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There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History

 
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 02:56 PM
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There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:


ZTE

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01/25/2010 02:57 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
You can't be forced to do anything. You always have a choice. However, usually that choice either gets you killed or lands you in jail.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 02:59 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Forced Conscription - The Draft. So, yes, there has been.
Redbad

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01/25/2010 03:02 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240


Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:03 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Washington has never been our friend.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:04 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:



 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240


Are you seriously claiming that if a guy receives a draft notice and turns up at a recruitment/induction centre, he can then refuse to sign on to the military, and just walk out, without any legal repercussions?

damned
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 03:12 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot
 Quoting: Redbad


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:13 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Forced Conscription - The Draft. So, yes, there has been.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 125715


That is voluntary, stepping forward and taking the oath is a voluntary act
Redbad

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01/25/2010 03:14 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:14 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:





Are you seriously claiming that if a guy receives a draft notice and turns up at a recruitment/induction centre, he can then refuse to sign on to the military, and just walk out, without any legal repercussions?

damned
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873812


With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:15 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.
 Quoting: Redbad


You could not refuse to join because it seems to be a persona thing with you.

However, anyone else who didn't want to , does not have to.

All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:17 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:





Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot.
 Quoting: Redbad


Yes it is you singed up for it and voluntarily took a oath.

In reality, you were scared to goto jail if you didn't.
ZTE

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01/25/2010 03:18 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Isn't it against the law to refuse to register for the draft? Therefore, aren't you "forced" to register for the draft, even if you don't get drafted?
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
A Jeep filled with soldiers going from house to house grabbing young men from their homes, jamming a rifle into their hands, and sending them to the front would be a forced military conscription. But, this isn't how the U.S. government has filled the military's ranks during the great wars.

The 13th amendment prohibits involuntary servitude. All military inductions in American history have been voluntary, involving oaths of allegiance and enlistment contracts. During times of drafts the draft notification is a subpoena to make an appearance at an induction center, but it isn't a requirement to become enlisted by signing the enlistment contract and taking the oath of allegiance.

If there is a future draft this would be good information of which to be aware:





Are you seriously claiming that if a guy receives a draft notice and turns up at a recruitment/induction centre, he can then refuse to sign on to the military, and just walk out, without any legal repercussions?

damned


With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


Well I listened to the vid, and it seems to make sense.

However, in the real world, has anyone ever done this, and gotten away with it?

You know, without being incarcerated and/or murdered for being a smart-ass?
Redbad

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01/25/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
When you were drafted you were basically given a choice to voluntarily sign up for enlistment or go to jail.


Do you believe every bullshit video you see on the internet?


These Common Law types always say you can do this and that but in the end that doesn't stop the government from seizing their land and throwing them in jail. A group in my area tried pulling crap to avoid taxes, their land was seized and the buildings on it burned to the ground.

Last Edited by Redbad on 01/25/2010 03:23 PM
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 03:21 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Are you seriously claiming that if a guy receives a draft notice and turns up at a recruitment/induction centre, he can then refuse to sign on to the military, and just walk out, without any legal repercussions?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873812


Yes. Make the appearance. Refuse to take the oath or sign the contract. The man in the video, George Gordon, knows a man personally who did this during the Vietnam war. When he stepped away from the oath line and refused to raise his hand to take the oath he was separated from the others and taken to a room where they shouted at him and threatened him for hours. It was a sales pitch that would shame a used car salesman, but he wasn't buying that day. He had no idea what would happen.... thought he would probably go to jail and was prepared for that outcome. He found out it is VOLUNTARY! At five o'clock they sent him home.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:22 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
All washington has to do is deport all the jobs, then print money to pay the troops, the only job available.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:23 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Isn't it against the law to refuse to register for the draft? Therefore, aren't you "forced" to register for the draft, even if you don't get drafted?
 Quoting: ZTE


Actaully, it is contract stipulations you have agreed to, not law. It is not law as that would be slavery.

You have merely agreed to appear the the center. You never agreed to voluntarily step forward, and say a oath.

To force you to do that would negate its effects, you msut voluntarily take the oath so as to make it a lawful process.

Thats the point of a oath ...

Its not enforceable if you force people into it
Rev-bo

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01/25/2010 03:23 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Isn't it against the law to refuse to register for the draft? Therefore, aren't you "forced" to register for the draft, even if you don't get drafted?
 Quoting: ZTE


I don't think you legally have to register for the draft, but by not signing up, you lose the ability to get a government job or loan, among other things.

To the OP, I don't think I've seen you answer the question of what happens if you show up and refuse to take the oath. If you go to jail as a result, I would call that force. Force isn't necessarily physical violence. The threat of prison can be just as coercive as the threat of a serious ass whoopin'.
Rev. 21:4 He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.
Redbad

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01/25/2010 03:24 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Are you seriously claiming that if a guy receives a draft notice and turns up at a recruitment/induction centre, he can then refuse to sign on to the military, and just walk out, without any legal repercussions?


Yes. Make the appearance. Refuse to take the oath or sign the contract. The man in the video, George Gordon, knows a man personally who did this during the Vietnam war. When he stepped away from the oath line and refused to raise his hand to take the oath he was separated from the others and taken to a room where they shouted at him and threatened him for hours. It was a sales pitch that would shame a used car salesman, but he wasn't buying that day. He had no idea what would happen.... thought he would probably go to jail and was prepared for that outcome. He found out it is VOLUNTARY! At five o'clock they sent him home.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240



I think the guy in your video is full of shit.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 03:25 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:26 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
When you were drafted you were basically given a choice to voluntarily sign up for enlistment or go to jail.


Do you believe every bullshit video you see on the internet?


These Common Law types always say you can do this and that but in the end that doesn't stop the government from seizing their land and throwing them in jail. A group in my area tried pulling crap to avoid taxes, their land was seized and the buildings on it burned to the ground.
 Quoting: Redbad


Why are you so scared of your govenrment ?
ZTE

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01/25/2010 03:27 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Isn't it against the law to refuse to register for the draft? Therefore, aren't you "forced" to register for the draft, even if you don't get drafted?


I don't think you legally have to register for the draft, but by not signing up, you lose the ability to get a government job or loan, among other things.

To the OP, I don't think I've seen you answer the question of what happens if you show up and refuse to take the oath. If you go to jail as a result, I would call that force. Force isn't necessarily physical violence. The threat of prison can be just as coercive as the threat of a serious ass whoopin'.
 Quoting: Rev-bo



Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison. In addition, men who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26, even if not prosecuted, will become ineligible for:

* Student Financial Aid - including Pell Grants, College Work Study, Guaranteed Student/Plus Loans, and National Direct Student Loans.
* U.S. Citizenship - if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.
* Federal Job Training - The Job Training Partnership Act (JTPA) offers programs that can train young men for jobs in auto mechanics and other skills. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service.
* Federal Jobs - men born after December 31, 1959 must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal government and the U.S. Postal Service.


Sounds like a law to me.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
Redbad

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01/25/2010 03:27 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240



You will be get a rude awakening if you try pulling this crap in the real world. See what happens if you try avoiding paying property taxes by creating your own county with a group of like minded people. Your land will be seized and you will be thrown in jail.
Bluebird

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01/25/2010 03:30 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.



You will be get a rude awakening if you try pulling this crap in the real world. See what happens if you try avoiding paying property taxes by creating your own county with a group of like minded people. Your land will be seized and you will be thrown in jail.
 Quoting: Redbad



Right, same with that "voluntary income tax business." I know of people who died in prison for tax evasion.
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Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

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Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:32 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.



You will be get a rude awakening if you try pulling this crap in the real world. See what happens if you try avoiding paying property taxes by creating your own county with a group of like minded people. Your land will be seized and you will be thrown in jail.
 Quoting: Redbad


But that's good absolutely nothing to do with the Constitution's prohibition on involuntary servitude, now, has it?
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01/25/2010 03:32 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison. In addition, men who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26, even if not prosecuted, will become ineligible for:

* Student Financial Aid - including Pell Grants, College Work Study, Guaranteed Student/Plus Loans, and National Direct Student Loans.
* U.S. Citizenship - if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.
* Federal Job Training - The Job Training Partnership Act (JTPA) offers programs that can train young men for jobs in auto mechanics and other skills. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service.
* Federal Jobs - men born after December 31, 1959 must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal government and the U.S. Postal Service.

Sounds like a law to me.
 Quoting: ZTE


You can send in that card BUT you can also have restrictions on that card.

When we sent my sons card in, we wrote conscientous objector across the front of it & sent it certified mail, return receipt requested since those kind of card have a tendency to come up missing. We got the return receipt back signed & dated by the person who got it. So its on the record that he is a conscientous objector & will NOT sign up for the military.
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Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:32 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Isn't it against the law to refuse to register for the draft? Therefore, aren't you "forced" to register for the draft, even if you don't get drafted?


I don't think you legally have to register for the draft, but by not signing up, you lose the ability to get a government job or loan, among other things.

To the OP, I don't think I've seen you answer the question of what happens if you show up and refuse to take the oath. If you go to jail as a result, I would call that force. Force isn't necessarily physical violence. The threat of prison can be just as coercive as the threat of a serious ass whoopin'.



Men who do not register could be prosecuted and, if convicted, fined up to $250,000 and/or serve up to five years in prison. In addition, men who fail to register with Selective Service before turning age 26, even if not prosecuted, will become ineligible for:

* Student Financial Aid - including Pell Grants, College Work Study, Guaranteed Student/Plus Loans, and National Direct Student Loans.
* U.S. Citizenship - if the man first arrived in the U.S. before his 26th birthday.
* Federal Job Training - The Job Training Partnership Act (JTPA) offers programs that can train young men for jobs in auto mechanics and other skills. This program is only open to those men who register with Selective Service.
* Federal Jobs - men born after December 31, 1959 must be registered to be eligible for jobs in the Executive Branch of the Federal government and the U.S. Postal Service.


Sounds like a law to me.
 Quoting: ZTE


Looks like it says registers ...

Says nothing about being drafted and taking an oath.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:32 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.



You will be get a rude awakening if you try pulling this crap in the real world. See what happens if you try avoiding paying property taxes by creating your own county with a group of like minded people. Your land will be seized and you will be thrown in jail.


But that's good absolutely nothing to do with the Constitution's prohibition on involuntary servitude, now, has it?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 873812


good = got

Sheesh!
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:35 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
With all due respect to force you to sign the contract negates the contract ... why do they need a contract if they could just force you ?


Exactly correct. This knowledge could very well help yourself or someone you know in the future. That's why I've posted it here.



You will be get a rude awakening if you try pulling this crap in the real world. See what happens if you try avoiding paying property taxes by creating your own county with a group of like minded people. Your land will be seized and you will be thrown in jail.
 Quoting: Redbad


Typical shill
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 03:35 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Bill Cooper confirmed what the OP's saying on his radio show years ago.

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