Get rid of the money system, then get rid of goverrments

What would the difference be OP there will still be those with nothing to trade?!!!!

If you didn't have anything of value you would still starve! HAVE FUN WITH THAT!!!!!

From page one of this thread: Thread: Can anyone tell me what money really is?

That's a decent definition of money IMO. I like Walter Williams but haven't heard much from him lately.

Found previously in this thread, but just now re-created on page two here: Thread: Can anyone tell me what money really is? (Page 2)

Search string for today:

financial stability forum

or:

financial stability board

These are the people who tell the bankers what to do and they work for the benefit of the hidden elites.

If you bookmark and check this forum from time to time:

[link to finance.groups.yahoo.com]

You will learn over time what the intellectuals are discussing. The forum moderator is Arno Mong Daastoel who is Norwegian but also spends time in Germany.

I was a recognized member of that forum with full un-moderated posting privileges until I posted some material they couldn't handle. (~5 years ago)

West Coast Radio (probably Vancouver British Columbia Canada) is to have G Edward Griffin on as a guest today February 13.

[link to www.westcoasttruth.com]

The archive should be available in another day or two; questions for Griffin can be submitted to this thread:

Thread: I'm INTERVIEWING author of 'The Creature from Jekyll Island' G. EDWARD GRIFFIN this Friday. If you have questions, I will ask them (Page 2)

The True Story of the Time the Government Printed a $100,000 Bill by Rob Wile

Sixteen images with little actual text from Mr. Wile, so go to this link to gain the story - the story is told mostly with the images and interpretations from Wile.

[link to finance.yahoo.com]

Rob Wile projected the concept that issuing high value notes or coins is a good method for stabilization of a monetary system.

Wrong answer; the correct answer lies in seizure of the banking system along with all assets of the banking system followed by a write-off of all debt and all credit - a total liquidation with return of the assets to the people.

THEN reinvent the money system.

[link to www.reinventingmoney.com]

Left to their own devices with continuation of the intrigue and deception the congress-critters, banksters and apparatchiks will apply various patches and repairs along with some write-down of debt; net result is the new new deal is the same old screw-you - I-got-mine - old deal. And the new lies will resemble the old lies - just coming from a new set of faces.

Search string for today:

Doctrine of Odious Debts

Fraudulent debt is more applicable in my opinion and the beneficiaries of such debt should lose all they gained, but the apparent presumption in the writings seems to be allow the gains and simply stop the process with a write off. (Jubilee)

[link to alcuinbramerton.blogspot.com]

Applying the Odious Debts Doctrine while Preserving Legitimate Lending

Seema Jayachandran
Michael Kremer
Jonathan Shafter1
June 2006

[link to iis-db.stanford.edu] (26 pages)

[link to www.georgewashington2.blogspot.com]

Michael Hudson noted in 2004:

Mesopotamian economic thought c. 2000 BC rested on a more realistic mathematical foundation than does today’s orthodoxy. At least the Babylonians appear to have recognized that over time the debt overhead became more and more intrusive as it tended to exceed the ability to pay, culminating in a concentration of property ownership in the hands of creditors.

***

Babylonians recognized that while debts grew exponentially, the rest of the economy (what today is called the “real” economy) grows less rapidly. Today’s economists have not come to terms with this problem with such clarity. Instead of a conceptual view that calls for a strong ruler or state to maintain equity and to restore economic balance when it is disturbed, today’s general equilibrium models reflect the play of supply and demand in debt-free economies that do not tend to polarize or to generate other structural problems.

Michael Hudson, in reference to Iceland Global Research, April 05, 2009:
[link to www.globalresearch.ca]

Murray Rothbard on repudiating the national debt with reference to odious debt - written 1992 (Rothbard passed away 1995)

[link to mises.org]

My opinion: Fraudulent debt is more applicable and the beneficiaries of such debt should lose all they gained, but the apparent presumption in the writings seems to be allow the gains and simply stop the process with a write off. (Jubilee)

We still need full time professional administration to run a dependable monetary system, but a far superior method of paying such professional administration can be by the process of demurrage (everyone pays). This process is something supported by Bernard Lietaer of Germany who has just released the new book MONEY AND SUSTAINABILITY - THE MISSING LINK. This book was written with help from Christian Arnsperger, Sally Goerner, and Stefan Brunnhuber and is subtitled "A report from the Club of Rome - EU Chapter"

People who believe only gold and silver coin shall be money find the demurrage principle a severe blow to their belief system. However, using human time as the basis for redemption of a note enables a far better rationalization. (Time passes away while gold endures)

A far better method of using gold (and other precious metals) is as a recognized method of saving - thus divorcing the medium of exchange from the store of value - and where such precious metal coinage can be used as a partial backing to promissory notes - a performance bond role.

Some fine discussion on the concept of volunteerism found on page 13 of the thread Sovereign citizens: Is this an accurate portrayal?

My injection will be in the next post.

We (all of the people) get involved in institutions where we may or may not have been directly involved in the original creation of said institution(s).

Anyway to the extent that said institution is working to our advantage or to our detriment we are likely to defend or attack such institution.

In the process, the defend and/or attack mode usually overshadows the fact that we can modify or replace such institutions and simply avoid destruction and bloodshed.

The money system is just such an institution.

A system of multiple money systems running in competition should be more stable and each person can volunteer to participate in one or more money systems.

A thought for the day.

David M was on the track prior to this piece of writing; Notes of Debt are Not Income which was a composite piece that began with a post from the Handyman of Louisiana to which I pasted significant information from "The Informer" (N. Carolina).

The final document you find in PDF form was composed by "Fred"

[link to duckduckgo.com (secure)]

The underlying but hidden question revolves around the question of seigniorage. (many references prior in this thread)

If we are to use credit entries as money, then whom should the bookkeeping enter as the original creditor?

"How would you get food without trading for something? How would you trade for anything, without something?"

well, err, can't we all destroy concrete jungles, create fertile plains and harvest crops / grow fruit bearing trees? can't we all fish for food?

well, nice theoretically, but, realistically, humans are too selfish and spineless for such a revolution to happen.

we're all assholes.

My Uncle Samuel stole my credit card while I had my back turned. He is a trouble maker who gambles wildly and frequently loses. He starts fights all over the place and is a spendthrift.

Now, my Uncle is complaining because I haven't been keeping up the payments...

stop working for yids

Reflection upon written law...

Natural law trumps written law.

A group of people could get together and decide they were tired of having the sky colored blue. And send the air-force out to spray pink color in the sky until it turned pink.

It might succeed for a while, but then natural law would finally prevail.

No written law is that silly, however hidden presumptions might be embedded into written law that have the effect of error telescoping over time with permutations unforeseen by the originators of the law.

The permutations of using interest bearing hypothecated debt as the basis for a monetary system are now becoming apparent. The initial error was made under Roosevelt when the fifth plank of the communist manifesto was implemented.

The credit of the people was claimed to be the property of the government and the government in turn assigned the credit to the banks via "license." The credit entries the bank creates via the double entry bookkeeping system need to have an offset entry to the people.

This is the hidden error that is causing the present collapse in progress.

Modern society is dependent upon division of labor and specialism in skill sets with a high degree of cooperation.

The money system is a complex memeplex - more religion than science while at the same time forming a cultural decision making machine.

Reform and reformation of the present system is discussed in some serious depth in this thread.

I do not claim to have all of the answers nor do I claim to be always correct.

Your thoughtful replies will be replied to in a respectful manner.

Gary North, Tea Party economist:

[link to teapartyeconomist.com]

Gary North is wrong as often as he is right, but I read his stuff on a regular basis.

He has written some serious condemnations of the Greenbackers such as Bill Still and Dr Ellen Brown.

I was unable to discover any greenbackers in support of the trillion dollar platinum coin idea. What's with that?

Go back at least two pages in this thread for links.

Levi Philos, I think you linked to your goverrments thread here, from the "Computer Programming is Bullshit" thread.

So maybe we could discuss flaws in the system?

Why do people not want to invest in botcoins, whereas others see botcoin as something they can trust and use?

I understand that the really only way to keep your botcoins safe is to have a non-IP connected laptop onto which the botcoin record is kept.

But said laptops can be seized within 100 miles of the US border. Sooo, when will you give up and become a revolutionary? It is already end game.

War isn't a game where you win by racking up a big score.

War is a game fought by losers.

The side that loses the least is pronounced "winner."

The losses are counted in destroyed buildings, destroyed industry and infrastructure, and ruined lives.

The only way to win the war game is to refuse to play.

Reinvent money and remove incentive to people who play war to increase debt.

Restructure society, reprogram the social exchange structure called "money."

Prevent war and usher in the voluntary society.

Good ideas there.

But how do I keep my botcoin laptop from being grabbed?

There are many dumbshit economists making money, on complexity.

But the people seek simplicity. And yet, the COTUS says we should be secure in our papers. But how shall we modify the COTUS to a paperless society created by digital dorks?

As I have said, we need better COTUS amendments. I think a bakers dozen good ones, written by the people, at Superjury(tm), would be a good start.

Nice to see some young people recognizing the lie and taking up the cause.

Here we have Alec Scheer saying "not federal, no reserve"
[link to www.youtube.com]

Alexandra Pelosi video:

March 23, 2012; 7.7 minutes

[link to www.youtube.com]

"70 billion in the welfare budget; 700 billion in the warfare budget"

And the winner is... Singapore where neither welfare nor warfare is budgeted.

Start a movement

Hear hear! Very well explained!:-)

In regards to written law, I also believe that it is a flaw in default to assign laws for the future time and generations.
Faulty outdated laws become the foundations for our societies. There is this intense trust in past truths, beliefs and lies; that everything created based on this trust, may be built on faulty conditions and 'absolutes'.

In theory, no man made law can be made with the guarantee to improve the lives of future generations. Is simply arrogant to believe that on can controlled the course of the world by laws. It has indeed 'worked' for a long time, especially for the ones with power and knowledge in how to exploit other humans and their trust for the past.

The world is not absolute, therefore we as a speciece is as well not absolute and can not be controlled by absolute laws, unless manipulated of course.

Let's build a new free quantum router, so that everyone can communicate in real time for free with 'everyone'. People sharing love, instead of being leached upon by filthy rich slobs.

All the best for the future Love & Peace

The word republic does not necessarily mean a republican form of government.


Let’s see: Along with the present Pseudo-republican/”democratic” hybrid form of government proclaimed to the people by the many public “servant” and paid-political pundits and used perhaps to some degree when it suits them,

along with the Communist form of government applied to the us citizens (see the several websites stating how many agencies and predominant activities of the composite “government” are operating on the 10 planks of the Communist Manifesto)

and the ever increasing totalitarian control and domination which is being exercised upon “we the actual people” with the dulocratic form of government being exercised by all these petty dictator “public servants” in every level of government in this country upon us, federal, state, county, and city levels—don’t believe me, go find out for yourself when any police officer stops you for anything, in dealings with any building inspector in this country if you even try to put up a greenhouse in your backyard—defining it as a “permanent structure”,

and the kleptocracy exercised by the bureaucrats in every level of government in this country to plunder the people of this country and the public treasury, all the while complaining they don’t have enough money and ever need ever more of our very lifeblood and that of our children for several generations down from us—

to give to the pentagon and us military contractors which spends over twice the next largest military budget of any other country on this planet (source—the Veterans For Peace website), and to give to foreign nations—of which Israel receives twice that over any other country in the world (source—a talk given by Noam Chomsky), and the many other ways of corporate and foreign nations welfare bleeding us dry.

I’m sure a relatively short search would turn up other forms of “governance” being imposed upon us alongside the publicly-proscribed version by our “elected representatives” and those other individuals they are in federal bankruptcy receivership to since 1933 and really direct us gov policy. What form of government would that be? What’s the proper term for puppet governance?


In Sacramento, California there are two governors’ offices: one is the constitutional office which is roped-off like a museum and never used as it is vacated and that form of governance is shelved since about 1879, and the other is the one Jerry Brown sits in again for the statutory/etc. form of "governance” being exercised upon us at this time.


And with the largest propaganda industry ever created and paid-by-us working against us and almost all public media now consolidated into the hands of 5 uber media corporations , and this as-deeply-as-possible entrenched parasite class of public “servants” willing to defend from us their source of sustenance which comes from us, and the black gov already operating martial law upon us and ready to do so much harder at any slight opportunity, how exactly are we supposed to “alter or abolish any government destructive to the people’s God given rights”? Ask the foxes to willingly leave the public henhouse and hogtrough? Vote them out of office? Protests, such as the co-opted Occupy movement?

You need to join to read this message which was posted here: [link to groups.yahoo.com] February 21, 2013