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Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.

 
Full Circle

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12/09/2009 11:04 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
"another source of plasma were to enter the solar system."

The only explanation I can come up for this suggestion is perhaps we were passing through a large cloud of gas at the time, very possible since gas clouds are everywhere in space but it would had to have been extremely dense cloud...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 836032


Xenus? What is your take on this? G1.9+3.0

[link to www.australia.to]
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
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- Scott Mutter
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 11:32 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
A brown dwarf would still have an immense magnetic field, reaching millions of kms. As you may or may not know, magnetic fields deflect any charged particles, like if you were to take a strong magnet and place it near a CRT monitor you can see the particles being deflected by the field. Since brown dwarfs rarely emit any detectable radiation like light or heat, they are extremely hard to observe. I would think that something like this would be noticeable by now if it were deflecting cosmic rays, if it was in orbit we could perhaps find it by looking at the levels of cosmic ray flux. And plus, the oort cloud is only theoretical, and the much larger hills cloud is hypothetical, so I wouldn't worry about it too much, both these debris clouds are millions, if not billions of km away, so if anything is there it would still be a long time before it gets close.

Also brown dwarf could send out cosmic rays like our sun, but since we know very little about these objects it is hard to say. Cosmic rays from the sun can cause aurora, any cosmic rays can cause aurora, so why not cosmic rays from a brown dwarf, if in fact they do emit them.

"Because it has no strong central nuclear energy source, the interior of a brown dwarf is in a rapid boiling, or convective motion. When combined with the rapid rotation that most brown dwarfs exhibit, convection sets up conditions for the development of a strong, tangled magnetic field near the surface.

The flare observed by Chandra from LP944-20 could have its origin in the turbulent magnetized hot material beneath the brown dwarf's surface. A sub-surface flare could conduct heat to the atmosphere, allowing electric currents to flow and produce an X-ray flare, like a stroke of lightning. Further observations of brown dwarf flares will be very important for understanding the development of strong magnetic fields and flaring activity in brown dwarfs and giant planets."
[link to chandra.harvard.edu]

Tangled magnetic fields and particle acceleration go hand in hand. Why are you all looking at some possibility of a brown dwarf when we have two already in our solar system? Jupiter and Saturn, gas giants are simply smaller failed stars. I have a thread here somewhere about a possible excess of charged particles with NASA claiming it was from some undiscovered exotic object close to us (within 1000 light years). Cosmic rays come from all sorts of dead or dying stars, neutron stars, black "holes", magnetars, blazars, pulsars etc... all these "exotic" objects were once stars and they all emit radiation and matter in bursts.

Look past the labels and names and look at how these objects behave, you'll understand then. A star is like a moth, it has two stages of "life". And we don't even really know what happens to these exotic objects over time, maybe they turn back into stars, we simply don't know and really it makes little difference right now.
Full Circle

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12/09/2009 11:40 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Thanks. Honestly, I really don't understand any of the scientific jargon. I only sense in myself that something is going on here. Something BIG. And we've been warned about it through things such at the petroglyphs this thread is about. peace

(If there's one thing I have learned in this life, it's to trust my intuition. It hasn't been far wrong yet.)

Last Edited by Full Circle on 12/09/2009 11:46 AM
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 11:55 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Thanks. Honestly, I really don't understand any of the scientific jargon. I only sense in myself that something is going on here. Something BIG. And we've been warned about it through things such at the petroglyphs this thread is about. peace

(If there's one thing I have learned in this life, it's to trust my intuition. It hasn't been far wrong yet.)
 Quoting: Full Circle


The only thing you really need to understand is that these are electrical phenomena. I wish I had your certainty. Also it's not so much as a warning but rather history repeating itself, perhaps some kind of cyclical pattern or cycle.
Full Circle

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12/09/2009 11:59 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Thanks. Honestly, I really don't understand any of the scientific jargon. I only sense in myself that something is going on here. Something BIG. And we've been warned about it through things such at the petroglyphs this thread is about. peace

(If there's one thing I have learned in this life, it's to trust my intuition. It hasn't been far wrong yet.)


The only thing you really need to understand is that these are electrical phenomena. I wish I had your certainty. Also it's not so much as a warning but rather history repeating itself, perhaps some kind of cyclical pattern or cycle.
 Quoting: Xenus 836032


Exactly. A cyclical event that we have been told about. And yep. This is an electric universe. And we are also electrical beings.
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 12:17 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Every atom inside of us has electrons, so technically yes we are. Yet what exactly IS electricity? We call the movement of electrons, electricity but what exactly is an electron? Why do you think we spend billions on trying to find out what comes out of atoms and particles when you collide them at high energies? Too bad we'll never really know due to the fractal reality of it all, crack open a sub atomic particle and there is something inside of them, crack those open and I'm sure there will be sub-sub particles lol. Also the uncanny resemblance between atomic structures and planetary systems is odd. As above, so below I guess.
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 12:41 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Found this reply after watching one of the golden ration vids someone posted on the Norway anomaly thread.

"007antimatter (1 week ago)

My theory is easy to grasp for some who have an open mind. All known things great and small continue into infinity. In both directions can you travel forever -big and small they never end. The size of the observer determines the dimension the observer is in. Dimensions are therefor infinite. If you could be shrunk down and could stand on an electron in your own body you would see a solar system around you. When i look at the galaxies i am looking at cells of something big.Just an 11yr.olds view"

This kid is pretty smart for an 11 year old.
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2009 12:51 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
The most benign situation for life in an Electric Universe is inside the electrical cocoon of a brown dwarf star. Radiant energy is then evenly distributed over the entire surface of any planet orbiting within the chromosphere of such a star, regardless of axial rotation, tilt, or orbital eccentricity.

The exceedingly thin atmosphere of such stars has the essential water and carbon compounds to mist down onto planetary surfaces. The reddish light is ideal for photosynthesis. Such a model provides one reason why the Search for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence (SETI) project is unlikely to succeed. Any advanced civilization on such a planet will be unaware that the universe exists outside its own stellar environment, and radio communication through the glow discharge of the star is impossible.
Full Circle

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12/09/2009 01:00 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Found this reply after watching one of the golden ration vids someone posted on the Norway anomaly thread.

"007antimatter (1 week ago)

My theory is easy to grasp for some who have an open mind. All known things great and small continue into infinity. In both directions can you travel forever -big and small they never end. The size of the observer determines the dimension the observer is in. Dimensions are therefor infinite. If you could be shrunk down and could stand on an electron in your own body you would see a solar system around you. When i look at the galaxies i am looking at cells of something big.Just an 11yr.olds view"

This kid is pretty smart for an 11 year old.
 Quoting: Xenus 836032


The kid is brilliant! Sounds about right to me! lol
Born into this World
We create echoes of our inward yearnings
And Shift along the Axis
From matter to Spirit
- Scott Mutter
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2009 01:00 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
[link to www.thunderbolts.info]
Anonymous Coward
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12/09/2009 01:03 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
An intriguing theory that would explain the appearance of nearly identical symbols simultaneously around the world.


 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 548848


I have a better explanation.

One people
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 01:41 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
An intriguing theory that would explain the appearance of nearly identical symbols simultaneously around the world.




I have a better explanation.

One people
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 837078


One people and yet 3 separate and distinct races? The only possible explanation is that these symbols appeared in the sky and were seen by many ancient people around the world. It's not like they had labs where they performed high energy plasma experiments and then carved their results onto rocks.
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 04:53 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
[link to images.google.com.au]

Spiral petroglyphs, exactly like the plasma/aurora anomaly over Norway.
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 05:09 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
It was only by accident that I found this paper, the night before this Norway incident and then the very thing it talks about happens, now that is freaky. Don't be fooled by the so called explanation of it being a rocket...
DRHOECKER
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12/09/2009 05:20 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
So I stumbled onto this today while searching for new information about cosmic rays and lightning. Interesting, to say the least. Check out the .PDF for images and have a look for yourselves.

The discovery that objects from the Neolithic or Early Bronze Age carry patterns associated with high-current Z-pinches provides a possible insight into the origin and meaning of these ancient symbols produced by man. This paper directly compares the graphical and radiation data from high-current Z-pinches to these patterns. The paper focuses primarily, but not exclusively, on petroglyphs. It is found that a great many archaic petroglyphs can be classified according to plasma stability and instability data. As the same morphological types are found worldwide, the comparisons suggest the occurrence of an intense aurora, as might be produced if the solar wind had increased between one and two orders of magnitude, millennia ago.

ON July 9, 1962, the United States detonated a 1.4-megaton
thermonuclear device in the atmosphere 400 km above
Johnston Island. The event produced a plasma whose initial
spherical shape striated within a few minutes as the plasma electrons and ions streamed along the Earth’s magnetic field to produce an artificial aurora.

Concomitant with the artificial aurora was a degradation of
radio communications over wide areas of the Pacific, lightning discharges, destruction of electronics in monitoring satellites, and an electromagnetic pulse that affected some power circuitry as far away as Hawaii.

*snip*

A. Lightning
Strong electrical discharges are associated with intense inflowing charged particles. This is the lightning most often seenin connection with atmospheric discharges whose tortuosity are the jagged and complex light strokes seen in the sky and accompanied by the sound of the shock wave.

B. Heteromacs
Kukushkin and Rantsev-Kartinov at the Kurchatov Institute, Moscow, Russia, found that, based on fractal dimension analysis of experimental data from plasma pinches, electric current-carrying plasmas are a random fractal medium. The basic building block of this medium was identified by Kukushkin and Rantsev-Kartinov to be an almost-closed helical filamentary plasma configuration called a heteromac [40].

*snip*
Petroglyphs frequently appear on the face
of rocks at heights and under conditions which seemed to
render their production impossible without the appliances of
advanced civilization, a large outlay, and the exercise of unusual skill.” Hence, like Humboldt, Mallory perhaps unconsciously subscribes to the idea that petroglyphs are other than primitive ritualistic scratchings [43].

*snip*
A discovery that the basic petroglyph morphologies are the
same as those recorded in extremely high-energy-density discharges has opened up a means to unravel the origin of these apparently crude, misdrawn, and jumbled figures found in uncounted numbers around the Earth.

Drawn in heteromac style (Fig. 12), these ancient patterns
could mimic and replicate high-energy phenomena
that would be recorded on a nonerasable plasma display screen. Many petroglyphs, apparently recorded several millennia ago, have a plasma discharge or instability counterpart, some on a one-to-one or overlay basis. More striking is that the images recorded on rock are the only images found in extreme energy density experiments; no other morphology types or patterns are observed [46], [67].

The instability is that associated with an intense current-carrying column of plasma which undergoes both sausage and helix deformations. Such a current would be produced if the solar flux from the Sun were to increase one or two magnitudes or if another source of plasma were to enter the solar system.

*snip*
Two important classes of petroglyphs, spirals and concentric
horseshoes, are not discussed in this paper. These map the
Birkeland currents as depicted in Fig. 4 and provide quantitative information on the electrical parameters. These, including solar wind-magnetosphere interactions, are being studied with TRISTAN [8], [24], [69] and will be presented elsewhere.

[link to www.scribd.com]
 Quoting: Xenus 836032

THEN THERE IS THE ONES I SHOW ON YOUTUBE AND HERE.DRHOECKER
Xenus (OP)
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
I see you have videos of ancient rock art and stuff, can you share any that show the same plasma physics as seen in the .pdf? Like the spirals and spheroids and toroids?
Xenus (OP)
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12/09/2009 07:23 PM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
bump

So people can see the event in Norway is exactly the same as seen in petroglyphs around the world.
Xenus (OP)
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12/10/2009 03:37 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
I found it a little strange how I found this yesterday and then today we have the exact same dense plasma phenomena in Norway.

Plasma is overwhemingly the dominant constituent of the universe as a whole. Yet most people are ignorant of plasmas. In daily life on the surface of planet Earth, perhaps the plasma to which people are most commonly exposed is the one that produces the cool efficient glow from fluorescent lights. Neither solid, nor liquid, nor gas, a plasma most closely resembles the latter, but unlike gases whose components are electrically neutral, plasma is composed of the building blocks of all matter: electrically charged particles at high energy.

Plasma is so energetic or "hot" that in space it consists soley of ions and electrons. It is only when plasma is cooled that the atoms or molecules that are so predominant in forming gases, liquids, and solids that we are so accustomed to on Earth, is possible. So, in space, plasma remains electrically charged. Thus plasmas carry electric currents and are more influenced by electromagnetic forces than by gravitational forces. Outside the Earth's atmosphere, the dominant form of matter is plasma, and "empty" space has been found to be quite "alive" with a constant flow of plasma.

Plasma is by far the most common form of matter known. Plasma in the stars and in the tenuous space between them make up over 99% of the visible universe and perhaps most of that which is not visible. On earth we live upon an island of "ordinary" matter. The different states of matter found on earth are solid, liquid, and gas. We have learned to work, play, and rest using these states of matter. Sir William Crookes, an English physicist, identified another, more fundamental, state of matter in 1879. In 1929, Nobel Laureate Irving Langmuir gave this state a name, plasma. He borrowed the term from medical science because the matter with which he worked resembled life itself. It formed cells through bifurcation and often acted in a complicated and unpredictable manner. Plasma is defined as an assemblage of charged particles called electrons and ions that react collectively to forces exerted by electric and magnetic fields.

Given its nature, the plasma state is characterized by a complexity that vastly exceeds that exhibited in the solid, liquid, and gaseous states. Correspondingly, the study of the physical and especially the electrodynamical properties of plasma forms one of the most far ranging and difficult research areas in physics today. From spiral galaxies to controlled fusion, this little-known state of matter, the fundamental state, is proving to be of ever greater significance in explaining the dynamics of the universe and in harnessing the material world for the greatest technological result.
Xenus (OP)
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Now for something really out there. The plasma in our visible universe (99% of it), the way it behaves is lifelike and yet particles within the plasma move independently and create electric and magnetic fields, what if it was really alive? What if it was... god?
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2009 05:11 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
great post

very relevent to Norway incident imho.

afro
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
bump

So people can see the event in Norway is exactly the same as seen in petroglyphs around the world.
 Quoting: Xenus 836032


didn't see this or I would of bumped it.

I totally agree.

something really big is happening!!!!
Xenus (OP)
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12/10/2009 05:54 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Drawn in heteromac style (Fig. 12), these ancient patterns
could mimic and replicate high-energy phenomena that would be recorded on a nonerasable plasma display screen. Many petroglyphs, apparently recorded several millennia ago, have a plasma discharge or instability counterpart, some on a one-to-one or overlay basis. More striking is that the images recorded on rock are the only images found in extreme energy density experiments; no other morphology types or patterns are observed.

The instability is that associated with an intense current-carrying column of plasma which undergoes both sausage and helix deformations. Such a current would be produced if the solar flux from the Sun were to increase one or two magnitudes or if another source of plasma were to enter the solar system.

[link to www.scribd.com]
 Quoting: Xenus 836032


"or if another source of plasma were to enter the solar system"

I've recently received some information regarding what this other source of plasma is but I won't reveal what it is, not until I get a few details confirmed and straightened out, suffice to say that this high density plasma event in Norway is only the beginning and we will be seeing more such events in the future... I just would like to find out how this situation will affect us. The sun going into a deep minimum, solar wind speed dropping, cosmic rays increasing, solar wind density dropping, weather changes it's all related I think, I just need to make sure. I don't want to give out the wrong information.

And no, it's not a planet, or a comet or anything that has been posted here before (I think the poster aussie bloke came the closest but he was still wrong). But for some reason I have a feeling not to many people will really care anyway, the thread itself is not sensationalist enough, it doesn't have any fantastic claims or aliens or anything of that sort. People don't like the truth, they fear it. Too bad it's not the truth you should be fearing. And for all our sakes, I hope that these pretty amazing night sky plasma shows are the worst that is going to happen... The timing of this all is just too close in regards to the whole mayan calender thing for my liking.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2009 06:31 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Aurora Borealis or Northern Lights
it is the time of year

maybe !
Lady Lara Croft

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12/10/2009 06:39 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
track

Last Edited by Not a Lady Lara Croft on 12/10/2009 06:49 AM
Nothing Is True

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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
:ancientroc:
This rock is well over ten thousand years old. It has ancient writing and script all over it. I started with "Ancient Pagan Symbols" to begin the deciphering.
I believe this rock to have an image of an ancient king.
It tells a story and includes the "ape" people in that story. The story it tells is only a beginning. I had this rock for nearly 16 years before the discovery that it holds many secrets.
It has the marks you describe and many more. This rock is an absolute piece of art.
 Quoting: Lady Lara Croft

I'd love to see close-ups of the script on that rock, LLC. Where is it from?


This thread interests me hugely. I've been researching these spirals for many many years (the only tattoo I've got on my body is the triple-spiral from Newgrange lol).

I think the OP is on the right track..

5*
Everything is permitted..
Xenus (OP)
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12/10/2009 07:23 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Dr. Anthony L. Peratt, author of the paper I showed you at the start.

[link to www.zoominfo.com]

ELECTRIC SPACE

The term 'Electric Space' was coined by Dr. Carolyn Brown, Chief, Asian Division, Library of Congress in the 1990s. The name was then used to innaugurate the National Oceanic & Atmospheric Administration Learning Resource Center's exhibits on space weather, space plasmas, and the plasma universe; as well as its travelling exhibits.

With the advent and widespread use of the internet, terms long used in the academic community such as plasma universe, plasma astrophysics and cosmology, and electric space, used in titles in peer-reviewed, archived journals, disciplines within physics and engineering, and in books by known publishers, started to become corrupted in the public domain. New terms invented by anyone with a personal computer and access to the internet has led to considerable confusion. Disciplinary names like plasma universe, cosmical electrodynamics, plasma astrophysics and cosmology becoming associated with like sounding names such as 'plasma cosmology' and 'electricity something'; but reinterpreted and finding favor with crystal-link sites, ufo sites, and others touting 'shocking stories about electricity', psychodelic trance producers and music, and other endeavors.


This guy is not to be taken lightly, it's not just a few of these petroglyphs that have these high density plasma events carved into them.


The recent THEMIS spacecraft discovery of two very large holes in the Earth's magnetosphere helps explain an anomaly in the global distribution of petroglyphs on our planet [1]. Previously, we reported a world wide GPS logging of some 4 million of these objects, each a picture of a filamental MHD instability carved in rock [2, 3]. In all cases, the field-of-view of the petroglyphs was true south with an off-horizon inclination between 21 -- 31 degrees. However, in a complete survey of the braided lava tube caves on Easter Island, petroglyphs were also found in long, true-north shafts, 50 m or more in length.
[link to meetings.aps.org]
Xenus (OP)
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
An email reply from Dr. Perrat.

Regarding plasma/aurora phenomena over Norway.

>Hi, just a couple of days ago I came across your paper
>Characteristics for the Occurrence of a HighCurrent ZPinch Aurora as
>Recorded in Antiquity, it was fascinating and I was just wondering
>if th[at] was indeed one of the plasma phenomena as seen in the
>petroglyphs found all over the world. The timing of such an event
>could not have been any weirder, since I had only just found your
>paper. I would also like to know if you think this was natural or
>man made? I am curious to see if this "anomaly" was due to EISCAT
>research centre or if indeed it is caused by cosmic ray flux or some
>other kind of space event.

This event was natural and occurs when two Birkeland currents
interact, usually around 300 -500 km above Earth. Birkeland currents
most often occur in pairs because of the 1/r attractive force between
them.

This is not an EISCAT heating phenomena.


Not the HAARP and plasma research facility, they do not have the capability to produce such high density plasma events, only minor aurora.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2009 08:37 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
bump for bookmarking to read later.

Hopefully, someone can bring this information down to "layman's" terms...now I know how non-medical people feel with medical terminology. *sigh*

I understand the basics but do not understand the cause nor the effects of the information relayed.
Xenus (OP)
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12/10/2009 08:55 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
Ok, this is the second email.

[link to plasmauniverse.info] -> Near-Earth Manifestations of the Plasma Universe.

Today we have only very weak auroras in the upper ionosphere. In the past, as NASA's THEMIS satellites have discovered, they were a million-million times more energetic and located say, 1 million km from Earth. Petroglyphs are pictures of these, we know, from thermonuclear explosion pictures underground and very high energy experiments in canyons. Also, from supercomputer modeling.

(I have to insert my question here for this to make sense)
And one last thing, given the rise in cosmic ray flux recently and the drop in strength of the Interplanetary Magnetic Field, can we expect more of these types of events in the future?

No, the cosmic flux will not change anything but dense plasma entering the solar system, as is now happening, will.

I sent him one more in order to get some clarification regarding the actual effects on our solar system due to this dense plasma. So far the only thing I know we can expect is more of these high density events.



The effects are still not clear, but you have to look at the timing of this dense plasma cloud entering our solar system, the sun being so weak and quiet, the solar wind is slowing down and particle density of the wind is dropping.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2009 09:14 AM
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Re: Petroglyphs, not just simple, crude drawings from ancient man. The truth is stranger then you could ever imagine.
OP, I must say this is probably the best thread I have read here. Dont be discouraged. Some people are taking note.

clappa

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