape victims do not usually have this choice. The thread is about "Why Full Human Spiritual Life with A Soul Does Not Begin At Conception". Nothing was mentioned about rape. Please stay on the same page or go home. |
DaJavoo User ID: 825257 United States 12/07/2009 07:06 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 811871 Canada 12/07/2009 07:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826445Rape victims do not usually have this choice. Mental illness, abuse, etc., If it were simple, we wouldn't be agonizing long after the facts of the matter have passed. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 655838 United States 12/07/2009 08:00 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ALL OF YOU HAVE DESTROYED LIFE AND DESERVE TO BE INCARCERATED FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES!!!! YOU'VE HURT YOURSELF YES?!?! THEN YOU KILLED CELLS!!!LIVING ORGANISMS!!!WHATEVER DID THEY DO TO YOU??? lol fools, and don't go talking about "potential" that's irrelevant. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 764206 United States 12/07/2009 08:09 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Anti abortionists claim that life beings at conception. Quoting: Mission aborted? 826445I propose that this can not be true because of a simple natural fact...idential twins (or more indential births due to embryo spitting). If the growing embryo is a complete human then when it spits into twins those two developingembryos would have to be considered the same individual with the same soul. Clearly twins are individuals with separate souls. Therefore their spirit/soul had to enter the embrionic zygotes at some point in time after conception and after the fertilized egg split, not before or at the time conception. Otherwise one spirit sould would enter first while the other would have to wait until the orignal fertilized egg splits momemtarily without a sprit/soul giving preferential treatment to one twin soul over the other. That would also mean the second twin was born of the first twin in an asexual process. Clearly these ideas are not accepted. Therefore the two sould of the twins had to enter after conception and after splitting. When exactly that is I cannot say but it is clear to me that twins prove that human life does not fully begin at conception unless you try to argue that the splitting occurs because two souls are forced into one cell. St. Thomas Aquinas postulated that the soul entered the fertilized egg at approximately five days after conception. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835877 Sweden 12/07/2009 08:16 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826445All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact. This is the basis for the judeao-christan ban on masturbation and birth control. Saying that the same Judeo-Christan people of majority in the west have this option is like telling them they have the option to abortion which in their religious system they have the moral right to none of them no matter the legal status of the actions. >>God struck a man named Onnan << Where is that - book, chapter and verse? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835877 Sweden 12/07/2009 08:19 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Think about this: a bible verse (help me christians) that says that God knew you and knit you in your mother's womb. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 834867So think about that for a minute. He split the cell...he took care of the soul entering in. It's God that does that...I'm sure that as soon as the cell splits, he enters in the souls... Psalm 139:13 For you created my inmost being; you knit me together in my mother's womb. And this: Jer 1:4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, and I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 777135 United States 12/07/2009 08:23 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 825669 United States 12/07/2009 10:34 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact. This is the basis for the judeao-christan ban on masturbation and birth control. Saying that the same Judeo-Christan people of majority in the west have this option is like telling them they have the option to abortion which in their religious system they have the moral right to none of them no matter the legal status of the actions. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 835877>>God struck a man named Onnan << Where is that - book, chapter and verse? Genesis 38:9 |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 835960 United States 12/07/2009 10:41 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | ALL OF YOU HAVE DESTROYED LIFE AND DESERVE TO BE INCARCERATED FOR THE REST OF YOUR LIVES!!!! Quoting: Anonymous Coward 655838YOU'VE HURT YOURSELF YES?!?! THEN YOU KILLED CELLS!!!LIVING ORGANISMS!!!WHATEVER DID THEY DO TO YOU??? lol fools, and don't go talking about "potential" that's irrelevant. You forget your meds today? |
neverfear User ID: 834307 United States 12/07/2009 10:54 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I call my brother, my "Evil Twin" because I had to share my Mothers womb with an evil entity. Indeed, my "Evil Twin" is evil! Yahweh said, "Jacob I have loved, Esau I have hated". He created them both in the womb, one good, one evil! Any questions? Oh, and this is for you OP, ----> |
9teen.47™ User ID: 835692 United Kingdom 12/07/2009 10:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Anti abortionists claim that life beings at conception. Quoting: Mission aborted? 826445Life begins before conception. Read this tract carefully. WHO MURDERED CLARICE?... [link to www.chick.com] Jer 1:4 Then the word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Jer 1:5 Before I formed thee in the belly I knew thee; and before thou camest forth out of the womb I sanctified thee, [and] I ordained thee a prophet unto the nations. Last Edited by 9teen.47™ on 12/07/2009 11:00 PM Zec 12:3 And in that day will I make Jerusalem a burdensome stone for all people: all that burden themselves with it shall be cut in pieces, though all the people of the earth be gathered together against it. Psa 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell, [and] all the nations that forget God. Jer 6:2 I have likened the daughter of Zion to a comely and delicate [woman]. STOCK UP NOW. You should have at least 6 months worth of basics for every member of your household. Stay away from crowds when trouble starts, do not forget water storage, tobacco is worth more than gold or silver, and be kind to hungry children. |
Anonymous Coward 12/07/2009 10:58 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 812862 United States 12/07/2009 11:01 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 834354 South Africa 12/07/2009 11:02 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 826445All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact. This is the basis for the judeao-christan ban on masturbation and birth control. Saying that the same Judeo-Christan people of majority in the west have this option is like telling them they have the option to abortion which in their religious system they have the moral right to none of them no matter the legal status of the actions. >>In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact<< NOT true - he was killed because he was disobeyed a direct order from God. |
Anonymous Coward (OP) User ID: 826445 United States 12/07/2009 11:18 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | It either is human life or it isn't. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 834354All human life should be respected or none should be. There can't be grades of humans and only some count and others do not. Can't have it both ways and many people object to abortion for reasons other than religion. Things like it is barbaric and inflicts horrific pain and suffering. People who do not want children have the option of preventing it before the fact. In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact. This is the basis for the judeao-christan ban on masturbation and birth control. Saying that the same Judeo-Christan people of majority in the west have this option is like telling them they have the option to abortion which in their religious system they have the moral right to none of them no matter the legal status of the actions. >>In the Old Testament God struck a man named Onnan dead for preventing pregnancy during sexual contact<< NOT true - he was killed because he was disobeyed a direct order from God. Then birth control and masterbation would not be forbidden by the catholic church and others. This is where they get it from. They take a very literal view. Your view is a more moderate opinion that does not support previous organized opinions on Onanism. |