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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Anonymous Coward
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12/08/2012 07:09 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Sort of cross referencing for myself here:

Spire lawsuit (regarding mortgage fraud)

Thread: Banksters Targets of Spire Law Group, LLP's Racketeering and Money Laundering Lawsuit Seeking Return of $43 Trillion to the US Treasury
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 03:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The material quoted below was posted to the Canada issues silver coinage thread. (Just click on the link)

Frederick Raphael Burch wrote the book where this appeared - published in 1922. It is available as an image file that can be read online here: [link to babel.hathitrust.org]

and also here: [link to www.archive.org]

This is the preface to the book. The whole thing is 129 pages.

The Perversion of Money

THE ERRONEOUS conception of the proper
status and true function of money has led to
its perversion, the evil result of which is so
clearly evidenced by our present banking system.
In this volume I undertake to prove the following
propositions:

1st. Money is not a commodity. This being
true:

2nd. Money is no part of wealth. Hence:

3rd. Money can never become capital. Not
being capital:

4th. Money has no earning power. And it
follows:

5th. Interest, or profit, on money is unearned.

6th. Gold and silver, in common with lead and
zinc, are commodities.


7th. Money is something entirely different.

It has no more natural connection with gold and silver
than it has with lead and zinc.
We must not confuse
money with the commodity which may be chosen as its
tangible vehicle.

8th. Money is the medium of exchange and the
measure of value ; a convenient and exact method
of book-keeping
; and only as such does it properly
function.

9th. Money is brought into existence by law.

10th. A commodity cannot be created by law.
All that a law can do is to function as a law.

11th. No individual, nor body of individuals,
should be permitted to own or control a function of
law and charge others a tax for its use.

12th. The government is the true depositary
of the law and the proper executive of its functions.

13th. These powers are usurped by the bankers
and money-lenders, and the evil results of this usurpation
are colossal ; they will disrupt and destroy
civilization unless a remedy be applied.

14th. The remedy.

- Frederick Raphael Burch
 Quoting: Malden
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 03:45 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
2 things the human race will have to combine and achieve before we evolve.

if we don't, it will be like a stagnant parasite within us all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 876442


credits will do fine
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 04:21 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Ok, I was able to download the Frederick Raphael Burch book from the Hathi Trust link. Several options are available; I chose the PDF option - This gave a 145 page file sized at 38.25 megabytes. It is an image file.

At the moment I am unable to do an OCR job on the file. Not sure it is a worth while endeavor yet.

The fundamentals from the preface are mostly correct - however the government as it exists cannot be trusted.

And, a strong centralized government will never be an institution that can be trusted simply because of human nature. Whether a non-human (computerized?) intelligence can be trusted is quite another question. Only a decentralized model for both money and governance has any hope (IMO) of success. Like Iceland - you need to know where the bastards sleep at night if you hope to have any influence.

Buckminster Fuller said pirates rule the world and IMO he was correct.

More to follow on that thought...
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 07:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Pirates rule the earth; by Flemming Funch, 7 December 1994.

In his book "Operating Manual for Spaceship Earth", in the chapter "Origins of Specialization", Buckminster Fuller tells the story about what he calls "The Great Pirates". This is my greatly shortened version of it:

[link to www.worldtrans.org]

Go to the link to read the piece, my point is that credit as money replaced coinage partly as a result of pirates at sea and road bandits on the overland trade routes. If you as a businessman sent someone over the ocean or by overland caravan and the coinage was stolen, you lost your investment.

However, by using letters of credit and settlement at a bank (bank of international settlement), you could have the bullion transferred within a vault.

However, now it is presumed by the banks that they own both the bullion and the credit, and the government backs that opinion with force. The pirates and road bandits have stationary positions and send out strong armed men to assure you make some "voluntary" contributions to maintenance for the health and pension plans for the Pirates and Road Bandits Union. (P&RBU)

The next model for money must bypass the P&RBU in some fashion and be as large of an evolution in exchange as the invention of credit.
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 08:08 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Now that you see the nature of the problems caused by the Pirates and Road Bandits Union you might care to read what Belgium writer Anthony Migchels wrote on March 11, 2012:

Old Rothschild- and Rockefeller hands controlled the Libertarian-Communist dialectic

Dialectic = both sides of the philosophical discussion:
[link to realcurrencies.wordpress.com]

Here is the connection map Anthony Migchel created:
[link to realcurrencies.files.wordpress.com]
Anonymous Coward
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12/10/2012 08:48 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Charles Eisenstein book SACRED ECONOMICS contains some references to the Mondragon Cooperative.

So I did a quick search for Mondragon cooperative + Spanish riots + economy:
[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The point is that if the people's credit is the basis of a monetary system then that system must be owned by the people.

This is the socialism that neither the communists nor the libertarian organizations will speak or write about.

The Caja Laboral Popular bank is subordinated by legal structure to the overall cooperative operations board. Bank profits are recycled within the system and rebates to the people take the form of a secondary income. (the binary economics principle)

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

There cannot be an "economic collapse" when the bookkeeping is correct.
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 03:08 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
“There is no reason products and services could not be swapped directly by consumers and producers through a system of direct exchange – essentially a massive barter economy. All it requires is some commonly used unit of account and adequate computing power to make sure all transactions could be settled immediately. People would pay each other electronically, without the payment being routed through anything that we would currently recognize as a bank. Central banks in their present form would no longer exist – nor would money.”

– Mervyn King – Governor of the Bank of England


Read closely; "All it requires is some commonly used unit of account..."

That commonly used unit of account is generally referred to as "money."

The trick is to make money reliable and of low extractive cost.

The rest of that writing "People would pay each other <SNIP> ... without the payment being routed through anything that we would currently recognize as a bank."

I snipped a single word "electronically" just to keep your options open. What Mervyn King is writing about is decentralized settlement of accounts. The real clue here is what Greco has been writing about: IE DECENTRALIZED MUTUAL CREDIT IS A MORE EFFICIENT AND ROBUST SYSTEM OF EXCHANGE THAN THE PRESENT SYSTEM OF HIERARCHIC CLEARING


Muti-Lateral Barter replaces central banking (Thomas Greco)

Coming soon: a world without money and banks.

[link to beyondmoney.net]

Who in their right mind would be so bold as to predict the end of money and banking as we’ve known it (besides yours truly, that is)?

Well, how about the Governor of the Bank of England?

“There is no reason products and services could not be swapped directly by consumers and producers through a system of direct exchange – essentially a massive barter economy. All it requires is some commonly used unit of account and adequate computing power to make sure all transactions could be settled immediately. People would pay each other electronically, without the payment being routed through anything that we would currently recognize as a bank. Central banks in their present form would no longer exist – nor would money.”

– Mervyn King – Governor of the Bank of England

You see, even the insiders can see the writing on the wall.

Another observer who has been in the thick of cashless trading developments for decades is Bob Meyer, publisher and editor of Barter News. A while back, Bob wrote an article that gives some pertinent history of the “barter” industry and sketches his vision of how “Simple One-to-One Exchanges Will Give Way to Organized, Computerized, Multi-Lateral Barter.” I strongly recommend that people read it

[link to www.barternews.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3131543
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 03:15 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The post above is a partial rebuttal to the Charles Eisenstein writing and the writing of the Australian poster to the barter is the future thread:

Thread: Barter is the Future! (Page 2)

Anonymous Coward User ID: 10044371 from Australia and Charles Eisenstein are both writing about gift economies when a close reading of history of exchange shows that gift economies were replaced by smoother working money systems.

Investigate "cargo cult" or "cargo exchange" for some related discussion. Ignore hits that come up about the south Pacific islanders who built effigies of airplanes - that stuff is not related and while interesting do not offer significant input to the discussion.
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 03:23 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Search for "cargo system" rather than cargo cult.

Here is a valid hit:
[link to www.jstor.org]
Anonymous Coward
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12/12/2012 03:43 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Here is a search string that will kick out some useful answers:

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The core concept you need to wrap your mind around is about the limitations of human memory. Anthropologists know that the size of human tribes seldom exceeded 250 members. At that point or sooner the tribe would spontaneously bifurcate. They believe it has to do with the limitations of ability to retain memory of faces and relationships.

This is related to gifting societies... people never truly "gift" anything. They are always expecting some reciprocity in one form or another.

Now do your search for Narayana Kocherlakota who wrote a piece where he shows that "Money is social memory" and the point is that a trustworthy form of money was a better form of social memory than the human mind could supply.

Important concept.
Anonymous Coward
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12/13/2012 07:15 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Monetary ontology: A zipped Protégé project of an ontology for currency creation and use. Also contains an "owl". The objective is an active description of all forms of "money" from barter to clearing systems, from precious metal coinage to debt-based fiat. It is oriented towards designers of payment systems and community currency systems. First begun 2008/05/04 and last updated 2008/05/12. v0.0 Contributed by Martin "Hasan" Bramwell

Here is a preview GIF image: [link to protegewiki.stanford.edu]


To download the file go to this page: [link to protegewiki.stanford.edu] and scroll down until you see the words Monetary Ontology
Hugh
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12/14/2012 01:57 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Pursuant to what I was saying earlier about multiple parallel currencies; have a look at this:

Virtual cash exchange becomes bank
[link to www.bbc.co.uk]

---

Now imagine 20 or 30 of them competing with each other and in widespread use by all retailers.

It will only be a matter of time before "real" banks move into this with their *own*, competing currencies. They won't have a choice.

Hugh

[link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]
Metanoia
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12/20/2012 01:45 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Metanoia Films has released 6 films that you can purchase or watch online free.

[link to metanoia-films.org]

Power principle is a series of three videos adding up to 266 minutes (4 hours, 26 minutes)
[link to metanoia-films.org]
# I is Empire - 96 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]
# II is Propaganda - 99 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]
# III is Apocalypse 71 minutes [link to www.youtube.com]

Rise like lions: [link to metanoia-films.org] (97 minutes)
Lifting the Veil: [link to metanoia-films.org] (113.5 minutes)
Psywar: [link to metanoia-films.org] (98.5 minutes)
Human Resources: [link to metanoia-films.org] (2 hours)
Police State Canada: [link to metanoia-films.org] ("Sorry, Video does not exist")(??)

In mp4 format these are large downloads that run up to 800 megabytes or larger.
FLV format is smaller, but the quality is poorer and depends on the sample rate chosen.
Anonymous Coward
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12/20/2012 02:00 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
In the United States there are any number of token manufacturers and coinage mints.

[the list below is not comprehensive]

Besides Sunshine Mint ( [link to www.sunshinemint.com)] made famous by the Bernard von NotHaus affair there are:

Hoffman Mint of Florida: [link to www.hoffmanmint.com]

Osborne Mint (Cincinnati): [link to www.osbornecoin.com] (aluminum tokens are featured)

Nevada Mint (Las Vegas): [link to www.tokens.com]

A page full of links to coinage and token printers: [link to www.exonumia.com]

Duck search: [link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

Money exists as a symbol system for rationalizing the exchange of real things by means of proxy instruments and by means of contracts. It is a special extension of language that is primarily a communication. Within a communication theory of money many things can serve in the token and contract function. What is of primary importance in a communication theory of money is that the communications are made in truth.

To maintain truth in monetary communications the banker must have a clearly defined agency relationship to the people whereas:

* Reputation records (the credibility index) is kept on people (what? politicians also?),
* Where the reputation is poor, a performance bond must be posted as a partial collateralization of the contracts,
* Precious metals are given formal recognition as savings, and,
* These "savings" are presented and held in escrow as the performance bonds and,
* The Mandrake Mechanism is formalized and taught as a valid way to create money where,
* The people own the money system is a socialistic fashion with an open books policy and rebates after costs are made to the people and,
* The "value" of the money is dominated in human time and the number of units of time is stabilized in proportion to population demographics - quantity is important and,
* Everybody pays for using the system, but the hypothecation of the promissory notes carries zero interest - only a monthly service charge that is minimal and,
* All users rebate a sales tax like demurrage fee on circulating media plus a monthly fee on accounts of record.
Positive Money UK
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12/28/2012 11:05 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
UPDATE

They have produced another video in what is a series of educational videos.
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

A conference is planned for January 26 of 2012:
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Several books and pamphlets are available and a new book is to be soon released:
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

The new book proposed is titled "MODERNIZING MONEY"
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

More from the blog: [link to www.positivemoney.org]

Dominic Frisby talks to Ben Dyson (audio)
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Where does money come from? – New extended edition
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

New Documentary: Economic Science and the Debt Crisis - 51 minute video - partially Swedish with English subtitles - mostly in English
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

Positive Money on Radio Free Brighton (15 minute audio)
[link to www.positivemoney.org]
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 11:12 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Alternate Money Schemes from the UK

Found in two places: [link to getmindsmart.com]
and : [link to www.activistpost.com]

The author is Julie Beal of the UK. She owns the Get Mind Smart site linked first.

No comment yet; there is a lot of material and a lot of links in that piece.
Anonymous Coward
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12/28/2012 11:15 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Larken Rose, the Counterfeiter

Larken Rose; Not a Conspiracy
[link to www.youtube.com] (4.5 minutes)

Suppose you were an idiot, and suppose you were a member of Congress; but I repeat myself. (Mark Twain)

Larken Rose channel: [link to www.youtube.com]
Jet Graphics
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12/28/2012 11:19 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Jet Graphics:

"A review of the basic issues of ownership, absolute and qualified, and private property versus estate.
[link to groups.yahoo.com]

The law recognizes absolute ownership, therefore it exists.
The courts admit that the American people are sovereign.

Since sovereignty and property are inseparable, therefore they must have domains upon which they can exercise natural liberty.

When investigating laws regarding land, be careful to not be side tracked into the labyrinth of qualified ownership of estate."


More detail to follow
gembouncer
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01/10/2013 03:44 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Damn is there any creature more stupid than an "economist"? I fucking hate them and they deserve NO PAY WHATSOEVER.

Economists, do not WORK, they are parasites, like stock markets and the Federal Reserve Bank --ALL EXIST ON THE PEOPLE'S DIME.

The millionaire and G00gle shitbag corporate person BOTH AVOID THE TAX --FUCKIN DERP YOU PEOPLE DESERVE WHAT YOU GET

Man I keep waiting for this thread to take flight as I have put so many peanuts of truth in it ...but no, just more tard links to economists who have shitall for workable ideas and who know nothing of conspiracy.

IT AINT COMPLICATED. ARREST THE SCUMBAGS. CONSPIRACY IS THE WATER THE WORLDSHIP FLOATS ON!

Now they have the "trillion dollar coin", which as I have explained, is just them laughing at you, by admitting that all paper reserve notes (you have them in your wallet called 'dollars') and Treasury instruments are simply debt tender instruments and are not money! ONLY COINS, SPECIE, IS MONEY. That is why they can laugh, because they know this.

Sure it would be great to cut off all the banks and these questions like 'what is real money' and 'why can't the treasury print debt notes themselves, why do they need an offshore non American bank, the (non)Federal (no)Reserve (empty)Bank to do it?' are fun questions to ask.

But in the end, it will be said of Americans "Their fathers told them to obey the 16th Amendment and they paid their taxes even while they tried to arm themselves against the very government their taxes were empowering, and which government wanted them to die." That is the unavoidable tombstone, as we cancel our world debt, using the COTUS as an escape hatch on billions of debt, without having learned a god damned thing and inviting the whole world to exact revenge. All as planned, debauch, then reveal. Where is Timmy Geitner's summer home, is it on the BushCo plantation in South America? Running away with Greenspan and John Galt to their valley of smart people? Haha, I don't think so.

Lights out in 3... 2...
Martin Luther
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02/05/2013 01:30 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Ideas outside the approved memeplex matrix can get you killed.

In 1963 Martin Luther King said: "I have a dream!"
In 2012 Obama said: "I have a drone!" and a team of killers to hunt down social change artists.

Around October 31, 1517, Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-five Theses to the church door in Wittenburg, Germany. In those days, it was common practice to nail (or tack, more likely) public documents to the church door for all to see. Shortly after Luther nailed that document to the church doors, several printers took it, translated it into German (it was originally written in Latin for only the church officers to be able to read), printed and distributed a great number of copies. It was thus circulated around Germany, and sent to the pope.

"Government, The Most Dangerous Superstition"; Larken Rose: [link to www.larkenrose.com]

Altering the money memeplex can be dangerous to your health; equally as dangerous as altering a religion.

The priesthood (congress-critters and banksters) do not approve of any alteration or modification to the wealth conveyor they have constructed.
Trillion Dollar Platinum
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02/05/2013 01:34 AM
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I have been in writing in various forums promoting of the concept of mutual credit where the banker is an agent to the people and the banking business is run as a not-for-profit with after administration costs are paid - an annual or semi-annual disbursement rebate be paid back to the people. ("social credit" is NOT equivalent to mutual credit)

This thread is about the trillion dollar platinum coin, but several posters are very near melding concepts:

[link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]

Each one of the three pages of that thread has valuable insights posted that do indeed tie the concept of sovereignty lies in the people and the people need to own the money system.

Poster "Allodial" gets the ball rolling and poster "Shikamaru" provides valuable additions. Poster "Chex" provides some humor in post #14 when he shows how the bank of Mars buys the north American continent with electronic entries. On page 3 poster "Shikamaru" provides links to Blackstone on the "sovereign prerogatives" and to
A Treatise on the Law of the Prerogatives of the Crown: And the Relative Duties and Rights of the Subject (1820) by Joseph Chitty


All considered this is the best thread on the trillion dollar coin proposal that I have seen.

This page (which was linked by a different site) shows a precedent in history (1933):
[link to finance.yahoo.com]

I DO NOT agree with all that is written there by Rob Wile but the page is of good interest and closely related.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:36 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
James Robertson, Creating New Money, Seigniorage

107 page pdf file: [link to www.jamesrobertson.com]

Chapters 2, 3, and 4 have the word seigniorage in the chapter titles.

Hummel on creditory money: [link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]

Hummel on seigniorage: [link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]

In a system of coinage based on circulating precious metal coins traded by weight and purity only the seigniorage is based within the metal and is owned by the bearer.

In a system of coinage where a numaria ( [link to www.abebooks.com] is embossed to one surface, the number represents an imaginary increment above and beyond the precious metal value. This numaria is claimed to be property of the Senior (thus seigniorage).

However, what I write about is a system of mutual credit based upon hypothecation of promissory notes (the Mandrake Mechanism by Griffin) and it is my contention that a system of mutual credit must be owned by the people and operated for the benefit of the people.

Look for how the Mondragon Cooperative subordinated the bank charter to the overall cooperative management board and thereafter paid rebates back to the people. This is the binary economics principle put to action by an institution.

A full understanding of a communication theory of money will include the principle of competition in media - such a principle of competition allows circulation of precious metal coins operating in a parallel system. Some writers have called for a unit of energy to also circulate. Kilowatt hours of electricity might be the base measurement. Other system already in limited usage use a human hour as the medium of exchange represented by a token and/or paper instrument.

In a mutual credit monetary system seigniorage must be vested in the people.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:38 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Money is a Communication; Accurate and True Communications will Never be Free

One of the messages Aaron Swartz was conveying was that information communication should be free.

However, insurance of accuracy and truth in communications will always involve the "trusted intermediary" (search terms) role.

The correct way to use specie coinage is as a recognized "savings" and as a performance bond.

"Put your money where your mouth is" converts to "Where is your skin in the game? or to "Who is holding your performance bond?"

The trusted intermediary is the escrow agent and responsible party who assures specific performance of contract.

The role of trusted intermediary will never be freely provided, however the demurrage principle that poses an extractive cost to all of the monetary communications can provide for the overhead cost of the trusted intermediary role.

Using reputation recording together with performance bonding creates a truth in communications result.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:43 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Aaron Swartz is dead.

The telephone utility closet associated with MIT where Swartz downloaded hundreds of documents:

[link to cryptome.org]

One list of documents he "liberated" (euphemism for stole):

[link to cryptome.org]

Another list of documents:

[link to cryptome.org]

WARNING! IF YOU CHOOSE TO DOWNLOAD AND DISSEMINATE THESE DOCUMENTS, YOU COULD BE "TRAFFICKING" IN STOLEN PROPERTY

On the other hand, you might be a private criminal investigator attempting to expose criminal activity inside "government" and inside "institutions" where these activities are designed to further enslave whole populations of peoples.


We are missing an important personality.

Only aged 26; [link to techcrunch.com]

Whether he committed suicide or was "suicided" is unimportant to the larger picture.

[link to www.youtube.com]

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:44 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Government is a Superstition, Money is a Religion

Austrian economics isn't the solution, it is a major portion of the problem.

One proposition of economics - that real things are always limited in quantity and availability is correct, but an associated conclusion that money should therefore be always in "shortage" is incorrect. This secondary conclusion is a natural derivative of using specie coinage as the medium of exchange.

In a communication theory of money using demurrage to pay for paid professional administration, there is no impetus for creating "shortage" in the money communications.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:47 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Pirates and Road Bandits Union revisit

Subject line refers to the Polleit video where at about eight minutes in he begins discussion of roving bandits and stationary bandits and shows how the stationary bandits become governments and how in the next steps the entire evolution has a strong bias toward ever increasing corruption.

First credit is due to Marco Saba (Italy):
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

Marco linked to:
[link to leconomistamascherato.blogspot.it]

Friday, January 4, 2012

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

An interview done this week by GoldMoney's Andy Duncan with the German economics professor Thorsten Polleit, in which the professor explains why fiat currency systems lead to "collective corruption," delighted your secretary/treasurer because it reminded him of something a high school graduate said at GATA's Washington conference in 2008 ( [link to www.gata.org]

"The problem with central banking has been mainly the old problem of power -- it corrupts.

"Central bankers are supposed to be more capable of restraint than ordinary politicians, and maybe some are, but they are not always or even often capable of the necessary restraint. One market intervention encourages another and another and increases the political pressure to keep intervening to benefit special interests rather than the general interest -- to benefit especially the financial interests, the banking and investment banking industries. These interventions, subsidies to special interests, increasingly are needed to prevent the previous imbalances from imploding.

"And so we have come to an era of daily market interventions by central banks -- so much so that the main purpose of central banking now is to prevent ordinary markets from happening at all.

"Central banking controls the value of all labor, services, and real goods, and yet it is conducted almost entirely in secret -- because, in choosing winners and losers in the economy, advancing infinite amounts of money to some participants in the markets but not to others, administering the ultimate patronage, central banking cannot survive scrutiny.

"Yet the secrecy of central banking now is taken for granted even in nominally democratic countries."

That is, money creation is power, infinite money creation is absolute power, and as Lord Acton said so famously, "Absolute power corrupts absolutely."
Professor Polleit backs it all up with some Austrian School economics in 27 compelling minutes at GoldMoney's Internet site here:

[link to www.goldmoney.com]

CHRIS POWELL, Secretary/Treasurer

Gold Anti-Trust Action Committee Inc.


Professor Polleit explains why fiat currency systems produce 'collective corruption'

Twenty minute vimeo presentation: [link to vimeo.com] (90 megabyte mp4 file)

Also available as a 27 minute mp3 file:
[link to www.goldmoney.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:52 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The Imaginary Increment; A Principle?

The imaginary increment; a principle?
I admit that I do not fully understand this principle, but stand by my personal conclusion that a principle exists.

The repetition in the last paragraph is deliberate; hoping slight restatements can convey the concept.

I believe it is a corollary phenomena to Gresham's law. Some sort of natural human behavior.

First I noticed that coinage always acquired a name. That this name personified the coinage which in turn took on an imaginary value beyond the commodity element used to create the coin.

The full bodied commodity coin will generally be "saved" while the warehouse receipt will circulate. This does not exclude direct barter, but this direct barter will only be a fraction the velocity of any currency format that has an "imaginary increment."

I suggest repeated readings of Gresham's Law by Robert Mundell, The Mandrake Mechanism by Griffin, and The Induction of Value to Money by Auriti.

Some sort of goofy law of human nature dictates that people actually gravitate toward scammy money. Riegel recognized this in his writing also but never explained it any better than I have. The very title of the book by Merrill Jenkins: MONEY, THE GREATEST HOAX ON EARTH is acknowledging the principle.

Basic principle: Paper money cannot "store value;" paper money can only serve in either a title capacity or a contract capacity instructing the bearer how, when, and where the value may be retrieved.


A pure metallic coin exchanged in barter may be a 100% value commodity, but it will only exchange at a low velocity.

An actual "money" coin has an imaginary PRICE added to the commodity value - and if this imaginary added PRICE is in any way dubious - then the velocity of exchange increases.


A money coin with an added "imaginary increment" of PRICE will exchange, while the commodity coin will stay home in the vault and serve in no exchange.

Money of 100% value stays home while money of uncertain value (over-priced) goes out and trades until there is a total loss of confidence that it has any value at all.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 01:54 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
An 80 year old woman can be stripped searched by the TSA but a Muslim woman in a burka is only subject to having her neck and head searched.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
You can get arrested for expired tags on your car but not for being in the country illegally.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if...
Your government believes that the best way to eradicate trillions of dollars of debt is to spend trillions more of our money.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
A seven year old boy can be thrown out of school for calling his teacher "cute" but hosting a sexual exploration or diversity class in grade school is perfectly acceptable.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if.....
The Supreme Court of the United States can rule that lower courts cannot display the 10 Commandments in their courtroom, while sitting in front of a display of the 10 Commandments.

You know you live in Country run by idiots if....
Working class Americans pay for their own health care (and the health care of everyone else) while unmarried women are free to have child after child on the "State's" dime while never being held responsible for their own choices.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Hard work and success are rewarded with higher taxes and more government intrusion.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
The government's plan for getting people back to work is to provide 99 weeks of unemployment checks (to not work).

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Being self-sufficient is considered a threat to the government.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Politicians think that stripping away the amendments to the constitution is really protecting the rights of the people.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
The rights of the Government come before the rights of the individual.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Parents believe the State is responsible for providing for their children.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
You can write a post like this just by reading the news headlines.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
You pay your mortgage faithfully, denying yourself the newest big screen TV while your neighbor defaults on his mortgage (while buying iPhones, TV's and new cars) and the government forgives his debt and reduces his mortgage (with your tax dollars).

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Your government can add anything they want to your kid's water (fluoride, chlorine, etc.) but you are not allowed to give them raw milk.

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
Being stripped of the ability to defend yourself makes you "safe".

You know you live in a Country run by idiots if....
You have to have your parents signature to go on a school field trip but not to get an abortion.
Anonymous Coward
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02/05/2013 02:01 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Tungsten Alloy Coinage

Pure silver and pure gold are soft metals that significantly wear from handling.

That fact is why US coinage was 90% silver, 10% copper. The Sterling silver coinage of the early English empire was based on the Troy pound; one Troy ounce of copper plus eleven Troy ounces of silver produced a 92.5 % coin. They took a better stamp, had a nice ring when dropped, and didn't wear as fast as pure silver.

Likewise, the gold coinage of South Africa, the Krugerrand has ten percent copper added for the same reasons.

One hundred years ago, tungsten metallurgy was unknown, but today there are processes for producing all types of tungsten alloys.

So, why not let the Chinese produce the labor symbols? Use some good hard stuff that has just enough added alloy it doesn't easily chip or shatter if dropped.

[link to www.tungsten-alloy.com]

Want it in a traditional gold?
[link to www.tungsten-alloy.com]

Colorized? [link to www.americancolorizedcoins.com]
[link to www.pandausa.com]
[link to merrickmint.stores.yahoo.net]

What you are dealing with is more religion than science; that is why I posted to imagine yourself to be Martin Luther nailing his writings on the door of the Catholic church. When you have your prototypes created and a line of BS to match; nail your sample and writing on the door of the nearest main office of the federal reserve.

Money is a communication carried by means of symbols and contracts that people accept (social memory - find the writings of Narayana Kocherlakota).

Personalize your money tokens and become a rock star preacher.

Learn the most advanced sales tactics including NLP and subliminals...

Write a new song - keep it simple stupid - for the masses; be certain it is as easy to remember as a child's song...

There is a ready market out there for a new monetary system just as there was a ready market for Martin Luther's message. (page 47 of this thread)

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