Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

Shortly after I purchased the book NEW MONEY FOR HEALTHY COMMUNITIES (published 1994) (Thomas Greco) from bookseller "Loompanics" -

[link to www.google.com]

I telephoned Greco and learned something new over the phone.

The list of attributes for money are self-conflicting in at least one place.

Of the first two:
(1)Medium of Exchange; and
(2)Store of Value

It becomes obvious with a bit of thought that these are in conflict; something with a certain store of value will not exchange at any velocity.

This common list of (usually five) attributes usually fails to include a sixth:

(6)Tool of Empire

Nor does anyone ever tell Econ 101 students that these presumptions are generally true for a precious metal coin, but the moment the coin is exchanged for a warehouse receipt the rules change; and...

These presumptions are of an axiomatic nature - if incorrect all derivative conclusions are also in error.

It has since become clear to me that not only should the store of value be given a formal divorce from the medium of exchange, but also the value reference need not be the item stored. This is a more subtle distinction but a truism... IMO.

The problems are deeply rooted in the social memeplex and are of an axiomatic nature.

I have been criticized for asking readers to make canyon wide leaps, but once you get across the chasm you will look back and note that it is but a little crack.

Money is a special extension of language...
A communication...
By symbols and contracts...
That rationalize distribution and exchange...
Of real things by proxy.

The relationship of the money system to the physical economy is like the relationship of a topographical map to the geography. If you tossed an old topo map into a burning fireplace would you look out the window expecting the rocks and road, mountains and streams to suddenly burst into flame?

This model for money belongs in the dustbin of history along with the flat-earth maps.

Last Edited by Levi Philos on 09/27/2011 01:28 PM

Turned out Greco had been there and knew those people.

Greco does not agree with the demurrage principle; however Bernard Lietaer and Stephan DeMeulenaere do agree.

Greco also does not agree that the measure of value could be human time... - but many people repeat... TIME IS MONEY

Time is money in Ithaca New York, and Dr Blain of the University of Southern Illinois (retired) wrote the pamphlet suggesting time as the measure of value.

And your opinion is welcome...

Sounds good to me

In terms of first principles, time is indeed money.

You and I agree that I will work for you for one hour, and in exchange, you will give me 100 Federation Credits (calories, gold, or FRNs, fill in your favorite exchange medium).

I perform that work and you pay me the 100 Credits.

That is a one-way exchange of value for time. Life time.
I can't give you back the 100 credits and add 1 hour of life to my allotted lifetime.

Then the Federal Vampire swoops in and steals 33 of those 100 Credits.

It has effectively stolen a third of my life which I can never get back.

Multiply by your entire lifetime, and multiply that by every person being taxed.

Wage/income taxation is genocide by degrees.

Last Edited by Crowmedian on 09/27/2011 08:08 PM

Here is a Google advanced search for "The Natural Economic Order" in PDF format:

[link to www.google.com]

There is an abbreviated version out there also in PDF format.

The full version is 207 pages. The nice thing about the PDF format version is you can search by word easily.

Gesell is often times accused of being a socialist, but a search for socialism will quickly remove that idea.

He was a student of Henry George - that is one part I strongly disagree with. Always sounded too much like "all property is owned by the state, with rents payable to the state" (which is - in case you don't know - one of the planks of the communist manifesto).

Perhaps I'll post some more bits and pieces about Gesell...

Willem H. Buiter (London School of Economics) did some writing and speaking from 2003 to 2009 on Gesellian economic theory.

"Overcoming the zero bound on nominal interest rates with negative interest on currency: Gesell's solution"

Published 2003; there is a PDF format display of a slide presentation he made to accompany his verbal presentations.

Marvin Goodfriend of the Richmond Federal Reserve published a paper in 2003 titled: "OVERCOMING THE ZERO BOUND ON INTEREST RATE POLICY"

Working Paper WP 00-03

Everyone was horrified at that paper and I tried defending it as best I could.

Interestingly, Goodfriend wrote it without once putting Gesell's name in the paper. (54 pages)

Australian Economist Saun (Sean?) Turnbull agrees... and with Binary Economics.

Another PDF; Lars E. O. Svensson; working paper 7957, October 2000, 47 pages

Archived at [link to www.nber.org]

Titled THE ZERO BOUND IN AN OPEN ECONOMY; A FOOLPROOF WAY OF ESCAPING FROM A LIQUIDITY TRAP

Another working paper you might be interested in

IS NUMERAIROLOGY THE FUTURE OF MONETARY ECONOMICS? UNBUNDLING NUMERAIRE AND MEDIUM OF EXCHANGE THROUGH A VIRTUAL CURRENCY AND A SHADOW EXCHANGE RATE

Willem H Buiter; working paper 12839; 43 pages; 2007

[link to www.nber.org]

Peter Kropotkin

-devolution of government

Some details about Wörgl; Ezra Pound visited; see page 14 (of 15 pages)

There is a chain of events from Ezra Pound to Eustace Mullens to G Edward Griffin. Perhaps Griffin knows about the events at Wörgl; perhaps not. Perhaps he knows but rejects the principles Gesell exposed.

[link to www.esnips.com]

If this doesn't download for you, post that as a reply and I will explore some other public posting bulletin board.

[link to library.nothingness.org]

Proudhon recognized that a mutual credit monetary system would supply an important part of the answer. However, Proudhon probably never recognized the role of the state in enforcement of one important facet of a successful monetary system - specific performance of contract.

That aspect is caused by an underlying dishonesty of people in general and assures you that some vestige of the state will remain with us into the future.

Perhaps a review is in order:
[link to www.youtube.com]

Lysander Spooner, like Proudhon earlier, recognized that decentralized mutual credit likely provided a viable model.

Couldn't find the exact writing, but here are a couple of links closely related: [link to lysanderspooner.org]

and [link to en.wikipedia.org]

No Treason: The Constitution of No Authority.

One of my primary anarcho-capitalism formative documents.

And do it all with internet voting and meaningful strikes!

I don't like the term "strike". It has connotations of both lemming-like collectivist herd mentality, and uninformed, self-destructive greed.

Also, strikes are always a means of intimidation against an employer with whom a free-will contract was entered into by the employees.

I'd like to submit that individuals who cease work to achieve moral ends, ie increasing individual freedom and decreasing government authority and ability, be described as being engaged in "galting", for obvious reasons.

Last Edited by Crowmedian on 09/30/2011 01:30 PM

I am glad to have participated in this thread, and provided truth to this revolutionary idea to "get rid of" the money system and then "goverrments" as well. What a wonderful notion. It is like all of us agreeing to swat all the flies away from our collective body.

I have mentioned the Cornucopian Principle which says that all we desire, is provided for by nature.

I have suggested that women comforting soldiers volitionally and directly, would be one of the prime ideas of the King of Iron when he shows up. [link to en.wikipedia.org]

I have suggested that what will happen, when the IRS and all the governments are "got rid of", is a simple system of temples, where women will be paid directly and tangibly for their services as raisers of orphans or nurses to the wounded and needy. The iron coinage I mentioned, and the pastoral exchange of goods, is then met with the third leg, the temple priestess. You see in the future, the women are the collectors of tax and also the dispensers of healing. You go to them, to get relief, or to obtain medicine, or to pay the government. The collection of taxes in the future, is handled by the women

Gone are the days of the tax collecting Romans as in Jesus parable of the tax collector and the Pharisee. [link to en.wikipedia.org] No, rather than tax collectors, the maiden who was destined for stoning by the Pharisee, is thereby ELEVATED above them, by the King of Iron. She whom they would stone, is given the crown of God, to destroy their pharisaical systems. Do you see? The King of Iron, like Solomon in the bible, knows that only a true mother, can act to save the lives of children. That's how the King is, he will mess with people's heads and turn the world upside down, to heal it. You see?

Here again is the economic/healing Cornucopian triad of the King of Iron, A: food and fruit and veggies don't need money at all, called "pastoral trade", B: Iron Coinage of weight defeats all currency and coin clipping schemes, destroys all black markets, and C: Temple love arrangements provide revenue for government and soldiery and healing of damaged soldiery when they return from war. << Note that item #3 is key because typically today, Kissinger and such ones, see soldiers as stupid apes to be used as cannon fodder. The King of Iron rejects this idea of fighters being "cannon fodder". He loves and respects his soldiers and their families, and so he does not abandon them when they come back with limbs missing, he has them work and live in the temples, being given the sweetest cherries and strawberries. You see?

Now, it is hard to get all these hypnotized dumkoffs today, to think about truth. As you can see, I am the only one ringing the King's bell, a bell of Iron of course, and so I am just getting in line for his favor. However, in that light, and in the spirit of trying to bring forth nature and to try and shake you up, I offer this newsbyte.

The point I would like you to glean from it, is this: It takes groups of women (mothers, grandmothers), to resolve this sort of issue. Men in groups cannot resolve it, because they are compromised, by their nature. Well perhaps gay men are not mentioned in this article, but assuredly gay men are also in search of what is called "jailbait". So men bait and punish each other, to make one rich and the other blackmailed or controlled.

You see, under the King of Iron, all blackmail will be defeated by making clean what was dirty. Thereafter, nobody will be able to blackmail anyone, because blackmail (worth more than gold btw) will be shame based, and shame will be greatly reduced by the King's ideas.

Typically one baits using tasty stuff, and a nice sharp hook. But this is more manipulation and prison farming of humans, which doesn't make the world a better place. The only way to resolve this 'jailbait pimp' hypocritical issue, without goverrments, is to let the mothers and maidens dispense sex lovingly, in a way that is conducive to a better society. The mistreatment of these girls at the hands of their own male authority figures, is a symptom of this world that most humans are not mature enough to really confront. I am glad to have helped by explaining this.

Realize please that what I am saying in this thread, is like .00001% of what kind of shake up you are facing if you actually do "get rid of" money and governments. I do believe the King of Iron will have to slay some mighty enemies, in order to implement his system, but it's much better than anything we've had to date. He will free all prostitutes by making church into a sex-friendly thing. He will free all the indebted by making money a pain in the ass.

So I hope you can gaze into the mirror in the spirit of Jesus, and ask yourself if my words here be true. And this will prepare you for what it's like to be kicked out of Satan's nest, in which we all live right now. Naturally to "get rid of" money and governments means to get rid of Satan and all devils. But in so doing, you would have to see the devils inside you, and your friends, and neighbors, and yes, business partners and fraternity members and so on. At some point, you would think that bullshit gets pushed out by honesty. But no, some people will dissonate in circles their whole lives, never leaving bad memes behind, never rejecting the shame that binds them, and which is pressed against them like stones.

[I guess the owner of the pimp-based news content below, the "Guardian UK" may sue people for using this content, I am using it for social commentary and not to make a shekel so I pray they allow it.]


----ardian.co.uk/world/2009/aug/18/loverboy-child-prostitutio​n-netherlands

Manou was a "loverboy" - a phenomenon that has plunged the Netherlands into a wave of soul-searching. Loverboys, often in their 20s, single out insecure, underage girls in schools, coffee-shops, outside care homes, and woo them as "boyfriends", promising love, clothes, status and excitement. Then they start to run them as prostitutes, drug-mules and gun-runners, or extort money from them, isolating them from their friends and families.

The girls, emotionally and financially dependant on their loverboys, find themselves locked into a cycle of abuse, sometimes made to work in windows in official red-light districts or being handed from flat to flat in several cities.

The decade-old problem in the Netherlands has now been catapulted on to the political agenda after Mosterd wrote an account of her four years from the age of 12 to 16 when she was forced to work for her loverboy. The book, Real Men Don't Eat Cheese, has been a bestseller, a film is in pre-production, and politicians, police, teachers and parents are mobilising like never before.

The public is asking why, in a nation where prostitution above the age of 18 is legal and regulated, a crooked sub-culture of loverboys and their child-prostitute "girlfriends" exists. Mosterd's family is suing her school for not properly investigating her truancy. Jamila Yahyaoui, of the Dutch Socialist party, which is pressing the government for more police action, more prosecutions and more shelters for victims, said: "Every year several hundred girls fall into the hands of loverboys, but only five cases lead to convictions. That has to change."

Sitting in her living room, Mosterd, now 20, described her daily routine. "I would go to school on my bike. He'd be waiting for me. He'd give me different clothes to wear, otherwise my mother would smell the smoke on me. He thought of everything. He'd make sure I was back at home by 5pm, so I could have dinner with my mum."

During the day she would be driven to houses and flats to sleep with men, often two or three at a time. There were rapes and beatings. She had to help single out other girls and deliver drugs and guns in her school bag - the police never noticed "a sweet little girl".

"Manou had regular customers. Some were fathers, family men, company directors, school directors," she said.

The post below has been reposted to a new thread addressing a Canadian issue of silver coinage.

here: Thread: CANADA introduces 99.99% silver coins for circulation. Silver is money. (Page 2)

New material from Richard Cook: [link to www.richardccook.com]

Longish piece; title: "Seeing Through the Illusion of Money: From Barter to the Gaia Plan"

Rather longish piece; if you have a problem with focus you probably should not attempt to read that.

FYI - Richard Cook was the whistle blower that tried to get the fatal Challenger flight from leaving the ground.

I haven't followed his stuff as closely as I might, but do endorse his concept of credit as a public utility.

You forgot one other thing
RELIGION

Thread: CANADA introduces 99.99% silver coins for circulation. Silver is money. (Page 2)

On George Selgin:

Not at all. Poster "Iron Rods" the GemBuster has made frequent references to temple prostitutes...

Look for the phrase "Persuasion Techniques" on page 19 of this thread: Thread: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments (Page 19) one-third of the page down.

That page and subsequent pages address the belief aspect associated with the money memeplex.

The Private Supply of Money by George A. Selgin at a Mises conference

[link to www.youtube.com]

The transcript of the complete William Bryan "Cross of Gold" speech: [link to historymatters.gmu.edu]

There is an audio file on the same page.

Poster #590644 Has been banned from this forum.

You talkin bout Levi Philos? Baned you say? A TRAVESTY... Except if this forum has become irrelevant to truth.

It seems like someone thinks Vladimir Putin can resolve things?

But just like Hitler, Vlad failed to hold Grozny. Well he may be holding it now, but the enemy if at his gates in the form of AQ and the heroin needle.

I do not agree with the Dope Inc. author who rails against all drugs.

Because every human has a right to every plant. However, processing of drugs (or food for that matter) beyond the level of the moonshine still, is going to attract the revenuers.

The King of Iron will defend every human's right to plant life. That is the first position. You can grow a poppy, and yes, you can do what you want with it, but the systems will be gone.

Therefore, under the King of Iron, your neighbor shall grow whatever plant he want. The sherrif need not step in, unless there is a businessman's mentality being applied to plants.

The business of plants, is in the hands of those who would starve all humans on Earth. First order of business is to end that. The final war, on behalf of plant life, against those who prefer blacktop and cement.