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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2012 07:20 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Bill Still is selling a new Tee Shirt

BUY ICELANDIC
TELL THE BANKERS
TO POUND SAND

[link to www.secretofoz.com]


Max Keiser on Iceland

[link to www.maxkeiseronfacebook.com]
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2012 07:23 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Marshall McLuhan to Blain to Eric Harris-Braun & Arthur Brock

University of S Illinois Robert Blain quoted Marshall McLuhan's,
Understanding Media: Extensions of Man (1964).

"McLuhan suggested that money was a form of communication like speech
and writing."

and went on to ask: "Seeing money as a medium of communication
immediately raised the question, When money talks, what does it say?"

Blain goes on: "Quickly, I realized that money does not say what people
want. People must say what they want with a spoken or written statement,
or perhaps with a gesture."

Now the MetaCurrency guys Braun and Brock are using similar snippets
comparing money to language and communication.

There is a west coast tour up to Seattle - next stop Ashland Oregon on
May 5.
You can learn about the tour here:
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2012 07:26 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Personhood Franchise

[link to sedm.org]

493 pages; see pages 68 and 136 to learn how you buy into the contract.
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2012 07:35 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Magical Money Machine by Eustace Mullins

Full video

You Tube; 48 minutes long; the voice lags the image significantly which seems to be a problem with a lot of youtube videos - must be a common software problem.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Very effective. Mullins mentions Ezra Pound somewhere after the 25 minute mark.

There is a chain of connections from Ezra Pound through Eustace Mullins to Edward Griffin. Ezra Pound was held as a political prisoner until Eustace Mullins interceded on his behalf - the story is briefly told in this video.

Less than a thousand page views; should be watched by millions.
Anonymous Coward
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05/06/2012 07:38 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Uncontrolled speculation + debt as money = disaster

"How Hitler defied the bankers" - written by Gordon Wagner
[link to open.salon.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:13 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Kondratieff cycle (we are headed into winter) may be partly natural (I deny that); Money is not part of the natural world.

Money is a special extension of language - a communication.

A method of communicating the distribution and ownership of the commodities and finished products that people produce each day.

A method of rationalizing human effort.

Gold is not beans, but beans may be eaten.

Silver is not lumber but homes may be built with lumber.

The various communications of the monetary variety must necessarily be truthful.

The predictability factor depends on truth in monetary symbolism.

Well meaning and truthful people (truthful meaning they themselves believe their utterances) make mistakes in economic conclusions because they have departed entirely too far from recognizing that money is a symbolic and imaginary way of representing the natural world.

Gesell wrote and spoke some things back in the period of 1900 to 1920 that still remain to be integrated into economic thought and writing. These expositions were about the natural world and nature's laws that automatically become more important than man's representations.

Mises, in his 1200 page book HUMAN ACTION called Gesell a crank. One sentence. If Mises had any honesty he would have devoted at the very least a full chapter to Gesell. Mises was there; check the history - I did.

Gesell told some truth; Mises continued the lies in money.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:17 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
If money is a communication, maintaining truth in the communications is the role of the trusted intermediary. The intermediary becomes the guarantor of specific performance. To gain that end all players in the system must contribute according to their degree of usage of the system - via demurrage. The promissory note to create and deliver value in the future can continue to be hypothecated (this is the backbone of mutual credit), but the creator of the credit instrument must needfully have a good reputation (credibility) or make a deposit of precious metals commensurate with the risk.

The role of the trusted intermediary (the bank and the banker) can be played by an independent provider, but my preference is as an agency owned cooperatively by the players.

Little chunk coin has failed in part to recognize their role as trusted intermediary.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:24 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
2 things the human race will have to combine and achieve before we evolve.

if we don't, it will be like a stagnant parasite within us all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 876442


While I do like the idea of a pure bartering/trading of goods and services kind of world.

The no government structure whatsoever I have a hard time seeing. What would we do? Have local tribes? Also...there would always be one tribe or group who wants what another has...or will manipulate in some manner for an upper hand.

Another thought...this would pretty much mean that technological progression would come to a hault. I personally think this would be better as we seem to screw the world up with technology more than improve it. But for those people who think we can reach the stars someday this would be slowed greatly if not completely.

yes? no?
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:30 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I watched the Chris Hedges video yesterday. Interesting.

Three hours; I will be watching it again.

Chris Hedges would do well to study and learn what Charles Eisenstein says about monetary systems.

Here is a link where Eisenstein talks with Chris Martenson
[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:31 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This is a search string worth investigation:

"Charles Eisenstein" "Chris Hedges"
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:36 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Someone asked: how do we repay 4 eggs on a 3 egg loan - when the banks own all the chickens?

Here is how it really works.

The banks loan you a credit - so to follow that example - a credit worth 3 eggs.
When you repay the credit - 3 eggs worth of credit is destroyed.

However, the banks keep the extra egg credit to their own account.

But my claim is how can the banks make any loan of egg credit when they own neither chickens or eggs?

THE CREDIT THEY LOAN IS ALWAYS THE PROPERTY OF THE PEOPLE

So, we the people need to own the banks and place the banker into an agency relationship and run the banks as a not for profit with annual rebates just like the State of Alaska sends out oil rebate checks every year.

Where is my rebate check?

This is the heart of the seigniorage question.

With whom is the seigniorage properly vested in a credit money scheme?

And it comes straight out of the communist manifesto; plank five - The credit of the people is the property of the government. The government in turn assigned the people's credit to the banks via license. A license is a permit to do something that would otherwise be illegal. It would be illegal for a bank to loan you your own credit except that they have been licensed by the government to make such loans.

Wright Patman figured it out in 1964, but then took 141 pages to explain it.

Windy bastard; I just explained it in one post.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:39 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[link to www.youtube.com]

Chris Hedges "Brace Yourself! The American Empire Is Over & The Descent Is Going To Be Horrifying!" (Three hours)

Previously I have written "Money is a cultural decision making machine." and sometimes followed with "If you are unhappy with the culture you are living within, then you must participate in the reinvention of money."

So I went looking to discover what Charles Eisenstein might have said or written about Chris Hedges.

EXTRACTED QUOTES

[link to theconversation.org]



“Rather than an evil Illuminati, could that power be money? Some say that a global elite controls humanity via the money system, but could it be that it is rather the money system that controls the global elite? I’m sure many of you have known the feeling of being enslaved to money. The wealthy are not exempt, and indeed, possessing more of it, are even more deeply enslaved to its logic. It is truly an ‘invisible hand,’ a force that ‘makes the world go ’round.’ Moreover, the end toward which money compels us is one of misery and ugliness: the destruction of nature and culture, community and health, and all that is beautiful on earth.”



<SNIP>



“The new story says that the abiding intuition that you have carried perhaps your whole life, and which drew you to conspiracism in the first place, is true. The world is governed by a secret power that holds us in bondage to no good end. But the conspirators are not others, they are we, you and I and everyone. A secret agenda of domination and control has existed in nearly everyone, and a world embodying that agenda has congealed around us, attracted to the dark, reptilian energies we have harbored.”


In This Asylum the Inmates are in Charge…; I has met the enemy, and he is us.

[link to www.truthdig.com]



Chris Hedges: “When civilizations start to die they go insane. Let the ice sheets in the Arctic melt. Let the temperatures rise. Let the air, soil and water be poisoned. Let the forests die. Let the seas be emptied of life. Let one useless war after another be waged. Let the masses be thrust into extreme poverty and left without jobs while the elites, drunk on hedonism, accumulate vast fortunes through exploitation, speculation, fraud and theft. Reality, at the end, gets unplugged.”



Hedges ends with this reference to Walter Benjamin … “argued that capitalism is not only a formation 'conditioned by religion,' but is an ‘essentially religious phenomenon,’ albeit one that no longer seeks to connect humans with the mysterious forces of life. Capitalism, as Benjamin observed, called on human societies to embark on a ceaseless and futile quest for money and goods. This quest, he warned, perpetuates a culture dominated by guilt, a sense of inadequacy and self-loathing. It enslaves nearly all its adherents through wages, subservience to the commodity culture and debt peonage. The suffering visited on Native Americans, once Western expansion was complete, was soon endured by others, in Cuba, the Philippines, Nicaragua, the Dominican Republic, Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan. The final chapter of this sad experiment in human history will see us sacrificed as those on the outer reaches of empire were sacrificed. There is a kind of justice to this. We profited as a nation from this demented vision, we remained passive and silent when we should have denounced the crimes committed in our name, and now that the game is up we all go down together.”



END OF QUOTES
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:43 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Readers of this thread are well advised to obtain and read the Charles Eisenstein book SACRED ECONOMICS.

Here is his blog: [link to charleseisenstein.wordpress.com]
Here is his commentary on the THRIVE video: [link to theconversation.org]
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:47 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Magical Money Machine - Eustace Mullins - Full film

You Tube; 48 minutes long; the voice lags the image significantly which seems to be a problem with a lot of youtube videos - must be a common software problem.

[link to www.youtube.com]

Very effective. Mullins mentions Ezra Pound somewhere after the 25 minute mark.

There is a chain of connections from Ezra Pound through Eustace Mullins to Edward Griffin. Ezra Pound was held as a political prisoner until Eustace Mullins interceded on his behalf - the story is briefly told in this video.

Less than a thousand page views; should be watched by millions.

I have another point to make about that chain of events - about information that failed to transmit - to follow up later. (If I don't get banned again)
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:50 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This writer - Carolyn Marvin - succeeded in ringing my bell. (Yes, I mean in a Pavlovian manner.)

Her university page is: [link to www.asc.upenn.edu]

Now look at this: [link to www.asc.upenn.edu]

FULL EXTRACTION:

How communications technologies structure ways of thinking and feeling is a lifelong concern of James Carey's work. Along the way, he has acknowledged a debt to Harold Innis, the economic historian for whom differences in message transportability among media make all the social and cultural difference in the world. When Carey began his career as a media analyst, he entered a field in which the staple devices for examining media in society were biographies of media figures and histories of media organizations. Innis's work was different. He offered a powerful analytic framework that connected changes in the history of transportation and communications technology to dramatic changes in social structure. Carey's own distinctive development of these ideas has deeply influenced the terms of media analysis by scholars in the field.

To explore that thinking, we must understand a little about the Innisian concepts at its roots. For Innis, media in which the message does not change much over time are time-binding. They are preservers of culture, and their mode is memory. Such media are exemplified in architecture, stone, and especially religious tradition mediated through oral communication, the communication of one body directly with another. The messages of time-binding media are unstable over space. They become distorted if they travel any distance. Tradition is an excellent example since the habitual customs and gestures of a community are difficult to maintain at a distance. Removed from the communities and generations of believers that have nurtured them, they are easily misinterpreted.

In space-binding media, messages are not distorted much across distance, but cannot last long. They are extenders of culture, and their mode is power. Print and broadcast journalism are space-binding media that combine the easy transportability of paper with rapid electronic distribution by telephone, video and computer. Contemporary journalism is time-shortened and ephemeral. Unlike media crafted from messages painstakingly sedimented across centuries, like the Iliad or the Odyssey, contemporary media saturate the moment. They fill up every nook and cranny of public space. Wherever time-binding and space-binding technologies flourish together, powerful political states emerge, long- lasting and broadly extended across territory. The maintenance of political units as small as tribes and as large as empires depend on media.

END OF EXTRACTION

A money system is both a space binding and time binding cultural institution.

University of Southern Illinois Professor Robert Blain in quoting Marshall McLuhan asked: "If money is speaking, what is it saying?" and more about money as a communication and how money has long been recognized as an information bearing mechanism.

and Narayana Kocherlakota, head of the Minnesota fed, is correct when he writes that any piece of money - no matter what that piece is made of - is a cultural mnemonic device - "social memory."

The unanswered questions are about lies embedded so deeply into the matrix that they are nearly impossible to detect or root out.

The questions are something like this; pardon me for being unable to ask better questions;

Lie number one is about usury, and it goes something like this: "How can interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a money system ever be used to discharge all debt?"

Lie number two is about seigniorage, and it goes something like this: "By what process is the bank enabled the loaning of credit that is not the property of the bank?"


A money system is a space binding and time binding cultural institution, but when errors are embedded within the institution, the entire culture will be bent toward the demandments of the error until a cultural earthquake dislodges the errors.


An economic system is to the physical economy as a topographical map is to the physical geography. If you threw a topo map into a burning fireplace, would you look out the window expecting the rocks, roads, and marshlands to suddenly burst into flame?
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:56 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
What is Money?

[link to cromalternativemoney.org]

It begins with the Professor Auriti piece on the Induction of Value to Money which many are familiar with; however, some lines will be new...

Such as: "If printing the word note on a piece of green paper makes it a note, could we not print the word orange on it and get juice from it?"

The author "Teknik" is unknown to me, but if he is familiar with Hans Herman Hopp and the writings of de Sota: [link to www.mises.org] then that makes him likely an Austrian School writer.


Search for the Congressman Wright Patman piece from 1964

141 pages; you should all be familiar with this piece. (2.23 megabyte image format pdf)

Scanned from the congressional record

Perhaps a dollar is a fish?

That was the question Broken Wrench of Louisiana asked and which won a multi-thousands reduction in a debt.
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 10:59 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Coratia July 10 - 12 meeting:
Croatia lies east of Italy at the north end across the Adriatic sea.
Map: [link to www.lonelyplanet.com]


Crom forum discussion: [link to cromalternativemoney.org]
Not much discussion except for one category; END THE FED has 53 replies.

Announcing a conference: FIRST INTERNATIONAL SOCIAL TRANSFORMATION CONFERENCE
Sponsored by the Crom alternative currency group. [link to cromalternativemoney.org]

The link to details of the conference is failing to open this May 15 am: [link to www.teslaconference.org]

Some philosophical introduction is found here:
[link to cromalternativemoney.org]

The city of Split Crotia is described by Lonely Planet as:

As the largest Croatian city on the Adriatic coast and a major transport hub, Split (‘Spalato’ in Italian) is more exciting than relaxing. With a massive port sending ferries out to the Dalmatian islands and beyond, Split is a nearly obligatory stop on a Dalmatian visit. Although ringed with apartment-block housing of stupefying ugliness, the remarkable Diocletian’s Palace (a World Heritage site) makes a visit to the city more than worthwhile. In the centre of town, within the ancient walls of Diocletian’s Palace, rises the majestic cathedral surrounded by a tangle of marble streets containing shops and businesses. The entire western end of town is a vast, wooded mountain park with beaches below and pathways above. A refurbished harbourside promenade lined with cafés makes for a pleasant stroll, and the high coastal mountains set against the blue Adriatic provide a striking frame, best appreciated as your ferry heads into or out of the port.

[link to www.lonelyplanet.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 11:02 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Michael Tellinger lawsuit against south African banks

You tube: [link to www.youtube.com] (Michael Tellinger joins ABN's Samantha Loring in studio)

[link to www.newera.org.za]

Six documents and a petition.

Supreme Court of Appeals

The JJ Bosman Case (45 Kb; 51 pages)

[link to www.newera.org.za]


Online related petition

[link to micro2.majesticinteractive.co.za]
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 11:16 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
See Eisenstein’s new book: Sacred Economics: Money, Gift, and Society in the Age of Transition.

The book: [link to sacred-economics.com]

from [link to exopermaculture.com]

(Hedges Eisenstein search hit)
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 11:46 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Regarding Sequestration: Thread: IMPORTANT SHIT GLPERS DON'T ALL KNOW ABOUT: Sequestration (Massive Automatic-Cuts to the Federal Gov in Jan 2013 that is already LAW)

The credit that the international bankers loaned is the property of the people.

Learn on this thread about "seigniorage" and discover how a massive theft is taking place.

It is all about the fifth plank of the communist manifesto that claims the credit of the people is the property of the government.

The government in turn assigned the people's credit to the banks who loan it back at interest.

This process allows the banking elites to buy up the assets of the entire world over time.

So, how much longer will you cooperate with this gang of pirates and road bandits?
Anonymous Coward
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06/26/2012 11:56 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
bump
Foster Gamble
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07/07/2012 08:25 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Foster Gamble on Free Energies, Money, Presidential, Conspiracies & the Thrive Movement movie (48 minutes)
[link to www.youtube.com]

Foster talks a lot about torroids. Search for Bearden and the MEG device and overunity dot com with Stefan Hartmann of Berlin. There is an entire thread or several threads on these topics.
Charles Eisenstein
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07/07/2012 08:30 PM
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Charles Eisenstein on conspiracies and the NWO:
[link to www.realitysandwich.com]

Eisenstein's book is worth acquiring and he is correct in many things. To some extent he and Gamble are both for positive futures and optimistic outcomes but there has been some dialog...

Eisenstein rejects conspiracy; I believe he is incorrect in his assessment (link above)
Foster Gamble
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07/07/2012 08:33 PM
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Foster Gamble discusses the CAFR accounts and credits Walter Burien
[link to www.youtube.com] (7:47 minutes)

Thrive Channel on YouTube [link to www.youtube.com]

Solutions: [link to www.thrivemovement.com]
Charles Eisenstein
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07/07/2012 08:35 PM
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I did a search "Foster Gamble" + "Charles Eisenstein" and found some interesting material.

Eisenstein says the story is wrong but the spirit is right:
[link to www.realitysandwich.com]

Foster Gamble's response: [link to www.realitysandwich.com]

The dialog continues (there is some overlap in these links):

[link to gaiaseus.wordpress.com]
[link to gaiaseus.wordpress.com]
[link to www.thrivemovement.com]
Anonymous Coward
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07/07/2012 08:46 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
There are a series of inventions that may or may not be related. These are worth investigating in light of the 48 minute video where Foster Gamble mentions torroids a number of times.

These begin with the Hans Coler device that came out prior to WWII.

Then, there is a European patent (will look it up - memory failure)

on the Stefan Hartmann site (Berlin) there are several threads on torroid related technologies.

Look for the Flynn "Parallel Path" device and the Bearden MEG device - all in a similar class.
Anonymous Coward
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07/07/2012 08:56 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Foster Gamble on Free Energies, Money, Presidential, Conspiracies & the Thrive Movement movie (48 minutes)
[link to www.youtube.com]

Flynn: [link to peswiki.com]

Hartmann Berlin is just overunity dot com
Anonymous Coward
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07/07/2012 09:02 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Here are the search terms for another related device that was issued a patent.

KUNEL PATENT DE3024814
Anonymous Coward
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07/07/2012 09:11 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Anyway, Foster gamble misses one very important subject by ignoring the money system.

Eisenstein directly addresses that problem and mostly correctly in my opinion.

MONEY IS A CULTURAL DECISION MAKING MACHINE AND THE CULTURE WE LIVE WITHIN IS FLAWED AS A DIRECT EFFECT OF USING A FLAWED MONETARY SYSTEM

Eisenstein is close to an answer in his book and speeches.
Anonymous Coward
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07/07/2012 09:17 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I would recommend just correcting the government system we have had in place for the last 240 years, the money system would then be able to self correct.

Get rid of the cancer, everything else gets better also.

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