Godlike Productions - Conspiracy Forum
Users Online Now: 2,839 (Who's On?)Visitors Today: 1,191,706
Pageviews Today: 1,816,006Threads Today: 536Posts Today: 11,267
04:55 PM


Rate this Thread

Absolute BS Crap Reasonable Nice Amazing
 

Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/19/2013 09:48 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Alexandra Pelosi video:

March 23, 2012; 7.7 minutes

[link to www.youtube.com]

"70 billion in the welfare budget; 700 billion in the warfare budget"

And the winner is... Singapore where neither welfare nor warfare is budgeted.

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33259104
Norway
02/19/2013 09:52 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Start a movement HF
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 33259104
Norway
02/19/2013 10:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Reflection upon written law...

Natural law trumps written law.

A group of people could get together and decide they were tired of having the sky colored blue. And send the air-force out to spray pink color in the sky until it turned pink.

It might succeed for a while, but then natural law would finally prevail.

No written law is that silly, however hidden presumptions might be embedded into written law that have the effect of error telescoping over time with permutations unforeseen by the originators of the law.

The permutations of using interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a monetary system are now becoming apparent. The initial error was made under Roosevelt when the fifth plank of the communist manifesto was implemented.

The credit of the people was claimed to be the property of the government and the government in turn assigned the credit to the banks via "license." The credit entries the bank creates via the double entry bookkeeping system need to have an offset entry to the people.

This is the hidden error that is causing the present collapse in progress.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


Hear hear! Very well explained!:-)

In regards to written law, I also believe that it is a flaw in default to assign laws for the future time and generations.
Faulty outdated laws become the foundations for our societies. There is this intense trust in past truths, beliefs and lies; that everything created based on this trust, may be built on faulty conditions and 'absolutes'.

In theory, no man made law can be made with the guarantee to improve the lives of future generations. Is simply arrogant to believe that on can controlled the course of the world by laws. It has indeed 'worked' for a long time, especially for the ones with power and knowledge in how to exploit other humans and their trust for the past.

The world is not absolute, therefore we as a speciece is as well not absolute and can not be controlled by absolute laws, unless manipulated of course.

Let's build a new free quantum router, so that everyone can communicate in real time for free with 'everyone'. People sharing love, instead of being leached upon by filthy rich slobs.

All the best for the future HF Love & Peace
Jo Ed
User ID: 590644
United States
02/21/2013 08:10 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The word republic does not necessarily mean a republican form of government.


Let’s see: Along with the present Pseudo-republican/”democratic” hybrid form of government proclaimed to the people by the many public “servant” and paid-political pundits and used perhaps to some degree when it suits them,

along with the Communist form of government applied to the us citizens (see the several websites stating how many agencies and predominant activities of the composite “government” are operating on the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto)

and the ever increasing totalitarian control and domination which is being exercised upon “we the actual people” with the dulocratic form of government being exercised by all these petty dictator “public servants” in every level of government in this country upon us, federal, state, county, and city levels—don’t believe me, go find out for yourself when any police officer stops you for anything, in dealings with any building inspector in this country if you even try to put up a greenhouse in your backyard—defining it as a “permanent structure”,

and the kleptocracy exercised by the bureaucrats in every level of government in this country to plunder the people of this country and the public treasury, all the while complaining they don’t have enough money and ever need ever more of our very lifeblood and that of our children for several generations down from us—

to give to the pentagon and us military contractors which spends over twice the next largest military budget of any other country on this planet (source—the Veterans For Peace website), and to give to foreign nations—of which Israel receives twice that over any other country in the world (source—a talk given by Noam Chomsky), and the many other ways of corporate and foreign nations welfare bleeding us dry.

I’m sure a relatively short search would turn up other forms of “governance” being imposed upon us alongside the publicly-proscribed version by our “elected representatives” and those other individuals they are in federal bankruptcy receivership to since 1933 and really direct us gov policy. What form of government would that be? What’s the proper term for puppet governance?


In Sacramento, California there are two governors’ offices: one is the constitutional office which is roped-off like a museum and never used as it is vacated and that form of governance is shelved since about 1879, and the other is the one Jerry Brown sits in again for the statutory/etc. form of "governance” being exercised upon us at this time.


And with the largest propaganda industry ever created and paid-by-us working against us and almost all public media now consolidated into the hands of 5 uber media corporations , and this as-deeply-as-possible entrenched parasite class of public “servants” willing to defend from us their source of sustenance which comes from us, and the black gov already operating martial law upon us and ready to do so much harder at any slight opportunity, how exactly are we supposed to “alter or abolish any government destructive to the people’s God given rights”? Ask the foxes to willingly leave the public henhouse and hogtrough? Vote them out of office? Protests, such as the co-opted Occupy movement?

You need to join to read this message which was posted here: [link to groups.yahoo.com] February 21, 2013
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
02/21/2013 11:22 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Larry Grathwohl; How to kill off 25 million people:
[link to www.youtube.com (secure)] (2 minutes, 20 sec)

[link to larry101st.blogspot.com]

[link to www.americanthinker.com]

Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
02/21/2013 12:22 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Interview: James Howard Kunstler & Chris Martenson: The Dangers of the Age of Delusion (47 minutes)

[link to www.youtube.com]

Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 10:12 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
More undeniable proof that the government is not your friend. We don't have a government anymore. What we have is a tiny corrupt mob with a cult following of control-freaks. These are the people holding humanity back.

Tptb must be removed from power if anyone is to ever see a better world. Holding a sacred plant from humanity and imprisoning innocent people for it will completely destroy a society. This is exactly what they have done by declaring war on cannabis, and by breaking apart families.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 35003687


Copied from page two of this thread:
Thread: U.S. Government owns the patent on cannabis cures (Page 2)

So, what would happen if the US gov had NO control over the money system and the money system was indeed held and operated by the people?
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 12:48 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The federal reserve banking system is a mutual credit system but with bad bookkeeping. It was implemented under Roosevelt by first removing lawful redemption by specie in step one and then in step two assuming ownership of the people's credit which in turn was assigned by license to the banks.

The so-called "loan" is a hypothecation of the promissory note in a process that renders the value of the promissory note into a credit entry. The credit entry is now spendable into circulation.

Because of the "eleventh marble" principle (only the principle is created - never the interest) (usury by another name) the so-called lenders end up owning everything.

A mutual credit monetary system must of necessity be owned by the people who are the ultimate creditors. Good bookkeeping would show a positive balance associated with every "person's" name or SS account where such an account would be assessable under proscribed conditions. I recommend a study of Binary Economics and the Mondragon Cooperative for examples of how such a system might be administered.

A mutual credit monetary system still needs professional administration, but rather than positive interest on the hypothecated promissory note, a better principle for paying salaries of professional administration is by a monthly service charge of minimal amount determinate by the nature of the original instrument PLUS a demurrage charge on circulating currency and positive accounts of record. The underling principle that philosophically supports the demurrage charge is that all people benefit by a smooth and trustworthy money system - therefore it is the obligation of all users to pay for salaries of professional administration.

More to follow on record keeping and performance bonds.
SteamrolledGobias

User ID: 15716609
United States
02/23/2013 12:57 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The federal reserve banking system is a mutual credit system but with bad bookkeeping. It was implemented under Roosevelt by first removing lawful redemption by specie in step one and then in step two assuming ownership of the people's credit which in turn was assigned by license to the banks.

The so-called "loan" is a hypothecation of the promissory note in a process that renders the value of the promissory note into a credit entry. The credit entry is now spendable into circulation.

Because of the "eleventh marble" principle (only the principle is created - never the interest) (usury by another name) the so-called lenders end up owning everything.

A mutual credit monetary system must of necessity be owned by the people who are the ultimate creditors. Good bookkeeping would show a positive balance associated with every "person's" name or SS account where such an account would be assessable under proscribed conditions. I recommend a study of Binary Economics and the Mondragon Cooperative for examples of how such a system might be administered.

A mutual credit monetary system still needs professional administration, but rather than positive interest on the hypothecated promissory note, a better principle for paying salaries of professional administration is by a monthly service charge of minimal amount determinate by the nature of the original instrument PLUS a demurrage charge on circulating currency and positive accounts of record. The underling principle that philosophically supports the demurrage charge is that all people benefit by a smooth and trustworthy money system - therefore it is the obligation of all users to pay for salaries of professional administration.

More to follow on record keeping and performance bonds.
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


this is good stuff.

lots of difficult vocab, but it makes sense and the eleventh marble principle is really everything that people need to know.

the Fed owns the money & all the debt. they own everything.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 01:09 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Steam Rolled Gobias observes: "lots of difficult vocab"

Reply; I don't write for morons who have zero clout and are unlikely to take any effective actions.

I know there is a small minority of educated people who peruse this forum who possess abilities in many fields of expertise.

These readers are capable of comprehension and may take effective action.

I write for them and presume they will comprehend and/or will check out my links and vocabulary.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 01:16 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
A search for Gobias was not very informative:
[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

More clues?
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 05:36 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thomas Schauf report on the mechanics of the fed:

[link to www.freedom-school.com]

The Wright Patman report to congress:

[link to www.freedom-school.com]

Thomas Schauf was a CPA who published two or more books on the subject. They were available at one time for $150 each book with buying both the recommendation. Schauf also testified in some court cases that got people's mortgages written off.

Here is more from Schauf:
[link to www.freedom-school.com]
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 05:56 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Poster "Steam Rolled Gobias" asks:

How do Federal Reserve Notes go from Printing Press into Circulation?

Thread: How Do Federal Reserve Notes Go from Printing Press into Circulation?

The Tomas Schauf and Wright Patman publications explain the process. The process is essentially simple but has been obfuscated by clouds of wordage. (verbicide)
SteamrolledGobias

User ID: 15716609
United States
02/23/2013 06:37 PM

Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Steam Rolled Gobias observes: "lots of difficult vocab"

Reply; I don't write for morons who have zero clout and are unlikely to take any effective actions.

I know there is a small minority of educated people who peruse this forum who possess abilities in many fields of expertise.

These readers are capable of comprehension and may take effective action.

I write for them and presume they will comprehend and/or will check out my links and vocabulary.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


yes thanks I appreciate the extension of knowledge. access to Google helps me out too

but I appreciate your responses in my other thread, it has helped a lot. I skimmed the materials and I haven't looked at your updated links but I will.

There is always something new to learn on here and it is why I frequent these boards over any other. Money controls everything else and I would like to see a major shift of control. I guess everybody is still waiting...
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/23/2013 08:28 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
"Money controls everything else and I would like to see a major shift of control. I guess everybody is still waiting...

That is the understatement of the day.

Money is THE cultural decision making machine

The controlling memeplex; if anyone is unhappy with their personal status they should be encouraged to gain knowledge and to participate.

It IS NOT going to do any good to get up petitions and send then to their congress-critter.

However, the system does depend on voluntary compliance and cooperation from at least 98% of the people.

When as few as 5 to 10% are resisting and kicking up a fuss, then alterations will become necessary.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/24/2013 07:32 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
An economic system is to the physical economy as a topographical map is to the physical geography. If you threw a topo map into a burning fireplace, would you look out the window expecting the rocks, roads, and marshlands to suddenly burst into flame?
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/24/2013 10:56 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[link to www.oppt-in-washington.org]

[link to www.peoplestrust1776.org]

[link to removingtheshackles.net]

Videos: [link to www.youtube.com] (62.5 minutes - just an audio with a picture)
and [link to www.youtube.com] (2.51 hours)

Heather Tucci-Jarraf was a public prosecutor so she is well versed in law and documentation.

Whether this is all true or not, it fits one thing I have been saying and that is the present economic system is failing because of fundamental error;

In a mutual credit monetary system the people must be vested with the seigniorage in the money symbols - any replacement system they (THE POWERS THAT BE/WERE/ARE) might design must repair that error or also fail.

The Mondragon Cooperative created a model that is worth emulation; the bank operation is subordinated to the overall cooperative management board and the people get a capital vestment in all cooperative operations including the bank. A secondary income is paid after a period of time that is like any good retirement plan. This Mondragon model IS NOT mentioned in Binary Economics or Third Way literature which is a VERY LARGE TIP-OFF that another game is afoot.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/24/2013 12:23 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Fractional Reserve Banking is a Tontine Gambling Policy [link to www.usa-the-republic.com]
(the EXON)

The following is presented "as is", just as it was first published in 1983 in a book titled "The Tontine Government." This transmission is not offered for general consumption, as only a very small percentage of you will understand or appreciate its contents, and it is for that very small percentage that it is primarily being offered.

T H E E X O N [T h e E x e m p t E l e c t]

[EXON: "(In Britain) one of four yeomen of the guard who act as commanding officers in the absence of higher authority. Also called EXEMPT."]

The Federal Reserve Act transferred the money-making powers of the United States to a private group of bankers who then set up the fractional reserve system of banking. Under the charter granted to this private corporation, there was a stipulation that if the American people did not agree with its operation, the people had 20 years to oust the corporate charter. They could (or were entitled to do this) by the use of an ancient Common Law Writ called a Quo Warranto ["quo warranto" means "by what right?"] After 20 years it becomes a matter of Public Policy; Public Policy being a part of the Law of Nations under the Law Merchant. Twenty years puts us to the year 1933, which is the infamous year the Congress suspended our Public National Money System (Gold Standard, House Joint Resolution 192, June 5, 1933) and put an end to the American people being able to "pay" their debts "at law." Upon reading the debates of the 73rd Congress in 1933 on the subject of the gold standard, one learns that on June 5, 1933 America became bankrupt; being unable to tender in "payment" of debts.

But that is only part of the story. What you probably also missed was the part where America was re-insured by a credit policy and this was done under the Statute of 19 George II c. 37. At the stroke of the pen, American lost its Constitutional government in "payment" of debts and its 18-delegated powers, along with its allodial land titles and all the "law" that went with it. Instead of "paying" taxes to support a democratic-republican form of government, where the people are sovereign, we now have a parliamentary-republic in which the Congress is the sovereign. But more importantly, all we can do is a compelled performance in "discharge" (NOT PAYMENT) of debts. These "discharges" are nothing more than insurance premiums to the Federal Reserve, which is a Tontine policy, which is re-insured by a credit policy.

The idea of a Tontine scheme is nothing new, but has existed in one form or another since the Roman Empire. As time went on, it became more sophisticated up to the point where it is today. The first Tontine started in America in 1791. By the year 1880, Tontines were very numerous and were quite corrupt. There was practically no end to their power due to the immense amounts of money involved. As a result of this money power, the Tontine insurance companies were buying up businesses and controlling the government. As a result, the Tontines became so corrupt and gross that they threatened the American family and the very basis of the United States of America. This corruption spurned the Armstrong Committee in the year 1905 to investigate the Tontine insurance companies. After a long investigation, the committee recommended that the state legislatures pass legislation banning Tontine schemes. This was done under the non-forfeiture statues. The owners of these Tontine schemes saw that their whole world was about to collapse because of the pending legislation regarding their schemes. They immediately went to work to establish a federal system to both broaden the scope of their operation and avoid the problems of operating in individual states. This was the start of the Federal Reserve System in 1913. The Tontine policy is a gambling policy, or what is called in the law, a wagering policy. The cunning plot to reinstitute the Tontine scheme at the Federal level in the name of the Federal Reserve is by all means cunning and despicable. This is the basic groundwork used to enslave the American people.

Their next move was the suspension of the Public National Money System (HJR 192) in "payment" of debts, and then 5 years later, the Erie Railroad v. Tomkins 304 U.S. 64 case, which opened the floodgates to flood the country with insurance script, debt and credit in "discharge" of debts.

The plot to enslave the people thickens even more because until the advent of (HJR 192) and the Erie Railroad decision, the Maritime or Admiralty Law now prevails over the entire country through re-insurance of a credit policy mentioned earlier. The second a person touches the credit system of the Public National Credit (Federal Reserve) they have involved themselves in a Joint Maritime venture for profit in a Tontine policy of limited liability for the payment of debt. The joint venture being the use of the communal credit, Maritime Law is a credit system, and finally, you have created an insurable interest because you used the credit system of the commune. The insurable interest is what the federal income tax, right to work taxes, property taxes, and all the other obscenities that you can think of are about. These are not taxes, but insurance premiums on the use of the credit for profit.

In the case of De Livio v. Boit, 2 Galliston, Mass., Federal Case No. 3776 (1812), it was held that insurance is a maritime contract, therefore, of Admiralty Jurisdiction. A person's involvement in Maritime Law (communal credit of the Tontine, HJR 192) means you are on a voyage and hopefully it will be successful (gambling) and you will make a profit. Under limited liability for the payment of debt, the limited liability is provided by the insurance premiums you tender (your taxes).

Common Law insurance is for the security of the family unit and not for profit. This means that you want to place yourself under the Common Law rather than the Maritime Law, unless you are greedy, corrupt and in control of the system! The principles of Maritime Law is not family, but rather for profit, and under Maritime Law you can be (and are) compelled to carry insurance (pay taxes -- a form of protection money) and you are now beginning to see the mess this country is in and how we got here.

The gold bill being promoted by Rep. Ron Paul from Texas is another hoax by the enemy in order to destroy the Federal Reserve, thereby allowing the Class "A" stockholders of the Tontine to foreclose on the United States Treasury, whereby all the land titles will be totally locked up along with the highway system that has the U.S. in front of the route number, the Library of Congress will be confiscated and all the truths about the corrupt Tontine will disappear forever. These are only a few of the foreclosures to come. Rep. Ron Paul's gold bill is a private gold system owned by the owners of the Tontine swindle. This gold bill will not repeal HJR 192, nor will it be a Public National Gold Standard owned by "We the People" in "payment" of debt.

The Formula of the Federal Reserve is as follows:

Fractional Reserve Banking is a Tontine policy, re-insured by a credit policy in the form of ex-chequer annuitie bills generating an over insurance, which is split with the Class "A" stockholders of the Federal Reserve and the United States Treasury. This split started in 1946 to fund their socialistic programs whose effect catalyzed small investment and over-consumption, postulating traded discounted script, compounding on Tontine principles, whose price premium is being confiscated through insurable interest at positive premium, positive premium, reflecting inflation.

As one can see, the freedom movement has been taking an historical approach to the problem and this has been in error because nowhere in the history of the world today have we dealt with the issues that we are confronted with today.

An interesting fact, as a result of the Tontine (Federal Reserve), HJR 192 and the Erie Railroad decision is this: there is no longer an immovable law (Common Law) of the world to guide commerce. Everything is in collision through a Tontine (gambling policy) for profit (greed) under limited liability for the payment of debt, ala John Calvin and the Teutonic Order. For more information on the Teutonic Order, see the "Black Book of the Admiralty" 4 volumes, the authority on Admiralty Law. The above Tontine, HJR 192 and the Erie Railroad decision, 304 U.S. 64, has now turned private enterprise, not free enterprise, into public law under the International Law of Marine Insurance under the guise of National Government. This law of insurance (limited liability for the payment of debt) has superseded the Common Law and equity. All the Law and equity has been dismantled and replaced by a wagering policy of insurance under Admiralty Law.

Since HJR 192 and the Erie Railroad decision replaced the immovable law (Common Law) with the movable law (law of marine insurance), then it follows that there are in reality, no Common Law juries today. Today's juries decide no issues of Law. Today's judges, state and federal, are now more properly Vice Admiralty Chancellors ruling in marine insurance and the juries merely advisory councils which serve as the conscience of the Vice Admiral (after being instructed by him). The legislature (sovereign) has already ruled by passing the statute initially. One has to remember that we as a people and a nation are bankrupt and insolvent, being unable to determine our own destiny because we cannot truly "pay" our debts. You are not responsible today for what you do, Common Law however is full responsibility for your actions.

Organized religions of today teach the Tontine principles of the Teutonic Order. Proof of this is that the church will not marry you unless you get permission from the State. The license, incidentally, is purchased with Tontine insurance script. This license requirement is a direct result of the church having its franchise to operate from the State under limited liability for the payment of debt (forgive our debts as we forgive our debtors). For more on John Calvin, read Thomas Jefferson's letter to Dr. Benjamin Waterhouse, June 26, 1822. For profit, because the church is tied into the Tontine credit system and is gambling to make a profit. Ultimately, what this all means is the One World Corporate Church (EXON) operates for profit while its debts are passed onto the reprobate or non-elect slaves on Space Ship Earth. This "good ship Earth" concept is important because it allows the law of maritime insurance and not the Common Law to operate and our freedoms are based on the Common Law as prescribed by our Founding Fathers.

The law of maritime insurance (Tontine) imposition is destroying families by turning them into warring cannibals. The order of the day will soon be murder, rape, robbery, distrust and lack of respect for your fellow man, along with unidentifiable fatherhood to be a corporate cog in their machine to worship their coal-tar god of EXON. This will all work for the benefit of the people of EXON (the elect) who will be exempt from all liabilities. These EXON are the last survivors of the Tontine swindle, such as George Rapp and his Harmony Society that became the first Tontine court case in America. In this case, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court upheld the people's right to enter into a commune and each surrender his property into one common stock for the mutual benefit of all. Schriber v. Rapp, 5 Watts 23 (1836). It is this very case that opened the door for the destruction of America and its precious document called the "Constitution of the United States." The Class "A" stockholders of the Tontine Life Insurance Corporation of limited liability for the payment of debt called the Federal Reserve. They will own everything on the face of the Earth and the non-elect reprobates will be locked into performing as slaves. The non-elect will be forced to use all the EXON's phoney products so the EXON can show a profit. Thomas Jefferson said it will take mankind at least 2,000 years to overthrow this slavery should we become totally locked into it.

This may sound like an insane story, but it is true, nevertheless.

Lee Brobst - Lecturer
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/25/2013 09:32 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thread: Pay No Taxes legally -End the FED -synopsis page 8-Why are waiting for someone to do it for us like Ron paul (Page 87)
federal reserve notes are a private currency you pay tribute/user fee to use them. web search: irrecusable obligation Get mad, and demand the Peoples interest free money United States Notes at your bank.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 136140


Discussion of private credit vs lawful money is found here: [link to savingtosuitorsclub.net]
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/26/2013 12:55 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
If you scroll down a bit on this page:
[link to libertystreeteconomics.newyorkfed.org] you will find the following paragraph:

"What if you had to transfer money to somebody in a different part of the globe? As the Roman dominions expanded into Greece, Spain, North Africa, and Asia, Roman finance actually faced this logistical problem. If you’re in Rome and want to, say, finance Caius’ mines in Thapsus, North Africa, how do you get him the money? He needs the silver to buy material, slaves, and other things, but you’re naturally very reluctant to see your money sail away for Africa, as the chances of it getting there aren’t that high (see pirates, shipwrecks, etc.). “Permutatio, the transfer of funds from place to place through paper transactions, was Rome’s great contribution to ancient banking” (Barlow, p. 168). It worked as follows: The publicani were private companies in charge of tax collection in the provinces (as well as many other tasks; see “Publicani,” by U. Malmendier). They had a branch in Rome and one in Thapsus. So, you’d give them the silver in Rome (or transfer them some nomina) and they’d divert some of their tax collection in North Africa to Caius. This is also how the Republic would finance its public spending overseas. Since taxes were collected throughout the provinces, by trading claims on taxes Romans could transfer funds across the globe–or at least to the part of the globe they had conquered."

That is what I was writing about back a page or two on this thread where I said credit evolved as a method of routing around the problems of pirates on the seas and road bandits upon the land.

However, the pirates and road bandits now have stationary positions (offices) and send "strong armed men" out to coerce any and all engaged in private enterprise to pass through the office and make a "voluntary contribution" to the pirates and road bandit's pension fund plan.

[link to www.worldtrans.org]

The next great evolution in commerce will be encrypted and totally secret exchange that minimizes the depredations of the pirates and road bandits gang. (government)
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
02/27/2013 07:38 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Caught author Scott Craig Mooney on a talk radio show this afternoon. Interesting talk that focused on the Tally stick history in England. He is obviously a fan of specie coinage.

His site: [link to www.parakrisis.com] and all three of his books are available from Amazon

Tally sticks were used in a monetary role for a period of over 600 years; there are some images of the sticks scattered around the net plus the leather purses used to carry them.

TALLY UP!

[link to projects.exeter.ac.uk]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 590644
United States
03/06/2013 04:14 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
FIAT EMPIRE

Features Ed Griffin, Ron Paul, Edwin Vieira, Ted Baehr, and others; 59 minutes and very well done.

Produced by Movie Pubs: [link to www.moviepubs.net] [link to www.fiatempire.org]

Order the DVD in quantity: [link to www.fiatempire.org]

FIAT EMPIRE: Why the Federal Reserve Violates the U.S. Constitution:

[link to www.youtube.com]

Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/06/2013 04:41 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Fractional Reserve Banking as Economic Parasitism, Vladimir Z. Nuri

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

62 pages if you find it in PDF format (located at the Family Guardian site)
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/06/2013 04:51 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
New Zealand Bank Reform; speech made Dec 2000

English spelling changed to Americanized versions. Very minor changes made.

Dr Finlay Thompson, Department of Mathematics, Victoria University

Ladies and gentlemen, thank you all for coming tonight. I want to hold out a simple idea, a vision of a hopeful future: that our beautiful world is big and rich enough to support an environmentally sustainable and socially inclusive economic system, providing us all with physical security and social prospect.

Our objective in this meeting is to open a debate on the fundamental nature of our financial system. We want to build consensus and public awareness of the issues. We need to have faith in our political and financial establishment, and hopefully they will have the good faith to enter into this debate.

The issues that I want to bring up challenge many of the basic assumptions of modern economics. It is, however, a constructive debate that I seek. The credibility of all parties is diminished by confrontation. All that we seek is clarity and transparency, surely we can expect at least that from our bankers.

I would like to thank Michael Reddell for his quick introduction of the functioning of our modern financial system. I agree with, indeed have learned from, Michael about how this complex system operates. The debate here is not about "how the system works". The issue that needs to be confronted, in public, is why the system should allow private banks to create our money.

International Context

This debate is going on all over the world. The issues we bring up have become the central feature of many local efforts around the planet. Grassroots organizations, much like New Zealand Banking Reform, are being formed in Canada, England, Scotland, Australia, Spain, Mexico, Italy, etc. At the same time the Internet has provided these campaigners the communication channels to elevate the debate from the local to the global. The protests in Seattle, Prague and Melbourne demonstrate how real that potential actually is.

The Jubilee 2000 movement, whose basic principles are strongly supported the world over, also challenges the financial establishment head on. In the face of this widespread support it is notable that they have had so little success at relieving the Third World Debt burden that causes so much damage in our world.

As an example of the global nature of this debate I would like to report on an Italian initiative. Earlier this year I had the opportunity to visit Professor Auriti in central Italy. Since July he has been issuing a local currency, with much success, in the central Italian town of Guardiagrele. His objective is simply to highlight and publicize the idea that Italy's Lira is created as debt by private commercial banks. Of course the Banco d'Italia attempted to close down his experiment; they sent in hundreds of finance police and confiscated all the local currency. However he was able to win in court and the scheme is still running. Now he is receiving delegations from central banks all over Europe and the world, for example from Taiwan and Austria.

The point of his experiment is to demonstrate that immediate improvements in the economic health of even a small community are possible by regaining control of the money supply.

A Short History of our Money

The origins of our financial system here in New Zealand go back to the Bank of England. Until then money was gold silver and copper coins. In 1694 the Bank of England was founded with a monopoly in London on the issuing of bank notes, and the protection of the Crown. The Bank of England operated on a fractional reserve: they issued much more paper notes than the gold and silver they actually held. The economy was growing very fast at the time in England, indeed all over Europe, and the demand for a useful currency other than metal was strong. The Bank of England played an amazing trick, converting paper into gold!

Note that the Bank was privately owned and paid dividends to its shareholders. Moreover, they only issued the paper notes as debt, lending to the government and to prominent private businessmen. These are the features that remain today: private ownership of the right to issue currency, and the creation of money as debt, but more on that later.

The Bank of England provided a reliable and inexhaustible currency for the British Empire. As the empire expanded, so did the role of the bank. A five-pound note was considered equivalent to the silver it promised: “to pay the bearer five pounds of silver”.

In 1844 the British parliament debated the issue of effective inconvertibility of the Bank of England notes. The result was to strengthen the bank against further criticism.

When New Zealand's parliament was discussing the Reserve Bank Act of 1933, it is clear that our politicians felt that the only secure reserve consisted of Bank of England notes. It is revealing to read the Hansard transcripts of the time. Money for them was gold and the bank notes were simply a convenient way of carrying it around.

The costs of the first and second world wars were largely paid by enormous borrowing from private and central banks. The money being lent did not exist before, and there was no gold to back it. By the end of the war, with the Bretton-Woods agreement, the world went back to a sort of gold standard. However the costs of the Vietnam War exposed the futility of backing bank credit with gold. In the early 70’s the United States of America unilaterally took itself off the gold standard and the trick was finally exposed, openly acknowledged.

Our money is fiat money. The paper, or electronic blips, has no value of its own. It becomes valuable because we, the general public, accept it.

Debate

The history of our banking system has been accompanied by almost continual debate. In the 17th century Newton, Locke, Hobbs and others wrote extensively on the "money question". Most of these people believed in metal as money.

In America, both the War for independence and the civil war were partially financed by the issuing of unconvertible paper currency. Lincoln’s famous greenbacks for example. In both wars there was an under-current of debate concerning the control of the right to issue paper money, leading to open conflict between politicians and bankers.

In New Zealand, and around the world, the Great Depression created much interest and debate around the "money question". Douglas' social credit movement developed out of that.

The fascist movements in Italy and Germany both insisted on monetary reform.

As we can see this debate is certainly not new. In fact it is very old. However I want to strip off the historical baggage that has been collected along the way and look again at the issues, especially as they relate to New Zealand.

New Zealand in the 1980's

When I was 13 New Zealand’s financial system was changed almost over night with the incoming Labor government of 1984. As promised in their election campaign, the old controls were thrown out the window and a new regime was introduced. Financial experts praised the government and watched to see how the "New Zealand experiment" would go.

The key features of the reforms involved:

1) Complete deregulation of the process of credit creation. Between 1984 and 1987 the money supply grew enormously as a consequence. All this money was created, out of nothing, by the private banks and lent to a new class of super businessmen.

2) The government was advised to stop creating money altogether. Strict budget controls were created and the political forces rallied around the idea of reducing public debt and reducing the deficit.

The result, as we all know, was to begin the process of dismantling the public sector agencies and the sale of public assets. This process goes on and is still being advocated today.

One noticeable feature of the last fifteen years has been the deterioration of the "households net position": together we are sliding further and further into debt. Combined with deterioration in the quality of some public services, this has resulted in a real worsening of our standard of living.

The New Zealand experiment has been a failure. But what went wrong?

The Creation of Money

I believe that it is impossible to understand our modern economy without acknowledging the role that private banks have in creating money. Strangely enough, this aspect of economics is gently skipped over in the textbooks used at our universities, relegated to mathematical obscurity, a technicality. Indeed, Deirdre Kent’s inquiries to the Reserve Bank earlier this year regarding the creation of money were initially rebuked with comments advising her that she must be confused if she thinks that private banks create money.

Most people believe that our fiat money is only created by the Reserve Bank, and that commercial banks simply act as "financial intermediaries".

Luckily for us Michael Reddell has confirmed that commercial banks create money.

They create money by lending it: When you borrow $100,000 from a commercial bank, they do not get the money from somewhere else, they simply create new money with the click of a button.

But who really creates our money? As Professor Auriti points out, we create it by accepting it. It is created by our society, by the interconnectedness of our lives and the community we live in. We create the New Zealand dollar!

By acknowledging that private banks create new money we expose an enormous presumption: commercial banks presume to own the new money that they create when they lend it. They claim ownership that is not rightly theirs and profit from it. Effectively we pay rent for our money.

At the moment the money comes into existence how can we establish the relationship of debtor and creditor if we cannot establish ownership? We can't!

New Zealand Banking Reform believes that:

When money is created it must be credited to the government by the Reserve Bank.

....and a Challenge.

I would like to extend a challenge to our esteemed economists and the officials of our financial system.

Please explain to the public why we should allow private, commercial and largely foreign banks to create our money when we can do it ourselves.

If we did we could:

1) Retire most of our huge foreign debt,
2) Reduce taxes, taxes that go to pay interest on public debt,
3) Lower interest rates in the private sector, increasing employment and
helping everyone to get ahead.

But to do this we need to understand what money really is, and make the system work for us instead of allowing the system to enslave us.

We will need strength and solidarity in front of the inevitable opposition from international banks.

But most of all we need to have hope, because there is a sustainable, just and rich future for Aotearoa.

**** end **** pictures here:

[link to www.scoop.co.nz]
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/06/2013 05:02 PM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Ascent of Humanity by Charles Eisenstein (free online or purchase a printed copy)
[link to www.ascentofhumanity.com]

Positive money group of the UK:
[link to www.positivemoney.org]

You tube channel:
[link to www.youtube.com]
Watch the three part series from the 2013 conference.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/07/2013 09:46 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
United States Budget Dilemma 5.6 minute video;

Has been watched nearly 3.7 million times since publication March 14, 2012

[link to www.youtube.com]

The last line on the screen says "We must all contact our representatives" - like really? that bunch of morons?
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/07/2013 10:03 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Chris Martenson - anyone?

[link to www.google.com (secure)]

Interest bearing hypothecated debt as the core model for a monetary system grows the total debt in an exponential manner.

That is the core message Chris Martenson was and still is trying to get out to the people.

First mentioned in this thread nearly three years ago on page five just before bringing up the Richard Cook suggestion for managing the public credit as though it were a public utility.

JUST CLICK ON PAGE 5 AND CHECK IT OUT YOURSELF
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/07/2013 10:19 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
When you fill out IRS forms you are required to sign under penalty of perjury that you have correctly determined and reported your accounts in terms of "dollars."

But, what is a dollar? There are conflicting coinages all produced by the treasury under direction from Congress;

A piece of paper called a federal reserve note dollar, a pre-1930 90% silver coin with the word dollar stamped on one face, a manganese brass (golden colored) Sacajawea coin stamped with dollar on one face, and more recently a .999 pure silver coin weighing one ounce that is also stamped "dollar."

So, before signing and submitting that report to the IRS, you might want to preface your action with a series of letters to the IRS, and to your congress critters asking them to define "dollar" for your edification.

Christopher Hansen of Nevada has taken exactly that series of requests and you can read about the results here:

[link to www.independentamerican.org]

More recently (February 2013) Attorney Larry Becraft of Huntsville Alabama has submitted a Petition for a Writ of Certiorari to the United States Court of Appeals...

You can read that in html format here: [link to www.independentamerican.org]

Or see the document in PDF format here: [link to www.usbor.org]
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/07/2013 11:24 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
If any reader has followed Hypertiger for more than four posts (usually says the same thing), you should love this page:

[link to www.nazisociopaths.org]

Nazi Sociopaths, the mathematics of rule, says what Hypertiger was attempting to say and follows up with mathematical proofs.

"We have been and are in an eternal war between the productive (those who produce more than they consume) and the greedy (those who consume more than they produce). Civilizations rise (honesty in control) and fall (predators in control). The reader should be able to determine the current state of affairs.

A mathematical proof of the relationship between productive activity and survival of society is derived. This is the most basic law of economics and civilization, which is suppressed and strategically denied by the economics "profession" worldwide, in a futile attempt to obscure the truth and defraud mankind of any possibility of freedom or survival."


That is just the lead-in.
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/07/2013 11:48 AM
Report Abusive Post
Report Copyright Violation
Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Much of the message below was removed for brevity and clarity of the new message. I have injected the "pirates and road bandits" meme into this thread several times.

Today (March 07 of 2012) I have discovered this site (link below) where electronics engineer Bill Ross is discussing criminals who have managed to capture the entire governmental organization.

A general consensus is rapidly forming among the intelligent and morally aware that our civilization is on an accelerating path to destruction, mainly because criminals appear to be in control and the law has taken the wrong side. The basic fact is that we allow them to act in our name, because we fear the personal cost of defiance. This means we are all complicit in their crimes, to the extent of our non-defiance. We are criminals per the Nuremburg Principles, Nazis, for allowing and being complicit in crimes against peace and humanity. What has really happened is the statistics of humanity (5% leaders, 90% followers, 5% criminals) has been taken advantage of and an inversion has taken place where leaders (those we would willingly follow) have been displaced by criminals (rulers, those we fear to cross). This is a naturally correcting process, since criminals in a leadership position will (and have throughout history) impoverish us until the personal cost of complicity exceeds the cost of defiance. At this point, the majority will discover common survival interest and "starve the leech" by engaging in conflict and denial of resources which destroys the ability of the criminals to function or make a profit. Needless to say, this will cost civilization, as it has so many times throughout history.

[link to www.nazisociopaths.org]

Pirates and Road Bandits Union revisit

Subject line refers to the Polleit video where at about eight minutes in he begins discussion of roving bandits and stationary bandits and shows how the stationary bandits become governments and how in the next steps the entire evolution has a strong bias toward ever increasing corruption.

First credit is due to Marco Saba (Italy):
[link to www.facebook.com (secure)]

Marco linked to:
[link to leconomistamascherato.blogspot.it]

Friday, January 4, 2012

Dear Friend of GATA and Gold:

An interview done this week by GoldMoney's Andy Duncan with the German economics professor Thorsten Polleit, in which the professor explains why fiat currency systems lead to "collective corruption," delighted your secretary/treasurer because it reminded him of something a high school graduate said at GATA's Washington conference in 2008 ( [link to www.gata.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 3131543

News