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Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

 
Silvio Gesell
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06/05/2010 12:20 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Schwanenkirchen and Wörgl from the Irving Fisher book STAMP SCRIP found online here: [link to userpage.fu-berlin.de]

The following is most, but not all of chapter four.

SCHWANENKIRCHEN

Not till 1931 was any general notice aroused by Wära. Then the owner of a Bavarian coal mine tried an experiment with it which gradually caught the public imagination. For two years the mine had been closed; and the owner, Herr Hebecker, conceived the idea that he might open it and pay his employees with Wära. He would have to buy the Wära (besides negotiating a loan) and he would have to pay for the Wära with Reichsmarks, but the Reichsmarks were not circulating and the Wära, he believed, would circulate. Moreover, there was already a thin layer of Wära loose in Germany, and Herr Hebecker hoped to win the patronage of those who used it. In part, he was a fellow propagandist with those users, and Herr Timm issued bulletins among them.

Hebecker's employees lived in Schwanenkirchen, a village of only 500 inhabitants. For over two years this village had barely existed by means of the dole. Everybody was in debt; nor could anybody see the slightest hope of the mine being reopened; for (says Mr. Cohrssen, writing in the "New Republic")(2) "deflation raged all through Germany, leaving bankruptcies, suicides and overcrowded jails in its wake. Herr Hebecker assembled his workers. He told them that he had succeeded in getting a loan of 40,000 Reichsmark, that he wished to resume operations but that he wanted to pay wages not in marks but in Wära. The miners agreed to the proposal when they learned that the village stores would accept Wära in exchange for goods.

"When, after two years of complete stagnation, the workers for the first time brought home their pay envelopes, no one was interested in hoarding a cent of it, all the money went to the stores to pay off debts or for the purchase of necessities. The shopkeepers, too, were happy. Although at first they had felt a little hesitant about Wära, they had no choice, as no one had any other kind of money. The shopkeepers then forced it on the wholesalers; the wholesalers forced it on the manufacturers, who in turn tried to pass it on to those who carried their notes, or they exchanged it at Herr Hebecker's mine for coal. No one who received Wära wished to hold it, the workers, storekeepers, wholesalers and manufacturers all strove to get rid of it as quickly as possible, for any person who held it was obliged to pay the tax. So Wära kept on circulating, a large part of it returning to the coal mine, where it provided work, profits and better conditions for the entire community. Indeed, one could not have recognized Schwanenkirchen a few months after work had been resumed at the mine. The village was on a prosperity basis, workers and merchants were free from debts and a new spirit of freedom and life pervaded the town.

"The news of the town's prosperity in the midst of depression-ridden Germany spread quickly. From all over the country reporters came to see and write about the 'Miracle of Schwanenkirchen.' Even in the United States one read about it in the financial sections of most big papers.

But no explanation was given as to the real cause of the miracle - that a non-hoardable money was being tried out and that it was working marvelously. Had Herr Hebecker used 40,000 Reichsmark instead of Wära, his efforts would have inevitably resulted in failure; the money would have circulated through only one or two hands, each person retaining as much as possible and hoarding it because of the hard times. And after a short while Herr Hebecker would have joined the defeated ranks of those thousands who had failed in their struggle with the depression.

"To complete the story about Wära it must be added that subsequently it was accepted in a few thousand stores throughout Germany, and that one or two more entire communities recuperated under the Wära treatment. A few small banks even opened Wära accounts, accepting the deposits and at once lending the Wära out to those who asked for credit. Of course these banks were under the same compulsion of circulating Wära to avoid the one per cent monthly tax, and it was obvious that the depositor was only too glad to have the par value of his deposit preserved without interest.
"The Wära movement had an important influence in Germany. It counteracted the deflationary policy of the government. Numbers of people found employment and in some places prices rose. Wära worked for those who believed in it."

But now the German Government interfered on the theory that Wära was money and therefore an illegal usurpation of a Government prerogative. The question was taken to the courts and Wära won. But the Government continued its opposition alleging that Wara might turn into harmful inflation. With war inflation still fresh in memory, the government was apparently unable to see the difference between the kind of inflation which begins at the level of the ground and aims at the sky, and the modest Wära which began at the bottom of the pit and aimed back at the threshold - without ever getting within shouting distance of it. Under a misconception, therefore, - one of the most common of monetary misconceptions, - the German government imagined that it could detect in Wära the threat of evil - evil to come out of good; and at last the government succeeded in stopping the good. It forbade Wära by means of an emergency law (3) "As a result," (writes Mr. Cohrssen), "Schwanenkirchen and other towns where Wära have provided the life blood of economic activity are on the dole again."

As to the spread of Wära through Germany, not more than 20,000 Wära circulated at any one time. Yet it was said, during 1930-31, that 2 1/2 millions of people handled it. Accordingly, many observers believed that the amount issued was far greater than it was.
So much for Schwanenkirchen and Wära.


WÖRGL

Compared with the Bavarian village of Schwanenkirchen, the Austrian town of Wörgl is a large community. It has about 4300 inhabitants of whom, however, 1500, in 1931 - 32, had lost their jobs; for, in and about Wörgl a number of factories had closed their doors. Taxes, therefore, were in arrears, and the town itself was almost as "down-and-out" as these 1500 of its inhabitants.

The Mayor of Wörgl, (Unterguggenberger by name) organized a Local Relief Committee, not so much to give charity as to produce jobs.
But who or what was to produce the good Austrian Schillings that would pay for the jobs? This mayor with long name was not disposed to help anybody at anybody's expense. In fact, he was shrewdly and very properly resolved that the town should be one of the beneficiaries of anything that was done. In the first place, out of the new jobs, the town would get new roads and other municipal improvements and repairs long overdue. In the second place, by getting money into the pockets of the workers, it might well hope to recover from those pockets some of the back taxes. But to pay wages in order to recover a part of the wages would hardly be profitable; nor would the imposition of new taxes for the sake of wages for the sake of old taxes be a very good swap.

Herr Unterguggenberger had watched the Schwanenkirchen Wära experiment with intense interest. The solution of the Wörgl situation pointed to Stamp Scrip. The town would issue it, with the consent of the workmen and of a sufficient number of the merchants and also of the local savings bank. The bank was to hold the guarantee fund (in the form as previously described of a bookkeeping transaction). There was to be no final redemption; and the stamps, at 1 per cent per month, were to be sold by the town, and the proceeds used, not for propagating the idea but for the enlargement of the town's welfare work. But though there was to be no final and complete redemption, every holder of the scrip was to have the privilege of redeeming it at the town treasury or at the local banks at any time; but for such redemption a service: charge of two per cent had to be paid. As the stamp was only 1 per cent, the disadvantages of redemption at 2 per cent were, at any given moment, greater than the probable disadvantages of going on at 1 per cent. Redemption, therefore, was not likely to hurt the circulation of the scrip. Moreover the banks and the town were to re-issue any that was redeemed.

And so it worked out in practice.

All city employees, including the mayor, were to receive 50 per cent of their salaries in scrip, and the new emergency workmen, were to be paid 100 per cent in that form.

According to plan, on August 1, 1932, 32,000 Schillings' worth of the scrip (equivalent to about $4500) was issued, in denominations of 1, 5 and 10 Schillings. This amount was later found to be in excess of the actual need, and instead of following an "inflationary" policy, only about l/3 of the issue or less was kept in circulation through re-issues, the rest remained with the city. This showed great wisdom on the part of the municipal administration, as it kept the purchasing power of scrip at par with regular Schillings.

The scrip was called "Wörgl Certified Compensation Bills." The monthly stamps (affixed to the face of the scrip) were named "Relief Contribution Stamps," and each unit of scrip was super-scribed, "They Alleviate Want, Give Work and Bread."(4)
What were the results?

For the following information I am indebted to a Geneva economist, Hermann Scheibler,(5) who went to Wörgl on my behalf and questioned the mayor and the bank and some of the merchants and workmen.

Soiree of the local merchants, like some of those in Schwanenkirchen, had begun by refusing to accept what they regarded as a bizarre substitute for real money; but seeing it circulate and seeing the city employees patronizing the merchants who took it and banked it, the skeptics forced by considerations of competition once more decided to "climb on the band wagon." Soon everybody accepted it without hesitation, because everybody else accepted it. The only cases of permanent refusal to receive the scrip are the post office and the railroad, both of which are government institutions with interests primarily outside of the vicinity where the scrip is supposed to circulate.
The attitude of the Austrian Government has not been hostile.

As to the rate of turnover, the mayor reports that the amount of the first wages paid has returned to the city 20 times a month.
The other facts are contained in a report which the mayor of Wörgl made to the Tyrol state government, January 1, 1933
Taxes had been in arrears from 1926 to 1931 as follows (year by year):

21,000 Schillings
26,000 "
28,000 "
31,000 "
61,000 "
118,000 "

But after the scrip was issued, not only were current taxes paid (as well as other debts owing the town), but many arrears of taxes were also collected. During the first month alone,(6) 4542 Schillings were thus received on the arrears. Accordingly, the city not only met its own obligations but, in the second half of 1932, executed new public works to the value of 100,000 Schillings. Seven streets aggregating 4 miles were rebuilt and asphalted; twelve roads were improved; the sewer system was extended over two more streets; trees were planted and forests improved, and permanent jobs were given to from 30 to 50 of the 1500 unemployed; but probably a powerful influence has been exerted to prevent any increase of unemployment, by keeping business active.

In these benefits, the local banks shared. Up to the date when the scrip was issued (August 1, 1932) withdrawals at the local Reifeisen Bank had exceeded deposits for an entire year; in the first and last months of the said year, the excesses of withdrawals over deposits were: August 1931, 44,362 Schillings; July 1932, 12,355 Schillings. But in August 1932, the first month of the Stamp Scrip, the balance turned the other way by 6591 Schillings, notwithstanding the fact that August is generally considered the poorest month of the year. (7)

On January 1, 1933 Wörgl (which is an Alpine town) had under construction a new ski jump and a water basin for the Fire Department. The mayor says that the scrip has fulfilled all promises, and thinks it should be adopted nationally. At all events, a neighboring city of 20,000 inhabitants, was, at last reports, considering the introduction of scrip within its borders, under the advice of the mayor of Wörgl and of a University Professor of economics, and the Wörgl experiment has begun to attract somewhat general attention in Austria. As conclusion to this report Mayor Unterguggenberger stated: "The Stamp Scrip of Wörgl will have historic significance, because it has kept its promise to provide 'work and bread.' It has, in fact fully satisfied all our expectations."

Gesell's book may be downloaded in PDF format here: [link to www.geokey.de]
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 12:24 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Here is a first level question you can apply to any discussion of money. "Does the writer or speaker address money as though it is a thing?" Because this is the first indicator of a fundamental error.

Memeplexes thousands of years old are carried through and written into laws and regulations and automatically presumed to be true.

UNBACKED CREDIT IS MUTUAL CREDIT

ALL PRODUCERS OF VALUE ARE THE TRUE BACKERS OF MUTUAL CREDIT USED AS MONEY


I have in the past, and continue to refer to the present system as the "Galloping Gertie" money system. This refers to the Tacoma Narrows bridge that was built that had harmonics that caused positive feedback from winds. These harmonics caused the bridge to fail within months of opening.

Interest bearing hypothecated debt (credit) where the original seigniorage is not properly assigned to value producers is the prime cause of failure, and until the seigniorage is properly assigned the problems will continue.

An in-depth examination of the problem and a set of solutions would be a book - not really email material.

We can however, ask some simple questions. Since the money is paper, bookkeeping entries, and electrons, we can ask: "What did they run out of, the paper? the ink? electrons?"

A money system is not the physical economy. A money system is to the physical economy as a map is to the physical geography. If you threw a map into a burning fireplace, would you look out the window and expect the trees, dirt, and roads to burst into flame?

Here are several sites related to the topic. (credit as money)
[link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]
[link to credec.org]
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 12:28 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Labor done creates things of value to human exchange, and at the end of the day whatever work has been done - EXISTS. Concepts such as "debt" & "credit" are just allocative mechanisms by which distribution and ownership of created value is assigned to people.

Existentially speaking, there is no government; there is no money system. The only day anyone can ever get anything done is today; this day.

Things like money systems and governments are imaginary institutions - collective delusions if you will.

That any money symbol such as a gold or silver coin has value is just another segment of the collective delusion.

These institutions are created as methodologies toward assuring the continuation of your family unit and your genes through affiliations with larger tribal units and extending to the limits of your (our) imaginations. Money systems are about allocating the distribution and ownership of the day's production of things of value that extend human life, and governments hopefully are about protecting those allocations and ownerships.

Money is a communication via spoken and written symbols that exist as an extension of language; counterfeiting is any act of lying with money symbols, and using precious metal coinage is simply an anti-counterfeiting (lie stopping) mechanism. The question: "How is a Tally Stick like a Gold Coin?" is answered by the observation that both have excellent anti-counterfeiting characteristics.

Interest bearing hypothecated debt created by the double-entry bookkeeping mechanism as a form of money grows the debt in an exponential manner. It is the "Galloping Gertie" money system.

If bridge engineers were as locked into their thinking as monetarists, we would still be using the same set of plans as used to build "Galloping Gertie" the Tacoma Narrows bridge.

A money system is really no different than a set of plans for a bridge or any other structure. If certain engineered harmonics are a cause of failure, throw the plans out and build without the harmonics. That is what the bridge engineers did, and that is what monetary engineers must do.
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 12:32 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I reached a personal conclusion some time in the past that Mises (and others) were correct that the money concept arises out of credit.

But rejected the idea that only gold can be the "backing" for that credit.

IMO, all credit arises from the people, and the correct role of the banker is an agency where the agent becomes responsible for specific performance of contract. (fulfillment of all contracts between the people)

To assure that contracts are filled, we must recognize a natural law expressed most simply as "shit happens." To assure the fillment of contracts a combination of performance bonds supplied by the players and insurance fees paid by all money users must exist.

At inception of contracts the signatory to the promise to create and deliver value in the future must post a performance bond in the form of a deposit of precious metals. Like any bond, this only needs to be a small percentage of the value of the promise. When a contract fails the agent liquidates the bond selling at open auction and recovering some medium of exchange and furthermore liquidating any residual value in the promise thus recovering more medium of exchange.

Any medium of exchange remaining in circulation that represents the collateralization of the promise (that failed) is removed from all money users by the application of demurrage. This insurance fee is extracted from all circulating medium and from accounts of record.

Thus, price structures can be stabilized.

The demurrage fee also pays for full time professional administration; the agency needs to be run as a not-for-profit with an open books policy.

The reference standard for value could be based on a Borsodi algorithm, but my preference is a unit of human time - the hour - and the total medium of exchange in circulation should be controlled as so many units per capita or some population demographic.
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 12:36 AM
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I now remind the reader that the fifth plank of the communist manifesto was implemented under Roosevelt in the thirties when the credit of the people was taken in the name of "government." Government then licensed the banks to loan the people's credit back to the people. All of this was done without proper bookkeeping that would reflect upon the proper ownership of the credit. This fundamental error is the basis of the "Redemption of the Strawman" movement where the people attempt to write off debt by entering various "bills of exchange" into the record and using these to offset debt.

Fifth Plank: Centralization of credit in the hands of the State, by means of a national bank with State capital and an exclusive monopoly. (The Federal Reserve Bank, 1913- -the system of privately-owned Federal Reserve banks which maintain a monopoly on the valueless debt "money" in circulation.) [link to www.criminalgovernment.com]

So long as there is work that needs doing and people available to perform that work, then the people's credit is perfect. Only the bookkeeping is screwed up.

You must read Prof Auriti's Ownership of Money and the Induction of Value piece found various places; just search.

Even if you have read this piece, I advise reading it again. A thorough understanding of the points Auriti makes is a critical issue. Very closely related is the Mandrake Mechanism written by Ed Griffin which explains how double entry bookkeeping creates money out of thin air using the promissory note as the collateral entered into the books as an asset.
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 12:40 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Governments are created by elites to protect themselves from the populace upon whom they prey and from the governments of other elites in other places in the world.
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 12:42 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Stefan Molyneux "It's Not Your Debt" [link to www.youtube.com]
*Shaun*

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06/05/2010 12:42 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
hf
~*i love you*~
Nancy Lazaryan
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06/05/2010 12:51 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
I just posted this at the RAP/Nesara blog in response to Casper's rantings:
[link to nesaranews.blogspot.com]

Casper,
You are just a voice piece for the bankers.
This whole mess STARTED by the bankers created gold-backed certificates. It morphed into the debt-based currency. With the bankers funding both sides of ALL wars, the bankers required the nations to pledge their land and their people.

This is why the income tax collected by the IRS does nothing more than pay the interest on the loan for the IMF. We will NEVER pay back the loan, as the people will always be paying interest only.

Casper, you are a disinformation agent. Why do you not tell the truth? The debt-based bankers got too greedy. They sucked too much out of the people, and the entire fiat banking system is in collapse.

This new Basel III gold-backed currency is NOTHING MORE than a magician's slight of hand. The bankers will still have control of all the nations, as they will control the world central bank, and the lions share of the gold.

EVERY nation should tell the IMF to get the hell out.
They should create their own currency, based upon PRODUCTION and not upon debt. Screw everyone else. Save your country. Control your own currency.

BTW each of the states in the Union of the states of America have the same power to control the currency within their state.

Everyone that is expecting a "prosperity package", I hope to God that you are not being used as a pawn to re-establish the power of the world central gold-standard bank. Yep. They need people to distribute their gold-backed currency worldwide.

John, I dare you to post this.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 12:58 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
EVERY nation should tell the IMF to get the hell out.
They should create their own currency, based upon PRODUCTION and not upon debt. Screw everyone else. Save your country. Control your own currency.

BTW each of the states in the Union of the states of America have the same power to control the currency within their state.


 Quoting: Nancy Lazaryan 777624


EXACTLY!!

clappa clappa
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 01:01 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thread: ‘A conspiracy against life’

"A Conspiracy Against Life" ~ quite long but worth the read to understand how this whole mess got started way back BEFORE the time of the Pharohs....
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 01:08 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
THE UGLY TRUTH is that if you are arrested for a federal crime in North Carolina, NO BAIL is set. Yes, even though the Eighth Amendment states: "Excessive bail shall not be required…" it does not state that any bail must be set! Of course, this abuse of the US Constitution has been appealed to the US Supreme Court, and the great court of the land has upheld that no bail is required to be set and nullified yet another sacred right that our Founding Fathers sought to guarantee. So, the ugly truth is that when you are arrested for a federal crime in North Carolina, you are either released on an Appearance Bond with ALL the its restrictions, or you sit in the stinking, rat infested Mecklenburg County Jail for an average of two years before joining the 95% of all indicted who are convicted! Such is the sorry state of the current federal "judicial" system. I regret to inform you that another restriction has been added to my Appearance Bond. I have been ordered by Judge Voorhees of the US District Court in North Carolina to either remove 90% of the content on the Liberty Dollar site, my number one source for my defense research, or go to jail. I have chosen to remain "free" to work on my defense and vindicate the Liberty Dollar. Please enjoy this mere shadow of a once great monetary site and search the Internet for all your monetary inquiries while you still can.

If you wish to make a donation to help cover travel, room, and misc. expenses during this landmark monetary case, please send anything you wish to:

Free the Liberty Dollar Four
527 N. Green River Road #158
Evansville. Indiana. 47715

If you wish to learn how all three branches of government conspired to corrupt the "monetary clauses" of the US Constitution and bankrupt American with fiat money, please read:

The Evolution of Money:
A Story of Constitutional Nullification

For an overview of what is happening in the United States of America today, please view this video:
Fall of the Republic

Please take action right now to protect your purchasing power
and the ideals that our once great country was founded upon.



[link to www.libertydollar.org]

God Bless America - it needs all the help it can get!
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 02:30 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
promising but not possible.
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 05:16 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Web of Debt - Dr. Ellen Brown [link to www.ellenbrown.com] & [link to webofdebt.wordpress.com]


She has used Web of Debt to expose important information regarding out nation's debt and the dwindling spiral of our economy.

Her five part video series begins here: [link to www.youtube.com]
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 05:23 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Chris Martenson has a series of videos which are put up on the web in a format that cannot be downloaded and saved. He is selling the series on a single DVD or with more information as a series. Here is the video series: [link to www.chrismartenson.com] Purchase: [link to www.chrismartenson.com]
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 05:26 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Richard Cook is the engineer who when working for NASA tried to stop the launch of the Challenger because he was predicting failure of the O ring seals.

Richard C. Cook is a frequent contributor to Global Research. Global Research Articles by Richard C. Cook

www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=listByAuthor&authorFi​rst=Richard%20C.&authorName=Cook

His website is at www.richardccook.com.

Richard Cook on C.H. Douglas: [link to www.globalresearch.ca]
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 05:36 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thread: ‘A conspiracy against life’

"A Conspiracy Against Life" ~ quite long but worth the read to understand how this whole mess got started way back BEFORE the time of the Pharohs....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 975801


Thanks guy; here:
The Babylonian Woe

‘A conspiracy against life’

12th May 2010

. . . in their folly the men of the city are willing to wreck our great city, being won over by wealth. False are the hearts of the people's leaders. — Solon, 600 BC

From earliest times and apparently without exception down to the present day, the leaders of nations have been the puppets of moneymen who hire them to rob the people they pretend to rule.

From the ruins of Lagash, a citystate in ancient Sumer c. 2400 BC, where archeologists unearthed the estate of a banker that was much larger than the king’s, up on through the fabled empires of Egypt, Assyria and ancient Greece, each of which was finally consumed in flames due to the machinations of the always secret international money power, humanity has always ruined its own paradise by letting the incredible lure of money overpower its own common sense.

In his book “The Babylonian Woe,” the late Capt. David Astle (1916-2008) shows that the legends recorded in the Old Testament reflect the history of the international money power, and eerily parallel what is happening now.
[link to yamaguchy.netfirms.com]

(readers who click this link should be forewarned the book is badly edited and arranged, yet nevertheless contains extraordinarily rich detail of ancient events, which seem alarmingly similar to what’s happening today).

From chapter 7:

“Through “liberalism,” and so-called “progressive teachings” . . . (the) international money creative force seems to have brought the host land of Egypt to where it was at the time of Akhenaton (1375 to 1358 B.C.), and the Tel Amarna letters which tell of self-destruction and decay, the rejection of old values and beliefs, and the indifference of the a Egyptian rulers to their trust, and to the crumbling of Empire. The degeneracy and complacence of the age was revealed by the fruitless outcry out of Asia from the vassals of the Pharaoh; being particularly exemplified by the despairing pleas of king Abdikhiba of the most ancient city of Jerusalem for assistance against the pressure of the armed assaults of the Habiru.”

Tell me true: is this not the way things are today? These same forces have wreaked their havoc on every generation between then and now.

Yet this is a story we have never heard. Part of the power of money, it seems, is that stories about itself — about what money really does — are seldom written, and less often published. The real history is seldom known.

As Astle writes:

“ . . . the growth of warfare into a very cancer eating into the vitals of mankind, and more particularly the white races, is parallel to the growth of that other cancer which is private, and therefore irresponsible, money creation and emission... It seems that almost none of the scholars make any serious effort to throw light on the real meaning of this matter of private monetary emission, and the disastrous effects that it has had, and in finality, will have, towards the defining of the remaining period of time of man upon this earth, as being brief and uncertain.”

Who was it we had hoped to be?

The legends of our kings have faded from actual reality as we know it.

“Kings largely became the mouthpiece and sword arm of those semi-secret societies that controlled the material of money as its outward and visible symbols came to be restricted to gold, silver, and copper,” Astle writes. “The fiat of the god in heaven which had been the decisive force behind that which brought about an equitable exchange, was replaced by the will of those classes controlling the undertones of civilization, leaders of the world of slave drivers, caravaneers, outcasts, and criminals generally, such as was to be discerned on the edges of the ancient city civilizations, and followed the trade routes between them... The instrument of this will was precious metal, whose supply was controlled by the leaders of these classes through their control of the slave trade, since mining was rarely profitable in the case of the precious metals, except with slave labour, even after the development of hardened iron tools and efficient methods of smelting.”

This development turned our lives over to the bankers in perpetuity.

“The line of communication from god to man through priest-king and priest was cut, being replaced by their own twisted purposes such as they were; not however guiding mankind into the heaven that could have been and where all would be life, and light. and hope, but into such a hell as to escape from which men might gladly come to accept the idea of Mass Suicide...”

Astle calls it “a conspiracy against mankind.”

“Hence the people never questioned the existence of the temple but as the place where the will of the god was exercised through his servants... That it had come to function more as instrument in the capacity of sanctifying front for an international power concerned largely with money creation and the control of the slave trade, itself mainly of criminal antecedents, was something they never came to fully understand; nor that this whole thing of prayer, worship, and devotion was dangerously near to becoming a cruel hoax manipulated by a handful of aliens, who looked at them and their fervour and belief with dead eyes...”

Although plague and disastrous political decisions brought about the destruction of ancient Greece, Astle convincingly describes the process by which the international bankers captured every Greek citystate except Sparta by introducing silver coins (banks controlled the silver mines) and credit ledger entry banking, which allowed them to create money out of nothing, a thoroughly destructive practice which has led to our present financial impasse, the way the big bankers always shake us down, generation after generation.

“Previous references to banking in the Grecian centres and sanctuaries as being conducted by aliens are also verified by Professor M. Rostovtsev,” writes Astle. “The question therefore arises "What aliens?" Would they be members of the same fraternity as the Aramean, Apollonius above mentioned, manager for the economic affairs for Ptolemy Philadelphus; men who were standing almost above and beyond mankind in their manipulation of powers that not so long previously had been reserved solely to the gods and which had been exercised only by that dedicated priesthood surrounding the king, son of god, on earth? Such power being lost to kings forever when in the first place they permitted the institution of accounting to a silver standard in ancient times in the Lands of Sumer and Akkad.”

“The answer may be found to lie in the existence in very ancient Sumeria of a privileged class, who, having access to the “credit” of the temple, thus were able to control the masters of the great donkey caravans who carried such “credit”, or will of the god of the city, from one place of business to the other; incising records on their tablets, of loan of such credit made to enable purchase, or interest overdue, or repayment of such loan as had been made the previous trip. These persons, who may be considered themselves to derive from the hereditary caravaneers and who must have functioned as bullion broker and banker, would have been fully clear on the subject of silver and its function in settlement of foreign trade balances and its use as a standard on which to base money accounting. In the latter days of the city states of Sumeria, it is reasonably clear that during certain periods of decay, a languid and corrupted priesthood might delegate to these persons, not only matters of trade, but also those decisions relative to foreign states so essential to the continuance of the might and right of the god of the city.”

“The special international character of the outlook of these people, sprung as they undoubtedly were from the donkey caravaneers, born to be at home amongst all peoples, yet to always bear in mind the peculiar business of the caravan merchants, their trade and profit, may not have made for decisions as from a true and dedicated god-servant. Thus it may very well be that we must look to the professional caravaneers, from whom descended the Habiru, for widespread dissemination of the knowledge of the possibilities offered to merchants by development of the practices relating to private money creation deriving from a clear understanding of the meaning of accounting to a silver standard, and later the potentialities towards development of monopoly of trade inherent in the actual use of silver as the material on which the numbers of the abstract unit were stamped. The full extent of the possibilities towards the accumulation of wealth through exploitation of varying ratios between silver and gold in different parts of the world, and the possibilities of a private and secret expansion of the total monetary circulation which was open to those who were held in such esteem in the cities that persons were glad to deposit their valuables with them for safe-keeping, may also have been known to them.”

Astle writes that the same power base that controls reality spins it in a deceptive way, usually cloaked in the sanctimonious drivel of a religion.

“...But who was who, or why, or what, little concerned that brain centre in Babylon or Ur, or wherever it was... Whoever they professed to be, or to belong to, meant nothing. Out of death and destruction was their harvest, whether those they said were their own, were theirs or not. The only reality was control of precious metal... Out of death and destruction came the releasing in that day of the all important hoards of stored bullion, and the renewal of the slave herds to be consumed in mining ventures in distant places, garnering the increase of such precious metals...”

Since time immemorial, it has all been shrouded in the secret sanctimony of religious ritual.

“While the purpose of the temple was to cause the people to live godly lives according to the customs of the day and to preserve them from straying out of the ways of righteousness, as it were, the secret and private money creative power, being more concerned with the opposite, the needs of the anti-god, the destruction of the people’s lives, whether of king, priest, nobleman, or merchant, or he who laboured in the field, loaned without such discrimination...”

“Out of the resulting confusion amongst rulers could come nothing but advantage to themselves and their purposes; out of the break up of family and home and tradition, all that the dedicated servant of the god has in life, would come an exhausted and confused people, more ready to accept slavery. Corruption of the priesthood, as in today, was the chief aim of money conspiracy, and by causing such priesthood to lose sight of its high purpose and itself as the voice of god on earth, success in all its other purposes naturally followed.”

Now here’s a quick history of the world. This battle was over a long time ago.

“After the final triumph of the international money creative fraternity which may be identified in Mesopotamia with that period of conquest, reconquest, and conquest again that began with that invasion of Sumeria by the Gutim in 2270 B.C., and ended with the collapse of the Empire of Ur of Ibi-Sin before the Elamite rebels with their Amorite allies in 2030 B.C., and their taking away to Susa as captive, both the cult statue of the Lord Nannar, the Moon God together with the King Ibi-Sin himself, earthly viceroy of that God, those agents of International Money Power, quickly concluded the work of destruction through liberalism and permissiveness, no doubt, so that by 1900 B.C., the Sumerian had totally lost his national and racial identity and will to be... What continued from then on was, without a doubt, a mixed breed with no special allegiance to anything other than "money".”

Who is it really who has done all this, and is still doing it?

“Such agents”, Astle continues, “are shown by the general evidence of history to be a class of dubious origins and antecedents. Imbued with racial self-hatred, these rascals, who are raised up in a time of national exhaustion, against the former natural system of rule, by a triumphant money power, too often are particularly distinguished by a readiness to please those who it seems to them are the masters; even to the downgrading and debauchment of their own kind.”

“The apathy of a controlled public opinion to the deluge of perverted sex drenching the Anglo-Saxon countries today, which could not take place without the connivance of the so-called rulers, if only through their failure to take any serious steps towards controlling its source, is, herein, instance enough.”

“Secretly promoting the concept of “Permanent Revolution” as being most suited towards the maintenance of their control, no sooner did stable and natural god-ordered government come again, then, feverishly digging at its roots, they tore it down.”

“Out of break-up of family and home, out of lust and drunkenness, out of the people living in disorder, and love giving way to hate, they throve. Where they saw signs of nobility and natural aristocracy in living and thought, returning, financial preferment was automatically withdrawn... He who was consumed with animal desires and ignobility of purpose, was their man and eagerly their slave, and willing betrayer of his brethren into what was planned for them by his master.”

“Cruel private monopolization of wealth and capital grew, and where the people had been sheep in the flock, and the king their loving and devoted guide, now that kings concerned themselves with those false policies prepared for them in the interest of the private money creators, the people became lost and disheartened, driven hither and thither as they were by the crazed wolf masquerading in the place of the shepherd's diligent sheep dog.”

“In this time, as today, the people were almost entirely at the mercy of the private persons controlling their money, who then controlled the inflow of precious metals, silver and gold, the foundation of the people's money. The policies of these controllers from their standpoint as internationalists, were necessarily directed towards the stimulation of war against the well-being of mankind.”

“So to sum up the situation so far as pre-Solonian Athens was concerned, a simple unlettered people offered all the luxuries of another world as against the new money whose function is so little understood by lettered people even in this day, without going back 2500 years, had become swamped in debt. The law in respect to this debt had been upheld by a corrupted nobility in favour of the bankers. No doubt it had been represented to them by these same bankers that this pressure of debt on the growing population would keep the masses docile and tied to the land as was indicated by the prevalence of the mortgage tablets on the farms of Attica. This condition, favouring the corrupted nobility of Greece and the international money power, ignored the needs of the new-rich manufacturers of Athens, who were neither able to obtain sufficient supply of local free labour, nor to obtain slaves.”

The squeeze employed by the international bankers was exactly the same one they use today.

“The situation is very clear. The kings and aristocracies as descended from ancient days, as a derivative of their folly in permitting the unrestricted activities of the new bankers, who were now well established in all the major cities of Greece outside of Sparta, saw a class of manufacturers and entrepreneurs come into being, largely foreigners and men of lowly origin. These men, more often than not with the means of nobility but the outlook of slaves, were clearly a serious threat to kings and nobility and the order they represented.”

“The tyrant, therefore, was that force by which international money power as it derived from the control of silver bullion and the slave markets, destroyed all resistance to its total ownership of life and labour and human hope ...”

“The tyrant was one who the banker could rely on to put through his "Leveling" programme, or in the double talk of today, could be relied on to "Press ahead with Democratization", and to work against the class from which he was supposed to have come. He was one who could be relied on to put through programmes of public works, maintain military expenditures etc.; for all such activities strengthened the banker's position as creator and regulator of the exchange unit, and therefore, from those exclusive courtyards wherein he schemed, designer of the life of the city. The banker could not maintain his hold over the city, except his product, ledger credit page entry money, however created, was in constant demand, and the local government deeply embroiled in his schemes. The tyrant had to be one completely in accord with that so-called "democratic" political attitude, which the banker always seemed to espouse ... His ostensible purpose had to be to "Level"; such leveling meaning of course, tearing down everything above themselves, (and above the banker too! ...)”

Why has it been the same formula for evil, all this time, that has ruined what seemingly could be a more peaceful world?

“The evil about money derives in consequence from lack of understanding of its true nature, and particularly from the confusing of money and treasure. It is the persistent failure of mankind to realize that money is but the result of agreement being arrived at amongst a sovereign people through their ruler, to provide themselves with a system of numbers by which their exchanges might be facilitated, and so help them to live a better life... ”

“The evil lay and it may be said, lies, in the forgetfulness of the ruler to respect his duty to provide an adequate money supply for his people regulated by himself and free of obligation to external forces, in such manner as had existed in the Ancient Oriental civilizations in earlier times... It lay in the permitting to private and hence irresponsible persons the power to intervene in that which was the most sacred responsibility of the ruler through the priesthood, the creation and regulation of the medium of exchange: his people's money.”

The trail of betrayal, blood and tears, all bound up in lies, stretches from the very dawn of civilization down to our present day. Astle continues:

“World Government is total government worldwide in which no independent race or people shall be except the rulers, who necessarily will have to be an exclusive caste. Total consent of all presumptuous, if not imaginative, bankers will never be ; but out of the weakness and confusion created by them amongst us towards these their own vain purposes, the world Government they mutter about, may come through conquest, though it is not they who will be the conquerors, though indeed, they will be the principal instrument. There would be no way of bringing about that total monopoly of money, industry and empire, which is world government, save through the manipulation of the credulity of mankind, and the pathetic trust he still maintains that his rulers are the voice of God on earth for him, as he blindly stumbles on, except it be by armed conquest.”

“Armed conquest in its turn in these latter days, cannot be effected without the connivance of conspiratorial money power, although such conspiratorial money power in its virtually insane search for paths towards its own establishment towards World Rule forever and ever, has now become an institution, which in the horror of the weapons of total destruction and obliteration leading to final subjection that it has called into being, and, in its blindness, has also given to our enemies, can only be described as a juggernaut completely out of control, an all-engulfing Terror . . . ”

Capt. Astle created a vivid description of what most historians have feared to reveal. This was the picture 2000 years ago. It remains the same today, and now we know the reason why.

From John Kaminski's website.
[link to www.johnkaminski.info]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 877737
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 05:43 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Babylonian Woe in PDF format:

[link to www.bandung2.co.uk]

and here: [link to loveforlife.com.au]

197 pages
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 06:18 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Thread: ‘A conspiracy against life’

"A Conspiracy Against Life" ~ quite long but worth the read to understand how this whole mess got started way back BEFORE the time of the Pharohs....
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 975801


Thanks for the link to John Kaminski; that guy is an independent thinker for sure. I endorse that site for the mentally acute reader of this thread: [link to www.johnkaminski.info]

I learned a new word this eve: metaphrand. Not an approved word for scrabble, but seems to be in some usage. A search for meaning took me to "The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bicameral Mind" by Julian James. People have recommended this book to me several times. (written ~1978?)

Anyway, a little off topic to this thread, but the point is that John Kaminski has also spent some time thinking about the money subject and obviously is capable of independent thought - so check out his stuff to broaden your outlook.

Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 06:22 AM
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Ya mon

Into the void, woo hoo, bank collapse, financial collapse, housing collapse, collapse of the family unit (hehe), eco collapse, oceanic collapse, job loss, collapse those anoying soup clouds.

Am I missing something.
Irdoooomed

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06/05/2010 06:23 AM
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Yay for a one world government!
Twenty grand dood, it's a lot of money!

Recently homosexuals have been making anti christian threads. Think about it.
Levi Philos
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06/05/2010 09:43 AM
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Consider first in an allegorical sense, some computer history and writing. First, Joel Spolsky, "The Law of Leaky Abstractions" [link to www.joelonsoftware.com] {quote JS} All non-trivial abstractions, to some degree, are leaky. {/quote}

A money system is to human society as an operating system is to a computer.

A money system is a meme set (files) that collate together and provide rationalization and allocation of the output of human effort.

With computers, we only need to go back to the 80s, but with money systems we must go back thousands of years.

The first money was in the form of warehouse receipts backed by families and carried a family crest. These might have been stamped on clay pieces or they might have been leather disks.


So, I must ask: "Accountants count, but what are they counting?"
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 09:47 AM
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You create a resource-based economy along with an automated labor force and govern by reason and the scientific method. Don't elect people, elect ideas!
 Quoting: J-Bird


dance trio band dick
Anonymous Coward
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06/05/2010 09:57 AM
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Oh yeah!

The fingers of Jesus are curling under the moneychanger table.

CAN YOU FEEL IT?

He is about to launch that fucker.

Picture it in your mind, as it rotates in mid air, coins and drachmas etc caught in mid air. The children are smiling as is the Master, every muscle in his body tensed in his moment of Kingly and Priestly authority. "Do not make my father's house a house of robbers!"

Bible says he made a whip. So he had a cat o nine tails or maybe like Indiana Jones? Except that Jesus was surely fond of serpents?

He is frozen there, in his favorite moment, thrusting the money carts upward to the sky, as hard as he can, and whipping the asses of the cretins who thrived off of people's piousness.

The city was a dead city, doomed to suffer Roman bull-killing sacrifices not 200 years after Jesus lived, and yet, in that moment, though the Romans were about to kill Jerusalem and the moneychangers and the rabbis ALL KNEW IT, there is the Master, fucking up their little party, spitting venom at them.

Praise the Lord.
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06/05/2010 10:04 AM
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Interest bearing hypothecated debt (credit) where the original seigniorage is not properly assigned to value producers is the prime cause of failure, and until the seigniorage is properly assigned the problems will continue.

[...]

Here are several sites related to the topic. (credit as money)
[link to wfhummel.cnchost.com]
[link to credec.org]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 590644


Yo my brother you are hacking at the ROOT of the problem! But you will have to define your terms, specifically who are the value producers?

If you want to get all John Galt with this, tune in Wednesday night for GLP voice chat, where John Galt himself will be there.

Agents will be trailing Mr. Galt back to his hidden Hall of Justice. We will know where he is at and we will force him to save us! Fear not!
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 10:07 AM
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Youtube; Defeating the state through jokes: [link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 10:33 AM
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It is so awesome to see Astles "The Babylonian Woe" being posted here.

The rider of the white horse is said to destroy the nations with an iron rod? "He shall break them with an iron rod smashes pottery."

That iron rod, will be like the ones of Sparta. It will be an iron rod, which has a monetary value, and which is suitably engraved. It will be high-dollar legal tender, in iron rod form. I am describing what Astles' book explains clearly that vinegar-quenched iron was the only viable solution (or shells, tally sticks?) to getting the human slavers (gold and silver whores) from siphoning wealth out of your country!

As you can imagine, drug dealers can't pocket iron rods and it's just not useful outside the country.

So when we have iron rod currency in America under the rider of the white horse, according to the template used by Sparta to fight the money-changers, then there will be an end to this economic world and the new one can begin.
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06/06/2010 10:34 AM
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2 things the human race will have to combine and achieve before we evolve.

if we don't, it will be like a stagnant parasite within us all.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 876442


Sir,

We are working on it,

Sincerely,


The Illuminatti
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06/06/2010 11:23 AM
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Clear Your Mind Reports: [link to www.buildfreedom.com]

Discourse on Voluntary Servitude: [link to www.buildfreedom.com]

TL07B: The Nature of Government: [link to www.buildfreedom.com]
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2010 11:32 AM
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Re: Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments
Money = SLAVERS MARKS.
Government= SLAVE ENFORCEMENT.
PERIOD!

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