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how many here have native american blood?

 
aLB
User ID: 870346
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01/27/2010 01:43 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Through my maternal ancestry I am a member of the Yavapai Apache Nation, although I live down here by the Ak-Chin. From my paternal side I have one full blooded Mayan Great grandmother.

So I'm 40% Amerindian and 60% European (German/Spanish/Scottish)

I have very fair skin and light eyes, but still carry the almond shaped eyes, high cheekbones and dark hair. Most people have a hard time figuring out what I am.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 866183


wow.
Resister

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01/27/2010 01:45 PM

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Re: how many here have native american blood?
1/4 Cherokee
1/4 German
1/2 Scottish

= 100% all American Mut and proud of it.
"God forbid we should ever be 20 years without such a rebellion. The people cannot be all, & always, well informed... If they remain quiet under such misconceptions it is a lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty... Let them take arms... What signify a few lives lost in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots & tyrants. " - Thomas Jefferson in 1787
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 01:50 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
I think that the scale of...intermixing (is that what I should call it)...between Native people and people from Europe, Asia and Africa has been greatly overlooked.

I would suggest that it was considerable and that anyone who has been in America, North, South or Central, for more than two hundred years definately has native ancestry.

Furthermore to that...its your native ancestry and your embracing it that is going to save your from the monstrous doctrines and philosophies that found their way across the oceans and to OUR shores.

I'll tell anyone...I don't know a damn thing about Europe, Africa or Asia or their fucking problems...I am American!
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 01:57 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
AmeriKeeScottalian

Card caring Cherokee.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:06 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
...but are you part of the indian nation?

card carying?





Many that could be....don't.
It may be hip to be native american now, but it wasn't 50-100 years ago. You didn't talk about it.


But for those of us who are members of a Nation, you have to see why we carry a certain amount of skepticism when people tell you "Oh I'm Indian too" and of course 99% of the time they claim Cherokee.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 866183


Do you think maybe people confused the Iroquois language group to which the Cherokee belong, with the Cherokee themselves? IOW, all Cherokee are Iroquois, but all Iroquois are not Cherokee. This would account for the massively large numbers of Cherokee ;)
devorahg

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01/27/2010 02:16 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
I've been able to trace back to 1639 England. Ancestor came over as an indentured servant. Somewhere between Virgina and Tn a son was born,another Christopher Choate. Anyway...between 1639 and current day I'm English,Irish and Black Dutch. I always though Black Dutch was a dark headed Dutch person. But it came about from dark headed native americans/negro or any other so called none white people tryng to stay safe from "white people". Hell! Who knows.I'm American to be sure.:) Ohh my uncle before he passed told me my great grandfather on my mother's side was Cherokee. Coming from East TN and being here as long as we have I can believe that we are Cherokee. My mother looks like she is. High cheekbones, lovely skin that tans easily.I have a pretty momma!

Last Edited by devorahg on 01/27/2010 02:20 PM
Tlaloc

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01/27/2010 02:17 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
aztec/mayan =)
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:19 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
1/32 Cherokee. My great great great great Granddad had a wagon on the Trail of Tears that helped ferry women and children, I was told.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:25 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
My great grandmother was full blooded Qualla Cherokee out of NC. Her husband was half blooded from the same tribe. That would make my grandmother 3/4, my mother 3/8, and me possibly 1/8. I think...

This is all through the maternal side, im not sure about my fathers side cause ive never met him so not sure if hes got any in his bloodline...
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:41 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
...but are you part of the indian nation?

card carying?





Many that could be....don't.
It may be hip to be native american now, but it wasn't 50-100 years ago. You didn't talk about it.


But for those of us who are members of a Nation, you have to see why we carry a certain amount of skepticism when people tell you "Oh I'm Indian too" and of course 99% of the time they claim Cherokee.


Do you think maybe people confused the Iroquois language group to which the Cherokee belong, with the Cherokee themselves? IOW, all Cherokee are Iroquois, but all Iroquois are not Cherokee. This would account for the massively large numbers of Cherokee ;)
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 875486


I'm sure linguistics plays a small part, but language is lost in a generation or two. Around here everyone is Navajo but not too many speak it.

Most likely it's a combination of Cherokee being the largest Nation and they are located around a highly populated area. Add to that a pinch of it's cool to be Cherokee and the when in doubt>they're Cherokee.

It does make me sad that there are many out there who could rightfully claim their heritage but have now been cut off from it. Having Native blood doesn't impart you with any special powers. The power is in the wisdom that is handed down, being connected to your elders and knowing they are connected to those before them.

I wonder if those who hid their heritage out of fear or shame knew how much they were going to hurt the future of their children and grandchildren. Would they have chosen to suffer instead? I will forever be grateful to my ancestors for being strong enough and wise enough to not let their identity be taken from them.
Tirzah

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01/27/2010 02:45 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
My father is Otomi, descenders of the Toltecs.

He also born on Tula close of where the Atlantes of Tula are.

funny thing we send his DNA to the NAtional Geographic genome project and they say he share blood with 60% of the Hebrew pure blood ...

Toltecs and Hebrew??? = anunnakies
 Quoting: fërú.

Feru:
That's because when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians the Captivity of Jerusalem went into Spain. You have Hebrew blood because you're of the tribe of Benjamin. "Beginning with a series of Jewish massacres that swept Christian Spain in 1391 thousands of Jews took refuge in conversion in order to escape persecution. They were called the Marranos." Quote: Cecil Roth

[link to www.kahalbraira.org]
"The righteous shall flourish like the palm tree:" Psalms 92:12
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:48 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
It does make me sad that there are many out there who could rightfully claim their heritage but have now been cut off from it. Having Native blood doesn't impart you with any special powers. The power is in the wisdom that is handed down, being connected to your elders and knowing they are connected to those before them.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 866183


clappa
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:52 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
It is interesting that so many claim Cherokee heritage. We were told this also, but upon working up the geneaology, it turned out to be Choctaw. Maybe Cherokee is just used when the legend is passed down through the generations of the family.

 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 869067

I would have to agree with this. Everyone I know that claims native american blood claims Cherokee. I've never heart of anyone being part Ute as those of my ancestors. Evidentally, the Cherokees really got around.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 02:53 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
1/32 Cherokee. My great great great great Granddad had a wagon on the Trail of Tears that helped ferry women and children, I was told.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 832043

How could he have owned a wagon? Have you researched the Trail of Tears?
SOARINGHAWK
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01/27/2010 02:56 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
I have cherokee on both sides of my family. My great grandmother was full blooded hawaiian.
REX1138
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01/27/2010 03:19 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
From what I know, my bloodline has a long genetic history. I'm part Irish, Scottish, Sweedish, French, English and even Native American.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 03:27 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
My mom traced back 8 generations and has documented that she is 1/4 Cherekee from a tribe in Kentucky that was part of the Trail of Tears which ended up on a reservation in Arkansas.

My Dad's side is Welsh and came over on the Nina with Columbus. If I were to give you my sir name it would be easy to verify...that ain't go'n to happen here.

I think I'm either 1/32 or 1/64 because my Grandma is 1/2. It took my Mom a long time to trace it all back because most people didn't wish to admit to being a Redskin. When I tan you can tell that I have some native blood in me. I don't turn brown but get very dark red. (well redish brown).
fërú.

User ID: 875687
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01/27/2010 04:00 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
My father is Otomi, descenders of the Toltecs.

He also born on Tula close of where the Atlantes of Tula are.

funny thing we send his DNA to the NAtional Geographic genome project and they say he share blood with 60% of the Hebrew pure blood ...

Toltecs and Hebrew??? = anunnakies

Feru:
That's because when Jerusalem fell to the Babylonians the Captivity of Jerusalem went into Spain. You have Hebrew blood because you're of the tribe of Benjamin. "Beginning with a series of Jewish massacres that swept Christian Spain in 1391 thousands of Jews took refuge in conversion in order to escape persecution. They were called the Marranos." Quote: Cecil Roth

[link to www.kahalbraira.org]
 Quoting: Tirzah


I found the original thread I post on April 07 when I brought the National Geographic genoma project kid for my father
Thread: I brought a kit of national geographic to know my genome map


They did not found any connection with Europeans (Spaniards)

only Jews, Arabs and native ancient Mexicans.
  Enki was the real engineer of the human race. He was the Sumerian god of science, engineering, magic, strategy, music, and lovemaking
alan LouBowski

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01/27/2010 04:11 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
1/4 Cherokee
1/4 German
1/2 Scottish

= 100% all American Mut and proud of it.
 Quoting: Resister



hey mutt,
how did that cherok get in there?
those silly cherhokee

physically i am scottish bohunk and german.
a bohunk is a not so nice reference to those who are mixed bohemian and hungarian
i think my aspie is from the german side, but then all germans are..... (hot water here). comment discontinued.
i will so pone you
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:15 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Here is why everyone seems to be Cherokee, basically comes down to unwarranted self importance:



It is common enough that it falls into genealogical urban legend. TONS of families claim having Cherokee ancestors, most often a Cherokee 'princess'. Since expericenced researchers already know that there never were "princesses", they recognize that it is almost always an exaggeration without any basis. I say ALMOST always, because in some cases, they do have Cherokee ancestry. Most of the time, there is little facts to back it up, or it even is disproven. There was a time when any background such as Black, was HIGHLY discriminated against, and persons used Cherokee to explain it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:17 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Here is why everyone seems to be Cherokee, basically comes down to unwarranted self importance:



It is common enough that it falls into genealogical urban legend. TONS of families claim having Cherokee ancestors, most often a Cherokee 'princess'. Since expericenced researchers already know that there never were "princesses", they recognize that it is almost always an exaggeration without any basis. I say ALMOST always, because in some cases, they do have Cherokee ancestry. Most of the time, there is little facts to back it up, or it even is disproven. There was a time when any background such as Black, was HIGHLY discriminated against, and persons used Cherokee to explain it.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 868848


More:



Today, many persons want to have Native heritage, whether or not it is true, and heaven help you if you attempt to show how to research this factually. They believe whatever grandma (or uncle Joe, etc) tells them, without any question. You can show them valid documents that prove Gr Grandpa was born in Lithuania.. and it won't matter.


Sorry. You are not Indian.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:19 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Here is why everyone seems to be Cherokee, basically comes down to unwarranted self importance:



It is common enough that it falls into genealogical urban legend. TONS of families claim having Cherokee ancestors, most often a Cherokee 'princess'. Since expericenced researchers already know that there never were "princesses", they recognize that it is almost always an exaggeration without any basis. I say ALMOST always, because in some cases, they do have Cherokee ancestry. Most of the time, there is little facts to back it up, or it even is disproven. There was a time when any background such as Black, was HIGHLY discriminated against, and persons used Cherokee to explain it.


More:



Today, many persons want to have Native heritage, whether or not it is true, and heaven help you if you attempt to show how to research this factually. They believe whatever grandma (or uncle Joe, etc) tells them, without any question. You can show them valid documents that prove Gr Grandpa was born in Lithuania.. and it won't matter.


Sorry. You are not Indian.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 868848


The rest:



The majority of Native claims are probably exaggerated or false. I heard from husband's mother about her Cherokee princess, and was totally skeptical. After doing the research and finding the records.. her Cherokee ancestor was actually verified with evidence.

We won't discuss those who come in here looking for Native ancestry because someone told them that if they have Native ancestry, they can now get a free car and college education. For most of those, the only thing that can be proven is that they have greedy heritage


Sorry to burst your collective bubbles.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:30 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
My mom's grandma was full blooded Blackfoot.

Cherokee on my dad's dad's side.


Is that teeth thing for real? Because my teeth are like that and I just assumed everyone's were.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:35 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
miq
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:36 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Most, only a small a minority of Americans don't, have native ancestry. The reality of humanity is far more complex than anyone 'expert' could possibly explain.

Knowing this, I hope that all of you native people figure out it is now time to tell those people from other places where to stick their books, what to do to themselves and what to do with their horses.

When they say, look at all the crimes 'americans' have committed throughout the world, did you know that they are literally trying to put a crime on NATIVE Americans?

Yes, the Iranians are actually at war with any number of Native American tribes right now. They said we did something to them. Isn't that Wild?
alan LouBowski

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01/27/2010 04:38 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
After doing the research and finding the records.. her Cherokee ancestor was actually verified with evidence.

what kind of evidence?

seems hard to prove one's native american ancestry due to poor record keeping at the time.
i will so pone you
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:46 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
french
iroquois
cherokee
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 04:50 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
It would be nice to talk with my grandmas sister who is still alive and in her late 90's. Her mom was around for wounded knee and I'm sure it would be interesting to hear about what happened in that time period to the sioux. Probably will never happen due to being several thousand miles away.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 05:06 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
Can DNA Determine

Who is American Indian?
By Kim TallBear, Phd., Associate, Red Nation Consulting





There is talk in Indian country about how DNA can decide tribal enrollment and prove American Indian ancestry. Some of this is coming from DNA testing companies anxious to sell costly services to tribes.

Self-determined tribes struggling to control identities and resources must make decisions about the risks and benefits of DNA testing. Some tribal decision-makers display healthy skepticism as they talk about the complicated nature of identity, family, and community. Biological connection is not the sole important factor in determining who belongs. Cultural knowledge and connection to a land base are also valued. Many Indian people are also concerned about loss of privacy and control if outsiders hold biological samples. Other tribal decision-makers have expressed interest in DNA testing and still others need more information.

Do Not Rely on DNA Testing Companies for Information
DNA testing companies are not in business to provide accessible and balanced information on DNA technologies. Their brochures generally contain shallow scientific detail. I suspect this is partly because these scientist-entrepreneurs do not know enough about the cultural politics of tribal membership to apply science to such questions.

At a recent "tribal enrollment workshop" (that played out like a three-day sales pitch for DNA testing) a company representative claimed that DNA technology is "100 percent reliable in terms of creating accurate answers" to questions of tribal enrollment. But tribes should ask "which questions can this technology provide answers to?"

Sometimes the biological connection of an enrollment applicant is in question. In this case, a tribe might call for a DNA test of the individual to prove relation to an enrolled member. More often, tribal enrollment and identity questions center around two issues that DNA cannot inform: cultural affiliation and the distribution of money and services. Like "blood quantum" DNA is an imperfect answer to the cultural question. Neither a higher blood quantum nor DNA can guarantee greater cultural attachment. In addition, casino tribes issuing per capita payments want to distribute money to as few people as possible; they often impose non-biological barriers to enrollment. What does DNA matter in these cases?

Overview of DNA Testing
In general, two types of tests are offered to help American Indians prove ancestry: "DNA fingerprinting" and tests for "Native American haplotypes" or lines of descent.

The DNA fingerprint is the type of test used in criminal cases to prove, for example, that a bodily fluid found on a crime victim belongs to an individual suspect. This test is also used to establish paternity and maternity when the DNA of parent and offspring are compared.

One company sells this test as a paternity and maternity test and claims that it will ensure that "only Native Americans that deserve to be members of your tribe will be." However, most tribes do not decide enrollment solely based on simple biological connection. For example, blood quantum attempts to quantify one’s Indian-ness; it is not used to prove parentage. And parentage is not usually in question.

Another company promises to help individuals establish their "identity as a Native American" by testing for Native American DNA. But what is "Native American DNA" and is it relevant to tribal enrollment?" A paper by the Nevada-based Indigenous Peoples Council on Biocolonialism (IPCB) explains why DNA is not a valid test of Native American identity:

Scientists have found … "markers" in human genes that they call Native American markers because they believe all "original" Native Americans had these genetic traits … On the mitochondrial DNA, there are a total of five different "haplotypes" … which are increasingly called "Native American markers," and are believed to be a genetic signature of the founding ancestors. As for the Y-chromosome, there are two primary lineages or "haplogroups" that are seen in modern Native American groups


IPCB points out that "Native American markers" are not found solely among Native Americans. While they occur more frequently among Native Americans they are also found in people in other parts of the world.

A second problem with tying markers to Native American identity is that mitochondrial DNA and Y marker testing show only one line of ancestry each. Therefore, Native American ancestors on other lines are invisible.

IPCB addresses a third crucial problem with DNA testing for identity: Genetics cannot help determine specific tribal affiliations for living people or ancient human remains. This is because "[n]eighboring tribes have long-standing complex relationships involving intermarriage, raiding, adoption, splitting and joining. These social historical forces insure that there cannot be any clear-cut genetic variants differentiating all the members of one tribe from those of nearby tribes."

So "Native American markers" can tell something about an individual’s biological descendancy along a few ancestral lines over archaeological time. But how does this inform tribal enrollment? Many individuals around the world no doubt possess markers and yet have no close biological, social or cultural attachment to a living tribe. In contrast, individuals with strong connections might not have the markers because their American Indian ancestors are not on the lines of descendancy covered by the tests. DNA testing fails to provide definitive answers on either biological or cultural connections to a tribe.

What Does It Cost and Who’s in Control?
DNA testing by a private company is expensive. Depending on the type, tests range from $150 to $600 per individual.

One DNA testing company offers DNA fingerprinting for two to three individuals (an individual plus one or both biological parents) for $500. They advocate tribal-wide DNA testing. To estimate cost, the number of tests for a tribe of 10,000 members might be 4,000 (an average of 2.5 people per test). At $500 per test the cost to test all members would be $2 million. This same company advertises a more costly "individual DNA identity system" to accompany tribal-wide testing. This is a programmable identification card that stores a tribal member’s information (i.e. enrollment number, health services, voter registration, and a DNA profile). This company charges $320 to produce each individual card totaling $3.2 million for a 10,000-member tribe.

A tribe determines information to be included on the card and maintains the database. However, the tribe sends (often confidential) data to the company and they generate the cards. The company notes that they purge the data after producing the card. Yet tribes relinquish a good deal of sovereignty by sending confidential data to be consolidated by a private company. No doubt, many tribal members would object to the invasion of privacy.

Tribes should also consider the logistical nightmare of doing DNA tests on all members, especially those living off reservations. In summary, DNA testing does not seem to provide cost-efficient, politically tenable, or substantive solutions to most cases of tribal enrollment.

Seek Reliable Advice
Unfortunately, there is no single source for information on DNA technologies and tribes. Nonprofit organizations and academic resources used in conjunction are a good start. The Council for Responsible Genetics (CRG) located in Cambridge, Mass. can provide general information about genetics (www.gene-watch.org). The Genetics and Identity Project at the University of Minnesota Center for Bioethics has on-line information on genetics and American Indian Identity available at [link to www.bioethics.umn.edu] IPCB’s paper on DNA and Native American identity and other documents on genetics are available at [link to www.ipcb.org] IPCB is well-networked on genetics issues affecting indigenous peoples and can help tribes find technical assistance.
Anonymous Coward
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01/27/2010 05:11 PM
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Re: how many here have native american blood?
1/16 cherokee. I had 3 out of 4 grandparents claim native but only 1 with back up (memories, no cards...was not talked about and hidden because they would take the young boys for a couple of years to Oklahoma for some reason-my great grandpa was taken for a few years and returned/he was half, but never ever talked about it).

The only reason why I investigated was becuase when I was younger everyone would ask what I "was"...LOL. Only when I became older did people say I looked European (specifically French or Italian and I don't think I'm either). German/Irish/British/Scottish/Danish/Native=me.

Yeah, I have the asian shovel teeth (that's what it's called) becuase supposedly just the native and asians have that behind the teeth.

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