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When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion

 
DaJavoo
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12/22/2009 09:08 AM
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When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
By Michael Barone [link to www.realclearpolitics.com]

In the Bella Center on the south side of Copenhagen and in the Senate chamber on the north side of the Capitol, we're seeing what happens when liberal dreams collide with American public opinion. It's like what happens when a butterfly collides with the windshield of a speeding SUV. Splat.

The liberal dreams may have seemed, on those nights in Invesco Field and Grant Park, as beautiful as a butterfly. But they are still subject to the merciless laws of political physics.

Eleven months ago, this did not seem inevitable. It was widely supposed that economic distress would increase America's appetite for big government measures to restrict carbon dioxide emissions and control the provision of health care. Especially when a young dynamic president employed his oratorical gifts to transcend, as he put it, old ideological and partisan divisions.

Barack Obama, who seemed so confident of his powers as he prepared for his inauguration, evidently believed that he could persuade Americans to support left-of-center policies that they had never favored before.

A Democratic Congress rejected Hillary Clinton's health care plan in 1994, and a unanimous Senate rejected the central provision of the Kyoto Protocol in 1997. But this time, with a steep recession and a new leader, things would be different.

As snow fell on the global warming alarmists in Copenhagen and a winter storm made a beeline for the Capitol as the Senate was set to begin its round-the-clock weekend session, things don't seem that different at all.

The Copenhagen conclave seems to be unable to produce the promised binding treaty committing 100-plus nations to reduce carbon emissions. It seems likely to kick the can down the road to 2012.

One reason is that the leaders of China and India are unwilling to slow down the economic growth that has been lifting millions out of poverty in order to avert a disaster predicted by climate scientists who, we now know from the Climategate e-mails, have been busy manipulating data, suppressing evidence and silencing anyone who disagrees.

Another is that American voters have shown a growing skepticism of such predictions. The cap-and-trade bill that Obama hoped to brag about in Copenhagen now clearly has no chance of passage in the Senate. Obama talks of giving developing countries $100 billion to pay for emissions reductions. But the ABC/Washington Post poll reports that by a 57 percent to 39 percent margin Americans oppose donating even $10 billion.

Similarly, pollster Scott Rasmussen reports that only 34 percent of Americans say passing a Democratic health care bill is better than passing nothing, while 57 percent say it's better to pass no health care bill at all. That's also the opinion of Dr. Howard Dean, former Democratic national chairman, and the left-wing MSNBC pundit Keith Olbermann.

There is still some chance that Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid can corral 60 Democratic votes for whatever health care bill he unveils. But it's looking increasingly unlikely -- and increasingly politically suicidal for some of those 60 Senate Democrats. (DaJ Note: We can hope.)

Bill Clinton has told those Democrats that they'd be better off politically passing something rather than nothing. But his own job rating swelled only after his health care proposals failed to pass.

"What's really exceptional at this stage of Obama's presidency," writes Andrew Kohut, the Pew Research Center's respected pollster, "is the extent to which the public has moved in a conservative direction on a range of issues. These trends have emanated as much from the middle of the electorate as from the highly energized conservative right. Even more notable, however, is the extent to which liberals appear to be dozing as the country has shifted on both economic and social issues."

From which we can draw two conclusions. One is that economic distress does not move Americans to support more government. Rasmussen reports that 66 percent of Americans favor smaller government with fewer services and only 22 percent favor more services and higher taxes.

The second is that Barack Obama's persuasive powers are surprisingly weak. His advocacy seems to have moved Americans in the opposite of the intended direction.

Obama first came to national attention in 2004 by promising to heal partisan, ideological and racial divisions. Like the other two Democratic presidents elected in the last 40 years, he campaigned in the center and started off governing on the left. In Copenhagen and on Capitol Hill, we are seeing the results. Splat.
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 09:22 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Obumer Splat. hf
Evil Twin

12/22/2009 09:29 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Telling a center-right nation to sit down and shut up isn't going to work.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 09:30 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
DJthanx DJpin
:DJrebelli:
Bluebird

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12/22/2009 09:37 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
But the big difference this time is that they have planned ahead. Obama got that huge stimulus package he asked for and said the nation could not continue without.

He is still holding on to the bulk of that and will only release it right before elections next year to insure that his cronies continue in office ACORN style.

This time, they don't have to worry about their re-election as all of that has been taken care of in advance. So they really don't care what we think any more.

Otherwise, their behavior would be politically suicidal. Amazing what a little planning can do, isn't it.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Fantasia II
Koo Koo Ka Choo

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12/22/2009 09:38 AM

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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Telling a center-right nation to sit down and shut up isn't going to work.
 Quoting: Evil Twin

Exactly!
George Orwell was right..Black is White, Up is Down, War is Peace...

"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."

Yesterday is history.......Tomorrow a mystery.......Today is a gift......thats why we call it the Present!!!
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 09:38 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
isn't it more to do with 'better the devil you know' mentality and to a lesser degree, spite?
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 09:40 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .
Fantasia II
Koo Koo Ka Choo

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12/22/2009 09:41 AM

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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846942

hiding
George Orwell was right..Black is White, Up is Down, War is Peace...

"Never believe anything until it has been officially denied."

Yesterday is history.......Tomorrow a mystery.......Today is a gift......thats why we call it the Present!!!
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 09:47 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .

hiding
 Quoting: Fantasia II



Palin and Beck in 2012. Time to restore honesty, intelligence and integrity back to the white house. Like the good ole days of Bush and Cheney.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:04 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Telling a center-right nation to sit down and shut up isn't going to work.
 Quoting: Evil Twin


Not well, fer reel.
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:05 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
But the big difference this time is that they have planned ahead. Obama got that huge stimulus package he asked for and said the nation could not continue without.

He is still holding on to the bulk of that and will only release it right before elections next year to insure that his cronies continue in office ACORN style.

This time, they don't have to worry about their re-election as all of that has been taken care of in advance. So they really don't care what we think any more.

Otherwise, their behavior would be politically suicidal. Amazing what a little planning can do, isn't it.
 Quoting: Bluebird


Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.

DJ2012
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:06 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
isn't it more to do with 'better the devil you know' mentality and to a lesser degree, spite?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846971



It's about "We the People..."

DJbortp
:DJrebelli:
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:07 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846942

DJbetcha DJbachmann
:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 10:07 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846942

Sarah Palin ain't gonna save us. She'll just let the corporate bankers bend her over a desk and bang her up the bum like they are already doing to us.
Grizzled Old Goat

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12/22/2009 10:11 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
But the big difference this time is that they have planned ahead. Obama got that huge stimulus package he asked for and said the nation could not continue without.

He is still holding on to the bulk of that and will only release it right before elections next year to insure that his cronies continue in office ACORN style.

This time, they don't have to worry about their re-election as all of that has been taken care of in advance. So they really don't care what we think any more.

Otherwise, their behavior would be politically suicidal. Amazing what a little planning can do, isn't it.


Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.

DJ2012
 Quoting: DaJavoo


I hope you are right - people have short memories..
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 10:11 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
The people in power know that money will not get them reelected. That's why they are counting on a pandemic so Barry can get martial law.

These people rule best when there is no voting. You'll see.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:12 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
But the big difference this time is that they have planned ahead. Obama got that huge stimulus package he asked for and said the nation could not continue without.

He is still holding on to the bulk of that and will only release it right before elections next year to insure that his cronies continue in office ACORN style.

This time, they don't have to worry about their re-election as all of that has been taken care of in advance. So they really don't care what we think any more.

Otherwise, their behavior would be politically suicidal. Amazing what a little planning can do, isn't it.


Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.

DJ2012


I hope you are right - people have short memories..
 Quoting: Grizzled Old Goat


Perhaps, but their wallets will be no fatter.

:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 10:13 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .

Sarah Palin ain't gonna save us. She'll just let the corporate bankers bend her over a desk and bang her up the bum like they are already doing to us.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 633362



But I was told by the diehrad republicans that Palin could save us, and that she would be different then all the rest.

YOU MEAN THEY LIED TO ME ?

rofl.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 10:14 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
The people in power know that money will not get them reelected. That's why they are counting on a pandemic so Barry can get martial law.

These people rule best when there is no voting. You'll see.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846518


Or perhaps an econo-doom shit sandwich of global proportions or the reliable 'false flag' terror event.
:DJrebelli:
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12/22/2009 11:07 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
FP: Victor Hanson, welcome to Frontpage Interview.

Hanson: Glad to be here again.

FP: Sarah Palin is, clearly, carving out a national presence right now. It’s not just the appeal of her book, but also her outspokenness on the Copenhagen conference and other issues. What do you think she might be up to? And what is she tapping into? What are her possibilities?

Hanson: I think she taps into a current of populist unhappiness in the country with Washington insiders, Big Money, and condescending elites in the media and popular culture. The Wasilla mom of five, married to the snow-mobile champ, is simply the antithesis of all that. She senses the general disgust with an insider class that has nearly bankrupted the country through insane federal spending and equally insane financial speculation. She resonates in this regard mostly through an authentic middle-class upbringing, the real-world living of Alaska, natural intelligence, spunk and drive that sent one from the Wasilla city-council to the governorship of Alaska—and common sense answers like less government, lower taxes, more self-reliance, and national confidence.

Her can-do “let’s develop our own energy and spend no more than we earn” creed has a reassurance in these days. People root for her. The Ivy-Leaguers in government, whether the lawyer Obama or the economist Summers, haven’t exactly wowed the public with their studied brilliance so far.

Palin feels at ease with Middle America, and in a strange way is the antithesis to Barack Obama. Both are young, and charismatic, and appeal to populist constituencies. But whereas Obama came out of a Honolulu prep school and elite Ivy League hot-house, and had to acquire, quite artificially, his street credentials at the foot of Rev. Wright and in the Chicago scratch-back world of Valerie Jarrett and Mayor Daley, Palin was a true product of the working class and took on rather than swam into the status quo political structure.

That fact was sadly lost in 2008, but it is starting to ring true as her popularity rises and Obama’s declines. Remember, though, these are mostly perceptions still, and Palin will have to give long interviews, do debates, lecture, write, and show a public grasp of the issues in the way that earlier charismatic, non-career politicians like Eisenhower and Reagan could—in contrast to flash in the pans like a Wesley Clark. For 2008 and much of 2009 the left and the media successfully caricatured her as a creationist, white-supremacist, Christianist nut, but that demonization is wearing off. Quite simply, the more the public sees her, the more it likes her—and that’s not true of most politicians like a Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid—or Barack Obama.

FP: Can you expand a bit on what is it that the liberal-Left hates so much about Palin?

Hanson: Well, well, let us count the ways:

1) Feminists resent her stance on abortion, not just her pro-life views, but the fact she delivered a challenged child in her 40s and her teen-daughter delivered an out of wedlock boy; for many professional women on the up and up, those decisions are not just absurd but scary.

2) The elite Left was furious over her populist appeal, particularly her charm, good looks, accent, and appearance. In sum, their view was “don’t hoi polloi know, as we do, that this glitzy thing is a moose-hunting mom with an Idaho BA? To a Maureen Dowd or Sally Qunin, a Christian mom, who hunts, lives in Alaska, and is married to Todd is OK—but not OK if she thinks she can come east and run their US.

3) She’s an interloper outside the normal cursus honorum. Almost all our female columnists, many of our politicians, and several of our TV personalities either married into, or were born into, influence and can trace some of their careers to the wealth or influence of powerful husbands, fathers, and mentors. Not Palin—she had no family or marital connections, no money, no powerful fixer, she’s a genuine up-from-the-bootstraps sort of feminist that, oddly, feminists don’t define as feminist.

4) Conservative, attractive women, with traditional marriages and child-raising, for a variety of reasons, earn media scorn;

4) She scares the Left by her star power; few in America can fill stadia like she can—and that worries the powers that be. Populism is supposed to be a leftist phenomenon, but when a conservative resonates with the folks, that raises concern.

5) Finally, her accent, her demeanor, her poorly prepared interviews with Couric and Gibson all cemented for many intellectuals and cultural grandeess, both left and right, the idea that she was hickish. Many tsk-tsked her in snobbish disdain.

FP: What do you think of Palin?

Hanson: I both admire and worry about her. She has exuberance and natural intelligence, coupled with energy and toughness and a certain fearlessness, and doesn’t seem to be a trimmer, but consistently articulates a common-sense position on the issues. On the other hand, she has so many obstacles in a strictly political sense to overcome. She is based thousands of miles away from New York and Washington. She is the mother of 5 and has little money, or powerful friends. The East-Coast Right dislikes her as much as the liberal elite. With young children, the Levi Johnston mess, the resignation from the governorship, the constant traveling to earn an income for her large dependencies, she is burning the candle at both ends. So I admire her pluck, but again worry that her present frenzied pace is unsustainable.

FP: What advice would you give to Palin?

Hanson: After her book tour ends and she has earned some money, I wish she would hunker down somewhere to write, recharge and contemplate things. A month at Hillsdale College, for example, where, in friendly and supportive surroundings, she could debate, talk to faculty, read and write would be wonderful, or in fact a month almost anywhere she could review issues, have her views tested and debated, and do some in depth reading and discussion would be great.

If she wrote a weekly column or did a bi-weekly radio address, in the fashion of Reagan, that too would allow her to both support her family and at the same time master the intricacies of modern national politics. She has so many gunning for her, that she needs to be proactive. Joe Biden did not know that FDR was not President in 1929 or that TV was still experimental—but given his status, the media shucked “Oh, that’s just Joe!” Obama can be clueless about state geography, a 50-state union, or the basics of US history, but that’s because “he’s tired and has so much on his mind.” Wasilla moms has no such margin of error.

The good news is that she is so energetic, naturally talented, and charismatic, that, with a few weeks prep, she could redo the Couric interview and sparkle. What happened in 2008, was that she went from a supportive populace in Alaska to a hostile prime-time lion’s den, without proper appreciation that she was the antithesis of most of the values and lifestyles of those who would write and comment on her—and they were waiting for her in a way I think she did not anticipate. That said, I think we can already see that she is becoming media-savvy and picking her venues carefully.

FP: Victor Hanson, thank you for joining Frontpage Interview.
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 11:23 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Luckily we have Sarah Palin to save us in 2012 .
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846942


Hehe. Yeah, thank God for that!
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 11:35 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
"New reports on Sarah Palin's 'Going Rogue' bus tour. They say she's been traveling on private planes to various stops and then just hops in the bus at the local town. So, let's see what you got. You have Sarah Palin, who's no longer governor, who's promoting a book she didn't actually write by going on a bus tour which is not really a bus. Her big complaint? Politicians who aren't real."
~Jay Leno
Art Deco

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12/22/2009 11:43 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.
 Quoting: DaJavoo


I'm hopin' you're right.

I'd love to have them ALL booted out, and get some folks who will actually do, you know, what we sent them to do.

And if they don't, we kick their asses out too.

Eventually, they'll get the hint
In ten years we'll look back on this moment, laugh nervously, and quickly change the subject.
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 11:53 AM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
"New reports on Sarah Palin's 'Going Rogue' bus tour. They say she's been traveling on private planes to various stops and then just hops in the bus at the local town. So, let's see what you got. You have Sarah Palin, who's no longer governor, who's promoting a book she didn't actually write by going on a bus tour which is not really a bus. Her big complaint? Politicians who aren't real."
~Jay Leno
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 847040


Hehe. Yeah, I think the comedians are thankful that she has stuck around for awhile....to help fill the void left by W's departure. She seems to be a perpetual source of material for them every time she opens her mouth or "writes" something.
DaJavoo  (OP)

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12/22/2009 12:13 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.


I'm hopin' you're right.

I'd love to have them ALL booted out, and get some folks who will actually do, you know, what we sent them to do.

And if they don't, we kick their asses out too.

Eventually, they'll get the hint
 Quoting: Art Deco


I'm for Congressional service to be like jury duty ~ with just a per diem, and a small one at that.

The business of the nation would be concluded in a short hurry so folks could get back to earnin' a living.

:DJrebelli:
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 12:19 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Somehow, I'm thinking that regardless the money, the incumbents are out of work next November.


I'm hopin' you're right.

I'd love to have them ALL booted out, and get some folks who will actually do, you know, what we sent them to do.

And if they don't, we kick their asses out too.

Eventually, they'll get the hint


I'm for Congressional service to be like jury duty ~ with just a per diem, and a small one at that.

The business of the nation would be concluded in a short hurry so folks could get back to earnin' a living.

 Quoting: DaJavoo



Hehe. So now you're in favor of expediting the legislative process.

I wish you guys would make up your minds as to which is the better way to proceed.
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 12:22 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
"Democratic Congress rejected Hillary Clinton's health care plan in 1994"

I believe the Republicans bribed Hillary (~$800,000.00) to stop pushing for healthcare reform back when Bill Clinton was president. That fact was highlighted in the movie Sicko.
Anonymous Coward
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12/22/2009 12:54 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
That's not much money to buy the President's wife.
Aquarius 7

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12/22/2009 01:09 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
Telling a center-right nation to sit down and shut up isn't going to work.
. .


Exactly!
 Quoting: Fantasia II

. .

+2

. .
.

Cayce: “… The greater portion of Japan must go into the sea. …. then we may know it has begun …”. www.near-death.com/experiences/cayce11.html
.
"Be kind, for everyone you know is fighting a hard battle" - Plato
.
"Those who are at peace in their hearts already are in the Great Shelter of life." ~ Hopi Prophecy
.
Sinanju2

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12/22/2009 02:26 PM
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Re: When Liberal Dreams Collide With Public Opinion
That's not much money to buy the President's wife.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 846518


>>You should see what he charged for his interns!
I don't do book reports, I don't sort the wheat from the chaff but I will discuss the topic of your ignorance if I'm asked. -MC Frontalot

“But make no mistake, BP is operating at our direction...” -Barry Obammy





GLP