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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 12:09 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
From this Celente video: [link to www.youtube.com]

Down in the comments QUOTE:

Catherine White 5 days ago

The USA wonders why it's reputation is in the toilet when they arrest five year olds over five dollars, and allow the bankers to get away with robbing the American people blind.
********************************

Catherine White may or may not clearly comprehend that the theft began under Roosevelt - first the gold was confiscated, then the nation's credit was centralized and given to the bankers. That was implementation of the fifth plank of the communist manifesto and the beginning of the theft of all of the property of the nation.

Both private property and public property have been hypothecated to meet the demands of interest bearing credit entries as the basis for a monetary system.
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 12:15 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Government enslaves: Who are they to say we cannot exist without their rule? We are meant to be free, free from the archonic matrix that has been artificially created by these rulers.
 Quoting: Organic Light


I must confess to having zero knowledge or comprehension of what "Archons" are. Richard Cook is placing entries on his blog about "Aeons" as in "Return of the Aeons."

Are Aeons and Archons related?

It is my stated opinion that enslavement of the people is taking place through propaganda and mechanisms of the monetary system. And written law is an enabling tool.
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 12:16 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Richard Cook blog: [link to www.richardccook.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/12/2013 12:28 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
What would the difference be OP there will still be those with nothing to trade?!!!!

If you didn't have anything of value you would still starve! HAVE FUN WITH THAT!!!!!
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:27 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Best explanation I have ever found

We might think of dollars as being “certificates of performance.” The better I serve my fellow man, and the higher the value he places on that service, the more certificates of performance he gives me. The more certificates I earn, the greater my claim on the goods my fellow man produces. That’s the morality of the market. In order for one to have a claim on what his fellow man produces, he must first serve him. Contrast that moral standard to Congress’ standing offer, “Vote for me and I’ll take what your fellow man produces and give it to you.” — Walter Williams
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33661162


From page one of this thread: Thread: Can anyone tell me what money really is?

That's a decent definition of money IMO. I like Walter Williams but haven't heard much from him lately.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:48 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The ability of the present system to accept the promise to create and deliver value in the future as a deposit and to render that deposit into a credit entry is a good thing.

This is "THE MANDRAKE MECHANISM" as explained by Griffin.

At first glance the average reader believes this is a massive fraud. I do not.

The fraud however is based within the bookkeeping process. You see, the credit that is created is actually the property of the people and to balance the books there must be an off-set account to the credit of the people. Comprehend this and you see the basic reasoning behind the movement often referred to as "redemption of the strawman."
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


Found previously in this thread, but just now re-created on page two here: Thread: Can anyone tell me what money really is? (Page 2)
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 08:56 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Search string for today:

financial stability forum

or:

financial stability board

These are the people who tell the bankers what to do and they work for the benefit of the hidden elites.
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 09:02 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
If you bookmark and check this forum from time to time:

[link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

You will learn over time what the intellectuals are discussing. The forum moderator is Arno Mong Daastoel who is Norwegian but also spends time in Germany.

I was a recognized member of that forum with full un-moderated posting privileges until I posted some material they couldn't handle. (~5 years ago)
Anonymous Coward
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02/13/2013 10:12 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
West Coast Radio (probably Vancouver British Columbia Canada) is to have G Edward Griffin on as a guest today February 13.

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

The archive should be available in another day or two; questions for Griffin can be submitted to this thread:

Thread: I'm INTERVIEWING author of 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' G. EDWARD GRIFFIN this Friday. If you have questions, I will ask them (Page 2)
Anonymous Coward
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02/14/2013 11:08 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The True Story of the Time the Government Printed a $100,000 Bill by Rob Wile

Sixteen images with little actual text from Mr. Wile, so go to this link to gain the story - the story is told mostly with the images and interpretations from Wile.

[link to finance.yahoo.com]

Rob Wile projected the concept that issuing high value notes or coins is a good method for stabilization of a monetary system.

Wrong answer; the correct answer lies in seizure of the banking system along with all assets of the banking system followed by a write-off of all debt and all credit - a total liquidation with return of the assets to the people.

THEN reinvent the money system.

[link to www.reinventingmoney.com]

Left to their own devices with continuation of the intrigue and deception the congress-critters, banksters and apparatchiks will apply various patches and repairs along with some write-down of debt; net result is the new new deal is the same old screw-you - I-got-mine - old deal. And the new lies will resemble the old lies - just coming from a new set of faces.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 05:51 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Search string for today:

Doctrine of Odious Debts

Fraudulent debt is more applicable in my opinion and the beneficiaries of such debt should lose all they gained, but the apparent presumption in the writings seems to be allow the gains and simply stop the process with a write off. (Jubilee)

[link to alcuinbramerton.blogspot.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 06:07 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Applying the Odious Debts Doctrine while Preserving Legitimate Lending

Seema Jayachandran
Michael Kremer
Jonathan Shafter1
June 2006

[link to iis-db.stanford.edu] (26 pages)
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 06:24 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[link to www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com]

Michael Hudson noted in 2004:

Mesopotamian economic thought c. 2000 BC rested on a more realistic mathematical foundation than does today’s orthodoxy. At least the Babylonians appear to have recognized that over time the debt overhead became more and more intrusive as it tended to exceed the ability to pay, culminating in a concentration of property ownership in the hands of creditors.

***

Babylonians recognized that while debts grew exponentially, the rest of the economy (what today is called the “real” economy) grows less rapidly. Today’s economists have not come to terms with this problem with such clarity. Instead of a conceptual view that calls for a strong ruler or state to maintain equity and to restore economic balance when it is disturbed, today’s general equilibrium models reflect the play of supply and demand in debt-free economies that do not tend to polarize or to generate other structural problems.

Michael Hudson, in reference to Iceland Global Research, April 05, 2009:
[link to www.globalresearch.ca]
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 06:27 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Murray Rothbard on repudiating the national debt with reference to odious debt - written 1992 (Rothbard passed away 1995)

[link to mises.org]
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 06:29 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
My opinion: Fraudulent debt is more applicable and the beneficiaries of such debt should lose all they gained, but the apparent presumption in the writings seems to be allow the gains and simply stop the process with a write off. (Jubilee)

We still need full time professional administration to run a dependable monetary system, but a far superior method of paying such professional administration can be by the process of demurrage (everyone pays). This process is something supported by Bernard Lietaer of Germany who has just released the new book MONEY AND SUSTAINABILITY - THE MISSING LINK. This book was written with help from Christian Arnsperger, Sally Goerner, and Stefan Brunnhuber and is subtitled "A report from the Club of Rome - EU Chapter"
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 06:38 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
People who believe only gold and silver coin shall be money find the demurrage principle a severe blow to their belief system. However, using human time as the basis for redemption of a note enables a far better rationalization. (Time passes away while gold endures)

A far better method of using gold (and other precious metals) is as a recognized method of saving - thus divorcing the medium of exchange from the store of value - and where such precious metal coinage can be used as a partial backing to promissory notes - a performance bond role.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 07:00 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
More on the "Doctrine of Odious Debt"

[link to www.zerohedge.com]
Levi Philos
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02/15/2013 07:28 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Some fine discussion on the concept of volunteerism found on page 13 of the thread Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

My injection will be in the next post.


It is not my job to enforce a 'moral code'. Each person must enforce their own moral codes. That's why it's called self government.

As far as conflict resolution, there are many many ways, used though out history to resolve conflicts. Some involve violence, others do not.
 Quoting: Shingen


Okay...so in response to someone say, killing someone else because they wanted to steal from them, your response is:

"It is not my job to enforce a 'moral code'. "

So nothing. In this system of anarchy, no one steals, no one assaults, no one cheats, no one rapes, no one murders?

If these things do happen, how do you handle it? If your response to murder, rape and theft is to do nothing.....then what's to prevent a person from using murder, rape and theft to take your things? Or their neighbors?

It sounds like your system is a thief or serial killers wet dream. As no matter what they do, its not your responsibility to enforce your moral code.

That doesn't sound like a very stable society to me. Or one most folks would want to live in.

Violence in and of itself is not inherently immoral or unethical...it's the intent behind the violence which makes it immoral or unethical.
 Quoting: Shingen


So who decides that violence has a sufficiently moral 'intent'? Is that just a decision everyone makes for themselves? Or is there some objective standard?

Or do you decide for us?
 Quoting: J 34311994


Actually your system is a thief or serial killers wet dream. All they have to do is get elected to office and they can pretty much do whatever they want and they will be protected by the violence of the State. Which is how your system operates now.

Why should you force your moral code on me? Who gave you that authority? Supposedly, according to the 'founder's documents' that authority comes from the governed, yet there is no way to refuse consent in your system.

I think you see everything through a veil of compulsory compliance, but when key questions are asked about your system of government, you have no answer, and instead choose to attack mine.

I said it before, and I'll say it again. It is not my job to enforce a moral code, nor is it yours, because in order to enforce that moral code you must become immoral. Catch 22.

I don't claim to have all the answers to governing a society. If you claim to, then you are delusional at best and deluded at worst.

However I know for a fact that if I am not moral enough to govern myself, then you are not moral enough to govern me!

That is the bottom line.
 Quoting: Shingen
Levi Philos
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02/15/2013 07:52 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
We (all of the people) get involved in institutions where we may or may not have been directly involved in the original creation of said institution(s).

Anyway to the extent that said institution is working to our advantage or to our detriment we are likely to defend or attack such institution.

In the process, the defend and/or attack mode usually overshadows the fact that we can modify or replace such institutions and simply avoid destruction and bloodshed.

The money system is just such an institution.

A system of multiple money systems running in competition should be more stable and each person can volunteer to participate in one or more money systems.

A thought for the day.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 07:55 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
David M was on the track prior to this piece of writing; Notes of Debt are Not Income which was a composite piece that began with a post from the Handyman of Louisiana to which I pasted significant information from "The Informer" (N. Carolina).

The final document you find in PDF form was composed by "Fred"

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The underlying but hidden question revolves around the question of seigniorage. (many references prior in this thread)

If we are to use credit entries as money, then whom should the bookkeeping enter as the original creditor?
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 08:14 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
"How would you get food without trading for something? How would you trade for anything, without something?"

well, err, can't we all destroy concrete jungles, create fertile plains and harvest crops / grow fruit bearing trees? can't we all fish for food?

well, nice theoretically, but, realistically, humans are too selfish and spineless for such a revolution to happen.

we're all assholes.
Levi Philos
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02/15/2013 08:47 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Are you saying the people who run the Government are not okay? Do you really want me to post government sites that talk about Uncle Sam.

I'm saying that 'Uncle Sam' is a character. There's no guy named 'Uncle Sam' that gets your money when you pay your taxes.

And if you can't tell the difference between a character and a real person......you may need to seek some help.
 Quoting: J 34311994


My Uncle Samuel stole my credit card while I had my back turned. He is a trouble maker who gambles wildly and frequently loses. He starts fights all over the place and is a spendthrift.

Now, my Uncle is complaining because I haven't been keeping up the payments...
noel coward
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02/15/2013 08:54 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
stop working for yids
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 09:35 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Reflection upon written law...

Natural law trumps written law.

A group of people could get together and decide they were tired of having the sky colored blue. And send the air-force out to spray pink color in the sky until it turned pink.

It might succeed for a while, but then natural law would finally prevail.

No written law is that silly, however hidden presumptions might be embedded into written law that have the effect of error telescoping over time with permutations unforeseen by the originators of the law.

The permutations of using interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a monetary system are now becoming apparent. The initial error was made under Roosevelt when the fifth plank of the communist manifesto was implemented.

The credit of the people was claimed to be the property of the government and the government in turn assigned the credit to the banks via "license." The credit entries the bank creates via the double entry bookkeeping system need to have an offset entry to the people.

This is the hidden error that is causing the present collapse in progress.
Anonymous Coward
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02/15/2013 09:42 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Modern society is dependent upon division of labor and specialism in skill sets with a high degree of cooperation.

The money system is a complex memeplex - more religion than science while at the same time forming a cultural decision making machine.

Reform and reformation of the present system is discussed in some serious depth in this thread.

I do not claim to have all of the answers nor do I claim to be always correct.

Your thoughtful replies will be replied to in a respectful manner.
Levi Philos
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02/15/2013 10:15 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Gary North, Tea Party economist:

[link to teapartyeconomist.com]

Gary North is wrong as often as he is right, but I read his stuff on a regular basis.

He has written some serious condemnations of the Greenbackers such as Bill Still and Dr Ellen Brown.

I was unable to discover any greenbackers in support of the trillion dollar platinum coin idea. What's with that?

Go back at least two pages in this thread for links.
laptops as goldmines?
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02/16/2013 12:56 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Levi Philos, I think you linked to your goverrments thread here, from the "Computer Programming is Bullshit" thread.

So maybe we could discuss flaws in the system?

Why do people not want to invest in botcoins, whereas others see botcoin as something they can trust and use?

I understand that the really only way to keep your botcoins safe is to have a non-IP connected laptop onto which the botcoin record is kept.

But said laptops can be seized within 100 miles of the US border. Sooo, when will you give up and become a revolutionary? It is already end game.
Levi Philos
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02/16/2013 01:24 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
War isn't a game where you win by racking up a big score.

War is a game fought by losers.

The side that loses the least is pronounced "winner."

The losses are counted in destroyed buildings, destroyed industry and infrastructure, and ruined lives.

The only way to win the war game is to refuse to play.

Reinvent money and remove incentive to people who play war to increase debt.

Restructure society, reprogram the social exchange structure called "money."

Prevent war and usher in the voluntary society.
gembouncer
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02/16/2013 01:34 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Good ideas there.

But how do I keep my botcoin laptop from being grabbed?

There are many dumbshit economists making money, on complexity.

But the people seek simplicity. And yet, the COTUS says we should be secure in our papers. But how shall we modify the COTUS to a paperless society created by digital dorks?

As I have said, we need better COTUS amendments. I think a bakers dozen good ones, written by the people, at Superjury(tm), would be a good start.
Levi Philos
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02/18/2013 10:16 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Nice to see some young people recognizing the lie and taking up the cause.

Here we have Alec Scheer saying "not federal, no reserve"
[link to www.youtube.com]


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