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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Anonymous Coward
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03/19/2013 02:26 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
But "hope and change" is still coming!
sheep
Levi Philos
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03/19/2013 10:45 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
World War III will be the people vs the Money Trust, and online and free book:

[link to www.brandnewlaw.com]
Levi Philos
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03/19/2013 11:02 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
There are two primary causes for both poverty and war

by JW Smith: [link to www.ied.info]
uranian
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03/20/2013 02:39 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Hey Levi, thanks for your continuing work in this field. If you had to distill all of your studies down to one currency system, is it fair to say you'd go with the Gessel ideas as used in Worgl? That's the one system I've seen that worked in the favour of people. I think it has shortcomings when it comes to the role of savings, but gold can work for that; as a means of exchange, demurraged currency is the best example I've seen (still working as the WIR system I believe in Switzerland), I wonder if you would agree.
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 07:01 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Yes; it is my belief that Gesellian concepts supply correct answers. You are correct in presuming that the medium of exchange function can be split from the store of value - and note that this is happening slowly world wide as people deal with fiat currencies and elect to form savings by different vectors.

However, the WIR system no longer uses demurrage, and I have been meaning to purchase the book (Greco mentioned - I have forgotten the title) about the history and practices of the WIR system.

I have one unique approach I have not published... that will IMO make the demurrage principle acceptable.

I recall the monicker "Uranian" but could you refresh my memory a bit? Where are you located? and thanks for the question.


Hey Levi, thanks for your continuing work in this field. If you had to distill all of your studies down to one currency system, is it fair to say you'd go with the Gessel ideas as used in Worgl? That's the one system I've seen that worked in the favour of people. I think it has shortcomings when it comes to the role of savings, but gold can work for that; as a means of exchange, demurraged currency is the best example I've seen (still working as the WIR system I believe in Switzerland), I wonder if you would agree.
 Quoting: uranian 34013269
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 07:04 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This creative and fairly complete reply was found here:

Thread: What is money? It is different everywhere, WTH is it?

1. People specialize. So one guy is a better hunter. Another is a better fisher. They then exchange goods and services. By specializing and trading, they both get more with less effort.
More efficient. Better economy.

2. As more and more people begin to trade, it gets complicated. Maybe you want coffee, but you don't want to trade a whole cow for the small amount of coffee available. Things like that. So people look for items that can be used as 'currency'.

Items used as currency -

- They are all the same. Like Beans. Pieces of metal. Feathers.
- They do not degrade over time. Beans. Pieces of metal.
- They have intrinsic value. Like beans. Pieces of metal.

3. People natrually hang onto these items and the items become more useful for trading then for anything else. So beans and precious metals and feathers and shells... etc. then become more valuable as 'currency'.

4. Physical currencies have limitations though. Hard to make huge purchases. And hard to physcially carry around. Heavy. etc.

So you get banks. People store their physical currency in a building, with guards, for a fee, and trade ownership of their currencies with authorized pieces of paper.

When people start trading these pieces of paper, you get a paper 'currency'. A commodity backed currency.

5. But there are problems with a commodity backed currency too. What if your nation runs on a gold backed currency and some guy finds a million tons of gold in the mountains? He just inflated the money supply. And now he is wealthy.

Governments don't like this.

So they decided to create a perfect commodity to back their paper currency.

An imaginary one.

We call this money.

6. Money is an imaginary commodity created to back a monetary system's currency.

Because it is imaginary, it does not exist physically. And records must be kept and maintained so everyone knows how much of this imaginary commodity exists and who owns it.

7. So today we exchange ownership of 'money' with paper bank notes. Or by using our debit cards to electronically alter computer bank records.




So... that is what money is.

Fucking simple dude.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33719584
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 07:46 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Token economy:

It's a Token Economy, used as a Control Mechanism for Operant Conditioning.

[link to en.wikipedia.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 33733231


Love it! Operant conditioning indeed. And the constant sale of the debt and fear memeplexes...

Thanks for the link.

The money is imaginary, and the debt is imaginary.

FEAR is False Evidence Appearing Real.
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 09:55 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thomas Greco has two blogs:
[link to tomazgreco.wordpress.com]

This is funny! Letter from a REDNECK FARM KID in the Marine Corps

The other blog is titled Beyond Money and the search for WIR:

[link to beyondmoney.net]

One of several results: An Annotated Précis, Review, and Critique of Prof. Tobias Studer’s WIR and the Swiss National Economy by Thomas H. Greco, Jr. and Theo Megalli

and you can order a book which I will now purchase. Thanks to uranian who is goading me...
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 10:09 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The 59 page PDF format is a $3.00 download:
[link to www.lulu.com]

However, I ordered the print-on-demand bound version that is $21 delivered. I hope Greco gets a little kickback.
Gunnz, lots of Gunnz

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03/20/2013 10:11 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Hi, i made this thread.

Anyway, what i see happening is a Cloud Financial System being tested right now. The Totalitarian monetary system in other words.

All money deposited in a bank becomes a whole sum.

If you want some of it, you need to lodge a claim to it with intrinsic details.

There will no longer be individual finance holdings.

Sort of like a giant picnic, everyone brings something, but you can't have all your "cake" and eat it too. You can only have 1 slice, the rest is distributed elsewhere (replace "cake" with life savings).

so, you deposit your lifetime of savings in the bank, but you can't use it all, access to it will be restricted, and you won't even get to use it all up to your death.

They are relying on people to die as well, so their savings remains locked in the finance system.



I say we take of and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
Corp/o/Ration
A Single Entity (group with the same paragon) Restricting consumption of scarce commodities.
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 10:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Demurrage: is it a good idea for a local currency or exchange system? by Thomas Greco (links at the bottom)

The idea known as “demurrage” was put forth by Silvio Gesell (The Natural Economic Order) almost a century ago. Demurrage is essentially a “tax” on the holding of currency out of circulation, intended to prevent the hoarding of currency and to keep it circulating at a rapid pace.

Gesell, an advocate of monetary freedom, had many important things to say and his book is well worth studying. It’s unfortunate that demurrage is the only one of his proposals that is generally remembered. On the surface, the idea has intuitive appeal; however, in practice it is problematic. It was applied during the Great Depression of the 1930s in many issues of “stamp scrip” which became a popular way of compensating for the insufficiency of official money then in circulation. It was also initially applied to balances in the Swiss WIR credit clearing system, but was quickly abandoned. On the whole, it proved unworkable for a variety of reasons. Mainly, people accustomed to earning interest on savings don’t like to see their savings depreciate over time. Further, there is a cost to administer the stamp feature, and it is inconvenient and cumbersome.

The problem with money as we’ve known it, is not so much the slow velocity of its circulation, but the lack of adequate supply of money going to the productive sector. Getting an adequate supply of exchange media (credit) to the productive sector is the basic problem that needs to be addressed in solving “the money problem,” and that is the main point in creating complementary currencies. The localization of economic activity is a desirable and very important side benefit of that.

Physical currencies (paper notes) can be hoarded, and that does become an issue during the bust phase (downturn) in the economic cycle (caused by the defects inherent in the money and banking system), but account (ledger) balances cannot be hoarded, and they comprise the bulk of the money supply. Further, banks can and do create additional money when they make additional loans to either the private sector or the public sector (government). If willing borrowers cannot be found in the private sector, or if the private sector’s capacity to carry additional debt has been exceeded, the government will take up the slack by deficit spending to borrow additional money into circulation (the so-called stimulus spending) to get the economy growing again.

I have articulated in my books better ways to the assure circulation of credits (currency) in a local exchange system, i.e., to prevent stagnation. Part of the membership agreement can be that balances that accumulate above a certain amount in a member’s account will be automatically transferred to a savings account where they will be loaned out (preferably at NO interest) for the purpose of business investment (capital formation). These balances will no longer be immediately available to the owner for the purpose of trading but will become available again at some later time as the loans are repaid. Thus, there is no loss to the member but credits are kept in circulation by making them temporarily available to those who need them for productive purposes.

For this reason, I do not favor the use of paper currencies for a local exchange system, except as an adjunct to a ledger credit clearing system. In that case, paper vouchers can be drawn against a member’s account as a temporary convenience for making small transactions or to pay non-members of the system for goods or services. These vouchers should have a limited period of validity (expiration date) to assure that the credits return promptly to the ledger system. In any case, the paper vouchers should never be more than a small portion of the credits circulating in a community exchange (credit clearing) system.

This issue has to do with the broader questions of separating the function of exchange from the function of savings/investment and the elimination of interest/usury, which requires a much more extensive conversation and has been largely covered in my first book, Money and Debt: A Solution to the Global Crisis.

END QUOTE FROM GRECO; LINKS:
[link to beyondmoney.net]

The Gesell book THE NATURAL ECONOMIC ORDER (in html format):
[link to www.appropriate-economics.org]

Greco's earlier book MONEY AND DEBT: [link to circ2.home.mindspring.com]
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 10:39 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Welcome back and thanks for starting this thread. Your assumption about the cloud financial system is likely quite spot on. The elites who are running things now will be certain to create a spigot on the cloud that waters their lawn on demand... I hope to inspire people to create alternatives to this "cloud" and to get it done without the theatrics, blood, and destruction usually accompanying cultural change.

Should I hold any hope?


Hi, i made this thread.

Anyway, what i see happening is a Cloud Financial System being tested right now. The Totalitarian monetary system in other words.

All money deposited in a bank becomes a whole sum.

If you want some of it, you need to lodge a claim to it with intrinsic details.

There will no longer be individual finance holdings.

Sort of like a giant picnic, everyone brings something, but you can't have all your "cake" and eat it too. You can only have 1 slice, the rest is distributed elsewhere (replace "cake" with life savings).

so, you deposit your lifetime of savings in the bank, but you can't use it all, access to it will be restricted, and you won't even get to use it all up to your death.

They are relying on people to die as well, so their savings remains locked in the finance system.



I say we take of and nuke the entire site from orbit, it's the only way to be sure.
 Quoting: Gunnz, lots of Gunnz
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 11:05 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
That html link to Gesell's book fails.

Here it is in several formats:
[link to archive.org]

and here it is only in pdf:
[link to www.thule-italia.net]

Nice thing about the pdf format is it is easily searchable.

Some people think Gesell was a socialist which is easily refuted if they just word search and read associated verbiage.
uranian
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03/20/2013 04:18 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Yes; it is my belief that Gesellian concepts supply correct answers. You are correct in presuming that the medium of exchange function can be split from the store of value - and note that this is happening slowly world wide as people deal with fiat currencies and elect to form savings by different vectors.

However, the WIR system no longer uses demurrage, and I have been meaning to purchase the book (Greco mentioned - I have forgotten the title) about the history and practices of the WIR system.

I have one unique approach I have not published... that will IMO make the demurrage principle acceptable.

I recall the monicker "Uranian" but could you refresh my memory a bit? Where are you located? and thanks for the question.


Hey Levi, thanks for your continuing work in this field. If you had to distill all of your studies down to one currency system, is it fair to say you'd go with the Gessel ideas as used in Worgl? That's the one system I've seen that worked in the favour of people. I think it has shortcomings when it comes to the role of savings, but gold can work for that; as a means of exchange, demurraged currency is the best example I've seen (still working as the WIR system I believe in Switzerland), I wonder if you would agree.
 Quoting: uranian 34013269

 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


remember these?

[link to www.apmex.com]

how do you go about getting a currency like this (demurraged gesellian type affair) into circulation in the first place? assuming you've got notes printed. i'm guessing it would just need a large enough group of people to agree before hand that they will be happy to use the notes. do you know of a book that details stuff like this in regard to worgl, the details of how it worked? i'm curious in regard to how much the demurrage fee was, how often it was levied, so on.
Anonymous Coward
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03/20/2013 04:21 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
ach dammit that coin is from the bastard child of the site i refer to, but hopefully you got the idea.
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 06:10 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
uranian; get to your questions later...

I downloaded this video today: [link to www.youtube.com] (93 minutes)

Collapse of Complex Societies by Dr. Joseph Tainter

What this video translates to in term of economic matters is he says a complex model collapses into a simpler more efficient model. I believe he is quite correct and will try to explain in greater depth later why.

That silver coin is an interesting collector item - the latest is the Slave Queen: (sales discontinued - probably too many orders is my guess)

American Open Currency Standard: [link to www.opencurrency.com]

[link to www.silverbulletsilvershield.com (secure)]
Levi Philos
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03/20/2013 06:23 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Gesell plucked a number out of the air after some in-depth consideration. 5.2% per annum which is one mil per week and his best guess about loss of value on the average of all goods and commodities. (I have come to a personal conclusion that a much higher rate is justified)

There are three places to obtain documents about the history and newer writings. It is easy to join these groups, find the file folder and just download everything.

(1) ALD Group files area: [link to finance.groups.yahoo.com] (but I think the Tea Party group might have several more files)

(2) [link to groups.yahoo.com] (Look for a file folder titled "communication theory of money") Some of the material there is unique because I wrote it myself.

(3)System Failure - in English:
[link to userpage.fu-berlin.de]
uranian
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03/22/2013 02:42 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
thanks levi, i found some interesting details at [link to www.reinventingmoney.com]
Anonymous Coward
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03/22/2013 07:57 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Truncated and modified; lifted from this thread:
Thread: WOW !!! ,,,,John McCain calls JFK's assassination an "intervention" (Page 3)

More commentary at the end of this extract.


This is a 1907 5 dollar bill.

[link to www.buyuscurrency.com]

This is a 1914 5 dollar bill.

[link to www.buyuscurrency.com]

This is a 1963 5 Dollar Bill

[link to www.daggarjon.com]

This is a 5 dollar bill today:

[link to www.worldfinancialblog.com]

Current 5 and 1914 5 dollar bills have the Federal Reserve seal on them and they are issued by The Federal Reserve.

1907 and 1963 5 dollar bills are United States Notes issued by the US treasury.
 Quoting: Frater


The two Dr Popp books located in the library at reinventing money dot com get into (first) the modifications of redemption in silver or gold to a non-redeemable currency and then (second book) how to create private currencies that are redeemable in a variety of commodities and products.
iron rods from the gods
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03/22/2013 08:25 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
[...]

That silver coin is an interesting collector item - the latest is the Slave Queen: (sales discontinued - probably too many orders is my guess)

[link to www.silverbulletsilvershield.com (secure)]
 Quoting: Levi Philos 590644


You are touching the third rail Knowledge Priest, again a tip 'o the tophat to you, and a twinkle o' the monacle.

The Slave Queen round is probably the most divine casino token Earth has seen, ever.

I noticed on the silver BBSes they are saying "Oh well it's a fad..." But my question would be to these people: What KIND of fad?

First Amendment rights defend a persons right to mock the King, if you will. That's a right Americans have. However, consider two scenarios that are connected to this Amendment:

1: Gold and silver are confiscated EXCEPT those rounds (like the slave queen) which overtly are making a first amendment statement. ...In essence, what part of the COTUS defends a person's right to own gold and/or silver? There is no such portion of the COTUS. However, the first amendment MAY be seen as inviolable, even as confiscation teams sweep the neighborhood. For this reason I considered buying some slave queens but did not (yet). As you say they are sold out, no more will be made, yet even at 35 USD per round, it makes sense for Chinese fakers to mint them.

2: Option #2 is that the Slave Queen ITSELF becomes the itch in the UK eyeball and is itself targeted, meaning that if and when the UK Rothschild money power decides to once again populate the US with hessians in overt colony-humbling excercise, well, they may just be frothing at the mouth to visit the homes of those who (on EBay or elsewhere) have purchased one of these coins.

...So I am simply mentioning two components here, since you are working in the truly divine light, and have mentioned this coin, not minted by any government, but which openly and expertly mocks, the world money power. The Slave Queen is probably the coolest and most challenging item one can hold, imo. I am saying the determining factor as to which way it goes, depends on how much money for hessians, the UK has this time around.

I feel in my gut, that there are billions of potential hessians this time around. India, China, and yes any starving EU nation of the future, will gladly put their boots on the ground to hold an AK-47 and confiscate gold and silver from the disobedient colonists of the USA.

The Slave Queen, which shows Victoria the German as a skeleton, actually goes far deeper as social/political comment-as-money, because they artisan of that coin has mocked the crown itself. The Slave Queen has a poppy on her crown, and the Rothschild seal, so in the end, since the Victoria-bloodline-Sax-Coburg-Gotha clan sees themselves as the truly divine bloodline, this little coin, has the power to provoke them in more ways than any other coin which has even been minted.

Further question would be, which is a more powerful way to provoke the war=debt=slavery cadre? To mint a coin which mocks the Victoria-clan, or a coin which mocks Thomas Jefferson? I am treading lightly here, because of the epicness of this thread which you have imbued with light of truth (and welcome back OP as well), but you can see my question I am sure.

The next question would be like this: What if someone minted silver rounds that have images of [censored] on them? Or perhaps even the faces of [censored] on them? In essence, what is the shock-to-the-system, now that coins can be minted by commoners properly funded, and have images on them which are expertly crafted by the most salient wit?

What will humans on Earth in the year 3013, think of the Slave Queen round, once one of them is unearthed, at that time? Will they be surprised? Will all of them have been melted down by then? These are serious questions.

Also, ...Ah nevermind. I've said enough. Thanks wisdom priest. You are a gem among men.
ExTraDimensionaL777

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03/22/2013 09:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
!

ARE WE REALLY FREE ???????

OR ITS JUST ME MAN ????



ITS A THIN LINE BETWEEN UNCLE SAM & THA DEVIL

......... hf





peace yo hf
These dayz through THA REAL RAP (element of hip-hop)--------------------------------------EACH ONE TEACH ONE----------------------------------------P.OSiTiVE
-> (THERE iS NO REAL RAP ON TV or RADiOs) <- ----------------------------------------------------NO JUSTICE----------------------------------------------E​.NERGY
is the only way youths listen to--------------------------------------------------------​------------------------JUST US---------------------------------------A.CTiVATES
t​he Prophets !!! ------------------------------------"..artificial physical material posessions posses you-------------------------------------------------------​-C.ONSTANT
----------------------------------------------------------​-------------------you are your own self rescue-----------------------------------------------------​-------E.LEVATiON
PROOF -> 'CAN YOU CATCH iT???' --------------------------------------GOD BLESS YOU " [link to www.youtube.com] ----------------------------

remembah: FEAR iS THA MiND-KiLLAH [link to www.youtube.com]

separation is the ego's greatest politRick-------------------------------------------------​----------------------------------------
[link to www.youtube.com]

CONTROL YOUR OWN THOUGHT PATTERNS ! Do NOT allow to be controlled ! --------------------
-------------------------------------​-------------------------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- SELF-DESTRUCTION IS THA POWA
LiGHT = iNFORMATiON ;D ----------------------- ------------------------------------------------------------​--- WITHOUT KNOWING WHAT THE FUNCTION IS !!!!
------------------------------------------------------​-------------------------------------- -------------------------------------------------- [link to www.youtube.com]
peace2daUNIVERSE------------------- There's NO MYSTERiES, ONLY KNOWLEDGE & iGNORANCE ----------------- SAD TO SEE MEDICINE DIVORCE MORALITY... ;/
Levi Philos
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03/22/2013 09:53 AM
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ARE WE REALLY FREE ???????

OR ITS JUST ME MAN ????

 Quoting: ExTraDimensionaL777


Hi Poet Piat; never could figure out exactly what you are/were saying most times. Still have a website?

Welcome!
Levi Philos
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03/22/2013 10:21 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Critique of the Prof. Tobias Studer book about the WIR system. 14 pages; written by Thomas Greco

[link to www.reinventingmoney.com]
Levi Philos
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03/22/2013 10:33 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
The coins of "Zero MacNaught"

[link to chiefacoins.com]

[link to erikmccrea.tripod.com]

Zero MacNaught lives between Nichtsburg and Zilchstadt.

(humor; I cannot say for certain whether such coins exist)
Levi Philos
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03/22/2013 10:36 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Other interesting coinages: [link to www.joelscoins.com]
Levi Philos
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03/22/2013 01:42 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Yeah: "The Slave Queen, which shows Victoria the German as a skeleton, actually goes far deeper as social/political comment-as-money, because they artisan of that coin has mocked the crown itself. The Slave Queen has a poppy on her crown, and the Rothschild seal, so in the end, since the Victoria-bloodline-Sax-Coburg-Gotha clan sees themselves as the truly divine bloodline, this little coin, has the power to provoke them in more ways than any other coin which has even been minted."

I took one look at that coin and knew I should place an order for at least a full tube - but I didn't.

Certain to double in price and then over the years - one of those that goes for perhaps thousands.

Had "collectible" written all over it.

My congratulations to the mint.
Paul Grignon
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03/23/2013 10:31 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Verboten link; writer was Paul Grignon

We (and society in general), are totally dependent on BANK (ing) CREDIT for our supply of MONEY. That has to STOP!

When BANKS decide to STOP loaning money, then there simply is, NO money; e.g. ‘The Great Depression’ of the 1920-30s.

Yet, BANKS decide WHO gets the money, and who DOESN’T!

And you and I, aren’t in that privileged ‘extended family’ (of this 'elite class' also known as 'the central banks/bankers).

Who DOES get (the) money!

“Here's a staggering thought.

We are completely dependent on the Commercial banks,

If the banks ‘create’ enough ‘synthetic’ money, we are prosperous:

If not, we starve.

We are absolutely without a ‘permanent’ money system.

When one grasps the complete picture of this tragic absurdity of our seemingly 'hopeless' situation, it’s almost incredible, but it’s true.”

“One thing to realize about our ‘fractional reserve’ banking system is that, like the child’s game of musical chairs,

As long as the music plays (keeps circulating), there are no losers.”

– Andrew Gause, Monetary Historian.

Banks ONLY ‘create’ the amount of the PRINCIPLE.

Where’s the INTEREST supposed to come from?

(from our 'sweat and tears!)

The SOLUTION!?

“Anyone who believes that ‘exponential growth’ can go on ‘forever’ (indefinitely) in a ‘finite’ world, is either a madman or an economist.” – Kenneth Boulding, economist.

There can be shortages of resources and skills, for sure -- but why should there ever be a ‘shortage’ of money?

(They're only 'goddam' pieces of paper, after all!? :)

4 x Questions need answering, right away . . .

Q1: Why do governments CHOOSE to borrow money from PRIVATE banks, at a given interest rate, when they could create all the ‘interest-free’ money it needs, all by itself?

Q2: Why create money as (a) DEBT?

Why not create money that ‘circulates’, permanently!?

Q3: How can a money-system, dependent on perpetually accelerating growth . . be used to build a ‘sustainable’ economy?

Q4: What specifically needs to be changed?

(The SOLUTION!?)

[We will NOT tolerate USURY in this ‘kingdom’!]

All 4 'major' religions of the world once ‘outlawed’, USURY! (charging of ‘interest’ on money loaned out.]

But, went the ‘theory’, lending money involves RISK – the key argument against usury.

(Those with and/or in control of, money, (and in favor of usury) say, why WORK when MONEY can make MORE money!?)

SUSTAINABLE Economy

Starts with restricting ‘spending’ equivalent to our 'Solar Input'.

E.g. No more plundering our natural resources, e.g. cutting no more trees in a year than that which grows or re-grows (naturally) in that year!

Our existing ‘money system’ depends on ever-accelerating growth!

Time to say NO to creating money as debt!

“I have never yet had anyone who could, through logic and reasoning, justify the Federal Government ‘needing to’ borrow the use of its 'own' money . . .

I believe the time will (has) come when people will demand that this be changed. (like right NOW!)

I believe the time will come when they (i.e. anyone) will actually blame you and me, and everyone else connected with the Congress (Parliament) for sitting idly by and permitting such an idiotic system to continue.”

– Wright Patman, Democratic Congressman 1928-1976. Chairman, Committee on Banking & Currency 1963-1975.

Tinkering with IT, won’t work either, as we know.

The SYSTEM must be replaced!

Is a 'return to GOLD' the solution? Or SILVER being more abundant than gold?

Those with NO gold or silver would have no money!

Remember: Money is just an IDEA. In reality it can be whatever we make it.

It’s only a . . . . . . symbol, commodity, receipt for commodity, bogus receipt, fiat (gov't cash), debt (bank credit) and/or debt (pledge).

What about the old proven system of the past – (destroyed and undermined by the gold-smith-bankers) called:

The Tally Stick System!?

A tally (or tally stick) was an ancient memory aid device used to record and document numbers, quantities, or even messages.

Tally sticks first appear as animal bones carved with notches, in the Upper Paleolithic; a notable example is the Ishango Bone.

Historical reference is made by Pliny the Elder (AD 23–79) about the best wood to use for tallies, and by Marco Polo (1254–1324) who mentions the use of the tally in China.

Tallies have been used for numerous purposes such as messaging and scheduling, and

===========================================================
Especially in financial and legal transactions, to the point of being currency. - Wikipedia)
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SOLUTION

A system based on Permanent “Interest-Free” Money.

When Governments once again, spends its own-created money on infrastructure, roads, bridges, transport, hospitals, water and sewerage facilities, railways, harbors, etc.,

This money would NOT be created as DEBT, but as “VALUE” (whatever it was spent on).

This would produce NO inflation.

If there was (signs of inflation), then a Tax could be imposed = Inflation.

Hence 'no loss in value' of money ( - the 'curse' of this system) would occur.

Yes, 'buying power' would appear to decrease, but the same exact amount of tax money would be removed from ‘circulation’ at the same time, thus, maintaining our ‘buying power’.

Thus reducing the money supply, and thus restore its value.

BRILLIANT!

Right now we have BOTH taxation AND inflation.

This way, there would be no more Government, (or Federal), DEBT.
__________________________________________________________

"The modern banking system manufactures (con-jures) money out of ‘nothing’.

The process is perhaps the most astounding piece of ‘sleight-of-hand’ that was ever invented (conjured up).

Banking, (not MAN), was ‘conceived’ in inequity, and ‘born’ in sin!

Bankers own the world.

Take it away from them, but leave them the power to create money, and with the ‘flick of the pen’ they will ‘create’ enough money, to buy it all back again. . . . .

Take this great power away from them, and all great fortunes, like mine, will disappear, and ought to disappear,

For then this would result in a better and healthier/happier world to live in.

But, if we continue to be slaves of the banks and pay the cost of our own slavery, then let bankers continue to create money and control ‘credit’.”

– Sir Josiah Stamp, Director, Bank of England, 1928-1941. (Reputed to be the second richest man in England at the time.)

The American Revolution of 1776 was an attempt, by and large, to get free and stay free from the European international banks!

This ‘freedom’ was finally lost in 1913, when President Woodrow Wilson signed into effect, ‘The Federal Reserve Act’, putting the international ‘banking cartel’ in charge of America’s money.

In all your pre-university schooling, did you ever have a class on “Money Creation”?

Or ever see anything about it on TV?

Nobody has a clue, HOW money is created in our society.

Do YOU?

This system of DEBT was created just over 300 years ago, by the Bank of England, called: ‘Fractional Lending’

“All the perplexities, confusion, and distress in America (and in the world-at-large, now) arises, not from the defects of the Constitution or Confederation, not from want of honor or virtue,

So much as from downright IGNORANCE of the nature of coin, credit and circulation (of money). – John Adams, Founding Father of the American Constitution.

“(only) The government should create, issue, and circulate all the currency and credits needed to satisfy the ‘spending power’ of the Government and the ‘buying power’ of the Consumers (people).

By the adoption of these principles, the taxpayers will be saved/spared (unnecessary) and IMMENSE sums of interest (money).

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The privilege of creating and issuing money is not only the SUPREME prerogative of government,
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But it is the government’s greatest creative opportunity.” – Abraham Lincoln.

Until the control o the issue of currency and credit is returned/restored to government and recognized as its most conspicuous and sacred responsibility,

All TALK of ‘sovereignty of Parliament' and of democracy is idle and futile . . .

Once a nation parts with control of its credit, it matters not who makes the nation;s laws . . .

USURY, (charging interest on money-lending), once in control will wreck any nation. – William Lyon Mackenzie King, former Prime Minister of Canada.

End of story.
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P.S. Source of this information is Paul Grignon

‘Money as Debt’ owes its origin to the work of many dedicated educators and advocates of monetary reform.

It is intended as a general introduction to the conceptual basis of money.
_________________________________________________________

‘MONEY as DEBT’ – (IS) DEAD – or will be, the ‘death of society’ as we know it!
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/23/2013 10:47 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Any attempt to sum up this article by "Gordon Gekko" would fall short. No single paragraph represents the whole.

[link to www.zerohedge.com]

Plus the images are an important portion of the story.

It's Time to Collapse the System (story title)
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/23/2013 01:34 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
"THE ROAD TO THE TRUTH IS LONG, AND LINED THE ENTIRE WAY BY ANNOYING BASTARDS"

Somebody sent an email with this at the foot; thought perhaps to share...
Levi Philos
User ID: 590644
United States
03/23/2013 04:24 PM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
This You Tube is under six minutes but says more than many 15 minute tubes:

[link to www.youtube.com]

Nick Hanauer is a Seattle based venture capitalist. You can read about Hanauer and about this youtube here: [link to en.wikipedia.org]

The video is more than a little controversial.

Nick Hanauer's website: [link to nick-hanauer.com]

Hanauer and Eric Liu are co-founders of The True Patriot Network, a political action tank framed upon the ideas they presented in their 2007 book, The True Patriot. The authors define true patriotism as country above self and explain how patriotism is lived every day in service to others, stewardship of resources, shared sacrifice, and other progressive values. Liu and Hanauer released a book in late 2011 titled The Gardens of Democracy, which provides a reexamination of democracy and provides a blueprint for a new age of citizenship and government in the 21st century.

Eric Liu & Nick Hanauer:
[link to www.newamerica.net]
True Patriot: [link to www.truepat.org]

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