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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Levi Philos

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08/27/2011 10:54 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In 1899, Martin Wetzel Walbert wrote a book titled: THE COMING BATTLE where he made the argument that the future would see a big argument whether money should be silver backed or gold backed.

Here is a version in html format: [link to www.yamaguchy.com]

Three returns for a search in PDF format: [link to www.google.com]

The Douglas Gnazzo five part series that shows the lawful backing for United States money was and still is silver is linked on page 25 of this thread.
Levi Philos

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08/27/2011 11:19 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
A SHORT HISTORY of Paper Money and Banking IN THE UNITED STATES including AN ACCOUNT of PROVINCIAL AND CONTINENTAL PAPER MONEY. to which is prefixed

AN INQUIRY into the principles of the system with considerations of its effects on morals and happiness.

The whole intended as a plain exposition of the way in which paper money and money corporations, affect the interests of different portions of the community.

by William M. Gouge 1833

Index: [link to www.yamaguchy.com]

Look at the left column for actual chapter titles.

It is great news to me that the Yamaguchy site is back.

They have gigabytes of information scanned from the Library of Congress.
Levi Philos

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08/27/2011 11:26 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Yamaguchy site now has an associated forum: [link to www.yamaguchy.com]

700 + members, but not many posts.
Levi Philos

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08/27/2011 01:08 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The point I have been trying to make OVER AND OVER AND OVER is that CENTRALIZED POWER AND CENTRALIZED MONEY FORM A SYMBIOTIC PAIR. NEITHER CAN EXIST WITHOUT THE OTHER

The solution is to form a system of decentralized mutual credit run by the people - as decentralized as is possible.

THEN - ignore the demands of the control freaks. They will suddenly wake up and solutions as if magic will appear.

IGNORE THEIR SOLUTIONS - STICK WITH THE DECENTRALIZED MUTUAL CREDIT MODEL


Any centralized model will find control freaks running for the controls; even the decentralized model will have that problem, but at least then you can find out who they are and where they live.

This is why Iceland told the bankers where to get off. The people knew where everybody lived and set up vigils at their homes.
VAEROSPACE

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08/27/2011 01:26 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
erm we gonna have to get rid of greed corruption petty jealousy stupidity and several forms of criminal idiocy first oh and our alien farmer masters..




not to mention hoarders , conservatives religious freaks
and so much more ..there is no answer best i can do
One Human One spaceship ... and I'm getting mine MFKZT rules folks

Last Edited by spaceduck on 08/27/2011 01:27 PM
Levi Philos

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09/01/2011 11:14 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Update on news from Iceland.

Most readers know that the government of Iceland initially agreed to the debt load imposed by the bankers, but a near revolt by the people resulted in a repudiation of that debt.

Now, through usage of social media, the people of Iceland are forcing a re-write of their constitution. The overall picture and sequence of events is here: [link to singularityhub.com]

The details in English from two official Icelandic sources: [link to www.stjornlagarad.is] and [link to www.stjornlagarad.is] (second link is the rules of procedure)

One private correspondent wrote that venture capital that previously focused on taking over corporations are now taking over whole countries.

I believe there is a lesson to be learned from the people of Iceland.
Levi Philos

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09/01/2011 11:19 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In searching the two Iceland sites, I find no hits for: money, gold, silver, currency, commerce, or debt.

And the problem they are trying to solve is...
Levi Philos

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09/01/2011 11:32 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
On page 24 of this thread there is discussion of Bernard von NotHaus and the Liberty Dollar story.

Now: Coin world is reporting: "Liberty Dollars may be subject to seizure; and Federal officials call medallic [sic] pieces ‘contraband’"

[link to www.coinworld.com]

Go to page 24 where you will find links to the John Grandbouche, Johnathan May, and Robert Kahre stories. Each of these are instructive in their own way.
Levi Philos

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09/01/2011 08:22 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Gary North is pro-gold; this 41 page piece can be thought of as a round-up of Greenbackers past and present: [link to mises.org]

A MUST READ

This pdf document comes from a pro-greenbacker position: [link to www.forumforstablecurrencies.org.uk]

What caught my attention was the references to and discussion of the assignment of seigniorage. It is my position that if the books are to balance the seigniorage must be assigned to the people.
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


The quote above is from page 35 of this thread. There is more from Gary North of the same type quoted and linked on page 36 of this thread.

Gary North strongly criticizes the writing and speeches of Dr Ellen Brown.

This article from Brown explains the prosperity and high employment/ low debt default in North Dakota as a result of North Dakota having a state bank: [link to www.webofdebt.com]

This is a position that Bill Still advocates in his latest video.

Last Edited by Levi Philos on 09/01/2011 08:30 PM
gembouncer
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09/04/2011 09:59 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
ban test

Hmm... What's the point?

Let's say gold gets to 30,000 USD per ounce and the market tries to correct the price of gold to that level? QUESTION: How much do lead bullets and primers cost? How much do artillery shells cost?

The gold grab of FDR's time, was the most audacious looting in US history. But the price of gold at that time, was reasonable in relation to goods. Not today, however. Today, if gold goes to a comparative price, it'll be utterly unreasonable in practice and appearance.

1 oz for 30,000 USD? That's what Mahoney and Ted Butler are talking. Don't they realize how cheap bullets are? Don't they realize the value of LEAD?

Because in case you haven't noticed, gold is trumped by LEAD when it comes to true value and true power. 1 million lead bullets, will capture their weight in gold, with many of them not even needing to be fired. Only iron is more powerful than lead.

So go long lead first, and long ceramic plate body armor, before you go all-in on gold. In FDR's day, numbers say they only got maybe 50% of the gold in the USA, but historically, FDRs theft recommends that it will happen again. Only fools would talk about gold at 30k per ounce and not factor in the price of lead. I am not sure if Americans can even buy lead in the form of bullets anymore, can they? Last I checked, most ammo comes from the Philippines and out of US suppliers. Haha, fucking lame. Land of the free, according to permission.
Levi Philos

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09/04/2011 01:23 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
A better idea trumps both lead and gold.

The following is extremely conceptually dense. Read every word carefully as the following are my conclusions made over the past five years.

Two presumptions keep people trapped in the existing paradigm.

The first presumption is that money is a *thing* and the second presumption is that money is a natural monopoly. The *thing* that fills and qualifies in most people's mind as "money" is generally a precious metal - most probably gold or silver or some combination of both.

Here's the sword that will cut the Gordian Knot!

Money is an act of communication via symbols and contracts that allow people to exchange real things by proxy.

Get some Chinese Red paint and a two inch paintbrush and paint that sentence on an open wall so you get to read it every day until it becomes obviously true.

Because once you see that money is a communication, it quickly becomes obvious that it is NOT a natural monopoly; it becomes obvious that if you can walk and chew gum you can become the originator of any monetary communication; and that the only question open to discussion then becomes: "How do we determine whether this monetary communication is true and not counterfeit?"

Which opens the discussion of banking as agency to value producers with responsibility as to specific performance of contract and insurance functions of banking as agency.

You see, money as a communication can be graded into various grades of quality. Understand that, and you understand why precious metal coins were used. Counterfeiting is lying with money symbols. It is difficult to lie with a gold or silver coin.


    Bonded communications as a monetary format


If one guy tells another guy that they could exchange labor, in my communication theory of money - a monetary contract has been created. If one guy needs the direct help but the other guy doesn't need the direct return of labor and says "I owe Bob Jones a couple days of labor from two months ago - could you return my help (to you) to Bob Jones on my behalf?" Now you see an exchangeable communication has been created.

To this point all the monetary communication has been recorded on thin air.

If this exchange is recorded to paper and signed by the parties, the record is more clear and enforceable under the uniform commercial code.

If the parties asked a third party to hold the contract as escrow agent, then that escrow agent is doing a banker's job.

If the word of one of the parties is held in some doubt, he could deposit something of value to be held pending full execution of the contract. Now we have a bonded communication - and historically that bond was a deposit of gold coin. If one of the parties is a known liar, he could ask the bank to co-sign the obligation contract. This is a service the bank could legitimately charge a fee for as it is an insurance function.

This is the SWORD: That the uniform commercial code is your friend once you accept that money is an act of communication and the banker is forced into an agency relationship to value producers where the banker provides for bonding of the communication, insurance of contracts, and co-signing relationships.

I recommend reading Antal Fekete on the Real Bills Doctrine but add this concept: that the true bills are the money while a small quantity of gold sits in reserve providing for settlement in case of dispute or other failure of contract.

Any LETS system could adopt my concepts and I have offered them free, but they do not yet seem receptive to adopting more rigor into their system.

The little child learning to wave bye-bye at departing friends is learning to communicate symbolically - you are an adult and can also learn that money is a communication.
Levi Philos

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09/05/2011 11:16 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
It is an idea whose time has come: STOP HELPING THE BASTARDS

BLURB:

Max Igan : Fight the New World Order with Global Non Compliance

Max Igan - Surviving The Matrix - 09/02/11 Trust & Non Compliance: stop complying with the system and the system crumbles. Understand your enemy and understand the weapons they use so you may then use those same weapons in reverse. The money system is the head of the snake. Cut the head off the snake and the rest of it will whither and die. The time for talk is over and the time has come for action. It is now time for the people of the world to stop complying with the system. Everyone. Stop complying with it and you will shut it down.

And the best form of non compliance is love. Approach every issue with love. It is much easier to fight for principles than to live up to them and it takes a far braver man to stand up for what is right and spit in the face of authority than it does to blindly follow orders due to fear of the consequences. Understand that we are all one and the key to real change and unity in this world lies with love. Its time to shut them down and starve them out. Start NOW!

/BLURB; go to Gerald Celente blog spot for this plus video one of four related videos.

[link to geraldcelentechannel.blogspot.com]

Last Edited by Levi Philos on 09/05/2011 11:20 AM
Levi Philos

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09/05/2011 11:49 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Max Igan has identified the weak link:

The money system is the head of the snake. Cut the head off the snake and the rest of it will whither and die.
 Quoting: Max Igan


Here is my short response - written about five years ago:

Freedom cannot be purchased with a currency that is centrally issued. Centralized money and centralized power is a symbiotic pair; neither can exist without the other. Freedom can only be purchased with a decentralized open source medium of exchange where the producers of value participate in the creation of the symbols by which that value is exchanged in proxy, and the banker serves in an agency role to producers of value.
 Quoting: Levi Philos


and...

To beat centralized power you need to raise your own army and in the process become yourself much like those you wish to depose.

To replace centralized money you only need a better idea and no death and destruction are required.

Last Edited by Levi Philos on 09/05/2011 11:50 AM
gembouncer
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09/05/2011 05:40 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This is the SWORD: That the uniform commercial code is your friend once you accept that money is an act of communication and the banker is forced into an agency relationship to value producers where the banker provides for bonding of the communication, insurance of contracts, and co-signing relationships.

[...]

The little child learning to wave bye-bye at departing friends is learning to communicate symbolically - you are an adult and can also learn that money is a communication.
 Quoting: Levi Philos


Hey Levi, thanks man.

I am not disagreeing with you, other than to insist that my "extreme" solutions will be eventually what happens. I am 100% guaranteeing you that the half life on your suggestion that "the banker is forced into an agency relationship to value producers" is about 15 minutes. Bankers, as such, produce nothing. That's why they go into banking. They sit there, and accept what others have done, and then make a living for themselves. I must say that it is nice for you to make a job for them, in the future. Very generous.

However, IP peer-to-peer commo makes all that obsolete. After around 1993, the old world is dead. There will be no bankers in the future. To the kids of tomorrow, banking is seen as a nefarious practice, devoid of decency. To make these people into "agents" makes them more loathesome since they would not be identifiable. We do not need more agents, you agree I am sure.

No see, IP makes everything simple. Imagine of people decided to create say, a people's network like Verizon or AT&T and you know, build it themselves, run it themselves, all of it on their own, without any corporate mumbo jumbo or law-crap. Just simple handshakes and agreements, and off the shelf known technology. Let's imagine people that the gift of IP, and build a netowkr, not controlled like the IP network of now, but free and open, for the people, and not for all the honeypot shenanigans of today's IP network. I am talking about an IP network run by the people, and defended with bullets (lead) if need be.

Now I know that's impossible today, but when things slip a bit farther, people will desire their IP rights.

Go with me on this, because my premise is that IP wrecks any silly complex ideas, by being the utter simplification of all things bureaucratic. See, even though Internet of today is full of 99% crap domains and ad-schemes, in fact, IP and HTML are meant to be safe, verifiable and simple. That "little child waving goodbye" you mention, as the essence of simple learned communication, is what all humans will do, to the way of the old, once the Internet is threatened. People will die for the free Internet, if needed. I believe it is the most crucial concept of our times, bar none. Gold and silver are worth nothing, compared to the free IP globo commo network, of this brief time.

Therefore, there is no need for anyone to rent or consider a proxy ANYTHING, not a proxy leader, a proxy law-defender, a proxy judge NOTHING. If they defend free IP, then all juries of the future will be peer to peer, judges and all governments will be gone, replaced by peer-to-peer governance toward freedom and defense of the weak, a la the Jesus principle. Jesus was the ultimate simple man. He did not spend time with lawyers, except to confound and berate them. I will stick with his policy of "the simpler, in love, the better."

But I gotta say that was a great post and yes I get it. Now when you say that the UCC will be some sort of hope for freedom, do you mean that families will have to learn the UCC? Because Levi, isn't it true that the whole game of Law, and especially Admiralty law with its papers and issuances and documentary agents and so forth, is utterly anti-Christian? The principles of Jesus seem to be away from all the papers, and more toward realness, in love. I wonder to myself how a young mill worker of say 1790 US times, would know how to do their UCC filings? I fail to see how your solution will give us the sublime simple life of nature, as I have explained here. And yet, you are the only one ringing this bell, and it doth ring to the heart of all humans. So thanks.
Levi Philos

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09/08/2011 01:03 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The entirety of this post was written by Jet Graphics
[link to groups.yahoo.com]
Why pauperization is our bane

With all due respect, the majority of Americans are burdened by the chains of socialist slavery, and know not of their agreement that allows the servant government to ignore the limits stated in the U.S. Constitution.

In Article IV of the Articles of Confederation, the exclusion of paupers, vagabonds and fugitives from justice is a fact. According to the Statutes at Large of the United States of America, the Articles are listed as Statute #2. And there is no notation that they have been repealed nor superseded. However, they have been incorporated by reference (Art 6) into the U.S. constitution. And there are specific powers listed in the Articles, not listed in the Constitution, that the United States, in congress assembled, exercises.

EXCEPTED FROM PROTECTION

"The better to secure and perpetuate mutual friendship and intercourse among the people of the different states in this union, the free inhabitants of each of these states, PAUPERS, vagabonds and fugitives from Justice EXCEPTED, shall be entitled to all privileges and immunities of free citizens in the several states; ...." [Article IV of the Articles of Confederation (1777)]

In support of that fact, is found in the definition of "status crimes" which directly connect to the pre-constitutional exclusion.

"Constitutional" violations of inalienable rights

" State code 124 Sections 6, and 7, authorizing the overseer of the poor to commit to the workhouse able-bodied persons, not having the means to support themselves, and who live a dissolute and vagrant life, and do not work sufficiently to support themselves, are not repugnant to the constitution, giving every man an inalienable right to defend his life and liberty." In re Nott, 11 Me. (2 Fairf.) 208. (Me. 1834)

Translation: compelled labor and restricted liberty is constitutional - when dealing with paupers and vagabonds.

"Act May 29, 1879, providing for the committal to the industrial school of dependent infant girls, who are beggars, wanderers, homeless, or without proper parental care, in no way violates the right of personal liberty, and is constitutional." Ex parte Ferrier, 103 Ill. 367, 42 Am. Rep. 10 (Ill. 1882)

Remember the exclusions: pauper and vagabond? Compelled labor and restricted liberty are constitutional - when dealing with paupers and vagabonds.

" An act providing for the care and custody of the person and the estate of habitual drunkards is not unconstitutional, as depriving a citizen of the right to enjoy, control, and dispose of his property, and to make contracts." Devin v. Scott, 34 Ind. 67 (Ind. 1870)

Translation: taking custody of the person and property of a drunkard (impaired person) is not unconstitutional. How long does that authority last?

LOSING YOUR CHILDREN

" ... where a minor child is abandoned by the parent, to be supported by the town, such parent shall be deemed a pauper, and be subject to the same rules and regulations as a pauper, [this statute] is not in conflict with those provisions of the constitution of the United States or of the state of Connecticut which guaranty security to the person." McCarthy v. Hinman, 35 Conn. 538 (Conn. 1869)

Translation: parent who surrenders a child to the state becomes a pauper. And parent (as well as child) becomes subject to the (Collective) State. Did you "voluntarily" enroll your children into national socialism? At birth? Now you know why you can't spank your children. They're no longer yours.

"STATUS CRIME - A class of crime which consists not in proscribed action or inaction, but in the accused's having a certain personal condition or being a person of a specified character. An example of a status crime is vagrancy. Status crimes are constitutionally suspect." BL 6, p.1410

" VAGRANT - At common law (!), wandering or going about from place to place by idle person who has no lawful or visible means of support and who subsisted on charity and did not work, though able to do so.... One who is apt to become a public charge through his own laziness." BL 6, p. 1549

"PAUPER - One so poor that he must be supported at public expense." BL 6, p. 1128

The lack of the financial means or property to support oneself is the prerequisite for being indigent, but as soon as one is supported at public expense, the trap door springs open, and down he falls.

A pauper was and is a status criminal. But under national socialism, he is no longer prosecuted for just "being a pauper". The "Homeless" problem is evidence of that fact. Prior to national socialism, a vagrant was arrested and incarcerated. After national socialism, no one is arrested or incarcerated for mere vagrancy because "everybody" has no domicile and have claimed to be vagabonds at law.

Is it a coincidence that many, if not all state statutes redefine "resident" to be synonymous with "vagabond"?

From the Official Code of Georgia Annotated- OCGA 40-2-1. As used in this chapter, the term:

(2) "Resident" means a person who has a permanent home or abode in Georgia to which, whenever he is absent, he has the intention of returning. For the purposes of this chapter, there is a rebuttable presumption that any person who, except for infrequent, brief absences, has been present in the state for 30 or more days is a resident.

--- This is a prime example of the art of legal word twisting. Note how the phrasing sounds like the definition for domicile.

Resident = "a person" + "permanent home" .

If you quickly read the section, you might presume that it means one who is in the state 30 or more days is a resident, for motor vehicle code purposes.

But if you dissect it, the meaning is just the opposite. "A person" + "permanent home" + "present for 30 or more days" = rebuttable presumption that HE IS A RESIDENT.

In plain English, a Georgia resident is one who has a permanent home but is in the state LESS than 30 days out of a year (A transient). If one is present in the state 30 or more days out of a year, he can REBUT THE PRESUMPTION that he is a resident.

If he is "not a resident", it appears that he is an inhabitant (domiciled) at his permanent home.

And you can bet that every state has an exclusion for "non-residents".

Every American who innocently claims to be a resident and a citizen in order to enroll into national socialism and enjoy civil and political liberties has surrendered his property rights and his status at law.

CHILD SUPPORT Non-custodial child support (and ex spouse support) are directly opposite of the common law and the pre-socialist statutes enacted in harmony with it.

" Where mother is awarded the custody of her minor children on a decree of divorce from the father, he is thereby deprived of all rights to the services of the child, and consequently is freed from all liability to the mother for the care, support, and maintenance of the child." Husband v. Husband,67 Ind. 583, 33 Am.Rep. 107 (Ind.1879)

It's a "common law" axiom that one deprived of possession of a minor child is not obligated to support, unless by consent.

Of course, once enrolled in Social Security, the minor is a ward of the State, and all "contributors" are obligated to help support - especially the numbered non-custodial parent.

Want another cite in support of that idea?

" When a wife deserts her husband, and continues to live separate from him, and retains custody of a child, refusing to deliver him up to the father, who offers to support him, an action cannot be maintained against the father for the support and education of the child." Fitler v. Fitler, 2 Phila. 372 (Pa.1857)

The rights to the child, his services and custody are bound together. If the mother took the child, whether by divorce or separation, the father was excused from support. This also explains why divorce was less common (or rewarding) before 1935.

Remember, Socialism abolishes private property. Private property is land, houses, and CHATTELS (people) owned absolutely. Without private property rights, there is no absolute right of the parents to their children. Without private property rights, coverture (absolute ownership by the husband / father) of the family property ceases to function for the benefit of the next generation, hence the loss to "estate taxes" and "death taxes".

Without absolute ownership of oneself, one's labor, and the fruits of one's labor, there's nothing for government to secure - by original compact.

If one has surrendered his private property rights in order to access charity from the public treasury (entitlements), one has no rights except those "privileges" the government grants to the paupers it is supporting.

That's how the "other compact" supersedes all that we have been led to believe about the "real American law".

Pauperization is America's bane, and our greatest shame.
Levi Philos

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09/10/2011 01:05 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
There is a legitimate place in a mutual credit communications theory of money for gold, silver, and other precious metals.

They can serve in a dual role; that of savings and in a performance bond role.

In fact, I first recognized this was already happening when I began to digitize an 1864 book on Scottish banking. Because (and Rothbard wrote about this) the so-called gold bonds were NOT necessarily redeemable in gold in the Scottish system (by law) it dawned on me that what was happening was the gold was somehow acting as a performance bond upon the bankers.

This in turn gave me a clue how to make a LETS system work better.

Because in a mutual credit communications theory of money - counterfeiting is telling lies with money symbols and specific performance of contract is very significant in generating faith in the system.

By recognizing precious metals as a valid way of "saving value" and by using these same precious metals in a performance bond role... this puts all of the players into having some "skin in the game" ... not only the banker.

The circulating medium of exchange can be anything - even electronic records - it is the performance bonds that keep the players honest.

[link to www.godlikeproductions.com]
Cornucopian Amendment
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09/11/2011 01:36 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Haha, now I know this thread has achieved critical mass. Very nice.

[link to www.ibtimes.com]

"Freedom of religion does not allow individuals to trade sex for money, no matter how the transaction is portrayed," Maricopa County Attorney Bill Montgomery said in a statement.
 Quoting:


Listen to the attorney who rules you: You are not allowed to trade sex for money, regardless of what you believe.

These ripples will grow. Attorneys are not fun, but other humans, are fun. Why can't the BAR association provide some actual humans to us? Why do they crank out such cranks? Also, what makes an attorney an expert on transactions or religions?
Levi Philos

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09/11/2011 09:32 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Frederic Bastiat; What is Money: [link to mises.org] [Transcript of the text is on that page; the actual audio is at the link below.]

First published in 1849, this essay is included in The Bastiat Collection (2011). An MP3 audio file of this article, narrated by Holly Hinton and Joel Sams, is available for download.

[link to media.mises.org]

The whole impact of that piece is to show that the medium of exchange - even though it might be gold - is not the true wealth of a country. The true wealth of a country lies in the productivity of the people using what natural resources they might collectively possess plus their intellectual and physical labor.

The reader or listener should know that Bastiat had grown up during the French revolution and subsequently became an anti-socialist. (the French revolution was driven by the socialist agenda). In the last large paragraph at the end, Bastiat says this:
Consider that at the period when our intellectual faculties begin to develop themselves, at the age when impressions are liveliest, when habits of mind are formed with the greatest ease — when we might look at society and understand it — in a word, as soon as we are seven or eight years old, what does the state do? It puts a blindfold over our eyes, takes us gently from the midst of the social circle that surrounds us, to plunge us, with our susceptible faculties, our impressible hearts, into the midst of Roman society. It keeps us there for ten years at least, long enough to make an indelible impression on the brain. Now observe, that Roman society is directly opposed to what our society ought to be. There they lived upon war; here we ought to hate war; there they hated labor; here we ought to live upon labor. There the means of subsistence were founded upon slavery and plunder; here they should be drawn from free industry. Roman society was organized in consequence of its principle. It necessarily admired what made it prosper. There they considered as virtue what we look upon as vice. Its poets and historians had to exalt what we ought to despise. The very words liberty, order, justice, people, honor, influence, etc., could not have the same signification at Rome as they have, or ought to have, at Paris. How can you expect that all these youths who have been at university or conventional schools with Livy and Quintus Curtius for their catechism, will not understand liberty like the Gracchi, virtue like Cato, patriotism like Caesar? How can you expect them not to be factious and warlike? How can you expect them to take the slightest interest in the mechanism of our social order? Do you think that their minds have been prepared to understand it? Do you not see that in order to do so they must get rid of their present impressions, and receive others entirely opposed to them?
 Quoting: Bastiat


Again, the reader should note that Roman society had degenerated into socialism much as the United States has degenerated into socialism and we are witnessing the same wars for plunder accompanying the enslavement of entire populations as took place in Roman society.

Credit to the Agorism site; this was presentation #41 at [link to agoristradio.com] The observations other than the Bastiat quote are mine.

Levi Philos
Levi Philos

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09/12/2011 11:04 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Carol Brouillet, creator, printer, and distributor of the "Deception Dollar" (perhaps you have seen one of those?) will also speak at the Zarlenga conference in Chicago at the end of this month.

Details: [link to www.old.monetary.org]
Levi Philos

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09/12/2011 11:07 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Deception Dollar: [link to www.deceptiondollar.com]
osbogosley

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09/12/2011 11:25 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
bump for Levi, I'm getting an education here. Thanks
osbogosley; All words I type are illegal advice, really tired of disclaimers!
Levi Philos

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09/12/2011 12:02 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The concept that money is a neutral bearer of information has been presented by Mises and Hayek and most likely by Bastiat also.

Most recently, Dr Robert Blain of the University of Southern Illinois has presented the concept in a simpler and more linear fashion.

It is right in the center of this page: [link to www.siue.edu]


Information Chain Theory: [link to www.siue.edu]

Understand this and you can see where I get the Communication Theory of Money
Levi Philos

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09/12/2011 12:30 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The favorite trick of bureaucrats is to say "NO" and get you in a position of begging favors and paying for these favors.

The central thesis of the Rees-Moog and Davidson book was encrypted exchange which would lead to a defunding of bureaucracy and freeing of individuals.

The Sovereign Individual - or something like that - about 1996

The concept of decentralizing the money system and defunding governments is at the center of this thread.

Just attempt to post the blurb from this page: [link to agoristradio.com]
Levi Philos

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09/12/2011 12:43 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This system is scared shitless the man on the street might acquire encrypted digital value exchange that bypasses all of their theft.

Just imagine how prosperous everyone would be if we were spared the destructive episodes set up by the bankers.

Let's see... drop bombs on bridges in Iraq - then borrow money to rebuild the bridges?

Shit, why not save on fuel for the aircraft carriers - there are bridges in Tennessee and Illinois that are 60 and 70 years old; bomb them.
osbogosley

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09/13/2011 11:53 AM
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osbogosley; All words I type are illegal advice, really tired of disclaimers!
Levi Philos

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09/13/2011 12:10 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Update on news from Iceland.

Most readers know that the government of Iceland initially agreed to the debt load imposed by the bankers, but a near revolt by the people resulted in a repudiation of that debt.

Now, through usage of social media, the people of Iceland are forcing a re-write of their constitution. The overall picture and sequence of events is here: [link to singularityhub.com]

The details in English from two official Icelandic sources: [link to www.stjornlagarad.is] and [link to www.stjornlagarad.is] (second link is the rules of procedure)

One private correspondent wrote that venture capital that previously focused on taking over corporations are now taking over whole countries.

I believe there is a lesson to be learned from the people of Iceland.
 Quoting: Levi Philos


Bill Still with advice to Icelanders and the people of Croatia: Don't join the Euro banking system.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Levi Philos

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09/13/2011 12:28 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Albert Jay Nock, OUR ENEMY, THE STATE

1935; only 52 pages in PDF format: [link to mises.org]

This piece is very famous - everyone should read it along with Lysander Spooner's CONSTITUTION OF NO AUTHORITY
Levi Philos

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09/15/2011 07:22 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Note to self regarding rolling gold into thin sheets, cutting and embedding in credit card sized plastic: "gold leaf can be rolled down to just a few atoms thick. One ounce (28g) of gold can be rolled into a 200 square feet (20m²) gold leaf."

Conversion factor; one meter square is 10^4 cm square
Levi Philos

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09/16/2011 11:48 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Ron Paul has this right! From the Lew Rockwell blog:

QUOTE (link at bottom)

September 12, 2011
'Paul Subcommittee To Explore Restoring Sound Money'
Posted by Lew Rockwell on September 12, 2011 09:28 AM

WASHINGTON, DC — Congressman Ron Paul, Chairman of the Domestic Monetary Policy and Technology Subcommittee, announced today that the subcommittee will hold a hearing on legislation to restore sound money to the economy through competition.

H.R. 1098, the Free Competition in Currency Act of 2011, would allow competitive free market forces to provide sound money through choice in currency. The bill repeals federal legal tender laws, repeals restrictions on private mints, and repeals taxes on gold and silver which prevent them from circulating as forms of payment. The hearing will discuss the need for and efficacy of sound money, the means by which sound money can be achieved through measures such as H.R. 1098, and the constitutional role of government in money.

“For too long the Federal Reserve has exercised a monopoly on currency issuance,” Chairman Paul stated. “The result, predictably, has been an increasingly devalued dollar. We have been experimenting with a pure fiat currency system nationally and internationally for 40 years, and it has been proven unsound and unsustainable. Our fiat system helped create the massive debt crisis we find ourselves in, and has eroded the purchasing power of every American. The American people deserve to have a choice of currencies to protect themselves and their families from the poor decisions of government. Serious monetary reform is needed, and this hearing is the first step towards addressing this crucial issue. I am pleased that the subcommittee will be examining ways to return to sound money,” Paul continued.

The hearing, entitled “Road Map to Sound Money: A Legislative Hearing on H.R. 1098 and Restoring the Dollar,” will be held on Tuesday, September 13, at 2:00 p.m. in Room 2128 of the Rayburn House Office Building.

Witnesses scheduled to testify:
Dr. Lawrence M. Parks, Executive Director, Foundation for the Advancement of Monetary Education
Dr. Lawrence H. White, Professor of Economics, George Mason University
Additional witnesses to be announced.

Link: [link to www.lewrockwell.com]
HilosPP

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09/16/2011 11:54 AM

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Thread: SO WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR THE AMERICAN PEOPLE TO BACK A DEBATE ON WORLD AFFAIRS WITH THE POPE????!!!010!!!????

Bet this will give ya something to think about if you're bored, has a lot of questions and involves the Declaration of Independence. Trying to bounce some ideas of thought around to actually figure out how to make World Peace real.
Quoting: HilosPP


Seems to me Death brings with it Pain, Suffering and Hate and it is two fold because the three of these things seem to proceed and follow death. And indeed I come to realize that even the three of these are two fold, for Pain can be of the flesh and of the spirit, so to can be said of Hate and Suffering.
Quoting: HilosPP


So to perpetuate Pain, Suffering and Hate, for they lead to Death, the enemy of man must find its foundations in perpetuating Hate, Suffering and Pain. Not so much as Death is the end result, for clearly they hold true to the idea that the ends justify the means and Death are those ends. I believe Hate to be the lesser of the three because it is easier to hate before all things and than start suffering and pain; as it is easier to Love first and forgive, and value another's well being of yours. Again I believe man would best be served in living for this idea.
Quoting: HilosPP


So Hate is man's enemy if Love is his Ally. So what leads us to hate and how are we being held so firmly in its foundations? Seems to me a matter of failing to realize are equality as men under one God, for often we hate each other just because of where we were born and live, all in relation to the borders established by the very system we seek to abolish. For we being Men of Peace have decided that we will have our Rights of Life, Liberty and The Pursuit of Happiness and these borders will no longer define Our Nation nor Our Independence.
Quoting: HilosPP


No comment? I think we could make some good convo with real world applications if we bounce some ideas of each other.
The Self-Annointed Golden Elohim; Israel's Foresaken.

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