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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
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01/16/2011 12:34 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
A You Tube search for Bernard Lietaer: [link to www.youtube.com]


he Future of Money. Bernard Lietaer 2012 Time for Change Presents Part1

[link to www.youtube.com]

Part one of at least three parts
Levi Philos
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01/16/2011 04:11 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The word "demurrage" as pronounced by the average American is a very negative sounding word.

American English: [link to www.howjsay.com]

It is more effective if pronounced like Lietaer does in this video: [link to www.youtube.com]

dema like the beginning of demolition if it were spelled demalition

murrage pronounced like mirage with the emphasis on the last portion thus;

de-mir-agge (short a as in father)(the two g(s) like a drawn out j)

*****************************************

That Lietaer video is number one of three, here are 2 & 3:

(2) [link to www.youtube.com]

(3) [link to www.youtube.com]

Time to leave this stone age model behind...
Levi Philos
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01/16/2011 09:36 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Kirk MacKenzie on Debt as Money; part one of an eight part series:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Associated with these websites: [link to www.warnthepeople.org]

and: [link to www.silentnomorepublications.com] where there is an image file of Mr. MacKenzie
Levi Philos
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01/16/2011 10:01 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This piece on Corporate State Socialism sheds light on the topic: [link to www.strike-the-root.com]

Centralized Banking and centralized power form a symbiotic pair; neither can exist without the other.

Decentralize the money into a mutual credit model, and you will also decentralize power.
Levi Philos
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01/16/2011 10:30 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Kirk MacKenzie is associated with this website: [link to www.warnthepeople.org]
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


In video part two Mr MacKenzie does a good job in showing how the declining value of the fed note creates the illusion of an increase of equitable value of a home. I have tried to do this several times but most of the time it goes over the heads of readers.

GOOD JOB MR MACKENZIE!
Levi Philos
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01/17/2011 08:51 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Kirk MacKenzie; two presentations:

[link to www.youtube.com]

One hour five minutes; very effective.

[link to www.youtube.com]

One hour seven minutes; have not yet watched, but based on the first one has to be worth while.

His material is on par with Ed Griffin's material and is better in presentation than Bill Still's material.

Kirk MacKenzie's channel: [link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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01/20/2011 12:02 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Value of United States Currency in Circulation

[link to www.visualeconomics.com]
Levi Philos
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01/20/2011 12:27 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In reference to posts from AC 1228549 about mind control and trance states; here are three related stories;

Two stories from the UK: Nudge, nudge, wink wink... How the Government wants to change the way we think

Martin Hickman lifts the lid on the secret Whitehall policy unit dreaming up psychological tricks to alter our behaviour


[link to www.independent.co.uk]

Same writer from the UK, but this story is more generalized and applies everywhere: The uncomfortable truth about mind control: Is free will simply a myth?

In the Sixties, a groundbreaking series of experiments found that 65 per cent of us would kill if ordered to do so.


[link to www.independent.co.uk]

10 Modern Methods of Mind Control, by Nicholas West, Dec 31: [link to www.activistpost.com]
Levi Philos
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01/20/2011 10:23 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Is Freud correct? Sex and reproduction is a primary social drive...?

Payment for sex in a macaque mating market

In primate sexual relationships, males and females can cooperate through social trade. Market-like trading of sexual activity has been theorized, but no data have yet been presented that clearly show its existence. I collected data to test whether biological market theory could account for exchanges of male-to-female grooming and sexual activity in longtailed macaques. I explored male-to-female grooming, rates of sexual activity, and grooming–mating interchanges, which were male-to-female grooming bouts that directly involved mating. Male-to-female grooming mainly occurred when females were sexually active, and males groomed females longer per bout when mating, inspection, or presentation of female hindquarters was involved. Moreover, male-to-female grooming was associated with an increase in female rates for all forms of sexual activity, where in contrast, female-to-male grooming was associated with decreased rates of mating in the groomed males. Males did not preferentially mate with swollen females or invest more grooming in them during grooming–mating interchanges, as swellings did not seem to be a reliable indicator of female fertility. Rank status was correlated with grooming payment during grooming–mating interchanges in favour of higher-ranked males and females. In support of a biological market interpretation, the amount of grooming a male performed on a female during grooming–mating interchanges was related to the current supply of females around the interaction. The results provided evidence of a grooming–mating trade that was influenced by a mating market.
 Quoting: Abstract


They want $31.50 for the full piece. Follow the links from here: [link to muckadungdungfooshoyubillygoat.wordpress.com]

Thanks to Anonymous Coward 1237029 and his summation here: Thread: Do you think we could have a world without a monetary system (Page 2)
Anonymous Coward
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01/20/2011 10:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In reference to posts from AC 1228549 about mind control and trance states; here are three related stories;
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Thanks yo! I have a new AC number now, but I appreciate that you are seeing the point: You need to affect awareness in the sleepwalkers if you are going to wake them up properly.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1228549
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01/20/2011 10:37 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In reference to posts from AC 1228549 about mind control and trance states; here are three related stories;


Thanks yo! I have a new AC number now, but I appreciate that you are seeing the point: You need to affect awareness in the sleepwalkers if you are going to wake them up properly.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1228549


Whoops, still the same one I guess, but I've had three or four in this thread.

Yes, in the other thread about "can we have a world without monetary system" there is the great point being approached: All beliefs shared by a group, are what gives the belief power. If there is buy-in, then people will make it work. So essentially if you can negotiate the "wake up terms" of the sleepwalkers, then they can not miss a step, and particularly, those who would direct the sleepwlaker toward the stairs, will be prevented.

There is always those who sidle up next to the sleepwalking mass of economic humans, and subtly touch their elbow, to guide their foot off onto the steps. They plan to siphon the blood and pain from the crushed sleepwalker at the bottom of the stairs.

The siphoning of the economic blood, from the crushed sleepwalker, is how fortunes are made in our world.

Good stuff Levi Philos, your name means Priest of Wisdom and you are living up to it.
Anonymous Coward
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01/20/2011 04:27 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Is Freud correct? Sex and reproduction is a primary social drive...?
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Freud published his work on Moses and Akhenaten first in German, around 1936. I believe this was a serious trigger to the actions of the German rabbi population and all that followed as to their flocks.

So Freud, most defiantly affected the world economy, by his last published work. I believe I can make this case stronger here in this thread, if anyone challenged or encourages me to do so. Yes, this one psychologist got the world so upset that the struggle for the world-crown was engaged, aka, WW2, which you can call the largest global bloodletting in history. Freud existed before people really "woke up" to the reality of hypnosis. In fact WW2 was conducted almost entirely with entranced subjects.

Now that we have the groundbreaking work which has been done on modalities, memes and paradigms, then our own minds are basically now, ours. Prior to this great communicative age, we could not even have imagined today being one of understanding the global trance states and pervasive memes.

But I think Freud was truly prescient in regards to how the psychosis of not just Shicklegruber Hitler would play out, but also the Thule Society itself. Trance states are what fortunes are built on, the question is simply, who are the entrancers and what "bright light" do they keep your gaze fixed on and your fingers activating?

Every time a person touches a dollar, they know it is real, it has value. But that state of mind is as fragile as a piece of paper. So if that person holds one dollar all their life, then the trance will be stronger, so the FRN "dollar" for this past 100 years post-woodrow era, has been a powerful thing. But if anyone introduce rot, then any wood, or currency, can be debauched. So a better question would be: Today, which nation has the people who have the better trance state? Surely it is the US people who feel that their paper is more magical. But do they themselves realize that the strength of their belief in the money, creates an overwhelming force where evil seeks to deflate or debauch it? It is similar to how Hitler's forces would force their prisoners to humiliate themselves or act badly toward their fellows. I think prison behavior is the same if its Auschwitz, Attica or Stanford. Eventually a corrupt state of mind will be reached within the guard population as well as the inmates.
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 09:42 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
From page one: Thread: World needs $100 trillion more credit, says World Economic Forum World needs $100 trillion more credit, says World Economic Forum

So let me get this straight. Humans make up an imaginary money system and the world needs more credit for our imaginary system? And in turn this made up system, which has no relevance in nature or the universe, causes agony and despair.....I swear this shit is so freaking stupid. Think I'm gonna go out and invent some new money tomorrow, I'll call it Jeros. And then on Saturday when i run out of it I'm gonna totally freak out and start panicking.
 Quoting: jvghouston


Then Australian AC chimes in:

think of 'credit' as one hour of human time.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1225353


Susano:

Me too. You only need growth when you're running a Ponzi scheme.
 Quoting: Susano


I believe the word "Jeros" refers to a circle. Actually a decent suggestion as the intent is to "circulate" the new currency.
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 09:55 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
First posted on: Aug 9th, 2004, 11:18am on the forum Strike the Root. Forum gone. Posted again on Gold is Money dot info - forum gone. Again on Sui Juris - forum gone.

*** LEARN FROM THIS PEOPLE; MAINTAIN YOUR OWN ARCHIVE ***
 
Subject: Time as Money and The Time Value of Time
 
Who am I to argue with multimillionaire real estate investor A.D. Kessler when he says in his book A FORTUNE AT YOUR FEET (millennium edition) chapter 5 TIME AND MONEY on page 62:
 
The concept of value has meaning only when it's linked to the concept of time. If you were to ask an aging, sickly billionaire what his most valuable possession is, he would most likely answer, "The time I have left." In the face of limited time, no amount of money, no possessions have any significant value, if indeed they have any value at all. In 1813, John Randolph said: "Time is at once the most valuable and the most perishable of all our possessions."
 
Time - dear, sweet, precious time - is the only resource of any intrinsic value at all. This book would be of no value to you without the time it takes to read it. The information in it would be of no value to you without the time you need to put it to work. Nothing has any value without time. If you want to learn how to build wealth, you have to learn how to increase and concentrate value. The critical aspect of doing that is knowing the use and value of time. And, in particular, you must be responsible for effective use of your time.
 
YOUR TIME IS VALUABLE
 
One of the most often used but incorrect statements is "time is money." Time costs money. Time is worth money. But time is not at all like money. You can't earn it, save it, or earn interest on it. You can't store it to use for a rainy day, lend it, or borrow it. You can't multiply it, invest it in order to make a profit, leverage it, or manipulate it.
 
No matter how rich or industrious you are, no matter how poor and lazy, you only have 60 seconds to a minute, 60 minutes to an hour, and 24 hours to a day. I don't care how hard you work, you 'll never get more than that. Money can be increased, time can't.
 
If you have a few dollars you don't need right now, you can save them and use them another day. Not so with time. If you have a few extra hours, you must spend them when you have them.
 
There are ways to multiply, leverage and manage your money to accumulate more than the next person. But no amount of manipulation will get you more seconds in this minute than anyone else has.
 
There is always talk, especially among busy people, of "time management."
 
END OF AD KESSLER QUOTE
 
Jim Croce's version of "Time in a Bottle" went:
 
If I could save time in a bottle
The first thing that I'd like to do
Is to save every day like a treasure
And then again
I would spend them with you
 
Second verse omitted.
 
XXXX used the line "The time value of money must be considered."
 
These arguments about the time value of money used by all economists are rooted in concepts deriving from money as cattle or money as seeds as root metaphors.
 
However, bank credit money, where new money is created out of thin air in a process of double entry bookkeeping is neither cattle nor seed. Credit money should carry only an administrative charge upon original creation and a monthly administration fee. IT COSTS NO MORE TO CREATE DOUBLE ENTRY BOOKKEEPING MONEY FOR $200,000 THAN FOR $20!
 
The economists are using mix and match money arguments. Learn to detect the difference. Credit money is not cattle nor seed nor gold.
 
We have all heard the expression "time is money" but how then would time be properly represented in a symbolic fashion?
 
Time is already symbolically represented by the clock on the wall or by a time punch card at factories.
 
The Ithaca Hour can be thought of as a symbolic representation of time as money.
 
How valuable is your time?
 
What span of years has God given you?
 
Can George Soros with all the credit money of the world actually effect a transfer of your time such that next week you will only get 167 hours and he gets 169 hours?
 
How much gold would it take to buy an extra year into your life?
 
But your time is constantly slipping away. Lost time is lost opportunity. Who among you can go back to last week and retrieve an hour whiled away?
 
Would the "carry tax" apply to a symbolic representation of time? Should this be applied to running the system and to charity?
 
Time cannot be rounded up and held out of circulation. YOU ARE THE WAREHOUSE REPOSITORY FOR YOUR TIME. YOUR TIME IS MORE VALUABLE THAN GOLD. Where is your cookie jar where you keep your unused time? Can you reach back into yesterday to retrieve the time you wasted?
 
The only proper way to symbolically represent time is as something that constantly slips away.
 
Demurraged time could be used to support the symbol creation process. In order of allocation, the demurrage fee should go 1st 10% to charity thus meeting Islamic Zakat and Christian tithing, next to meet costs of administration, and anything left after administration cost is met should also go to charity.
 
PPP in economic jargon stands for purchase power parity.
 
If you do a search for this topics and another search for quantity theory of money, and then factor in velocity, the following deductions may be provable.
 
My assumptions include (1) PPP is a worthy goal, (2) All the gold gurus ever really wanted was a stable price structure, (3) Stable price structure derives directly from the quantity of money available, and (4) Velocity is the least controllable factor but is also important to the overall calculation.
 
Trying the impute these factors into a simplistic example, I come up with this supposition:
 
Suppose the circulating media were time symbols such as the Ithaca Hour, then the only quantity factor calculation necessary is exactly how many notes per capita shall be issued and maintained in constant circulation. This number might be maintained against all humans, or only those of a "productive adult age" whatever that exactly means.
 
Then, in a stable quantity environment, factor 3, stable price structure should happen but factor 4, velocity is still uncontrolled.
 
One of my suggestions has been to provide for the cost of running such a symbolic time system is to introduce demurrage to the time symbol by the use of point of purchase cash box technology where the demurrage is collected by all redeeming merchants much like a sales tax is administered.
 
Factor 4, velocity might be controlled by altering the demurrage rate.
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 10:45 AM
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Man's Time, expressed symbolically is not subject to taxation 

TITLE 15 > CHAPTER 1 > § 17

§ 17. Antitrust laws not applicable to labor organizations

The labor of a human being is not a commodity or article of commerce. Nothing contained in the antitrust laws shall be construed to forbid the existence and operation of labor, agricultural, or horticultural organizations, instituted for the purposes of mutual help, and not having capital stock or conducted for profit, or to forbid or restrain individual members of such organizations from lawfully carrying out the legitimate objects thereof; nor shall such organizations, or the members thereof, be held or construed to be illegal combinations or conspiracies in restraint of trade, under the antitrust laws.

On another list, I made inquiry whether anyone knew whether a man's labor could be looked at legally as though it were property.


These cases of law were referred to me. I believe they show some justification for labor collateralized as Hours.


Coppage v. Kansas 236 US 1


Included in the right of personal liberty and the right of private property ... is the right to make contracts for the acquisition of property. Chief among such contracts is that of personal employment, by which labor and other services are exchanged for money or other forms of property.


Meyer v. Nebraska, 262 US 390, 399, 400


... the liberty thus guaranteed ... denotes not merely freedom from bodily restraint but also the right of the individual to contract, to engage in any of the common occupations of life, to acquire useful knowledge, to marry, establish a home and bring up children, to worship God according to the dictates of his own conscience. ....established doctrine is that his liberty may not be interfered with..


Murdock v. Pennsylvania, 319 US 105, 113 (1943)


A state may not impose a charge for the enjoyment of a right granted by the Federal Constitution.


BUTCHERS' UNION CO. v. CRESCENT CITY CO., 111 U.S. 746 (1884)


[link to caselaw.lp.findlaw.com]


"the property which every man has in his own labor, as it is the original foundation of all other property, so it is the most sacred and inviolable."

I have more cites of law - withheld for brevity.
Anonymous Coward
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01/21/2011 10:59 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[...]

How valuable is your time?
 
What span of years has God given you?
 
Can George Soros with all the credit money of the world actually effect a transfer of your time such that next week you will only get 167 hours and he gets 169 hours?
 
How much gold would it take to buy an extra year into your life?
 
But your time is constantly slipping away. Lost time is lost opportunity. Who among you can go back to last week and retrieve an hour whiled away?
 
Would the "carry tax" apply to a symbolic representation of time? Should this be applied to running the system and to charity?
 
Time cannot be rounded up and held out of circulation. YOU ARE THE WAREHOUSE REPOSITORY FOR YOUR TIME. YOUR TIME IS MORE VALUABLE THAN GOLD. Where is your cookie jar where you keep your unused time? Can you reach back into yesterday to retrieve the time you wasted?
 
The only proper way to symbolically represent time is as something that constantly slips away.
 
Demurraged time could be used to support the symbol creation process. In order of allocation, the demurrage fee should go 1st 10% to charity thus meeting Islamic Zakat and Christian tithing, next to meet costs of administration, and anything left after administration cost is met should also go to charity.
 
[...]
 
Suppose the circulating media were time symbols such as the Ithaca Hour, then the only quantity factor calculation necessary is exactly how many notes per capita shall be issued and maintained in constant circulation.
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Brilliant ideas and phrasing there. Very nice work. I snipped and bolded your post so I could highlight my favorite parts.

Zakat has as one of its goals, financial support of militants, and I don't think that should be part of religion, and I realize that tithing might also somehow affect Christian zealotry. Neither of these should funnel time or labor to the militant religious machine. I have explained how COTUS amendments create black markets and how trance states are pervasive, so let us smash these collective entrancements called tithing and zakat and whatever the third arm of Abraham calls their charity. Well actually, any religion which allows it followers to lend at interest is in direct contradiction to the Cornucopian Amendment philosophy which would surely take the Master's instructions "You recieved free, give free" to mean that lending at interest and getting rich off foreclosure, repossession, etc, is not a righteous method. Anyone who gives their time/labor to militant theocrats (of any flavor) or their soldiers, is not right. Anyone who uses economic methods to defraud their fellowman or to bring warfare to his neighborhood or area, is not right.
Anonymous Coward
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01/21/2011 11:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Without a government, social contracts would spring up unto someone with more than another would have more to trade, but less to seek. They'll gain power over others and you will soon gain a government.

And money is another form of service for a service. How would you get food without trading for something? How would you trade for anything, without something?
You won't be able to, and the poor would die off. The middle class would slowly become poor, and die off. The rich would have everything, until they started drifting into wars to captures what others have.

If you are proposing anarchy, that is what you will get. If you are proposing a true form of communism, you will never get it. Humans are not ants, and never will be. And even ants are controlled by a leader.
 Quoting: Zerocyber


And this catch 22 is why we need Jesus.

I'm serious. There is no hope for mankind on its own. If you set up a utopic society, it will eventually rot from the inside out simply due to the nature of man (original sin).

I've pondered this quite a bit. There is no true answer to mankinds problems. There is no perfect form of government or society. It will all turn corrupt over time.

Only until the return of Christ will everything be set to rights.



.
Anonymous Coward
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01/21/2011 11:36 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
But your time is constantly slipping away. Lost time is lost opportunity. Who among you can go back to last week and retrieve an hour whiled away?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1228549



Transhumanism.

Man + machine.

Nature + science.

Living forever.

This is the ultimate goal of the elites.




.
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Stimulus Writ Small: Tiny California Town Prints Its Own Currency


Josh Freeman of North Fork, CA sure took President Obama’s talk about providing help to “Main Street, not Wall Street” seriously. The tiny town of 2,400 people, located near Yosemite National Park, sits in a county with a staggering 15.7 percent unemployment rate. Seeing his town struggle, Freeman did what any red-blooded American would do: create his own currency. North Fork Shares, emblazoned with pictures of a butterflies and hummingbirds, are worth $12 per share, and are available in half and quarter shares.
 Quoting: Keith Wagstaff


More at the link: [link to utopianist.com]
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 12:08 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Congratulations 1228549 on knowing or learning about Islamic Zakat. I personally lack detail about Zakat and tend to view it as a variety of tithing.

Perhaps I have oversimplified in that matter...

That post has been viewed by hundreds and you are only the second person to make comment on the Zakat matter.

And I need to get off my butt and get at a nasty job today.
Anonymous Coward
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01/21/2011 12:26 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Congratulations 1228549 on knowing or learning about Islamic Zakat. I personally lack detail about Zakat and tend to view it as a variety of tithing.

Perhaps I have oversimplified in that matter...

That post has been viewed by hundreds and you are only the second person to make comment on the Zakat matter.

And I need to get off my butt and get at a nasty job today.
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


Thanks!

Yes, it's the Executive who used the term, the video is on youtubes and people have listed what Zakat is, part of it is financing the military theocrats.

Yeah, military theocrats are as bad as any other gang. I think Jesus is the better of all religious benefactors simply because of his hands off approach and his description of him as Phos Anthropos, aka the light inside all humankind. Jesus refused to become a military theocrat and I think all of his followers should do likewise, and therefore it is then up to the Mohammedans and the Judaist/Talmudists to similarly reject warlike theocracy. Tyranny comes in many flavors, all of which are distasteful to The Master. No godly person can be okay with war as it stands, where children and grannies are used as human shields. That's just bullshit.

But I think if your thread here has its desired effect, perhaps the financial gap in each religion can be bridged? So the Mohammedan group has their gap of poor vs. rich, and the Christians have their gap of poor vs. rich and the Hindu and the Judean likewise. But what about that gap in the Buddhist or Jainist or Bahai church? Can we not evaluate each theocratic organization as to its own disparity in wealth, within itself?

In analyzing work versus time as economic stuff, we must see each body of people, be it institutional, corporate, scholastic, foundational, religious, charitable, etc, etc, ALL of these, must be seen each as a tree. Each has sap, has fruit of product, and has roots which can be immediately severed if the tree produces bad fruit. Now please realize that if a bad tree be killed, the persons employed in its branches would also need to self-evaluate as to why they fostered and gave themselves to that evil tree. Why did they spend their labor to produce bad fruit?

I cannot tell you what we can do with fraudulent and diffracted internally non-integrated people. I mean there is a lot of mental problems which are not getting sufficient dignity and skill applied to them. In fact, the world is built to produce more generational angst. So if you have ten evil scientists who cannot be rehabilitated, or if you have ten theocratic tards who will not lay down the weapons to make a better world, well, these two problems seem similar. One has the elites, the atheist scientists, who are supremely able to screw up our world on one hand, and then we have the theocrats, who though being comparatively poor by comparison, are numerous and fearsome in their stupidity. But I say these two groups need not continue to hold Earth in flux. We can develop ways to commoditize our labor such that neither evil scientists nor militarized theocratic tards, can undo the good.
Anonymous Coward
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01/21/2011 03:15 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Along with trance states and natural human hypocrisy in regards to their leaders, we should also discuss the "laundering" or "making clean" of money.

How does it get washed and why does it need washing?
Levi Philos
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01/21/2011 06:54 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Silvio Gesell THE NATURAL ECONOMIC ORDER

Haven't checked all these links today, but:

[link to www.scribd.com]

[link to userpage.fu-berlin.de]

Charles Eisenstein Money and the Crisis of Civilization
[link to www.realitysandwich.com]

Gesell [link to www.youtube.com] (about 4.5 minutes)

System Failure (in German): [link to www.systemfehler.de]


Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds - Charles Mackay

[link to www.econlib.org]

Or, download the book: [link to www.gutenberg.org]

We can’t solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them. Learn to think outside the box; and solutions appear. You have been taught to stay inside the box; even to repair the walls of your own prison cell in your mind. (Nobody particular intended). If you find yourself repeating former approaches, give yourself a wack along side the head - or perhaps inside the head - and come up with some original solutions.


If bridge engineers were as locked into their thinking as monetarists, we would still be using the same set of plans as used to build "Galloping Gertie" the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

[link to www.nwrain.com]

A money system is really no different than a set of plans for a bridge or any other structure. If certain engineered harmonics are a cause of failure, throw the plans out and build without the harmonics. That is what the bridge engineers did, and that is what monetary engineers must do.

Fundamental errors exist in monetary belief systems that date back thousands of years. The first loans were often bred cows and/or seed, and to ask for a return on such a loan is completely rational, but when the money became more symbolic in nature the presumption that money should behave like cows and seed and grow and multiply remained. After all, you could always go out and dig up more gold and silver...

But what Gesell revealed to the world about 1919 was that most products of man's efforts do not grow nor multiply but in fact suffer from the ravages of time and lose value. Gesell explained how money symbols should symbolically also show loss of value over time.

The presumption that money is a "thing" evolves from confusing the symbol with the reality. We don't confuse the paper map with the geography it represents and likewise, we shouldn't confuse the money system with the physical economy. A money system is simply an extension of language by means of symbols and contracts to rationalize the allocation of resources and the ownership of products of man's intellectual and physical labor. A concept of "debt" is equally an attempt to equitably distribute ownership and future labor in exchange for past labor of other humans. The concept that debt should be allowed to grow is one of those "extraordinary popular delusions" that has migrated into a public memeplex.

Financiers everywhere try to carry on the tradition of multiplying and growing the money symbols without regard to any knowledge that the symbols themselves are no more than markers on the map depicting the true economic landscape.

Signed by a surveyor of the economic landscape who is trying to correct past errors

Levi Philos
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1228549
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01/22/2011 03:54 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
There are two things needed to do something. A human, and a tool for that human to use. The greatest tool of our day, applicable across a huge spectrum of science and work, is that most modern tool called, "software".

This software, allows man to resolve problems that are beyond him Also, software either works or doesn't and is easily portable forward, if written correctly. Meaning simply, a person can write a program which another person can then build 100 further software programs, upon. So each program correctly written, is not only a "problem solved", for that programmer and also all who get to view the code but is more truly a rung upon a ladder. This ladder with each software-rung is designed such that it allows the whole hand of humanity to be placed on each rung, and thereby climb upward.

With each bit of use mankind makes of of this tool called software, the whole body of humankind becomes exponentially more enabled and climbs higher. To be enabled means to be able to solve "problems", Hence, we are in an age of software, and that cannot be denied. It is the age of software, that we live in. What I mean is that software as such, enables but also COMPELS the human body to climb higher on the ladder of software, for this is the age in which we live, and humanity has waited 1000's of years for this tool, and this age.

To witness this point, we need only observe that all our "money" is electronic.

So some imagine they can go back to the age of gold? But can they turn back the clock on electronics? And on computing? And on the result of these two, meaning software itself? Can they retyrn us to the ages before software?

Personally I have been using computers for 25 years, which is more than 2/3rds of my life. Still I must be cognizant of a major truth which is that the majority of people on Earth do not have a computer, ...and if they do get access to a computer, will they have internet? And even then, if they get internet our to those people who do not have this modern informational tool called software, and Internet, the main question is, How subtle and sophisticated will the internet-Clickles(tm)-hucksters become by that time?

What can prevent the people who really want to keep humanity sick and mentally crippled, from de facto control of "software" and "internet"? Because all it takes is a little mercury in the broth and you won't even taste your own death, it will be salty and delicious and will kill you long term.

Brothmaking, smelting a purer metal, or writing more perfect software, all these are related. And can we not say, that the user who tastes perfect broth, or who feels perfect metal, or who uses perfect software, will not perceive a divinity in the simplicity? Yes, for the final result of all of these things, is a purity, a simplicity. It is such sublime simple perfection of any of these three things, that needs no words. It simply is, good.

Now having said all that, I should mention that Face-book, is now essentially owned by the same people who use software to front run the market. And these same owners of this so-called magnificent tool called "face-book", have bypassed the rules of American authorities, to offer shares in this information based software company, to other nations' rich folk and institutions.

Again: Face-book's sugar daddy, Goldman Sachs also runs secret high-speed trading software that makes the market for the plebes, a manipulated joke. So GS are basically using software against humanity, and for themselves. It is a misuse of this powerful tool, when it is applied against humanity.

Here is the truth which the future knows: Face-book and all info gathering software on the Internet, meaning pretty much all cookies in all webpages, are illegal and will eventually be banned and evil software will be forbidden on penalty of punsihment by the people.

I am saying that in the future, it will be understood what it means to perfect the broth, or to poison it.

We live in an age of poisoned broth, but oh how tasty the face-book is, its as tasty as looking in a satanic mirror!

I appreciate the OP and participants here who are trying to unpoison the broth. Good luck with that! Me I am off to watch the Harry Potter series of films so I can understand what the administrators of tomorrow are being raised on today, and why the future will be the way it will be. We must admit that the money system is magical, truly magical. Not sure if its Valdemort or Harry whose in charge but still, magical.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
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01/27/2011 10:36 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Found on page 35 of the thread Here is how to crash the Federal Reserve. You have the power to end it now.---synopsis page 8--Are you going to redeem your FRN for lawful money? Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul (Page 35)

QUOTE

The Treasury issues debt which it has neither the intention nor the means ever to repay. This debt is used as “backing” for Federal Reserve notes and deposits, which the Fed has neither the intention nor the means ever to redeem. When the Treasury debt matures, it is paid in Federal Reserve credit issued on the collateral security of new Treasury debt. When Federal Reserve credit is presented for redemption, the Fed offers interest-bearing Treasury debt in exchange. This is a shell game and it exhausts the definition of check-kiting. Neither the Treasury debt, nor the Federal Reserve credit is issued in good faith. Neither is redeemable any more than Charles Ponzi’s tickets were. They are both issued in order to mesmerize a gullible public, much the same way as Ponzi did.

Mesmerize a gullible public... indeed. And poster 1228549 has been telling you how the trance is induced.

A portion of the spell induces one and all to "register" everything of any significant value including your own labor... Everything "registered" becomes collateral for the debt which grows in an exponential manner...

This present model for money is enslaving the entire world.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1239403
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01/27/2011 10:57 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
More great talking from asses sitting on warm chairs heated by electric bills paid for with money.

Here is one way to start a life without money:
[link to redux.50webs.com]

Action should be the product of information, but it never is, is it?
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
01/27/2011 12:42 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This post exposes the problems caused by theft of seigniorage plus usury: Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul (Page 37)

The concept of governmental issued notes of credit drawn upon the credit of the people is equally faulty even though it has been supported by such luminaries as Henry Ford and Thomas Edison: [link to prosperityuk.com]

Public money is also endorsed by Zarlenga

In a mutual credit form of money issuance the seigniorage must be vested in the people as a whole or perhaps limited to the producers (how would "producers" be defined?). Interest must be replaced with service fees and demurrage on circulating currency and accounts of record.

Precious metals can be recognized as a formal "store of value" and these same stores can be held in a public repository and used in a performance bond role. This does not prohibit private holdings.

Credit as money discussed with many links on pages 19 & 20 of this thread.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
01/27/2011 01:19 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Private feedback from a correspondent; posted here as a continuation on the trace formation subtopic:

QUOTE

Here's one that you won't find too much on, but according to Chinese alchemist writings, they knew of the follow technique:
world wide now the music standard is based on the A440 standard, 8 beats off of the natural rhythm of 432, this 440 makes the front cortex open to "suggestion". This standard was adopted in the USA in or around 1870's, the Germans saw it's effectiveness and adopted it prior to Hitler was put into power, later the rest of the world has adopted the A440 standard...

Now this is why Americans went down the passive trail...

Back in school I used to wonder how all the potheads/etc. who couldn't remember what 2 x 2 was but could recite entire songs, lyrics and chords.... and now they're making millions $$$, but still can't write a check?...

END QUOTE
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
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01/27/2011 01:25 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Kirk MacKenzie has posted another you tube in his series WHY WE ARE IN SO MUCH DEBT

About 35 minutes long and more solution oriented.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]

My posting of the Kirk MacKenzie does not endorse his material; I only present it as a significant contribution toward grasping the nature of the problem.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
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01/27/2011 02:28 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Kirk MacKenzie seems (I have not yet read his book) to limit his monetary thesis to gold and/or gold certificates (a form of warehouse receipt).

In a communications theory of money where money is a method of communicating ownership of value by means of symbols and contracts the gold coin is simply one more symbol.

If the warehouse receipt is a valid form of money why limit the issuance of warehouse receipts to ONLY GOLD?

It seems quite possible and practical to issue at least four general classes of warehouse receipts.
(1) An energy receipt defined in kilowatt hours of electricity. The largest consumption of energy embedded in coal is to fire boilers for electrical generation turbines. Automobile fuel is a close second (or even first), but engineers do have conversion formulas for one form of energy to another. (who pays energy warehousing costs?)

(2) A cereal grain warehouse receipt. The exact value of cereal grains is more difficult to define as quality varies from one batch of grain to another so not only is corn being compared to rice or beans, but one batch of corn must be compared to another batch of corn. Nevertheless, I do believe an algorithm for a constant value cereal grain warehouse receipt can be developed. The demurrage principle very definitely applies to the cereal grain note.

(3) A human time warehouse receipt where the human being is thought to be the warehouse repository for his or her time. Issue is quantity limited to population demographics. (the demurrage principle applies in a particular vicious manner here as as a promise to show up tomorrow has value but yesterday is only a memory) (That's why we call this day THE PRESENT)

(4) A metals note where the note is again an algorithm for a general value where all refined metals are balanced against each other and no metal is given special preference. Metals of a dense (high value per pound or kilogram) can be given recognition as a form of savings and posted as performance bonds to other contracts to develop and deliver things of value in the future. (warehousing fees apply)





GLP