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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
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09/18/2010 11:59 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Returning Money to the People; Ellen Brown; Thanks to Anthropomorphosizeme

[link to www.usavsus.info]

QUOTE ELLEN BROWN: "The Greenback Solution

A $7.7 trillion (+) debt tsunami is currently bearing down on the United States. Congress needs to liquidate it before it liquidates the United States. But how? The debt was created by sleight of hand. It can be eliminated by sleight of hand. Factional reserve lending can be abolished by legislative fiat. The Federal Reserve can be made what most people think it now is – a truly ‘federal’ institution – and the power to create money can be returned to the people."

END QUOTE
Levi Philos
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09/18/2010 12:20 PM
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One of the most remarkable admissions by a banker concerning the mysteries of his profession was made by Sir Josiah Stamp, president of the Bank of England and the second richest man in Britain in the 1920’s. Speaking at the University of Texas in 1927, he revealed:

"The modern banking system manufactures money out of nothing. The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of sleight of hand that was every invented. Banking was conceived in inequity and born in sin …. Bankers own the earth. Take it away from them but leave them the power to create money, and with a flick of a pen, they will create enough money to buy it back again …. Take this great power away from them and all great fortunes like mine will disappear, for then this would be a better and happier world to live in …. But if you want to continue to be the slaves of bankers and pay the cost of your own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control credit."
 Quoting: Anthropomorphosizeme


from: Thread: federal reserve banking system (Page 5)
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2010 12:25 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The fact that the seigniorage is improperly assigned to the banks is itself an EXTREMELY important part of the total picture. The seigniorage must be assigned to the people who by their intellectual and physical labors give value to the notes if debts are ever to be balanced with credits.

Levi Philos
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Can you define "intellectual labor" because I see a bunch of handshaking assheads hiding behind that term.

I think you are using what ayn Rand would call "weasel words" not to imply any subterfuge but you must admit "intellectual labor" to have zero value in any discussion.

I presume that one must go to Universities to become an intellectual laborer?

Thinkers of the world, UNITE!
Levi Philos
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09/18/2010 12:42 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In part 5 of the series "Statism is Dead" Stefan Molyneux equates statism with terrorism.

[link to www.youtube.com]
DanfromtheHills

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09/18/2010 12:43 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
bump
"Nothing to see here, go back to sheep..." --- AC 1251379
Levi Philos
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09/18/2010 12:55 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Can you define "intellectual labor" because I see a bunch of handshaking assheads hiding behind that term.

I think you are using what ayn Rand would call "weasel words" not to imply any subterfuge but you must admit "intellectual labor" to have zero value in any discussion.

I presume that one must go to Universities to become an intellectual laborer?

Thinkers of the world, UNITE!
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1086981


I suspect Ayn Rand may have lifted the term "weasel words" from Hayek. (would need to check my library for the appropriate Hayek book - perhaps "Road to Serfdom")(as for that, I have read some Rand myself)

no matter

I had to add intellectual labor in response to critiques from people who pointed out that physical labor was not the only way to add value in the world.

I clearly understand what you are stating - and challenge you to help define "intellectual labor." Certainly, you need to admit that the trained engineer creates value when he sits at a drafting table and draws up plans for...

My daughter (masters degree in physics) labors little and results are difficult to measure in the world of particle physics - original research. It is certainly difficult to compare the value of an engineer vs the value of a particle physics researcher.

But handshaking asshats... I totally get what you are saying.

Never tried to say any of this was easy or simple. Have tried to imply that it might be simpler than MSM implies.
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2010 01:09 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I clearly understand what you are stating - and challenge you to help define "intellectual labor." Certainly, you need to admit that the trained engineer creates value when he sits at a drafting table and draws up plans for...
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Then Levi, since you are game and you speak truth, then I say to you that Ike said engineers would destroy us.

Again: When he left office he warned against allowing "research" and basically, the "Idea Labor Crew" to be organized and funded better than "actual life"

A man's daughter wants to be an engineer. What could possibly be wrong with that? Except if all humans are in a trance state?

Regarding hypnosis: Do you believe in it?

It is said that one cannot hypnotize someone to do what they themselves would normally be opposed to. Well that, I believe, is a lie told to the subject. I believe, that if entire families be hypnotized, that a world like this might be the result, and that some might consider it a wonderful masterwork?

A girl becomes an Engineer, an outgoing president speaks of a "Complex" which might control all engineers in a Monopoly sort of fashion.

Ah! I am picturing the game of Monopoly (tm) but instead of "Marvin Gardens" its a disease lab one buys and monopolizes! Instead of "the Red properties" one established control of entire Universities that churn out pencil pushing renderers and other laborers, who bring ideas not their own, to life.

Well I respect your work, but currency is trumped by trance state every time, so when many people today say the Globocurrency scheme will continue, it's not that they don't agree with you Levi, its just that they don't think you understand trance states and how they are gameplanned, birthed and maintained.
DNAprototype

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09/18/2010 01:09 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
bump
GAR
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09/18/2010 01:12 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
2 things the human race will have to combine and achieve before we evolve.

if we don't, it will be like a stagnant parasite within us all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 876442

I am so glad some people out there can SEE what is going on. We need to go back to a system of barter and trade. That way everbody wins and so many talents and people with wonderful gifts and potential finally can DO something with their talents and LIVE without being CONTROLLED by the bankers!
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2010 01:38 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
When we put the thieves in charge of the money, it's like having the fox in charge of the hen house. It doesn't work.

It's like a river being dammed up by the guy in charge of the dam. He has control over how much water the people downstreem recieve. (we had this system of money back in 1980, it was called the trickle down theory) When the river runs free, there is a natural flow. There may be storms and drought, but we are all more in tune with nature and more in tune with ourselves. This may be the issue anyway. What is our collective consciousness about Money?
Anonymous Coward
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09/18/2010 02:48 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Faith = "The assured expectation of things not yet realized"

Hypnosis = "The idea defeats the will, and continues doing so"

Belief = "Memes are thought patterns which move via phenomes"

Money = Coins.

[link to news.yahoo.com]

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1086981
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09/19/2010 01:47 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Rememeber to search the word "goverrments" if you want to find the truth contained in this thread.

Ahyes the wreckage of the last 150 years. Something about college being useful?

It takes less than an hour to learn 99% of what hypnosis is. Probably takes ten minutes.

But it takes a lifetime to remove the cobwebs of trance which float gently down upon us all, over our lifetimes, without our knowing. So the trance state of paper money, is a gently falling spiderweb which lands on all of us.

"It is too much trouble to remove the spiderweb from my hair, shoulders, and everyone else has this silly spiderweb on them too, so what the hell. If spiderwebs were bad, then others would be wiping them off. [dissonate in 3.. 2..], actually it kinda looks good! Yeah, spiderwebs and are the new way!"
Anonymous Coward
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09/19/2010 03:27 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[link to www.thefreedictionary.com]

1. dissonate - be dissonant or harsh; "The violins in this piece dissonated disturbingly"
sound - give off a certain sound or sounds; "This record sounds scratchy"

2. dissonate - cause to sound harsh and unpleasant
disharmonize alter, change, modify - cause to change; make different; cause a transformation;
"The advent of the automobile may have altered the growth pattern of the city"; "The discussion has changed my thinking about the issue"
 Quoting: wordsarepowerandyouknowthat


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Amplitude fluctuations can be placed in three overlapping perceptual categories related to the rate of fluctuation. Slow amplitude fluctuations (≈≤20 per second) are perceived as loudness fluctuations referred to as beating. As the rate of fluctuation is increased, the loudness appears to be constant and the fluctuations are perceived as “fluttering” or roughness. As the amplitude fluctuation rate is increased further, the roughness reaches a maximum strength and then gradually diminishes until it disappears (≈≥75-150 fluctuations per second, depending on the frequency of the interfering tones).
 Quoting: Wiki


[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Dissonant counterpoint

Dissonant counterpoint was first theorized by Charles Seeger as "at first purely a school-room discipline," consisting of species counterpoint but with all the traditional rules reversed. First species counterpoint is required to be all dissonances, establishing "dissonance, rather than consonance, as the rule," and consonances are "resolved" through a skip, not step. He wrote that "the effect of this discipline" was "one of purification." Other aspects of composition, such as rhythm, could be "dissonated" by applying the same principle (Charles Seeger, "On Dissonant Counterpoint," Modern Music 7, no. 4 (June-July 1930): 25-26).

Seeger was not the first to employ dissonant counterpoint, but was the first to theorize and promote it. Other composers who have used dissonant counterpoint, if not in the exact manner prescribed by Charles Seeger, include Ruth Crawford-Seeger, Carl Ruggles, Henry Cowell, Henry Brant, Dane Rudhyar, Lou Harrison, Fartein Valen, and Arnold Schoenberg.
 Quoting: Wiki
Levi Philos
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09/20/2010 11:21 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Appreciate your feedback AC 1086981 and will review later; got business this Monday morn. Spells? Indeed. The phrase "word controlled humans" Where did I hear that? comes to mind... Richard Sutphen?

In the meantime, I advise one and all to download the Margrit Kennedy book Interest and Inflation Free Money from 1995 (only 57 pages)that she has put up on her website free.

[link to www.margritkennedy.de]

I find the growth curves pictured on page 7 to be of great interest. These curves and associated text triggered me to begin thinking about the differences between natural law and man's written law. About how deviances of written law from natural law telegraph and grow through the years until a breaking point whereafter natural law prevails.
Levi Philos
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09/20/2010 07:25 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In reactive response to 1086981:

Persuasion Techniques

Persuasion isn't technically brainwashing but it is the manipulation of the human mind by another individual, without the manipulated party being aware what caused his opinion shift. I only have time to very basically introduce you to a few of the thousands of techniques in use today, but the basis of persuasion is always to access your right brain. The left half of your brain is analytical and rational. The right side is creative and imaginative. That is overly simplified but it makes my point. So, the idea is to distract the left brain and keep it busy. Ideally, the persuader generates an eyes-open altered state of consciousness, causing you to shift from beta awareness into alpha; this can be measured on an EEG machine.

"Yes Set"

First, let me give you an example of distracting the left brain. Politicians use these powerful techniques all the time; lawyers use many variations which, I've been told, they call "tightening the noose."

Assume for a moment that you are watching a politician give a speech. First, he might generate what is called a "yes set." These are statements that will cause listeners to agree; they might even unknowingly nod their heads in agreement. Next come the truisms. These are usually facts that could be debated but, once the politician has his audience agreeing, the odds are in the politician's favor that the audience won't stop to think for themselves, thus continuing to agree. Last comes the suggestion. This is what the politician wants you to do and, since you have been agreeing all along, you could be persuaded to accept the suggestion. Now, if you'll listen closely to my political speech, you'll find that the first three are the "yes set," the next three are truisms and the last is the suggestion.

"Ladies and gentlemen: are you angry about high food prices? Are you tired of astronomical gas prices? Are you sick of out-of-control inflation? Well, you know the Other Party allowed 18 percent inflation last year; you know crime has increased 50 percent nationwide in the last 12 months, and you know your paycheck hardly covers your expenses any more. Well, the answer to resolving these problems is to elect me, John Jones, to the U.S. Senate."

Embedded Commands

And I think you've heard all that before. But you might also watch for what are called embedded commands. As an example: On key words, the speaker would make a gesture with his left hand, which research has shown is more apt to access your right brain. Today's media-oriented politicians and spellbinders are often carefully trained by a whole new breed of specialist who are using every trick in the book--both old and new--to manipulate you into accepting their candidate.

The Power of NLP

The concepts and techniques of Neuro-Linguistics [Programming] are so heavily protected that I found out the hard way that to even talk about them publicly or in print results in threatened legal action. Yet Neuro-Linguistic training is readily available to anyone willing to devote the time and pay the price. It is some of the most subtle and powerful manipulation I have yet been exposed to. A good friend who recently attended a two-week seminar on Neuro-Linguistics found that many of those she talked to during the breaks were government people.

Interspersal Technique

Another technique that I'm just learning about is unbelievably slippery; it is called an interspersal technique and the idea is to say one thing with words but plant a subconscious impression of something else in the minds of the listeners and/or watchers.

Practical Examples

Let me give you an example: Assume you are watching a television commentator make the following statement: Senator Johnson is assisting local authorities to clear up the stupid mistakes of companies contributing to the nuclear waste problems." It sounds like a statement of fact, but, if the speaker emphasizes the right word, and especially if he makes the proper hand gestures on the key words, you could be left with the subconscious impression that Senator Johnson is stupid. That was the subliminal goal of the statement and the speaker cannot be called to account for anything.

Persuasion techniques are also frequently used on a much smaller scale with just as much effectiveness. The insurance salesman knows his pitch is likely to be much more effective if he can get you to visualize something in your mind. This is right-brain communication [E.g. generates emotions]. For instance, he might pause in his conversation, look slowly around your livingroom and say, "Can you just imagine this beautiful home burning to the ground?" Of course you can! It is one of your unconscious fears and, when he forces you to visualize it, you are more likely to be manipulated into signing his insurance policy.

Shock and Confusion

The Hare Krishnas, operating in every airport, use what I call shock and confusion techniques to distract the left brain and communicate directly with the right brain. While waiting for a plane, I once watched one operate for over an hour. He had a technique of almost jumping in front of someone. Initially, his voice was loud then dropped as he made his pitch to take a book and contribute money to the cause. Usually, when people are shocked, they immediately withdraw. In this case they were shocked by the strange appearance, sudden materialization and loud voice of the Hare Krishna devotee. In other words, the people went into an alpha state for security because they didn't want to confront the reality before them.

In alpha, they were highly suggestible so they responded to the suggestion of taking the book; the moment they took the book, they felt guilty and responded to the second suggestion: give money. We are all conditioned that if someone gives us something, we have to give them something in return--in that case, it was money. While watching this hustler, I was close enough to notice that many of the people he stopped exhibited an outward sign of alpha--their eyes were actually dilated.

Subliminal Programming

Subliminals are hidden suggestions that only your subconscious perceives. They can be audio, hidden behind music, or visual, airbrushed into a picture, flashed on a screen so fast that you don't consciously see them, or cleverly incorporated into a picture or design.

Most audio subliminal reprogramming tapes offer verbal suggestions recorded at a low volume. I question the efficacy of this technique--if subliminals are not perceptible, they cannot be effective, and subliminals recorded below the audible threshold are therefore useless. The oldest audio subliminal technique uses a voice that follows the volume of the music so subliminals are impossible to detect without a parametric equalizer. But this technique is patented and, when I wanted to develop my own line of subliminal audiocassettes, negotiations with the patent holder proved to be unsatisfactory.

My attorney obtained copies of the patents which I gave to some talented Hollywood sound engineers, asking them to create a new technique. They found a way to psycho-acoustically modify and synthesize the suggestions so that they are projected in the same chord and frequency as the music, thus giving them the effect of being part of the music. But we found that in using this technique, there is no way to reduce various frequencies to detect the subliminals. In other words, although the suggestions are being heard by the subconscious mind, they cannot be monitored with even the most sophisticated equipment.

If we were able to come up with this technique as easily as we did, I can only imagine how sophisticated the technology has become, with unlimited government or advertising funding. And I shudder to think about the propaganda and commercial manipulation that we are exposed to on a daily basis. There is simply no way to know what is behind the music you hear. It may even be possible to hide a second voice behind the voice to which you are listening.

The series by Wilson Bryan Key, Ph.D., on subliminals in advertising and political campaigns well documents the misuse in many areas, especially printed advertising in newspapers, magazines, and posters.

The big question about subliminals is: do they work? And I guarantee you they do. Not only from the response of those who have used my tapes, but from the results of such programs as the subliminals behind the music in department stores. Supposedly, the only message is instructions to not steal: one East Coast department store chain reported a 37 percent reduction in thefts in the first nine months of testing.

A 1984 article in the technical newsletter, "Brain-Mind Bulletin," states that as much as 99 percent of our cognitive activity may be "non-conscious," according to the director of the Laboratory for Cognitive Psychophysiology at the University of Illinois. The lengthy report ends with the statement, "these findings support the use of subliminal approaches such as taped suggestions for weight loss and the therapeutic use of hypnosis and Neuro-Linguistic Programming."

Mass Misuse of Subliminal Programming

I could relate many stories that support subliminal programming, but I'd rather use my time to make you aware of even more subtle uses of such programming.

I have personally experienced sitting in a Los Angeles auditorium with over ten thousand people who were gathered to listen to a current charismatic figure. Twenty minutes after entering the auditorium, I became aware that I was going in and out of an altered state. Those accompanying me experienced the same thing. Since it is our business, we were aware of what was happening, but those around us were not. By careful observation, what appeared to be spontaneous demonstrations were, in fact, artful manipulations. The only way I could figure that the eyes-open trance had been induced was that a 6- to 7-cycle-per-second vibration was being piped into the room behind the air conditioner sound. That particular vibration generates alpha, which would render the audience highly susceptible. Ten to 25 percent of the population is capable of a somnambulistic level of altered states of consciousness; for these people, the suggestions of the speaker, if non-threatening, could potentially be accepted as "commands."

Vibrato

This leads to the mention of vibrato. Vibrato is the tremulous effect imparted in some vocal or instrumental music, and the cyle-per-second range causes people to go into an altered state of consciousness. At one period of English history, singers whose voices contained pronounced vibrato were not allowed to perform publicly because listeners would go into an altered state and have fantasies, often sexual in nature.

People who attend opera or enjoy listening to singers like Mario Lanza are familiar with this altered state induced by the performers.

Extra-low Frequency Vibrations (ELFs)

Now, let's carry this awareness a little farther. There are also inaudible ELFs (extra-low frequency waves). These are electromagnetic in nature. One of the primary uses of ELFs is to communicate with our submarines. Dr. Andrija Puharich, a highly respected researcher, in an attempt to warn U.S. officials about Russian use of ELFs, set up an experiment. Volunteers were wired so their brain waves could be measured on an EEG. They were sealed in a metal room that could not be penetrated by a normal signal.

Puharich then beamed ELF waves at the volunteers. ELFs go right through the earth and, of course, right through metal walls. Those inside couldn't know if the signal was or was not being sent. And Puharich watched the reactions on the technical equipment: 30 percent of those inside the room were taken over by the ELF signal in six to ten seconds.

When I say "taken over," I mean that their behavior followed the changes anticipated at very precise frequencies. Waves below 6 cycles per second caused the subjects to become very emotionally upset, and even disrupted bodily functions. At 8.2 cycles, they felt very high...an elevated feeling, as though they had been in masterful meditation, learned over a period of years. Eleven to 11.3 cycles induced waves of depressed agitation leading to riotous behavior.

[note from Ken Adachi:: Joe Vialls reported that the CIA and Air Force employed this technique using large dish transmitters beaming down from the back cargo ramps of C135 cargo planes to incite opposing tribal factions in Rwanda to become enraged and engage in mindless slaughter and barbarism]

The Neurophone

Dr. Patrick Flanagan is a personal friend of mine. In the early 1960s, as a teenager, Pat was listed as one of the top scientists in the world by "Life" magazine. Among his many inventions was a device he called the Neurophone--an electronic instrument that can successfully program suggestions directly through contact with the skin. When he attempted to patent the device, the government demanded that he prove it worked. When he did, the National Security Agency confiscated the neurophone. It took Pat two years of legal battle to get his invention back.

In using the device, you don't hear or see a thing; it is applied to the skin, which Pat claims is the source of special senses. The skin contains more sensors for heat, touch, pain, vibration, and electrical fields than any other part of the human anatomy.

In one of his recent tests, Pat conducted two identical seminars for a military audience--one seminar one night and one the next night, because the size of the room was not large enough to accommodate all of them at one time. When the first group proved to be very cool and unwilling to respond, Patrick spent the next day making a special tape to play at the second seminar. The tape instructed the audience to be extremely warm and responsive and for their hands to become "tingly." The tape was played through the neurophone, which was connected to a wire he placed along the ceiling of the room. There were no speakers, so no sound could be heard, yet the message was successfully transmitted from that wire directly into the brains of the audience. They were warm and receptive, their hands tingled and they responded, according to programming, in other ways that I cannot mention here.

Technological Tools for Mass Manipulation

The more we find out about how human beings work through today's highly advanced technological research, the more we learn to control human beings. And what probably scares me the most is that the medium for takeover is already in place. The television set in your livingroom and bedroom is doing a lot more than just entertaining you.

Before I continue, let me point out something else about an altered state of consciousness. When you go into an altered state, you transfer into right brain, which results in the internal release of the body's own opiates: enkephalins and Beta-endorphins, chemically almost identical to opium. In other words, it feels good...and you want to come back for more.

Recent tests by researcher Herbert Krugman showed that, while viewers were watching TV, right-brain activity outnumbered left-brain activity by a ratio of two to one. Put more simply, the viewers were in an altered state...in trance more often than not. They were getting their Beta-endorphin "fix."

To measure attention spans, psychophysiologist Thomas Mulholland of the Veterans Hospital in Bedford, Massachusetts, attached young viewers to an EEG machine that was wired to shut the TV set off whenever the children's brains produced a majority of alpha waves. Although the children were told to concentrate, only a few could keep the set on for more than 30 seconds!

Most viewers are already hypnotized. To deepen the trance is easy. One simple way is to place a blank, black frame every 32 frames in the film that is being projected. This creates a 45-beat-per-minute pulsation perceived only by the subconscious mind--the ideal pace to generate deep hypnosis.

The commercials or suggestions presented following this alpha-inducing broadcast are much more likely to be accepted by the viewer. The high percentage of the viewing audience that has somnambulistic-depth ability could very well accept the suggestions as commands--as long as those commands did not ask the viewer to do something contrary to his morals, religion, or self-preservation.

The medium for takeover is here. By the age of 16, children have spent 10,000 to 15,000 hours watching television--that is more time than they spend n school! In the average home, the TV set is on for six hours and 44 minutes per day--an increase of nine minutes from last year and three times the average rate of increase during the 1970s.

It obviously isn't getting better...we are rapidly moving into an alpha-level world--very possibly the Orwellian world of "1984"--placid, glassy-eyed, and responding obediently to instructions.

A research project by Jacob Jacoby, a Purdue University psychologist, found that of 2,700 people tested, 90 percent misunderstood even such simple viewing fare as commercials and "Barnaby Jones." Only minutes after watching, the typical viewer missed 23 to 36 percent of the questions about what he or she had seen. Of course they did--they were going in and out of trance! If you go into a deep trance, you must be instructed to remember--otherwise you automatically forget.

In Closing

I have just touched the tip of the iceberg. When you start to combine subliminal messages behind the music, subliminal visuals projected on the screen, hypnotically produced visual effects, sustained musical beats at a trance-inducing pace . . . you have extremely effective brainwashing. Every hour that you spend watching the TV set you become more conditioned. And, in case you thought there was a law against any of these things, guess again. There isn't! There are a lot of powerful people who obviously prefer things exactly the way they are. Maybe they have plans for...?
Levi Philos
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09/20/2010 07:28 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
That was Dick Sutphen circa 1995; don't know that you could find this anywhere.

Watching and listening to people closely -- I have wondered whether they have been subjected to some kind of NLP that renders them incapable of rational thinking about the monetary subject.
Levi Philos
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09/21/2010 09:44 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Prof. Dr Margrit Kennedy presentations: [link to www.margritkennedy.de]

Articles and interviews: [link to www.margritkennedy.de]
Levi Philos
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09/22/2010 10:34 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
An economic system is to the physical economy as a topographical map is to the physical geography. If you threw a topo map in a burning fireplace, would you look out the window expecting the rocks, roads, and marshlands to suddenly burst into flame?

All human needs are provided by the living; an inherited debt is an enslaving memepex that belongs in the circular file with the flat-earth maps.

The dead do not rise from the grave to serve food upon any table, nor do the yet unborn. All human society is a mutual support organization and all human needs are provided by the physically fit generally from the ages of 18 to 70.

Use the above as a starting point; ask yourself what is natural law and what is man's written law; what law is written simply to control people and what law reflects positively upon natural law.

Then, and only then, design your alternative money system.
Levi Philos
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09/23/2010 08:51 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
On this page: Thread: Would like to understand fellow members fears of Socialism. (Page 4)
and here: Thread: Why do Moran Hillbillies hate Socialism? (Page 9)

We find some exploration of the proper ownership of banks (or banking as an institution if you please).

Caja Laboral Popular Sociedad Cooperativa de Credito or Caja Laboral as conceived of and implemented by a young Jesuit priest José Arizmendiarrieta shortly after WWII.

The single most successful example of socialism in the world.
[link to en.wikipedia.org]

Yet socialists who derive their model from teachings of the Fabian society never mention what happened in this Basque region of Spain.

The facts have changed since then, but first let me give you some more highlights.

When a priest named Jos‚ Mar¡a Arizmendiarrieta first arrived at the Mondragón parish in 1941, he found a town devastated by the Spanish Civil War. Fascist forces under Franco had succeeded in deposing the democratically elected coalition government in the 1930s, leaving the Basque country, an antifascist stronghold, divided. Arizmendi (as the priest was known) set about rebuilding, establishing a vocational school for Mondragón's many working-class children who had no chance at education. Eventually, under his tutelage, five of the school's graduates went on to win engineering degrees and then, in 1956, start their own factory in Mondragón. This plant became the Fagor cooperative.

Because the Spanish economy was so isolated from the rest of the world during the Franco years, the co-ops' founders surmised that any high quality consumer product they could produce would find a ready market. They were right, and their domestic appliance company quickly generated strong profits. They reinvested these profits back into the business, reserving only a small portion for workers' own "capital accounts" which individuals could draw upon only when they left the co-op.

In 1958 the founders of Mondragón encountered a crisis when the Spanish government deemed the co-op members to be self-employed, and hence ineligible for government social security and unemployment benefits. The co-op turned this to their advantage by creating their own social security system that cost them less than the government one. They then used these benefits as seed money to start their own bank. Depositors flocked to the bank from the community, attracted by both its competitive interest rate and the knowledge that their deposits would be lent to the co-ops to create local jobs.

[link to www.dollarsandsense.org]
 Quoting: Tim Huet

It is in the books, but not even the authors seem to have recognized the salient factual action that set this cooperative apart from every other socialistic structure in the world.

When the charter for the bank was initially obtained from the Spanish government (over fraudulent counterfeiting of signatures by Arizmendi I must add), the founders debated and finally made the decision to subordinate the bank charter to the overall cooperative board.

This placed the bank and bank managers under ownership and control of the largest so-called "borrower" which was the cooperative. No more leveraged buyouts, no third world loans to tin-horn dictators. Bank profits were recycled within the cooperative for the benefit of the laboring class who owned the cooperative.

Update to the present; this structure was subsequently modified to a more "modern" model. The model of socialistic ownership of banking by the Mondragon Cooperative was true for about 30 to 40 years (I lack exact facts here), whereafter the financial fraternity wrestled it free from the subordinate model.

Going back to Tim Huet we read:
Over time, the bank's board of directors became the de facto governing body of the Mondragón co-op movement. The cooperative depositors and bank staff serving on its board ensured that the bank acted as both Mondragón's growth engine and linchpin of stability. They directed the bank's business division to help new co-ops form. Sometimes the bank did so by identifying a market opportunity and creating a new co-op from scratch. Other times its staff would help a larger co-op spin off a division to form a new, distinct cooperative in order to maintain its efficiency and democratic vigor. The bank encouraged these smaller co-ops to form groups that shared services in order to maximize economy of scale and marketing potential. In perhaps the most financially successful enterprise of this sort, the bank reorganized an assortment of consumer cooperatives into hybrid worker-consumer co-ops, and created a united retail chain which is now Spain's largest with annual sales amounting to $2.6 billion.

Because of such creative strategies, Mondragón's record of business creation is remarkable. Of the 103 cooperatives founded in the first three decades of the Mondragón Experience, from 1956 to 1986, only three closed. This is particularly impressive when you consider that the Basque region lost well over 100,000 jobs during Spain's deep ten-year recession that started in 1975. During that difficult time Mondragón co-ops actually added workers. In part, they were able to do this by retraining their workers and transferring them from depressed cooperatives to thriving ones. The bank also deserves credit for providing financial and managerial help to troubled co-ops that needed restructuring.
 Quoting: Tim Huet


Do your own search, and you can now discover that today Mondragon is in debt to international bankers.

They didn't understand what Arizmendi had done for them, and they threw it away.

I could write a book about this, but need to stop somewhere; Levi Philos
Levi Philos
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09/23/2010 10:11 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Tommy "Usury Free" Kennedy - Blog spot:

[link to usuryfree.blogspot.com]

Mr. Kennedy is from Ottawa Canada; image here:
[link to 2.bp.blogspot.com]
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 04:41 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Gang 8 yahoo message board is open to the public: [link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

What I find amusing is the lack of posts. About 30 posts in the past 75 days.

This is a group of PhDs. The stated description of the group at the home page is:

QUOTE

Description

The Gang8 mailing list is devoted to Creditary Economics; of credit, money, finance, debt and rent relationships, industrial policy, geopolitics etc. One purpose is to establish a foundation for financial theory based firmly on sound practice favouring a decent balance between real production and consumption. Regarding membership: Only "core members" may post based on invitation from older members. You may of course send letters to individual members of the group, for instance as an introduction of yourself. The "core member" may then forward these letters and eventually recommend you as a full member of the group. Not even "occasional" nor moderated letters from other members will be allowed to the group. You will therefore not be able to post letters to the group. Only the original members may do so. We started as out as a groups of friends and do not wish to grow big. However, the gang8plus list is open for everyone to post whatever they please: [link to groups.yahoo.com]

END QUOTE

Guess they didn't understand when I told them that interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a money system contains within itself the seeds of its own destruction.
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 04:53 AM
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Six posts of the last 30 are about economics; the last one August one. [link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

The last post links to a serious piece from the Fed of St Louis - 24 pages: [link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

The actual piece is found here: [link to www.scribd.com]

Abstract

In this paper I discuss the possibility that the U.S. economy may become enmeshed in a Japanese-style, de‡ationary outcome within the next several years. To frame the discussion, I rely on an analysis that emphasizes two possible long-run outcomes (steady states) for the economy, one which is consistent with monetary policy as it has typically been implemented in the U.S. in recent years, and one which is consistent with the low nominal interest rate, de‡ationary regime observed in Japan during the same period. The data I consider seem to be quite consistent with the two steady state possibilities. I describe and critique seven stories that are told in monetary policy circles re- garding this analysis. I emphasize two main conclusions: (1) The FOMC’s extended period language may be increasing the probabil- ity of a Japanese-style outcome for the U.S., and (2) on balance, the U.S. quantitative easing program o¤ers the best tool to avoid such an outcome.JEL codes: E4, E5.

Author James Bullard, title Seven Faces of Peril

What is happening is two rules are coming into play:
1) liquidity preference (public wants to be liquid - whatever it takes &
2)zero point (public refuses to borrow unless interest is at or close to zero - they want to avoid any debt that might be difficult to repay)
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 05:03 AM
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GOOD MONEY, written by George Selgin, $30 - 368 pages: [link to www.independent.org]

Birmingham Button Makers, the Royal Mint, and the Beginnings of Modern Coinage, 1775-1821

Review: In Good Money, George Selgin tells the fascinating story of the important yet almost unknown episode in the history of money—British manufacturers’ challenge to the Crown’s monopoly on coinage.

In the 1780s, when the Industrial Revolution was gathering momentum, the Royal Mint failed to produce enough small-denomination coinage for factory owners to pay their workers. As the currency shortage threatened to derail industrial progress, manufacturers began to mint custom-made coins, called “tradesman’s tokens.” Rapidly gaining wide acceptance, these tokens served as the nation’s most popular currency for wages and retail sales until 1821, when the Crown outlawed all moneys except its own.

Good Money not only examines the crucial role of private coinage in fueling Great Britain’s Industrial Revolution, but it also challenges beliefs upon which all modern government-currency monopolies rest. It thereby sheds light on contemporary private-sector alternatives to government-issued money, such as digital monies, cash cards, electronic funds transfer, and (outside of the United States) spontaneous “dollarization.”
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 05:09 AM
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A discussion of behavioral economics: [link to www.altruists.org]

Relates to this Is Depression a Healthy reaction to a Sick Society? : [link to www.altruists.org]

QUOTE

Maslow's hierarchy of needs predicts that if securely fed and housed, people's well-being depends less on material goods, more on factors such as good relationships with and love of others. However, most people are in the thrall of an economic system that ignores this fact, punishes generosity but rewards unnatural selfishness. This results in cognitive dissonance, because people feel forced to do things of which they disapprove, leaving them feeling guilty, disempowered and depressed. This would seem to explain why depression is booming even amidst materially prospering populations. Although a human tragedy, this epidemic of depression is a boon for the economy, since consumer culture feeds off people's low self-esteem by encouraging self-indulgence and escapism, resulting in a vicious circle of increasing consumption and decreasing well-being.

We believe many depressive symptoms are a natural response of the mind to an unhealthy, unsustainable, diseased and generally distressed society. Many of those who dismiss it as being an 'illness' of the brain, are sadly mistaken, others cynically exploiting it for their own benefit. Among the chief causes are the priority given to the competitive money system which discourages healthy human relationships to the point where, starved of friendship, some people even question the validity of loving others. Altruism is a side-effect free, natural way to cope with depressive symptoms and to live a longer, healthier and happier life.

END QUOTE

(go to the link as some of the words in the two paragraphs are linked to other writing at the altruist site)
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 09:41 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Paul Krugman September 25, 2010, 8:38 am: "Default Is In Our Stars

... when everyone tries to pay down debt at the same time, the result is a depressed economy and falling inflation, which cause the ratio of debt to income to rise if anything. That is, we’re living in a world in which the twin paradoxes of thrift and deleveraging hold, and hence in which individual virtue ends up being collective vice.

So what will happen? In the end, I’d argue, what must happen is an effective default on a significant part of debt, one way or another. The default could be implicit, via a period of moderate inflation that reduces the real burden of debt...


Link: [link to krugman.blogs.nytimes.com]
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 09:46 AM
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I recommend this book; here is a synopsis: [link to www.independent.org]

TOO BRIEF OF AN EXCERPT:

A Dearth of Good Coin

The prologue that opens Good Money takes readers to the Welsh island of Anglesey, in the summer of 1787, where a copper miner is handed his weekly earnings only to find that they consist, not of official coins, but mainly of coins minted by his boss. They are called Parys Mine Druids, and they are only the first of many such private copper coins to come, which will supply the bulk of Great Britain’s small change for the next, crucial decade of its Industrial Revolution.

Chapter One, “Britain’s Big Problem,” explains why Great Britain’s official eighteenth-century coinage arrangements weren’t capable of supporting the needs of an industrial economy. The chapter reviews the flawed policies that caused the Royal Mint to suspend copper coin production altogether while reducing silver coinage to a mere trickle. It also recalls employers’ desperate efforts, legal and illegal, to get around the coin shortage, and how those efforts backfired by leaving workers feeling more exploited than ever.

The next chapter, “Druids, Willeys, and Beehives,” introduces Great Britain’s pioneer commercial coin makers and issuers, including Thomas “Copper King” Williams (who made the Parys Mine Druids), “Iron” John Wilkinson, and “Lunar Man” Matthew Boulton—three leading figures in Great Britain’s Industrial Revolution. It explores their true motives for getting involved in coining. (Boulton, for one, was hardly the altruistic anti-counterfeiting crusader most other authorities have made him out to be.) It also tells the rather sad story of John Westwood, one of the lesser-known private coinage pioneers.

“Soho!” tells the story of Matthew Boulton’s celebrated Soho factory and mint. When it was completed in 1789 the Soho mint (actually the first of several Soho mints) was the most sophisticated and costly mint in the world—far more sophisticated and costly than any government mint. Boulton, who was something of a megalomaniac, built it in anticipation of coining for the government, but ended up having to wait ten agonizing years before getting permission. In the meantime, he became a major producer of commercial coins.

A Commercial Coinage Regime

GO TO THE LINK; EVEN THE SYNOPSIS IS OF GOOD INTEREST
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 11:25 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
We were all influenced by the book: The Sovereign Individual written by Lord William Rees-Mogg and James Dale Davidson.

This book showed the promise of cutting the pirates out of the picture through the use of digitally encrypted financial exchange.
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Generally speaking, the decentralization of power will (can) follow the decentralization of money. Simple coin passed hand to hand only gives a partial answer.

The recognition of a mutual credit model together with a model for the hypothecation of promissory notes is necessary to fill a complete alternative money system.

Here is Robin Upton again with some hints: [link to www.robinupton.com]
and [link to www.robinupton.com]

from the decentralization list: [link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]
Levi Philos
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09/27/2010 11:39 AM
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Robin Upton on Time:

If Time is money then how come people in rich countries tend to have so little?

I believe that for a lot of people - most people in Europe and North America, for example - time is more of a scarce resource than money.

Although about 4 orders of magnitude less popular,
chronological planning would therefore seem to me more important than financial planning...

[link to www.robinupton.com]

Levi Philos on time as money: When time is money and money is time and it costs money demurrage to waste time, people will value their time differently and with deeper consideration.
Levi Philos
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09/29/2010 12:06 AM
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Nice bunch of economic related cartoons:

[link to usawatchdog.com]

This writer (Greg Hunter) predicts worse is coming.
Levi Philos
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09/29/2010 12:08 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Ethics of Liberty by Murray Rothbard:

[link to mises.org]

336 pages





GLP