Supreme Court to Hear Case of Hirmer v. United States: Is the Income Tax a Massive Fraud? | |
watchdog (OP) User ID: 466967 United States 01/13/2010 09:24 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yes, as through this world I've wandered I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen. And as through your life you travel, Yes, as through your life you roam, You won't never see an outlaw Drive a family from their home. |
watchdog (OP) User ID: 466967 United States 01/13/2010 09:47 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Yes, as through this world I've wandered I've seen lots of funny men; Some will rob you with a six-gun, And some with a fountain pen. And as through your life you travel, Yes, as through your life you roam, You won't never see an outlaw Drive a family from their home. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 859446 United States 01/13/2010 09:51 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
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Cy Kotic User ID: 850798 United States 01/13/2010 09:56 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Too much money involved and the powers that be aren't known for allowing these types of things to even hint at threatening their status quo I'm just another freak in this never-ending cosmic freak show |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 864434 United States 01/13/2010 10:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | 16th amendment changed nothing-non taxable before and not taxable after-as per Supreme court ruling.(8 supreme court rulings) 16th amendment either way was never ratified. Income is not wages, it's capital gains.Illegal to tax wages. We have the god-given right to earn a living just as we have to excercise our freedom of speech. There is no law requiring anyone to pay a direct unapportioned tax on their wages. Master has the guns and the dogs,the beast has sharp talons. Income tax is slavery. Educate yourself. Freedom to Facism on youtube. Truth Attack.org-Tom Cryer |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 767352 United States 01/17/2010 03:13 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | any news yet? Quoting: NightWispFollow the Supreme Court Docket system [link to www.supremecourtus.gov] No. 09-651 Title: Claudia Constance Hirmer and Mark Steven Hirmer, Petitioners v. United States Docketed: December 4, 2009 Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Case Nos.: (09-15041) Decision Date: November 6, 2009 ~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nov 30 2009 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due January 4, 2010) Dec 14 2009 Waiver of right of respondent United States to respond filed. Dec 23 2009 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of January 15, 2010. ~~Name~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~~~~~~Address~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ ~~Phone~~~ Attorneys for Petitioners: Lowell H. Becraft Jr. 403-C Andrew Jackson Way (256) 533-2535 Huntsville, AL 35801 Party name: Claudia Constance Hirmer and Mark Steven Hirmer Attorneys for Respondent: Elena Kagan Solicitor General (202) 514-2217 United States Department of Justice 950 Pennsylvania Avenue, N.W. Washington, DC 20530-0001 [email protected] Party name: United States |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 867071 United States 01/17/2010 03:38 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
KnowTruth User ID: 867073 United States 01/17/2010 03:41 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 767352 United States 01/17/2010 04:55 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 856028 Hong Kong 01/17/2010 05:01 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Lowell Becraft, the best of the best Quoting: Anonymous Coward 767352I'm going to guess he's not going to get a hearing from the supreme court. Do you think a rally of a million-plus people might exert any force of moral persuasion? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 866300 United States 01/17/2010 05:35 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | And yes, we all know the income tax is complete bullshit. That's why I live in Nevada and work as a poker dealer. I pay crazy-low taxes here. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 852627 United States 01/17/2010 06:23 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | I'm going to guess he's not going to get a hearing from the supreme court. Quoting: Anonymous Coward 767352Yes, they will hear it, because they are 14th Amendment citizens and will loose big time. "Freedom belongs to the belligerent claimant in their own person" They don't have a leg to stand upon because he is not claiming their inherent Rights. He is relying on caselaw only and does not know how to. "Rights do not devolve to a body politic (or a member thereof) through a corporation". Lowell Becraft, the best of the best Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867071Best my ass I have seen Becraft loose big time too. |
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Anonymous Coward User ID: 869678 United States 01/20/2010 07:42 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | No. 09-651 Title: Claudia Constance Hirmer and Mark Steven Hirmer, Petitioners v. United States Docketed: December 4, 2009 Lower Ct: United States Court of Appeals for the Eleventh Circuit Case Nos.: (09-15041) Decision Date: November 6, 2009 ~~~Date~~~ ~~~~~~~Proceedings and Orders~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Nov 30 2009 Petition for a writ of certiorari filed. (Response due January 4, 2010) Dec 14 2009 Waiver of right of respondent United States to respond filed. Dec 23 2009 DISTRIBUTED for Conference of January 15, 2010. Jan 19 2010 Petition DENIED. |
really thats it ? User ID: 1133729 United States 10/17/2010 10:50 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Really thats it ? people have been chasing this since 1984, and now it all built up to being beat by the gov't on the 19th by refusing to hear the case ? Now what, did the Hermers go to jail for 100+ years or what happened ? |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 1133443 United States 10/17/2010 11:05 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Thanks OP for the heads up will go check this out. |
The Professor User ID: 660063 United States 10/18/2010 01:08 AM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | My guess is the Supremes won't hear this case. Quoting: Cy KoticToo much money involved and the powers that be aren't known for allowing these types of things to even hint at threatening their status quo The Supreme Court may hear the case, but the case will have nothing to do with the legitimacy of the Federal Income Tax. The authority to impose such a tax has already been upheld in the strongest language by the highest court in the land. This case will be about whether someone can be committed of fraud because they sold information falsely promising to show others how to lawfully evade paying taxes. The defendants may attempt to show that they THOUGHT the tax was illegal and thus avoid the charge of fraud. However, their defense will be nullified by one of the oldest and best known rules in all of law: Ignorance of the law is no excuse. Here is the gist of OP's article: "What they did was sell tickets to attend a several day seminar where people, just like you, peacefully assembled to hear speakers on a wide variety of topics. One such topic was the 17,000 official, certified, national and state documents that conclusively prove the income tax is a massive fraud. "What they are charged with is conspiracy to defraud the government, conspiracy to commit wire fraud, conspiracy to commit money laundering, wire fraud, and income tax evasion. Conviction could result in more than a hundred years in prison." The Income Tax is legal if the Supreme Court says is is legal and the SCOTUS has so spoken. The people who sold tickets were either incredibly ignorant or they are guilty of fraud in every sense of the word. They sold a worthless product since they knew or should have know that the Income Tax is a legal obligation. By encouraging others to break the law, they are also guilty of conspiracy to defraud the government. I would bet that they did not declare the money they made from ticket sales on their tax return, and that, my friends, is yet another crime. Please, everyone, accept the fact that the SCOTUS is the SUPREME law of the land and they have ruled the Income Tax is legal. There is no more dispute on this issue. Some people say that the tax was never ratified by the states as required, but his defense is meaningless because the SCOTUS says the tax has been properly ratified. There is no appeal from the Supreme Court's decision, not to any other court, nor even to GLP. These tax cheating assholes - and that is exactly what they are - deserve to go to jail. God knows how many lives they would have ruined or have already ruined by their bullshit. Those who post this same crap on GLP are not helping anyone. In fact, they are exposing others to economic ruin and possible criminal charges. In conclusion: The Income Tax is legal because the SCOTUS says it is, and it will be legal until such time as the SCOTUS reverses itself (which they rarely do). If you want to be the next test case, go for it. Just be aware that there are consequences if you guess wrong. I will give others the last word. I'm outta here. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20901334 United States 10/21/2012 09:46 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Selling the tickets placed them in the commerce clause, they received Federal Reserve Notes for talkign about the Federal Reserve ..... thats just not the way to do it ... Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358 You got that exactly right, engaging in commerce with commercial instruments. Not a good combination. Also, only authorized agents of the Federal Reserve are allowed to use Federal Reserve Notes. Demand lawful money per 12 USC 411 for all actions and in all actions. No contract with the FED, no case. |
Anonymous Coward User ID: 20901334 United States 10/21/2012 10:11 PM Report Abusive Post Report Copyright Violation | Does anybody here really think that the SCOTUS is going vote constitutionally? It's like asking them to accept less money for all of their "hard work". It's a dog and pony show to supress any possible escape from our slavery. Quoting: Chip They are under no obligation to do so, its not like they can lose their jobs if they do or not, so why would they go against the ones who pay them and their retirement? Judicial immunity is bullcrap. |