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Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old

 
Worship the I Am that I Am
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Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Hello brothers and sisters from around the world.

The biggest problem with the earth being 6000-10000 years old, according to scientists, is the speed of light as it relates to the stars we can observe. We see and go into the past, some 6 billion years to when te earth was formed.

Dr Russell Humpreys, physicist, proposes an interesting theory which could prove for the earth being 6.000 to 10.000 years old.

Remember folks, truth is truth, truth does not depend on the number of scientists say it is.

Here goes:

Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Hello brothers and sisters from around the world.

The biggest problem with the earth being 6000-10000 years old, according to scientists, is the speed of light as it relates to the stars we can observe. We see and go into the past, some 6 billion years to when the earth was formed.

Dr Russell Humphreys, physicist, proposes an interesting theory which could prove for the earth being 6.000 to 10.000 years old.

Remember folks, truth is truth, truth does not depend on the number of scientists say it is.
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am 823295

I hate to bring it to you, but people are not going to invest 22 minutes of their time to argue with you by proxy.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Humphreys' book called Starlight and Time presents a controversial cosmological model in which the Earth is several thousands of years old, but the outer edge of an expanding and rotating 3-dimensional universe is billions of years old, with various ages in between. The model places the Milky Way galaxy relatively near the center of the cosmos (in line with observable data if one disregards the Copernican Principle), though it is not a geocentric model of the solar system.[4]

His model has been criticized by scientists, and old earth creationists such as Hugh Ross and Samuel R. Conner.[5]

On Humphrey's thousands-of-years-old universe, in 1998 Dave Thomas wrote "he has his astronomy backwards - the Kuiper Belt contains the remains of the "volatile" (icy) planetesimals that were left over from the formation of the solar system - numbering in the hundreds of millions. If anything, it is the Kuiper Belt that supplies the more remote Oort Cloud, as some icy chunks are occasionally flung far away by interactions with large planets."[6] Humphreys claims there is "not enough sodium in the sea" for a several billion year old sea. Conversely, Thomas claims that "Humphreys finds estimates of oceanic salt accumulation and deposition that provide him the data to "set" an upper limit of 62 million years. But modern geologists do not use erratic processes like these for clocks. It's like someone noticing that (A) it's snowing at an inch per hour, (B) the snow outside is four feet deep, and then concluding that (C) the Earth is just 48 hours, or two days, in age. Snowfall is erratic; some snow can melt; and so on. The Earth is older than two days, so there must be a flaw with the "snow" dating method, just as there is with the "salt" method."[6]

Likewise Kevin Henke claimed he has "criticized and documented some of the numerous problems in Dr. Humphreys' work."[7] For example, Humphreys "thinks that zircons from the Fenton Hill rock cores... contain too much radiogenic helium to be billions of years old."[8] Henke claimed that the equations in Humphreys work "are based on many false assumptions (isotropic diffusion, constant temperatures over time, etc.) and the vast majority of Humphreys et al.'s critical a, b, and Q/Q0 values that are used in these 'dating' equations are either missing, poorly defined, improperly measured or inaccurate."[7]

Humphreys has responded to some of his critics and criticisms.[9]

[edit] Earth Cooling Model
Scientists Glenn Morton and George L Murphy have dismissed Humphreys' cooling model as "wrong" because "it is ineffective, it is falsified by observational data, and it is theologically flawed."[10] First, in a classical model for a harmonic oscillator (like a particle oscillating in a crystal), "the particle does not lose energy to the cosmic expansion."[10] Second, Humphreys' model "is too slow to be useful to the creationist agenda."[10] Thirdly, "there would be visible effects in the spectra of light emitted during the Flood, including those from stars a few thousand light years away in our own galaxy. A change in the energy levels of atoms (which this idea would entail) would change the frequencies at which light is emitted in a fashion that would be observable. The lack of such observations rules out Humphreys' cooling mechanism as a reasonable possibility."[10] Lastly, they criticized it for contradicting the theological foundation Humphreys uses in another publication.[10]


I'd say busted.
He tried so hard to squeeze the facts into a philosophically predetermined model that he managed to break most of them.

"A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is." -- Laozi

Remember folks, truth is truth, truth does not depend on the number of scientists say it is.
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am 823295


"It doesn't matter how beautiful your theory is, it doesn't matter how smart you are. If it doesn't agree with experiment, it's wrong." -- Richard Feynman
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Worship the I Am that I Am, th (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
"A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is." -- Laozi



 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD


Amein to that. Science nowadays is dogmatic naturalism. Any supernatural cause for effects is dismissed therefore. So science nowadays isn't searching for truth anymore. It's dogmatic.

At least when the scientific revolution began in the 16th science, its mission statement was: "the search for truth".

We need to get back to that and be OPEN to the possibility of supernatural causes for effects.

The facts is the bible has been proven to be scientifically reliable over an over again. Archeology supports the books of Kings.

Scientific observations confirm the expansion of the universe and so does the bible:

Isaiah 40:22

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

And so there are 16 more verses like that.

Thank you brother for admitting indirectly scientists should have an open mind again to what is, natural or supernatural.
nomuse (NLI)
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01/29/2010 04:31 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Amein to that. Science nowadays is dogmatic naturalism. Any supernatural cause for effects is dismissed therefore. So science nowadays isn't searching for truth anymore. It's dogmatic.
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am, th 823295


No, science is searching for science. Absolute truth is not possible within the structure of science, and thus has no utility.

Science is, by its nature, a description of naturalism. You can no more criticize science for not including supernatural explanations (which have no theoretical structure or predictive utility) than you can criticize a symphony for not having more special effects.

It just doesn't apply. Science is the task of describing those parts of the universe we CAN describe in a very specific way; a way that allows quantifiable description and prediction.


The facts is the bible has been proven to be scientifically reliable over an over again. Archeology supports the books of Kings.
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am, th 823295


Archeology also supports the Book of the Dead. But I'm not about to become a worshiper of Thoth.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2010 04:59 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
"A good scientist has freed himself of concepts and keeps his mind open to what is." -- Laozi





Amein to that. Science nowadays is dogmatic naturalism. Any supernatural cause for effects is dismissed therefore. So science nowadays isn't searching for truth anymore. It's dogmatic.

At least when the scientific revolution began in the 16th science, its mission statement was: "the search for truth".

We need to get back to that and be OPEN to the possibility of supernatural causes for effects.

The facts is the bible has been proven to be scientifically reliable over an over again. Archeology supports the books of Kings.

Scientific observations confirm the expansion of the universe and so does the bible:

Isaiah 40:22

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in.

And so there are 16 more verses like that.

Thank you brother for admitting indirectly scientists should have an open mind again to what is, natural or supernatural.
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am, th 823295


So you traded science for the Bible?

Seriously, that's fucked up.
Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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01/29/2010 11:33 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
It just doesn't apply. Science is the task of describing those parts of the universe we CAN describe in a very specific way; a way that allows quantifiable description and prediction.


 Quoting: nomuse (NLI) 870211


That's not entirely accurate. Both "creation" vs "macro-evolution including spontanious generation" can both be put in a scientific model via the scientific method. When we step into the realm of origins, we cannot dismiss the model of creation. True, we cannot observe the supernatural, but we CAN observe what takes and took place and make models which in turn would support the one or the other.

I quote here Scott Todd (immunologist) nature magazine 1999:

Even if ALL all the data point to an intelligent designer, such an hypothesis is excluded from science because it is not naturalistic.

This is bias.
Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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01/29/2010 11:41 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
So you traded science for the Bible?

Seriously, that's fucked up.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849651


Ehm no I'm simply saying the bible supports much science we humans just started to unravel in the 21th century. This implies without a doubt that the inspirator of the bible had this knowledge in advance, hence the case for a creator seems highly probable.

I mean take this for example: apostle John knowing 2000 years earlier (from God) the properties of certain stones in pure light. Scientists just found out about this in the 90's.

Returner
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01/29/2010 11:44 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Epic fail.

The Earth is much much older than 10K years. There is no evidence at all to support a 'young Earth.'

Wanting to believe in something doesn't make it true.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2010 11:51 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
whoever said the earth was FLAT?
IT CERTAINLY WASNT GOD\

VATICAN MAYBE BUT NOT GOD.

"He sits enthroned above the CIRCLE of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in."
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2010 11:52 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
TRUTH IS TRUTH AND SCIENCE IS LOOKING FOR IT

JESUS IS THE TRUTH.
Returner
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01/29/2010 11:55 AM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Maybe you lot could look for your CAPS LOCK key and press it now and then.

SEE HOW IT WORKS?
Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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01/29/2010 12:00 PM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
TRUTH IS TRUTH AND SCIENCE IS LOOKING FOR IT

JESUS IS THE TRUTH.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 877203


Absolutely and not just because it says so in the bible but also via observations around us.

Take the struggling of Brian head welch for example, quitting drugs for his daughter. For 1,5 years he tries. He found God and bamn quit drugs immediately and never done since. Ít was the hand of God that helped him kick off drugs immediately.

Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Take the struggling of Brian head welch for example, quitting drugs for his daughter. For 1,5 years he tries. He found God and bamn quit drugs immediately and never done since. Ít was the hand of God that helped him kick off drugs immediately.

Then why doesn't God heal amputees and restore their missing
limbs? Does God hate them?
 Quoting: DrPostman


God is not just love, he is also wrath and he hates sin. His love and patience provide for redemption in due time.

As for nations, those can also be judged for their sins. And yes innocent people can die then. It is cause and effect. It's the economy of God.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2010 12:14 PM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Take the struggling of Brian head welch for example, quitting drugs for his daughter. For 1,5 years he tries. He found God and bamn quit drugs immediately and never done since. Ít was the hand of God that helped him kick off drugs immediately.

Then why doesn't God heal amputees and restore their missing
limbs? Does God hate them?
 Quoting: DrPostman


I know God doesn't hate them, but I have no answer for why He doesn't restore their limbs. It's a really good question.

I do know He allows us all to suffer in one way or another. Many of us who know Him, have come to Him because of this suffering. So maybe that is why He allows it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/29/2010 12:16 PM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
TRUTH IS TRUTH AND SCIENCE IS LOOKING FOR IT

JESUS IS THE TRUTH.


Absolutely and not just because it says so in the bible but also via observations around us.

Take the struggling of Brian head welch for example, quitting drugs for his daughter. For 1,5 years he tries. He found God and bamn quit drugs immediately and never done since. Ít was the hand of God that helped him kick off drugs immediately.


 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am 823295


I tried to get clean for 12 years. When I finally turned to God, I was able to quit.

Make of that what you will.
Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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01/29/2010 12:18 PM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I tried to get clean for 12 years. When I finally turned to God, I was able to quit.

Make of that what you will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849249


Only God can do this, it is a supernatural act. Bless you my brother. Shalom
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I'm a caretaker for someone with ALS right now. you do NOT want to get me started on the validity of an argument which states that God inficts horrific diseases on people (diseases which he engineered, by the way) for the sole purpose of making some damned metaphysical point.

Really. You don't.
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01/29/2010 12:47 PM
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
churchlady Carbon dating? Did you say "Satan"?
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Science is a fraud! Theories that support an elitest agenda are prospered while those that disagree have mouth manure shoveled upon them. By the unfolding/enfolding of space time he could very well be right. He's not busted-certainly he knows more about it than the person who pronounces him busted-rediculous cerebral narcissism leads the way!
Worship the I Am that I Am (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I am still looking for an explanation by the atheists out there for the prophetic facts presented in this video:



I am laughing in advance for answer: "chance"
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I'm a caretaker for someone with ALS right now. you do NOT want to get me started on the validity of an argument which states that God inficts horrific diseases on people (diseases which he engineered, by the way) for the sole purpose of making some damned metaphysical point.

Really. You don't.
 Quoting: Returner 997


No, I certainly don't. I don't have an answer as to why God allows suffering. I can only attest to my own experience.

If anything tries my faith it's watching people like you have described suffer.

I simply don't have an answer to that.
Worship the self-existing one (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I'm a caretaker for someone with ALS right now. you do NOT want to get me started on the validity of an argument which states that God inficts horrific diseases on people (diseases which he engineered, by the way) for the sole purpose of making some damned metaphysical point.

Really. You don't.


No, I certainly don't. I don't have an answer as to why God allows suffering. I can only attest to my own experience.

If anything tries my faith it's watching people like you have described suffer.

I simply don't have an answer to that.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849249


I believe - and I know how this sounds to unbelievers, I was one myself for a long time - it all began with the fall. I believe God has an economy, a balance for things. Supernatural cause and effect if you will. God cannot sin, the adversary does sin. God DESIRES for ALL to come to repentance and be saved but there is a spiritual battle which has been won already for those in Christ.

John 16:33

"I have told you these things, so that in me you may have peace. In this world you will have trouble. But take heart! I have overcome the world."

John's gospel is written to believers, he states that at the end.

Believers who are TRUE believers, that is really following Christ and repenting every day. (not just asking Jesus in your heart and be done with). Those are protected I believe in all the balance. Satan cannot harm those.


To get back to the spiritual battle; unbelievers and semi-believers are victim of it.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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01/29/2010 07:48 PM

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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
I tried to get clean for 12 years. When I finally turned to God, I was able to quit.

Make of that what you will.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 849249

So you found an effective psychological crutch.
That tells us something about human nature, not necessarily about the supernatural.


I am still looking for an explanation by the atheists out there for the prophetic facts presented in this video:


[link to www.youtube.com]

I am laughing in advance for answer: "chance"
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am 823295

Argumentum ad Youtubem?

Why do you insist on arguing by proxy.
Are you incapable to form opinions of your own?
Are you incapable to at least write down the premise, rather then insist people spend precious minutes on watching talking heads?

Pray tell, how many types of anisotropic gemstones are there?
Do you know that this property directly relates to how the material was crystallised?
How do you know that John didn't just happen to have a predilection for stones formed in the same way and therefor found in the same region?

I am laughing in advance for answer: "chance"
 Quoting: Worship the I Am that I Am 823295

The word is probability.
Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it funny.
That is the reaction of a fool.
book
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Worship the self-existing one (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
The word is probability. I stand corrected, I am dutch so my english isn't always exactly right, but ty.

Just because you don't understand it, doesn't make it funny.
That is the reaction of a fool.

A fool said in his heart, there is no God. ;)
book

Btw I show (short) youtube vid's because that's the most effective on these kinds of fora. Ppl don't want to read.

As for the bible, I am only trying to prove that science confirms the "scientific" stuff told in the bible.


 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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01/30/2010 10:00 PM

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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
The word is probability.

I stand corrected, I am dutch so my English isn't always exactly right, but try.
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

Eh, gats!

A Dutch Creationist.
There goes our reputation of being a a rational, secular society. ;)

I blame the EO for importing this American nonsense back in the 70s.

A fool said in his heart, there is no God. ;)
book
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

Very poetic, but it doesn't proof anything.
A rational person says, quite loudly: Show me the evidence.

Btw I show (short) youtube vid's because that's the most effective on these kinds of fora. Ppl don't want to read.
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

Sad, but true.

As for the bible, I am only trying to prove that science confirms the "scientific" stuff told in the bible.
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

Since the bible was written by Bronze Age tribesmen who believe that the Earth was flat, and the sky was a tent, good luck with that.
And trying to apply science to some 1st century hermit's fever dream is just silly.

If god wanted everybody to unequivocally know that it created the universe, it should have left a copyright stamp somewhere for everybody to see.

"Copyright ©13,700,000,000 Yodh-He-Waw-He™"
book

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 01/30/2010 10:01 PM
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.
Worship the self-existing one (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
The word is probability.



Eh, gats!

A Dutch Creationist.
There goes our reputation of being a a rational, secular society. ;)

Yes odd huh, and I even studied electrical engineering @ TU Delft...makes u wonder why I choose at later age to become a believer. It's not due to EO btw, which I dislike ;)

A fool said in his heart, there is no God. ;)
book

Very poetic, but it doesn't proof anything.
A rational person says, quite loudly: Show me the evidence.

Used to share that opinion. Wouldn't be a faith than anymore and that's the point of being a believer, having faith.


If god wanted everybody to unequivocally know that it created the universe, it should have left a copyright stamp somewhere for everybody to see.

See above...I believe he wanted it this way, for us to make this leap in our minds to "believe" without much evident solid, material evidence (though I believe spontanious generation vs creation is more probable and much easier to believe due to certain facts, especially the immaterial information (dna etc) issue). He put this faith - as I experienced it - deep down in our hearts and through his word he speaks.

I used to think christians were goofbags, and the world rightly thinks so. Many American preachers you see on T.V. it's all about money, money. They lie, they steal. Well...that ain't very christian... to unbelievers it all seems like a joke than.

But if you go and really live like it says in the bible, a new world opens up which you immediately want to share with joy with the rest of the world. I know now why they labeled it "the Gospel" - "The good news".

Peace to ya fellow dutchy
 Quoting: Halcyon Dayz, FCD
Worship the self-existing one (OP)
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Aye sorry about the bad quoting again, not really programmed well on this site.
Halcyon Dayz, FCD
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Re: Starlight & time - a scientific model for earth being 6000-10000 years old
Peace to ya fellow dutchy
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

peace

Aye sorry about the bad quoting again, not really programmed well on this site.
 Quoting: Worship the self-existing one 823295

It's horrible, horrible.

The former owner tried to develop forum software in-house and make lots of money.

It went nowhere.
There is no point in competing with well established software unless you can offer new ideas and features to the client.
book
Maybe someday they'll put up the couple of hundred bucks and buy something decent.

Last Edited by Halcyon Dayz, FCD on 01/31/2010 01:35 AM
Hatred is a cancer upon the world.
It rots the mind and blackens the heart.


Hi! My name is Halcyon Dayz and I'm addicted to morans.

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