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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 10:54 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Here is a Google advanced search for "The Natural Economic Order" in PDF format:

[link to www.google.com]

There is an abbreviated version out there also in PDF format.

The full version is 207 pages. The nice thing about the PDF format version is you can search by word easily.

Gesell is often times accused of being a socialist, but a search for socialism will quickly remove that idea.

He was a student of Henry George - that is one part I strongly disagree with. Always sounded too much like "all property is owned by the state, with rents payable to the state" (which is - in case you don't know - one of the planks of the communist manifesto).

Perhaps I'll post some more bits and pieces about Gesell...
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 11:02 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Willem H. Buiter (London School of Economics) did some writing and speaking from 2003 to 2009 on Gesellian economic theory.

"Overcoming the zero bound on nominal interest rates with negative interest on currency: Gesell's solution"

Published 2003; there is a PDF format display of a slide presentation he made to accompany his verbal presentations.
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 11:11 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Marvin Goodfriend of the Richmond Federal Reserve published a paper in 2003 titled: "OVERCOMING THE ZERO BOUND ON INTEREST RATE POLICY"

Working Paper WP 00-03

Everyone was horrified at that paper and I tried defending it as best I could.

Interestingly, Goodfriend wrote it without once putting Gesell's name in the paper. (54 pages)

Australian Economist Saun (Sean?) Turnbull agrees... and with Binary Economics.
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 11:53 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Another PDF; Lars E. O. Svensson; working paper 7957, October 2000, 47 pages

Archived at [link to www.nber.org]

Titled THE ZERO BOUND IN AN OPEN ECONOMY; A FOOLPROOF WAY OF ESCAPING FROM A LIQUIDITY TRAP
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 12:01 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Another working paper you might be interested in

IS NUMERAIROLOGY THE FUTURE OF MONETARY ECONOMICS? UNBUNDLING NUMERAIRE AND MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE THROUGH A VIRTUAL CURRENCY AND A SHADOW EXCHANGE RATE

Willem H Buiter; working paper 12839; 43 pages; 2007

[link to www.nber.org]
exo
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09/30/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Peter Kropotkin
exo
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09/30/2011 12:04 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
-devolution of government
Levi Philos

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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Some details about Wörgl; Ezra Pound visited; see page 14 (of 15 pages)

There is a chain of events from Ezra Pound to Eustace Mullens to G Edward Griffin. Perhaps Griffin knows about the events at Wörgl; perhaps not. Perhaps he knows but rejects the principles Gesell exposed.

[link to www.esnips.com]

If this doesn't download for you, post that as a reply and I will explore some other public posting bulletin board.
Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 12:50 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Peter Kropotkin
 Quoting: exo 2258216


[link to library.nothingness.org]

Proudhon recognized that a mutual credit monetary system would supply an important part of the answer. However, Proudhon probably never recognized the role of the state in enforcement of one important facet of a successful monetary system - specific performance of contract.

That aspect is caused by an underlying dishonesty of people in general and assures you that some vestige of the state will remain with us into the future.

Perhaps a review is in order:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Levi Philos

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09/30/2011 01:15 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Lysander Spooner, like Proudhon earlier, recognized that decentralized mutual credit likely provided a viable model.

Couldn't find the exact writing, but here are a couple of links closely related: [link to lysanderspooner.org]

and [link to en.wikipedia.org]
ethericplane

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09/30/2011 01:24 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
And do it all with internet voting and meaningful strikes!
say anything you want to. I have seen it all
gembouncer
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09/30/2011 06:08 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I am glad to have participated in this thread, and provided truth to this revolutionary idea to "get rid of" the money system and then "goverrments" as well. What a wonderful notion. It is like all of us agreeing to swat all the flies away from our collective body.

I have mentioned the Cornucopian Principle which says that all we desire, is provided for by nature.

I have suggested that women comforting soldiers volitionally and directly, would be one of the prime ideas of the King of Iron when he shows up. [link to en.wikipedia.org]

I have suggested that what will happen, when the IRS and all the governments are "got rid of", is a simple system of temples, where women will be paid directly and tangibly for their services as raisers of orphans or nurses to the wounded and needy. The iron coinage I mentioned, and the pastoral exchange of goods, is then met with the third leg, the temple priestess. You see in the future, the women are the collectors of tax and also the dispensers of healing. You go to them, to get relief, or to obtain medicine, or to pay the government. The collection of taxes in the future, is handled by the women

Gone are the days of the tax collecting Romans as in Jesus parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee. [link to en.wikipedia.org] No, rather than tax collectors, the maiden who was destined for stoning by the Pharisee, is thereby ELEVATED above them, by the King of Iron. She whom they would stone, is given the crown of God, to destroy their pharisaical systems. Do you see? The King of Iron, like Solomon in the bible, knows that only a true mother, can act to save the lives of children. That's how the King is, he will mess with people's heads and turn the world upside down, to heal it. You see?

Here again is the economic/healing Cornucopian triad of the King of Iron, A: food and fruit and veggies don't need money at all, called "pastoral trade", B: Iron Coinage of weight defeats all currency and coin clipping schemes, destroys all black markets, and C: Temple love arrangements provide revenue for government and soldiery and healing of damaged soldiery when they return from war. << Note that item #3 is key because typically today, Kissinger and such ones, see soldiers as stupid apes to be used as cannon fodder. The King of Iron rejects this idea of fighters being "cannon fodder". He loves and respects his soldiers and their families, and so he does not abandon them when they come back with limbs missing, he has them work and live in the temples, being given the sweetest cherries and strawberries. You see?

Now, it is hard to get all these hypnotized dumkoffs today, to think about truth. As you can see, I am the only one ringing the King's bell, a bell of Iron of course, and so I am just getting in line for his favor. However, in that light, and in the spirit of trying to bring forth nature and to try and shake you up, I offer this newsbyte.

The point I would like you to glean from it, is this: It takes groups of women (mothers, grandmothers), to resolve this sort of issue. Men in groups cannot resolve it, because they are compromised, by their nature. Well perhaps gay men are not mentioned in this article, but assuredly gay men are also in search of what is called "jailbait". So men bait and punish each other, to make one rich and the other blackmailed or controlled.

You see, under the King of Iron, all blackmail will be defeated by making clean what was dirty. Thereafter, nobody will be able to blackmail anyone, because blackmail (worth more than gold btw) will be shame based, and shame will be greatly reduced by the King's ideas.

Typically one baits using tasty stuff, and a nice sharp hook. But this is more manipulation and prison farming of humans, which doesn't make the world a better place. The only way to resolve this 'jailbait pimp' hypocritical issue, without goverrments, is to let the mothers and maidens dispense sex lovingly, in a way that is conducive to a better society. The mistreatment of these girls at the hands of their own male authority figures, is a symptom of this world that most humans are not mature enough to really confront. I am glad to have helped by explaining this.

Realize please that what I am saying in this thread, is like .00001% of what kind of shake up you are facing if you actually do "get rid of" money and governments. I do believe the King of Iron will have to slay some mighty enemies, in order to implement his system, but it's much better than anything we've had to date. He will free all prostitutes by making church into a sex-friendly thing. He will free all the indebted by making money a pain in the ass.

So I hope you can gaze into the mirror in the spirit of Jesus, and ask yourself if my words here be true. And this will prepare you for what it's like to be kicked out of Satan's nest, in which we all live right now. Naturally to "get rid of" money and governments means to get rid of Satan and all devils. But in so doing, you would have to see the devils inside you, and your friends, and neighbors, and yes, business partners and fraternity members and so on. At some point, you would think that bullshit gets pushed out by honesty. But no, some people will dissonate in circles their whole lives, never leaving bad memes behind, never rejecting the shame that binds them, and which is pressed against them like stones.

[I guess the owner of the pimp-based news content below, the "Guardian UK" may sue people for using this content, I am using it for social commentary and not to make a shekel so I pray they allow it.]


----ardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/18/loverboy-child-prostitutio​n-netherlands

Manou was a "loverboy" - a phenomenon that has plunged the Netherlands into a wave of soul-searching. Loverboys, often in their 20s, single out insecure, underage girls in schools, coffee-shops, outside care homes, and woo them as "boyfriends", promising love, clothes, status and excitement. Then they start to run them as prostitutes, drug-mules and gun-runners, or extort money from them, isolating them from their friends and families.

The girls, emotionally and financially dependant on their loverboys, find themselves locked into a cycle of abuse, sometimes made to work in windows in official red-light districts or being handed from flat to flat in several cities.

The decade-old problem in the Netherlands has now been catapulted on to the political agenda after Mosterd wrote an account of her four years from the age of 12 to 16 when she was forced to work for her loverboy. The book, Real Men Don't Eat Cheese, has been a bestseller, a film is in pre-production, and politicians, police, teachers and parents are mobilising like never before.

The public is asking why, in a nation where prostitution above the age of 18 is legal and regulated, a crooked sub-culture of loverboys and their child-prostitute "girlfriends" exists. Mosterd's family is suing her school for not properly investigating her truancy. Jamila Yahyaoui, of the Dutch Socialist party, which is pressing the government for more police action, more prosecutions and more shelters for victims, said: "Every year several hundred girls fall into the hands of loverboys, but only five cases lead to convictions. That has to change."

Sitting in her living room, Mosterd, now 20, described her daily routine. "I would go to school on my bike. He'd be waiting for me. He'd give me different clothes to wear, otherwise my mother would smell the smoke on me. He thought of everything. He'd make sure I was back at home by 5pm, so I could have dinner with my mum."

During the day she would be driven to houses and flats to sleep with men, often two or three at a time. There were rapes and beatings. She had to help single out other girls and deliver drugs and guns in her school bag - the police never noticed "a sweet little girl".

"Manou had regular customers. Some were fathers, family men, company directors, school directors," she said.
Levi Philos

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10/04/2011 12:17 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The post below has been reposted to a new thread addressing a Canadian issue of silver coinage.

here: Thread: CANADA introduces 99.99% silver coins for circulation. Silver is money. (Page 2)

Dollar" - The Name and Usage

The word "dollar" was historically associated with silver coins, not gold. Here are a couple of citations.


The word "dollar" is derived from Low Saxon "daler", an abbreviation of "Joachimsdaler" – (coin) from Joachimstal – so called because it was minted from 1519 onwards using silver extracted from a mine which had opened in 1516 near Joachimstal, a town in the Ore Mountains of northwestern Bohemia. [link to en.wikipedia.org]

The weight of silver in the dollar coins varied widely over time and place; the earliest "taler" (sometimes "thaller") coins (in Scandinavian countries "daler") were about 8 grams, the Spanish created the milled "dollar" with the edge reeds to prevent scraping of the edges; and the first US dollar was about one ounce - 31 grams more or less. The Hanseatic League who were businessmen of northern Europe settled their accounts using the silver coinage and this spread down to Spain and over to the new country - the north American states. [link to www.projects.ex.ac.uk]

The period of time from 1519 to 1873 when the coinage act was passed that demonitzed silver and made gold the recognized "dollar" [link to coinschool.blogspot.com] was about 350 years. Even after that coinage act, silver continued to circulate and silver "dollars" could be found in the great basin states, especially Nevada up to about 1960. Altogether about 425 years.

The William Bryan speech "Cross of Gold" was a reaction to the switch from silver to gold: short version:

[link to www.youtube.com] (3.5 minutes) - longer 9.3 minute version from 1921:

[link to www.historicalvoices.org]



Douglas Gnazzo wrote a five part series in 2005 that says basically that silver is the lawful money of the states and gold was only priced in relationship to silver.

[link to www.financialsense.com]

[link to www.financialsense.com]

[link to www.financialsense.com]

[link to www.financialsense.com]

[link to www.financialsense.com]



Here is a little thing I have been repeating lately; "Paper money cannot hold value, paper money can only serve as a title instrument or warehouse receipt describing the value and where the value is held."


Credit instruments based upon unbacked paper are then given value by the people who back it with their products and their intellectual and physical labor. The people become the final creditors when the banks fail to back the credit entries. Compare to this Barefoot Bob piece: [link to www.barefootsworld.net]
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644
Levi Philos

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10/04/2011 12:51 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
New material from Richard Cook: [link to www.richardccook.com]

Longish piece; title: "Seeing Through the Illusion of Money: From Barter to the Gaia Plan"

Rather longish piece; if you have a problem with focus you probably should not attempt to read that.

FYI - Richard Cook was the whistle blower that tried to get the fatal Challenger flight from leaving the ground.

I haven't followed his stuff as closely as I might, but do endorse his concept of credit as a public utility.
Anonymous Coward
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10/04/2011 12:51 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
You forgot one other thing
RELIGION
Levi Philos

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10/04/2011 01:18 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thread: CANADA introduces 99.99% silver coins for circulation. Silver is money. (Page 2)

On George Selgin:

George Selgin: [link to www.terry.uga.edu] and [link to www.terry.uga.edu] wrote a book in 1988 on free banking in Scotland, England, and the USA. It was pretty interesting, and he has some unique viewpoints on Gresham's law also.

However, this is to advise an attempt to gain his paper on how English button-makers stamped small brass coins that were used in exchange for low-value commerce. Steam engines were new at that time, but the engineering and casting was current technology.

His book is blurbed here: [link to www.terry.uga.edu]

Good Money: Birmingham Button Makers, the Royal Mint, and the Beginnings of Modern Coinage, 1775-1821

I have some chapters from that book, but not on this computer.
 Quoting: Levi Philos
Levi Philos

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10/04/2011 01:25 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
You forgot one other thing
RELIGION
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 1536650


Not at all. Poster "Iron Rods" the GemBuster has made frequent references to temple prostitutes...

Look for the phrase "Persuasion Techniques" on page 19 of this thread: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 19) one-third of the page down.

That page and subsequent pages address the belief aspect associated with the money memeplex.
Levi Philos

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10/04/2011 01:33 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Private Supply of Money by George A. Selgin at a Mises conference

[link to www.youtube.com]

Levi Philos

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10/05/2011 03:05 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The transcript of the complete William Bryan "Cross of Gold" speech: [link to historymatters.gmu.edu]

There is an audio file on the same page.
Anonymous Coward
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10/12/2011 12:10 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Poster #590644 Has been banned from this forum.
gembuster
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10/13/2011 02:16 PM
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Poster #590644 Has been banned from this forum.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3131543


You talkin bout Levi Philos? Baned you say? A TRAVESTY... Except if this forum has become irrelevant to truth.

It seems like someone thinks Vladimir Putin can resolve things?

But just like Hitler, Vlad failed to hold Grozny. Well he may be holding it now, but the enemy if at his gates in the form of AQ and the heroin needle.

I do not agree with the Dope Inc. author who rails against all drugs.

Because every human has a right to every plant. However, processing of drugs (or food for that matter) beyond the level of the moonshine still, is going to attract the revenuers.

The King of Iron will defend every human's right to plant life. That is the first position. You can grow a poppy, and yes, you can do what you want with it, but the systems will be gone.

Therefore, under the King of Iron, your neighbor shall grow whatever plant he want. The sherrif need not step in, unless there is a businessman's mentality being applied to plants.

The business of plants, is in the hands of those who would starve all humans on Earth. First order of business is to end that. The final war, on behalf of plant life, against those who prefer blacktop and cement.
VAEROSPACE

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10/13/2011 02:24 PM
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Anonymous Coward
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10/13/2011 02:35 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
bump
gemcrusher
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10/16/2011 02:16 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Consider which of these would be the better thing to hold:

1: 1000 FRNs
2: A paycheck for 1000 FRNs
3: 1000 bananas?

The question would be, can you sell the 1000 bananas for 1.01 FRNs each? Well, that's not the question, but they do go bad, and you do have to move them quickly or face an equity loss.

Whereas the FRNs, though silly, do allow some time for bananas to reach the hungry.

But oh so many middlemen have to create item #2, the paycheck, for each of the millions of peeps, in order for the bananas not to rot. Or wait, is it really so hard to give a yummy 'nana to some hungry kid? Hmm.. This modern economics makes my head spin. I can't imagine any child wanting to spend four years in a University to pay to become one of the titled economists who get blamed when it fails. Better to wait for the banana than to play along with the game that says bananas are like gold. To a child, you cannot compare a banana to a gold coin. One is yummy and one is not. And Reserve Notes, well, who knows what the fuck they are.
dru you feel me?
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10/22/2011 12:09 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Oh what's that? All the mortgage backed 'securities' (truly hilarious term) are now crap, according to the Mass. Supremes?

It took them over a year to decided that.

They are the slowest justices ever, these "MERS" land court justices.

Like a slurpee which takes an hour to fill the cup.

Drip.
Drip.
Drip.

...goes the sound of "justice"

in regards to "securities"

Based on "homes"

yes, "homes" which actually PROVIDE SECURITY MEANING A ROOF. Homes as such, are now insecure, securities, and therefore, insecure. What kind of supreme assery, does it take to make homes, insecure, en mass?

This thread is the epic thread of the Earth, 2011, signed, sealed certified. If we ever get to talking, I can't wait to refer to this thread. Chock full o' goodness.

There are some remnants somewhere on this domain, where I discussed the MERS thing, it was some thread called "Yours truly is taking on the banks" and written by some dude. I wish I could find it and bounce it, but all IP "truth" domains of 2011 have crap searches on purpose it seems.
columbian blow
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10/23/2011 09:34 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Let's set the issue of drugs aside for a second. Let's discuss the real.

A man, will sacrifice everything (or risk everything at least), for the right oral service.

That service, costs about 20 FRNs on your average street corner. Throw in five bucks for a box of condoms and you're good to go.

But the cop (who is a paycheck-recieving non-thinking tool of the judge) is ordered/required to harass and fuck with, the givers of oral service. From where do those silly orders issue? What makes a judge and a cop, conspire to remove oral service from the population?

And the cop and the judge and the gangster are all massive hypocrites, because they too, enjoy oral service (perhaps from their fellow males it's true, but nevertheless, they are hypocrites.

So the empowered-ghey-hypocrite-class represents a huge evil in that they secretly know, that oral service is desired by humans, but they police it so that it can only happen within certain vague situations like getting married and shit like that. They will disallow the servicing! What right do they have, to prevent normal behavior and transaction?

Most of the laws which got written first in these US counties, were laws designed to curb "sodomy" ...But in sodom, it was men who wanted to rape other men! Totally ghey. So the law books are written by the same sort of sodomites, who fail to realize, that at sodom, Lot offered his sweet virgin daughters --and the ghey men and boys turned these down! Sodomy means: The religion of women hating.

If you want to fight sodomy, then Lot of the bible, explains how that can be done. But I am saying the daughters of Lot should have some say in the process. Lot tried to save sodom in the bible, but he failed. Notice that when the sweet females were rejected by these men, the angels knew the whole city was toast. They then said "flee!" but not until the holy cup of Lot's daughters, was rejected. Only then, did they designate the city for destruction. They allowed Lot to try his gambit.

Since these men in power, are massively hypocritical, and hugely ghey, in their hatred for lovely streetwalking ladies who provide oral service, then perhaps you can see the new way I am describing?

There is not a man alive, who wouldn't jump at the right flavor of oral service. If it costs 20 FRNs, let's say, then why is it so hard to get the service? If a man work for 8 hours at a post-IRS wage of say 100 FRNs per day, that's 5 oral services per day --A SURPLUS OF SLURP-US.

The average daily US wage of FRNs will pay for more oral service than a man (or woman) can really enjoy. So why is the world so fucked up by these men in power, who secretly get their jollies (as I explained on the last page) while they are also, wrecking the world through their fraternal ghey societies? Why the manloving, and why the womanhating? What is the genus of their hatred for the female?

It seems simple to this observor, that 100 FRNs per day will pay for at least two oral servicings, and also will pay for a vehicle, and shelter, and food.

So in the "new economy", what you really have to do, is remove the ghey and anti-sex elements, who run the courts.

The judge has a penis pump under the desk, as he sends hookers to jail. Isn't that funny? It's hilarious in fact. There is no gheyer place than the upper teirs of the pyramid where wimmen hating is their religion. It's funny.

When the time comes, the wimmen will be free to encourage the better men to rise up (ahem) and remove the normal-sex-haters, i.e. sodomites, wimmen haters. I am not advocating revolution, just a more real existence.

End sodomy worldwide, by empowering women just like the biblical Lot did, when he was faced with a city full of sodomites. Women are the greatest thing ever made, and it is a damn shame there are so few real men who will rise to that truth.
C.j. UpyoursSatan
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10/23/2011 09:39 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Gee guess there isnt enough ink and bark.
Anonymous Coward
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10/23/2011 12:00 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Consider which of these would be the better thing to hold:

1: 1000 FRNs
2: A paycheck for 1000 FRNs
3: 1000 bananas?

The question would be, can you sell the 1000 bananas for 1.01 FRNs each? Well, that's not the question, but they do go bad, and you do have to move them quickly or face an equity loss.

Whereas the FRNs, though silly, do allow some time for bananas to reach the hungry.
 Quoting: gemcrusher 3110407

For some insight on Gesell's insights about how a money system should behave according to natural law (it is about storing food) do a search for Gesell + Robinson Crusoe

The story is found in many places; some with only the words and some with cartoon illustrations.

Words only: [link to www.altruists.org]
and: [link to www.smallisbeautiful.org]

With cartoon illustrations: [link to userpage.fu-berlin.de]
Anonymous Coward
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10/23/2011 12:14 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Food was one of the first items represented by money symbols beginning back in ancient Egypt.

On page ten of this thread you can discover a longish piece by Hyman Blumenstock on food backing money.

Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 10)

At this thread there are external links to biographical details about Mr Blumenstock. (deceased)

Thread: Hyman Blumenstock, US Army Air Force
armored sleeping bags?
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10/24/2011 11:00 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Food was one of the first items represented by money symbols beginning back in ancient Egypt.

On page ten of this thread you can discover a longish piece by Hyman Blumenstock on food backing money.

Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 10)

At this thread there are external links to biographical details about Mr Blumenstock. (deceased)

Thread: Hyman Blumenstock, US Army Air Force
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3131543


Welcome back Levi Philos.

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