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There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History

 
Bluebird

User ID: 730536
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01/25/2010 04:54 PM

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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Quote:

Legal issues
Although the Selective Service System is authorized by the Selective Service Act, the Constitutionality has been disputed over the years.

The act has been challenged in light of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits "involuntary servitude."[26]

This, however, has not been supported by the courts; as the Supreme Court stated in Butler v. Perry (1916):

The amendment was adopted with reference to conditions existing since the foundation of our government, and the term 'involuntary servitude' was intended to cover those forms of compulsory labor akin to African slavery which, in practical operation, would tend to produce like undesirable results. It introduced no novel doctrine with respect of services always treated as exceptional, and certainly was not intended to interdict enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc.[27]
During the First World War, the Supreme Court ruled in Arver v. United States (1918) that draft did not violate the United States Constitution.[28]

Later, during the Vietnam War, a lower appellate court also concluded that the draft was Constitutional in United States v. Holmes (1968).[


I agree. The requirement to make an appearance, the draft, is constitutional. It does not violate the 13th amendment. What the Supreme Court has never ruled on is whether the oath and contract may be compelled. I didn't read the specifics of each of the cases you cited but I doubt any of them involved the circumstances to refusing the oath and contract. My guess is such a case will never be granted certiorari by the Supreme Court because the cat would then be forever out of the bag.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240




No, the draft does not refer to just making an appearance. It refers to:

CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT AUTHORIZE A DRAFT
A crisis occurs which requires more troops than the volunteer military can supply. Congress passes and the President signs legislation which starts a draft.

Rest of the procedure at:

[link to www.sss.gov]


There is the right of appeal of status but once classified suitable for service, the rest is not optional.

And I am sure you will also recall that those who left the country to avoid the draft had to re-enter as aliens? Many states would not grant drivers' license either.

But I have seen nothing here that supports the premise that there has never in the history of this country been conscription. I guess you could say not if a person is willing to go to jail instead.

They can lock you up but they can't eat you sort of mentality.

Whatever. . .I just hate to see people told they can avoid the law so easily like this then get into trouble like that couple who believed this line about income tax that are in the process of being sentenced to federal prison. Someone's "guess" is far from enough criteria on which to base life-altering decisions.
One of the most important aspects of conspiracy theories is being able to discern when there isn't one.

Oh yeah, like you'd understand anyway.

Where are we going and why am I in this handbasket?. . .J. Handy
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 04:59 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Forced Conscription - The Draft. So, yes, there has been.


That is voluntary, stepping forward and taking the oath is a voluntary act
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


Read the other posts. Unvolunteer yourself, outside of specific circumstances, and see what happens to you. Get back to us afterward.
ABO

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01/25/2010 04:59 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.


You could not refuse to join because it seems to be a persona thing with you.

However, anyone else who didn't want to , does not have to.

All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....

The way to fight it is by taking a principled stand and face the consequences like a man.

Last Edited by ExAmerican on 01/25/2010 05:02 PM
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:03 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Is the OP retarded?
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 05:09 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Too all the folks being drafted weren't informed of this...
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 757939


The state isn't in most circumstances obligated to inform people of their rights. It's expected that a free people know their rights and it is expected they claim them if they wish to exercise them. As the Supreme Court said in one case, rights are maintained by the belligerent claimant in person. They are not something granted us by another or protected by another. They are ours.... if we know them and if we will insist on keeping them.

On the other hand, anyone is free to give up their rights if they choose. Many search and seizure cases document people giving up their right to privacy, voluntarily submitting to a search, and being convicted for possessing some contraband or another, never realizing they had the right to refuse the search.

I've witnessed many people identify themselves to police officers and answer their inquisitions out of fear or ignorance or both.

Most people, however, find it difficult, if not impossible, to resist the "authority" of a badge and uniform, seeing only these and not a person like themselves, tremble in fear before them, and fall all over themselves answering all questions and acquiescing to all demands, never realizing they they are not being compelled, but that they are volunteering.
ABO

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01/25/2010 05:14 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Too all the folks being drafted weren't informed of this...


The state isn't in most circumstances obligated to inform people of their rights. It's expected that a free people know their rights and it is expected they claim them if they wish to exercise them. As the Supreme Court said in one case, rights are maintained by the belligerent claimant in person. They are not something granted us by another or protected by another. They are ours.... if we know them and if we will insist on keeping them.

On the other hand, anyone is free to give up their rights if they choose. Many search and seizure cases document people giving up their right to privacy, voluntarily submitting to a search, and being convicted for possessing some contraband or another, never realizing they had the right to refuse the search.

I've witnessed many people identify themselves to police officers and answer their inquisitions out of fear or ignorance or both.

Most people, however, find it difficult, if not impossible, to resist the "authority" of a badge and uniform, seeing only these and not a person like themselves, tremble in fear before them, and fall all over themselves answering all questions and acquiescing to all demands, never realizing they they are not being compelled, but that they are volunteering.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240


No one is volunteering when drafted. Hell, most in active duty today are no longer volunteering. Did you know the Soviet Union had more protections under its Constitution than Americans have under theirs? Just goes to show how stupid your argument is...
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:16 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Forced Conscription - The Draft. So, yes, there has been.


That is voluntary, stepping forward and taking the oath is a voluntary act


Read the other posts. Unvolunteer yourself, outside of specific circumstances, and see what happens to you. Get back to us afterward.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 125715


Your post makes no sense ...
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:17 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Too all the folks being drafted weren't informed of this...


The state isn't in most circumstances obligated to inform people of their rights. It's expected that a free people know their rights and it is expected they claim them if they wish to exercise them. As the Supreme Court said in one case, rights are maintained by the belligerent claimant in person. They are not something granted us by another or protected by another. They are ours.... if we know them and if we will insist on keeping them.

On the other hand, anyone is free to give up their rights if they choose. Many search and seizure cases document people giving up their right to privacy, voluntarily submitting to a search, and being convicted for possessing some contraband or another, never realizing they had the right to refuse the search.

I've witnessed many people identify themselves to police officers and answer their inquisitions out of fear or ignorance or both.

Most people, however, find it difficult, if not impossible, to resist the "authority" of a badge and uniform, seeing only these and not a person like themselves, tremble in fear before them, and fall all over themselves answering all questions and acquiescing to all demands, never realizing they they are not being compelled, but that they are volunteering.


No one is volunteering when drafted. Hell, most in active duty today are no longer volunteering. Did you know the Soviet Union had more protections under its Constitution than Americans have under theirs? Just goes to show how stupid your argument is...
 Quoting: ABO


Its very voluntary just like your Social Security Number.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.


You could not refuse to join because it seems to be a persona thing with you.

However, anyone else who didn't want to , does not have to.

All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.


And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....

The way to fight it is by taking a principled stand and face the consequences like a man.
 Quoting: ABO


You signed a contract to appear there what does your little brain not understand aobut that?

you must live upto your contracts.

You never contracted to take a voluntary oath ... that is voluntary.

Why do you feel you are a slave ?
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 791743
United States
01/25/2010 05:23 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.
ABO

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01/25/2010 05:23 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
No one is volunteering when drafted. Hell, most in active duty today are no longer volunteering. Did you know the Soviet Union had more protections under its Constitution than Americans have under theirs? Just goes to show how stupid your argument is...


Its very voluntary just like your Social Security Number.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


You have to organize with other like minded individuals to resist the draft -- otherwise you will be separated and punished. Individual rights do not exist under State O-PPRESSION....
ABO

User ID: 869145
Mexico
01/25/2010 05:25 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.


You could not refuse to join because it seems to be a persona thing with you.

However, anyone else who didn't want to , does not have to.

All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.


And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....

The way to fight it is by taking a principled stand and face the consequences like a man.


You signed a contract to appear there what does your little brain not understand aobut that?

you must live upto your contracts.

You never contracted to take a voluntary oath ... that is voluntary.

Why do you feel you are a slave ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


I never signed a contract to appear for processing to involuntary servitude. Did you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA Dumb ass.

Last Edited by ExAmerican on 01/25/2010 05:26 PM
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 810358
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01/25/2010 05:27 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Quote:

Legal issues
Although the Selective Service System is authorized by the Selective Service Act, the Constitutionality has been disputed over the years.

The act has been challenged in light of the Thirteenth Amendment to the United States Constitution of the U.S. Constitution which prohibits "involuntary servitude."[26]

This, however, has not been supported by the courts; as the Supreme Court stated in Butler v. Perry (1916):

The amendment was adopted with reference to conditions existing since the foundation of our government, and the term 'involuntary servitude' was intended to cover those forms of compulsory labor akin to African slavery which, in practical operation, would tend to produce like undesirable results. It introduced no novel doctrine with respect of services always treated as exceptional, and certainly was not intended to interdict enforcement of those duties which individuals owe to the state, such as services in the army, militia, on the jury, etc.[27]
During the First World War, the Supreme Court ruled in Arver v. United States (1918) that draft did not violate the United States Constitution.[28]

Later, during the Vietnam War, a lower appellate court also concluded that the draft was Constitutional in United States v. Holmes (1968).[


I agree. The requirement to make an appearance, the draft, is constitutional. It does not violate the 13th amendment. What the Supreme Court has never ruled on is whether the oath and contract may be compelled. I didn't read the specifics of each of the cases you cited but I doubt any of them involved the circumstances to refusing the oath and contract. My guess is such a case will never be granted certiorari by the Supreme Court because the cat would then be forever out of the bag.




No, the draft does not refer to just making an appearance. It refers to:

CONGRESS AND THE PRESIDENT AUTHORIZE A DRAFT
A crisis occurs which requires more troops than the volunteer military can supply. Congress passes and the President signs legislation which starts a draft.

Rest of the procedure at:

[link to www.sss.gov]


There is the right of appeal of status but once classified suitable for service, the rest is not optional.

And I am sure you will also recall that those who left the country to avoid the draft had to re-enter as aliens? Many states would not grant drivers' license either.

But I have seen nothing here that supports the premise that there has never in the history of this country been conscription. I guess you could say not if a person is willing to go to jail instead.

They can lock you up but they can't eat you sort of mentality.

Whatever. . .I just hate to see people told they can avoid the law so easily like this then get into trouble like that couple who believed this line about income tax that are in the process of being sentenced to federal prison. Someone's "guess" is far from enough criteria on which to base life-altering decisions.
 Quoting: Bluebird


If you have ever read the constitution you wouldn't have used that example.

Art 1, Section 8, Clause 18
"To exercise exclusive Legislation in all Cases whatsoever, over such District (not exceeding ten Miles square) as may, by Cession of Particular States, and the Acceptance of Congress, become the Seat of the Government of the United States, and to exercise like Authority over all Places purchased by the Consent of the Legislature of the State in which the Same shall be, for the Erection of Forts, Magazines, Arsenals, dock-Yards, and other needful Buildings;--"

You didn't tell me you were a fedral citizen ... sorry than yes you must obey.

:)
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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United States
01/25/2010 05:27 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Thank you. I believe it. Good to know. It's how TPTB work. Deception and intimidation.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 806723


You're welcome. Deception and intimidation are key. Deception is dispelled with education and intimidation becomes inert in the face of courage.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:29 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot


I didn't say one word about ignoring a draft notice by failing to make an appearance. The draft notification is a notice to appear.... that is ALL! It is NOT a requirement to take the oath and sign an enlistment contract once one makes the appearance. Both of these are voluntary. Sadly, most don't understand this and don't realize it is a fantastic pressure sales pitch which they have every right to decline without penalty.

Did you bother to listen to the explanation in the 4 minute youtube video?



You could not refuse to join. And no I didn't watch your video because it is a waste of time.


You could not refuse to join because it seems to be a persona thing with you.

However, anyone else who didn't want to , does not have to.

All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.


And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....

The way to fight it is by taking a principled stand and face the consequences like a man.


You signed a contract to appear there what does your little brain not understand aobut that?

you must live upto your contracts.

You never contracted to take a voluntary oath ... that is voluntary.

Why do you feel you are a slave ?


I never signed a contract to appear for processing to involuntary servitude. Did you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA Dumb ass.
 Quoting: ABO


Well if you signed the contract is wouldn't be involuntary would it asshole ?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:31 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
No one is volunteering when drafted. Hell, most in active duty today are no longer volunteering. Did you know the Soviet Union had more protections under its Constitution than Americans have under theirs? Just goes to show how stupid your argument is...


Its very voluntary just like your Social Security Number.


You have to organize with other like minded individuals to resist the draft -- otherwise you will be separated and punished. Individual rights do not exist under State O-PPRESSION....
 Quoting: ABO


You have the right of contract.

Last time I checkd groups of people don't sign up for the military, or for driver's licenses, or for jobs.

Individuals do that.

FAIL
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:35 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 791743



Can imagine the "crime" of unwillingness to murder the innocent for corporate interests?

I fucking hate this shithole world.

I am never coming back here ever ever ever, to be reincarnated or anything else. Just being forced to be born here is complete reparation for anything you ever did. Being forced to live with the monkey retards that make up 90% of the population is punishment enough.
ABO

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01/25/2010 05:37 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
No one is volunteering when drafted. Hell, most in active duty today are no longer volunteering. Did you know the Soviet Union had more protections under its Constitution than Americans have under theirs? Just goes to show how stupid your argument is...


Its very voluntary just like your Social Security Number.


You have to organize with other like minded individuals to resist the draft -- otherwise you will be separated and punished. Individual rights do not exist under State O-PPRESSION....


You have the right of contract.

Last time I checkd groups of people don't sign up for the military, or for driver's licenses, or for jobs.

Individuals do that.

FAIL
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


You have PO-LICE smashing in your door,,, you have to go underground or you go to jail,,,

You are forgetting about the power of the State to not only ignore your so called rights, but to force you to comply....
Nine's
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01/25/2010 05:42 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.



Can imagine the "crime" of unwillingness to murder the innocent for corporate interests?

I fucking hate this shithole world.

I am never coming back here ever ever ever, to be reincarnated or anything else. Just being forced to be born here is complete reparation for anything you ever did. Being forced to live with the monkey retards that make up 90% of the population is punishment enough.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 769657



The real irony is that neither of them can ever own guns because they are felons. Nice rant, btw. lol
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 05:42 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 791743


Did either of those 2 heed the call of the president and make the required appearance at the induction center?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:43 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
ye weren't there. i was. the draft was not voluntary. jail was the option. ye could do jail time instead of serving, some did. and if they drug ye out of yer house and shoved a rifle in yer hand ye could refuse. they'd shoot ye, but some would do that. the point being, the draft was not "volunteering". it was coercion.
ABO

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01/25/2010 05:46 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.

----
And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....
---

You signed a contract to appear...

you must live upto your contracts.

You never contracted to take a voluntary oath ... that is voluntary.
----

I never signed a contract to appear for processing to involuntary servitude. Did you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA Dumb ass.

---
Well if you signed the contract is wouldn't be involuntary would it asshole ?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 810358


Why sign a contract to appear for recruitment? Why register for the draft? Why work? Why have a bank account? Why drive? Why take up residency? Most will lose these privileges if they dont integrate into society. Fact is you should never ever use your real name, but work and live with an illegal name from the beginning, and when you need to hide use your legal name. But to fight against the draft assuming the State has no rights over you is naive to the extreme,,,
Nine's
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01/25/2010 05:49 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.


Did either of those 2 heed the call of the president and make the required appearance at the induction center?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240

The way I understand it, they did everything required of them until time to take the oath, then they refused. Then they were taken to jail, a court date set, and they were convicted. Seems like he said they were free on bond until court, but after that, they went to prison.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 05:52 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.


Did either of those 2 heed the call of the president and make the required appearance at the induction center?

The way I understand it, they did everything required of them until time to take the oath, then they refused. Then they were taken to jail, a court date set, and they were convicted. Seems like he said they were free on bond until court, but after that, they went to prison.
 Quoting: Nine's 791743

Correction to bolded part. He may have refused to sign, don't remember if it was the oath, or the signing, but I know everything was done the way it was expected, until the final requirement which would have violated their conscience.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 06:06 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
All you have to do is appear at the recruitment center ... thats all you agreed to do.

----
And if you refuse to go to the recruitment center? Your logic is flawed. The draft equals conscription equals involuntary servitude....
---

You signed a contract to appear...

you must live upto your contracts.

You never contracted to take a voluntary oath ... that is voluntary.
----

I never signed a contract to appear for processing to involuntary servitude. Did you? BWAHAHAHAHAHA Dumb ass.

---
Well if you signed the contract is wouldn't be involuntary would it asshole ?


Why sign a contract to appear for recruitment? Why register for the draft? Why work? Why have a bank account? Why drive? Why take up residency? Most will lose these privileges if they dont integrate into society. Fact is you should never ever use your real name, but work and live with an illegal name from the beginning, and when you need to hide use your legal name. But to fight against the draft assuming the State has no rights over you is naive to the extreme,,,
 Quoting: ABO


What is the difference betwen a legal name and a true name ?

Its a benefit to use the former.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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01/25/2010 06:08 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.


Did either of those 2 heed the call of the president and make the required appearance at the induction center?

The way I understand it, they did everything required of them until time to take the oath, then they refused. Then they were taken to jail, a court date set, and they were convicted. Seems like he said they were free on bond until court, but after that, they went to prison.

Correction to bolded part. He may have refused to sign, don't remember if it was the oath, or the signing, but I know everything was done the way it was expected, until the final requirement which would have violated their conscience.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 791743


Thanks for the additional background information. According to the link Redbad provided:

[link to www.thirdworldtraveler.com]

"It is the act of stepping forward that constitutes induction. Contrary to popular belief, taking the oath of induction occurs after induction, and refusing to take the oath is punishable under military law, since you are already in the military by that time."

The author recommends

"If you plan to refuse induction, you should not step forward when your name is called. Just to make sure that there is no question about it, you should also say out loud that you refuse induction."

In the account I'm aware of the person stepped backward and to the left.

Also, I'm curious. Did the two you know defend? Or, did they plead guilty?
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 06:11 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
While that was a higher number than in any year since 1945, only 34.8% were convicted, and of those convicted only 36% were sent to prison. So, only about 13% of 1t2 he court cases resulted in a person being sent to prison.

Wow. I know two of that 13%. One of them served 5 years in prison.


Did either of those 2 heed the call of the president and make the required appearance at the induction center?

The way I understand it, they did everything required of them until time to take the oath, then they refused. Then they were taken to jail, a court date set, and they were convicted. Seems like he said they were free on bond until court, but after that, they went to prison.

Correction to bolded part. He may have refused to sign, don't remember if it was the oath, or the signing, but I know everything was done the way it was expected, until the final requirement which would have violated their conscience.


Thanks for the additional background information. According to the link Redbad provided:

[link to www.thirdworldtraveler.com]

"It is the act of stepping forward that constitutes induction. Contrary to popular belief, taking the oath of induction occurs after induction, and refusing to take the oath is punishable under military law, since you are already in the military by that time."

The author recommends

"If you plan to refuse induction, you should not step forward when your name is called. Just to make sure that there is no question about it, you should also say out loud that you refuse induction."

In the account I'm aware of the person stepped backward and to the left.

Also, I'm curious. Did the two you know defend? Or, did they plead guilty?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240


It goes on to say if you dont step forward you will be arrested in most cases. Sometimes people are judged unsuitable and just let go but most will be arrested. Then you will get a court case which you can still beat. It is not a surefire way out of service or jailtime but it is a good way to beat system.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 06:15 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Yes there was forced military conscription in America. You could be sent to jail for ignoring your draft order. That is not voluntary. Idiot.
 Quoting: Redbad


Bzzzzzz.... incorrect answer.

You can be jailed for failure to appear. You can not be jailed for failure to take an oath. You may, however, be then declared as an enemy collaborator (in times of war), tried for treason and sedition, and summarily shot. No jail time needed.
Nine's
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01/25/2010 06:15 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Also, I'm curious. Did the two you know defend? Or, did they plead guilty?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 867240


Sorry, but I don't that info. There were quite a few of them in prison for refusing.They were in Chilocothe
prison in Ohio, and each year they have a "get together" of all the objectors. Don't remember how many, but quite a few.
Anonymous Coward
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01/25/2010 06:16 PM
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Re: There has NEVER been forced military conscription in U.S. History
Don't "know" that info.

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