Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

Counting the Cost of Money for nothing

Which is about the Islamic financial model as an alternative to the western model.

It is a video featured on the Aljazeera media outlet. (27 minutes)

[link to www.youtube.com]

When I saw this table full of drug money captured that is being carried into a courtroom as a display, it stuck me once again that the physical printed money is once again being confused with the credit money as a social phenomena and/or public property.

The printed money-media (money is a communication) is but a small percentage of the total money.

The far larger quantity of communication money exists as written records and as electronic entries.

The video does get into the process and asks good questions.

The table full of printed money-media is the visible symbol of a purported theft while the far larger theft is of the public credit - the unseen theft - where the banks trade among themselves with stolen media.

The public credit is the property of the general public and the only way to run such a banking model is where the banks are agents to the people with an annual or semi-annual rebate and banking books are held open for inspection.

The speaker in the video is Dr Jem Bendell of the University of Cumbria of Carlisle England. He is asking questions much like Prof Auriti of Italy asked.

Dr Bendell here: [link to www.positivemoney.org.uk]

Very effective speaker; there is a TED talk...

I haven't been an innocent in a long time.

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

Age 82? He shouldn't be a problem much longer, but your point was that he is typical of a class of people.

[link to www.economist.com]

Here is the TEDx talk by Jem Bendell

[link to www.youtube.com]

He made that trip around Europe and Greece with Greco and I have been hoping some stuff would hit you tube soon.

We all learn from each other; this problem will be solved.

A major portion of the video is from Professor Jem Bendell
[link to jembendell.wordpress.com]

In the Aljazeera featured video he speaks briefly about gold and then transits to mutual credit about 11 minutes into the video.

He is on the board of directors of Community Forge - a mutual credit effort.
[link to communityforge.net]
[link to drupal.org]
[link to howtocamp.takethesquare.net]

The talk jumps immediately into the "11th marble" problem while missing (just as I missed) the greater error that lies in the wrongful presumption that the bank actually owns the credit they are dealing in. This is the seigniorage problem in the credit as money system.

It is my position that in a money as a communal credit model where the system deals in exchange of credit units and in hypothecation of promissory notes that gold is better used as both medium of savings and where the same savings are used in a performance bond role.

People Money: The Promise of Regional Currencies

[link to www.triarchypress.com] by Margrit Kennedy, Bernard Lietaer and John Rogers. “People Money is a comprehensive guide to the principles and practice of regional currencies. It shows how regional currencies can transform the lives and well-being of local communities, how they can sustain businesses, how local authorities can participate in their success and, consequently, why supporting regional currencies is of vital importance to the future of your community, region or country.

Creating Sustainable Societies: The Rebirth of Democracy and Local Economies

[link to www.principledsocietiesproject.org] by John Boik. This book “first pinpoints the central problems within our financial, economic, and governance systems that have lead to high unemployment, massive debt, environmental degradation, mistrust of Congress and big business, and hyper-inequities of wealth and political power. The book then proposes a bold yet practical blueprint for addressing these concerns and creating meaningful change.” See also the website [link to www.principledsocietiesproject.org.]

Your Money or Your Life: Time for Both

[link to www.freedomfavours.com] by Martin Simon. This book “examines the many ways that people are rebuilding communities and includes the definitive description of a powerful social innovation called Timebanking which is connecting people once again to the places where they live and offering a rewarding and fair way for them to share their time and their skills. This collection of real life stories will show you how to find the time to become a valued member of a thriving local social network full of new contacts, opportunities and possibilities.”


Equal Time, Equal Value – Community Currencies and Time Banking in the US

[link to www.ashgate.com] by Ed Collom, Judith Lasker and Corinne Kyriacou. “Drawing upon detailed case studies and making use of a mix of qualitative and quantitative data this book explores the most popular type of what has been called 'community currencies', in which localized systems based on time or dollar equivalents act as the medium of exchange. As such, it offers rich insights into the challenge presented by Time Banking to both the traditional social service and economic models, through the creation of an environment of reciprocity in which everyone's work has equal value.”

[Levi Philos is clearly in opposition to the principle that everyone's time is of equal value]

Sort of cross referencing for myself here:

Spire lawsuit (regarding mortgage fraud)

Thread: Banksters Targets of Spire Law Group, LLP's Racketeering and Money Laundering Lawsuit Seeking Return of $43 Trillion to the US Treasury

The material quoted below was posted to the Canada issues silver coinage thread. (Just click on the link)

Frederick Raphael Burch wrote the book where this appeared - published in 1922. It is available as an image file that can be read online here: [link to babel.hathitrust.org]

and also here: [link to www.archive.org]

This is the preface to the book. The whole thing is 129 pages.

credits will do fine

Ok, I was able to download the Frederick Raphael Burch book from the Hathi Trust link. Several options are available; I chose the PDF option - This gave a 145 page file sized at 38.25 megabytes. It is an image file.

At the moment I am unable to do an OCR job on the file. Not sure it is a worth while endeavor yet.

The fundamentals from the preface are mostly correct - however the government as it exists cannot be trusted.

And, a strong centralized government will never be an institution that can be trusted simply because of human nature. Whether a non-human (computerized?) intelligence can be trusted is quite another question. Only a decentralized model for both money and governance has any hope (IMO) of success. Like Iceland - you need to know where the bastards sleep at night if you hope to have any influence.

Buckminster Fuller said pirates rule the world and IMO he was correct.

More to follow on that thought...

Pirates rule the earth; by Flemming Funch, 7 December 1994.

In his book "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth", in the chapter "Origins of Specialization", Buckminster Fuller tells the story about what he calls "The Great Pirates". This is my greatly shortened version of it:

[link to www.worldtrans.org]

Go to the link to read the piece, my point is that credit as money replaced coinage partly as a result of pirates at sea and road bandits on the overland trade routes. If you as a businessman sent someone over the ocean or by overland caravan and the coinage was stolen, you lost your investment.

However, by using letters of credit and settlement at a bank (bank of international settlement), you could have the bullion transferred within a vault.

However, now it is presumed by the banks that they own both the bullion and the credit, and the government backs that opinion with force. The pirates and road bandits have stationary positions and send out strong armed men to assure you make some "voluntary" contributions to maintenance for the health and pension plans for the Pirates and Road Bandits Union. (P&RBU)

The next model for money must bypass the P&RBU in some fashion and be as large of an evolution in exchange as the invention of credit.

Now that you see the nature of the problems caused by the Pirates and Road Bandits Union you might care to read what Belgium writer Anthony Migchels wrote on March 11, 2012:

Old Rothschild- and Rockefeller hands controlled the Libertarian-Communist dialectic

Dialectic = both sides of the philosophical discussion:
[link to realcurrencies.wordpress.com]

Here is the connection map Anthony Migchel created:
[link to realcurrencies.files.wordpress.com]

The Charles Eisenstein book SACRED ECONOMICS contains some references to the Mondragon Cooperative.

So I did a quick search for Mondragon cooperative + Spanish riots + economy:
[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The point is that if the people's credit is the basis of a monetary system then that system must be owned by the people.

This is the socialism that neither the communists nor the libertarian organizations will speak or write about.

The Caja Laboral Popular bank is subordinated by legal structure to the overall cooperative operations board. Bank profits are recycled within the system and rebates to the people take the form of a secondary income. (the binary economics principle)

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

There cannot be an "economic collapse" when the bookkeeping is correct.

“There is no reason products and services could not be swapped directly by consumers and producers through a system of direct exchange – essentially a massive barter economy. All it requires is some commonly used unit of account and adequate computing power to make sure all transactions could be settled immediately. People would pay each other electronically, without the payment being routed through anything that we would currently recognize as a bank. Central banks in their present form would no longer exist – nor would money.”

– Mervyn King – Governor of the Bank of England

Read closely; "All it requires is some commonly used unit of account..."

That commonly used unit of account is generally referred to as "money."

The trick is to make money reliable and of low extractive cost.

The rest of that writing "People would pay each other <SNIP> ... without the payment being routed through anything that we would currently recognize as a bank."

I snipped a single word "electronically" just to keep your options open. What Mervyn King is writing about is decentralized settlement of accounts. The real clue here is what Greco has been writing about: IE DECENTRALIZED MUTUAL CREDIT IS A MORE EFFICIENT AND ROBUST SYSTEM OF EXCHANGE THAN THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF HIERARCHIC CLEARING

The post above is a partial rebuttal to the Charles Eisenstein writing and the writing of the Australian poster to the barter is the future thread:

Thread: Barter is the Future! (Page 2)

Anonymous Coward User ID: 10044371 from Australia and Charles Eisenstein are both writing about gift economies when a close reading of history of exchange shows that gift economies were replaced by smoother working money systems.

Investigate "cargo cult" or "cargo exchange" for some related discussion. Ignore hits that come up about the south Pacific islanders who built effigies of airplanes - that stuff is not related and while interesting do not offer significant input to the discussion.

Search for "cargo system" rather than cargo cult.

Here is a valid hit:
[link to www.jstor.org]

Here is a search string that will kick out some useful answers:

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The core concept you need to wrap your mind around is about the limitations of human memory. Anthropologists know that the size of human tribes seldom exceeded 250 members. At that point or sooner the tribe would spontaneously bifurcate. They believe it has to do with the limitations of ability to retain memory of faces and relationships.

This is related to gifting societies... people never truly "gift" anything. They are always expecting some reciprocity in one form or another.

Now do your search for Narayana Kocherlakota who wrote a piece where he shows that "Money is social memory" and the point is that a trustworthy form of money was a better form of social memory than the human mind could supply.

Important concept.

Monetary ontology: A zipped Protégé project of an ontology for currency creation and use. Also contains an "owl". The objective is an active description of all forms of "money" from barter to clearing systems, from precious metal coinage to debt-based fiat. It is oriented towards designers of payment systems and community currency systems. First begun 2008/05/04 and last updated 2008/05/12. v0.0 Contributed by Martin "Hasan" Bramwell

Here is a preview GIF image: [link to protegewiki.stanford.edu]


To download the file go to this page: [link to protegewiki.stanford.edu] and scroll down until you see the words Monetary Ontology

Pursuant to what I was saying earlier about multiple parallel currencies; have a look at this:

Virtual cash exchange becomes bank
[link to www.bbc.co.uk]

---

Now imagine 20 or 30 of them competing with each other and in widespread use by all retailers.

It will only be a matter of time before "real" banks move into this with their *own*, competing currencies. They won't have a choice.

Hugh

[link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

Metanoia Films has released 6 films that you can purchase or watch online free.

[link to metanoia-films.org]

Power principle is a series of three videos adding up to 266 minutes (4 hours, 26 minutes)
[link to metanoia-films.org]
# I is Empire - 96 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]
# II is Propaganda - 99 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]
# III is Apocalypse 71 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]

Rise like lions: [link to metanoia-films.org] (97 minutes)
Lifting the Veil: [link to metanoia-films.org] (113.5 minutes)
Psywar: [link to metanoia-films.org] (98.5 minutes)
Human Resources: [link to metanoia-films.org] (2 hours)
Police State Canada: [link to metanoia-films.org] ("Sorry, Video does not exist")(??)

In mp4 format these are large downloads that run up to 800 megabytes or larger.
FLV format is smaller, but the quality is poorer and depends on the sample rate chosen.

In the United States there are any number of token manufacturers and coinage mints.

[the list below is not comprehensive]

Besides Sunshine Mint ( [link to www.sunshinemint.com)] made famous by the Bernard von NotHaus affair there are:

Hoffman Mint of Florida: [link to www.hoffmanmint.com]

Osborne Mint (Cincinnati): [link to www.osbornecoin.com] (aluminum tokens are featured)

Nevada Mint (Las Vegas): [link to www.tokens.com]

A page full of links to coinage and token printers: [link to www.exonumia.com]

Duck search: [link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

Money exists as a symbol system for rationalizing the exchange of real things by means of proxy instruments and by means of contracts. It is a special extension of language that is primarily a communication. Within a communication theory of money many things can serve in the token and contract function. What is of primary importance in a communication theory of money is that the communications are made in truth.

To maintain truth in monetary communications the banker must have a clearly defined agency relationship to the people whereas:

* Reputation records (the credibility index) is kept on people (what? politicians also?),
* Where the reputation is poor, a performance bond must be posted as a partial collateralization of the contracts,
* Precious metals are given formal recognition as savings, and,
* These "savings" are presented and held in escrow as the performance bonds and,
* The Mandrake Mechanism is formalized and taught as a valid way to create money where,
* The people own the money system is a socialistic fashion with an open books policy and rebates after costs are made to the people and,
* The "value" of the money is dominated in human time and the number of units of time is stabilized in proportion to population demographics - quantity is important and,
* Everybody pays for using the system, but the hypothecation of the promissory notes carries zero interest - only a monthly service charge that is minimal and,
* All users rebate a sales tax like demurrage fee on circulating media plus a monthly fee on accounts of record.

UPDATE

They have produced another video in what is a series of educational videos.
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

A conference is planned for January 26 of 2012:
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Several books and pamphlets are available and a new book is to be soon released:
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

The new book proposed is titled "MODERNIZING MONEY"
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

More from the blog: [link to www.positivemoney.org]

Dominic Frisby talks to Ben Dyson (audio)
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Where does money come from? – New extended edition
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

New Documentary: Economic Science and the Debt Crisis - 51 minute video - partially Swedish with English subtitles - mostly in English
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Positive Money on Radio Free Brighton (15 minute audio)
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Alternate Money Schemes from the UK

Found in two places: [link to getmindsmart.com]
and : [link to www.activistpost.com]

The author is Julie Beal of the UK. She owns the Get Mind Smart site linked first.

No comment yet; there is a lot of material and a lot of links in that piece.

Larken Rose, the Counterfeiter

Larken Rose; Not a Conspiracy
[link to www.youtube.com] (4.5 minutes)

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. (Mark Twain)

Larken Rose channel: [link to www.youtube.com]

Jet Graphics:

"A review of the basic issues of ownership, absolute and qualified, and private property versus estate.
[link to groups.yahoo.com]

The law recognizes absolute ownership, therefore it exists.
The courts admit that the American people are sovereign.

Since sovereignty and property are inseparable, therefore they must have domains upon which they can exercise natural liberty.

When investigating laws regarding land, be careful to not be side tracked into the labyrinth of qualified ownership of estate."

More detail to follow

Damn is there any creature more stupid than an "economist"? I fucking hate them and they deserve NO PAY WHATSOEVER.

Economists, do not WORK, they are parasites, like stock markets and the Federal Reserve Bank --ALL EXIST ON THE PEOPLE'S DIME.

The millionaire and G00gle shitbag corporate person BOTH AVOID THE TAX --FUCKIN DERP YOU PEOPLE DESERVE WHAT YOU GET

Man I keep waiting for this thread to take flight as I have put so many peanuts of truth in it ...but no, just more tard links to economists who have shitall for workable ideas and who know nothing of conspiracy.

IT AINT COMPLICATED. ARREST THE SCUMBAGS. CONSPIRACY IS THE WATER THE WORLDSHIP FLOATS ON!

Now they have the "trillion dollar coin", which as I have explained, is just them laughing at you, by admitting that all paper reserve notes (you have them in your wallet called 'dollars') and Treasury instruments are simply debt tender instruments and are not money! ONLY COINS, SPECIE, IS MONEY. That is why they can laugh, because they know this.

Sure it would be great to cut off all the banks and these questions like 'what is real money' and 'why can't the treasury print debt notes themselves, why do they need an offshore non American bank, the (non)Federal (no)Reserve (empty)Bank to do it?' are fun questions to ask.

But in the end, it will be said of Americans "Their fathers told them to obey the 16th Amendment and they paid their taxes even while they tried to arm themselves against the very government their taxes were empowering, and which government wanted them to die." That is the unavoidable tombstone, as we cancel our world debt, using the COTUS as an escape hatch on billions of debt, without having learned a god damned thing and inviting the whole world to exact revenge. All as planned, debauch, then reveal. Where is Timmy Geitner's summer home, is it on the BushCo plantation in South America? Running away with Greenspan and John Galt to their valley of smart people? Haha, I don't think so.

Lights out in 3... 2...

Ideas outside the approved memeplex matrix can get you killed.

In 1963 Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream!"
In 2012 Obama said: "I have a drone!" and a team of killers to hunt down social change artists.

Around October 31, 1517, Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses to the church door in Wittenburg, Germany. In those days, it was common practice to nail (or tack, more likely) public documents to the church door for all to see. Shortly after Luther nailed that document to the church doors, several printers took it, translated it into German (it was originally written in Latin for only the church officers to be able to read), printed and distributed a great number of copies. It was thus circulated around Germany, and sent to the pope.

"Government, The Most Dangerous Superstition"; Larken Rose: [link to www.larkenrose.com]

Altering the money memeplex can be dangerous to your health; equally as dangerous as altering a religion.

The priesthood (congress-critters and banksters) do not approve of any alteration or modification to the wealth conveyor they have constructed.

I have been in writing in various forums promoting of the concept of mutual credit where the banker is an agent to the people and the banking business is run as a not-for-profit with after administration costs are paid - an annual or semi-annual disbursement rebate be paid back to the people. ("social credit" is NOT equivalent to mutual credit)

This thread is about the trillion dollar platinum coin, but several posters are very near melding concepts:

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

Each one of the three pages of that thread has valuable insights posted that do indeed tie the concept of sovereignty lies in the people and the people need to own the money system.

Poster "Allodial" gets the ball rolling and poster "Shikamaru" provides valuable additions. Poster "Chex" provides some humor in post #14 when he shows how the bank of Mars buys the north American continent with electronic entries. On page 3 poster "Shikamaru" provides links to Blackstone on the "sovereign prerogatives" and to
A Treatise on the Law of the Prerogatives of the Crown: And the Relative Duties and Rights of the Subject (1820) by Joseph Chitty


All considered this is the best thread on the trillion dollar coin proposal that I have seen.

This page (which was linked by a different site) shows a precedent in history (1933):
[link to finance.yahoo.com]

I DO NOT agree with all that is written there by Rob Wile but the page is of good interest and closely related.

James Robertson, Creating New Money, Seigniorage

107 page pdf file: [link to www.jamesrobertson.com]

Chapters 2, 3, and 4 have the word seigniorage in the chapter titles.

Hummel on creditory money: [link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]

Hummel on seigniorage: [link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]

In a system of coinage based on circulating precious metal coins traded by weight and purity only the seigniorage is based within the metal and is owned by the bearer.

In a system of coinage where a numaria ( [link to www.abebooks.com] is embossed to one surface, the number represents an imaginary increment above and beyond the precious metal value. This numaria is claimed to be property of the Senior (thus seigniorage).

However, what I write about is a system of mutual credit based upon hypothecation of promissory notes (the Mandrake Mechanism by Griffin) and it is my contention that a system of mutual credit must be owned by the people and operated for the benefit of the people.

Look for how the Mondragon Cooperative subordinated the bank charter to the overall cooperative management board and thereafter paid rebates back to the people. This is the binary economics principle put to action by an institution.

A full understanding of a communication theory of money will include the principle of competition in media - such a principle of competition allows circulation of precious metal coins operating in a parallel system. Some writers have called for a unit of energy to also circulate. Kilowatt hours of electricity might be the base measurement. Other system already in limited usage use a human hour as the medium of exchange represented by a token and/or paper instrument.

In a mutual credit monetary system seigniorage must be vested in the people.