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federal reserve banking system

 
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 857058
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02/11/2010 11:18 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
What difference does it make - concerning freedom - whether it is supposedly privately or publicly 'owned'?

(Note: I'm using 'private(ly)' as it is being used in this thread.)

Either way, as long as a money system is enforced upon a population at the barrel of a gun - with violence - the people living under the system can't be free.

The only way for a monetary/currency system to be free is if the people can voluntarily choose to use, or not use, any particular system.

If the problem is that it is 'privately' owned, does that mean the solution is to make it publicly (read government) owned? (Didn't it start off that way? Meaning 'publicly' owned failed?)

In that case - government owned - it would still be forced upon you with violence and you would still not be free of it.



If you understand the true nature of the Federal Reserve, the Corporate United States Government, and yourself, you will understand that it is not forced upon you at all. It's entirely contractual.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 883365


This is false.

U.S. Raids Issuer of Ron Paul Coins
By JOSEPH GOLDSTEIN, Staff Reporter of the Sun | November 16, 2007
[link to www.nysun.com]

Government Raids and Seizures- How Safe Is Your Gold?
Commodities / Gold & Silver Jun 06, 2008 - 01:48 PM
Minyan "SC" is concerned about gold in safe deposit boxes. Just how safe is it? "SC" asks:
There is a disturbing comment by Jim Sinclair about safe deposit boxes in Britain not being so safe from the prying eyes of the government.
The article to which "SC" is referring is Safety deposit box raids yield £1bn of drugs, cash and guns .
Police have seized a potential £1 billion “treasure trove” of cash, drugs and guns in an unprecedented raid on concrete vaults holding 7,000 safety deposit boxes.
[link to www.marketoracle.co.uk]

1933 Gold Confiscation
Franklin Delano Roosevelt was inaugurated during the depths of The Great Depression. ... A history of gold confiscation and what it means for today's gold ...
[link to www.blanchardonline.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 857058
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02/11/2010 11:27 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
It was the government who handed that power over to the Fed. It is the government that enforces the Fed's policies. It's the government that grants corporations special powers - and et cetera.




which government are you talking about? The United States of America Government in its Original Jurisdiction is empty -- there's no one in the president's office, there's no one seated in the house of representatives, there's no one sitting on supreme court.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 883365


Past and present government. The state.

"A government is a group of individuals within a geographical area who retain a monopolistic moral and legal right to initiate force."

That's the definition I am using. Surely you won't claim this doesn't exist.

However, the Corporate United States, which was originally created by the Original Jurisdiction United States of America did create a relationship which gave many priveleges and abilities to the Fed.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 883365


Point being, regardless of how far back you want to go, the government failed to defend liberty. (Government defending liberty is a contradiction anyway.)

Governments and corporations all derive their power from your powers. They cannot have any more than you or I have as individuals. As Sovereign individuals, we have a lot of abilities, rights and freedoms -- one of those very awesome is the power to contract.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 883365


So if I grant them no power - which I don't - all of their power is gone? What a silly claim.

They will still have their power regardless of what I personally do. Even if I fought back and went down fighting and was killed, they would still have their power.

256: Blaming the Citizens for the State
Does 'eternal vigilance in the defense of liberty' ever work?
[link to www.freedomainradio.com]
[link to castroller.com]

,.,.,.,.,.,.,.,.

The Anatomy of the State

[link to www.lewrockwell.com]

If "we are the government," then anything a government does to an individual is not only just and untyrannical but also "voluntary" on the part of the individual concerned. If the government has incurred a huge public debt which must be paid by taxing one group for the benefit of another, this reality of burden is obscured by saying that "we owe it to ourselves"; if the government conscripts a man, or throws him into jail for dissident opinion, then he is "doing it to himself" and, therefore, nothing untoward has occurred.

Under this reasoning, any Jews murdered by the Nazi government were not murdered; instead, they must have "committed suicide," since they were the government (which was democratically chosen), and, therefore, anything the government did to them was voluntary on their part. One would not think it necessary to belabor this point, and yet the overwhelming bulk of the people hold this fallacy to a greater or lesser degree.

We must, therefore, emphasize that "we" are not the government; the government is not "us." The government does not in any accurate sense "represent" the majority of the people.[1] But, even if it did, even if 70 percent of the people decided to murder the remaining 30 percent, this would still be murder and would not be voluntary suicide on the part of the slaughtered minority.[2] No organicist metaphor, no irrelevant bromide that "we are all part of one another," must be permitted to obscure this basic fact.

[link to www.lewrockwell.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 11:31 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
America does indeed require educated people and to near the truth. Unfortunately the OP is neither educated nor truthful.

The Fed is not privately owned. It was created by congress and the chairman is approved by the Senate and any Fed profits are turned over to the Treasury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888285


What about the member banks profits? Are they returned? What about member bank bailouts? The Fed members make their money by manipulating monetary policy through the Federal Reserve System.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 11:59 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Hey guys great thread. I have been studying the Federal Reserve system for a while now. I began with the Creature from Jekyll Island by Ed Griffin which gives a good historical perspective of the creation of the banking cartel at Jekyll Island.

Then I moved on to Murray Rothbard who also gives a good historical background but more theoretical in relation to bailment law, etc.

To this point I think I have discovered a few things:

1) The Fed is a government sponsored cartel as all central banks are, which is allowed to purchase and then sell government securities in order to generate credit in the overall monetary system. They have the sole power of currency issuance, meaning when they write a check of XX amount of dollars they do not need to actually have those dollars on reserve, they "create" the new currency. This is necessary since all money has been created out of debt, that debt requires interest payments, the current amount of money in existence is not sufficient to make the interest payments therefore it is necessary to create new money to make the payments which then creates new debt, wash rinse repeat.

2) Although the Fed returns interest paid on sovereign debt back to the Treasury it is actually a private corporation since it disburses stock dividends to member banks. There are preferential stock owners, those who can vote on policy and non preferential stock owners those who cannot vote on policy. I think the usual stock dividend for non preferential stock is 6%. However this dividend is really a very small sum or "profit" for the member banks when one considers the amount of money they can make from fractional reserve banking or making loans in the general economy while only holding a fraction of the amount of those outstanding loans on reserve at the central bank.

3) The Fed's operations are secret, their books are sealed there has never been a complete financial audit of the Federal Reserve since its inception (that I know of). Therefore there is a lot of speculation among authors as to how money is actually "created out of thin air". However when one looks at the basic fact of interest on debt and the fact that interest needs to be serviced and that the current amount of actual currency in the economy is less than the maturity value of all loans, one has to realize that somehow they do "create money out of thin air" or else the system wouldn't work.

4) Antal Fekete has the process of irredeemable currency and its creation down cold. To this point no one is accepting his theory because overall it is deflationary in terms of the "end game" and the Austrian School of Economics adheres to a hyper inflationary "end game". His most recent article on how the debt is monetized by bond speculators is an absolute read for ppl who are curious as to how the Fed actually does it, and how we are stuck in a never ending cycle of lower and lower interest rates, which in turn destroy the existing capital in the system i.e. a deflationary "end game" collapse of all "fiat" or "irredeemable" currencies.

Here are some links I have found regarding my research.

Murray Rothbard, free ebook, on Case Against the Fed: [link to mises.org]

The Money Matrix and stock dividends and various Fed tools: [link to www.nolanchart.com]

Antal Fekete's recent article on Bond Speculators who front-run the treasury bond auctions (must read):
[link to www.financialsense.com]
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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02/11/2010 12:03 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
govern=control


ment or mente'=mind
~*i love you*~
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 888427
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02/11/2010 12:52 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Lots of people cutting and pasting lots of words they clearly don't understand. Buy I guess it makes them feel "knowledgable"

To the guy/gal on page One of this thread making some hoopla about "fiscal agent". Clearly you don't understand the difference between principal and agent. Being an agent confers NO ownership rights.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 01:11 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Here we get to the heart of the confusion. Someone above asserts that the fed is......

"actually a private corporation since it disburses stock dividends to member banks."

when a bank becomes a member of the federal reserve system they have to pony up a deposit. Think of it as a membership fee. They get paid interest on that money. They also get "Stock". But the stock is non tradable and nonvoting and specifically confers no ownership rights. But people the word stock and immediately think of private ownership. It just isn't so.

For example. I belong to a beach club. To join I had to post a deposit. I got issued a certificate of membership. I get paid interest on my deposit every year. But I don't "own" the beach club.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 01:50 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Here we get to the heart of the confusion. Someone above asserts that the fed is......

"actually a private corporation since it disburses stock dividends to member banks."

when a bank becomes a member of the federal reserve system they have to pony up a deposit. Think of it as a membership fee. They get paid interest on that money. They also get "Stock". But the stock is non tradable and nonvoting and specifically confers no ownership rights. But people the word stock and immediately think of private ownership. It just isn't so.

For example. I belong to a beach club. To join I had to post a deposit. I got issued a certificate of membership. I get paid interest on my deposit every year. But I don't "own" the beach club.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888427


The difference between "private" and "public" control is based upon transparency or secrecy. The "fed" is PRIVATE.

Another difference between "private" and "public" control is based upon WHO makes the operating decisions. "Public" control by logic means the citizenry choose the direction and policies; "private" means that the Public has no voice or sway in any matters.

The "federal reserve banks" are NOT PUBLICALLY CONTROLLED and therefore are PRIVATE. End of story.

Furthermore, the 16th Amendment was NEVER RATIFIED BY 2/3RDS OF THE STATES and is ILLEGAL.

And FUTHERMORE, the actions of the "federal reserve" in printing currency and dictating monetary and fiscal policy for and to the government of the people of the united states of America (and not the corporation known as the US, Inc.) is ILLEGAL according to the United States Constitution.

ONLY CONGRESS has the right to issue currency and set policy.

Through the "no child left behind act" which is CODE for the "dumbing down of America" most people do not have any idea what the US Constitution REALLY says. It's not hard to understand folks! Get a copy and a Dictionary and READ IT!!

Even Thomas Jefferson who was a Mason knew that handing over control of the monetary system to private individuals would create the end of the United States as he, and his fellow drafters of the Constitution had intended:

""We must not let our rulers load us with perpetual debt.
We must make our election between economy and liberty
or profusion and servitude.
If we run into such debt, as that we must be taxed in our meat and
in our drink, in our necessaries and our comforts, in our labors and
our amusements, for our calling and our creeds...
[we will] have no time to think,
no means of calling our miss-managers to account
but be glad to obtain subsistence by hiring ourselves
to rivet their chains on the necks of our fellow-sufferers...
And this is the tendency of all human governments.
A departure from principle in one instance
becomes a precedent for [another ]...
till the bulk of society is reduced to be mere automatons of misery...
And the fore-horse of this frightful team is public debt.
Taxation follows that, and in its train wretchedness and oppression." July 1816
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 01:58 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
What a bunch of Asshats!!!

The Fed is NOT privately owned!

The member banks in the federal reserve system do not own the Fed just as the registered members of GLP do not own the GLP website.

Most of the reason we are in the financial shit we are in is that most folks haven't a clue about economics and finance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888285

bsflagYou are an uneducated fool.Leave now.Thanks.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:25 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
"The difference between "private" and "public" control is based upon transparency or secrecy. The "fed" is PRIVATE.

The minutes of Fed meetings are in fact public and fed chairmen frequently testify before congress

Another difference between "private" and "public" control is based upon WHO makes the operating decisions. "Public" control by logic means the citizenry choose the direction and policies; "private" means that the Public has no voice or sway in any matters.

@ Pardon me for pointing it out, but here in America we have Representative democracy. The public does not have a direct voice in ANY government decisions. The chairman of the fed is appointed by the publics represantive in the executive branch - the president and approved by the publics elected representatives in the Senate

The "federal reserve banks" are NOT PUBLICALLY CONTROLLED and therefore are PRIVATE. End of story.

@ The federal reserve banks are controlled by the folks designated by the president and congress. Hence not private.

Furthermore, the 16th Amendment was NEVER RATIFIED BY 2/3RDS OF THE STATES and is ILLEGAL.

@ The 16th amendment is the income tax and has nothing to do with the fed

And FUTHERMORE, the actions of the "federal reserve" in printing currency and dictating monetary and fiscal policy for and to the government of

@ The Constitution delegated to the Congress the right to coin money and control the value thereof. It makes no reference as to HOW congress is to do that. So unless you think congresspeople should spend part of their day smelting gold and physically producing coins, it is to be presumed that congress will, in turn, delegate that function. It met it's constitutional mandate by creating the Fed
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:43 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
You all are missing the beauty in all of this!! The entire system can only remain stable if it is in growth. So once the entire planet has been "consumed" by mega-capitalism, the system will inevitably collapse.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:48 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
"The difference between "private" and "public" control is based upon transparency or secrecy. The "fed" is PRIVATE.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888526


Private.. public.. whatever you want to name it; it is tyranny and that should be the issue.

The Myth of the Free Market: Fractional Banking and Private Currencies

[link to www.youtube.com]
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:52 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
You all are missing the beauty in all of this!! The entire system can only remain stable if it is in growth. So once the entire planet has been "consumed" by mega-capitalism, the system will inevitably collapse.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 734082


Which system is mega-capitalist? Or even just plain old capitalist? Surely you don't mean the U.S., as that would mean you're not even aware of what the word means.
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:52 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Actually if it is public and duly constituted it is not tyranny. Doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea
Anonymous Coward
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02/11/2010 02:57 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Actually if it is public and duly constituted it is not tyranny. Doesn't mean it is necessarily a good idea
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888544


It depends on what you mean by 'public'. If by 'public' you mean government-imposed, then yes it would be tyrannical. I'm not sure what you mean by "duly constituted," either.
*Shaun* (OP)

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02/16/2010 10:06 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
yoda
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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02/17/2010 10:39 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
if this website really cared about our future it would pin threads on abolishing the fed reserve.
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

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02/22/2010 10:59 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
pin please...lol
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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02/26/2010 03:44 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
things are getting interesting huh...

when will the material world fall?
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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02/28/2010 08:53 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
last bump, this is the last thread on my created thread list and so i wont be able to get back to it so easily..

i'm gonna be making a new thread..

would it be possible to increase the size of our created thread list?
~*i love you*~
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2010 09:06 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
What a bunch of Asshats!!!

The Fed is NOT privately owned!

The member banks in the federal reserve system do not own the Fed just as the registered members of GLP do not own the GLP website.

Most of the reason we are in the financial shit we are in is that most folks haven't a clue about economics and finance.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888285


Moron
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2010 11:55 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
America does indeed require educated people and to near the truth. Unfortunately the OP is neither educated nor truthful.

The Fed is not privately owned. It was created by congress and the chairman is approved by the Senate and any Fed profits are turned over to the Treasury.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 888285



rofl

Hahahahahahaha Oh goddamn that's the funniest thing I've heard all day!







antibs
Anonymous Coward
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02/28/2010 12:04 PM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Now that we know the Federal Reserve is a privately owned, for-profit corporation, a natural question would be: who OWNS this company? Peter Kershaw provides the answer in "Economic Solutions" where he lists the ten primary shareholders in the Federal Reserve banking system.

1) The Rothschild Family - London 2) The Rothschild Family - Berlin 3) The Lazard Brothers - Paris 4) Israel Seiff - Italy 5) Kuhn-Loeb Company - Germany 6) The Warburgs - Amsterdam 7) The Warburgs - Hamburg 8) Lehman Brothers - New York 9) Goldman & Sachs - New York 10) The Rockefeller Family - New York
Now I don't know about you, but something is terribly wrong with this situation. Namely, don't we live in AMERICA? If so, why are seven of the top ten stockholders located in FOREIGN countries? That's 70%! To further convey how screwed-up this system is, Jim Marrs provides the following data in his phenomenal book, "Rule By Secrecy.
" He says that the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, which undeniably controls the other eleven Federal Reserve branches, is essentially controlled by two financial institutions:
1) Chase-Manhattan (controlled by the Rockefellers) - 6,389,445 shares - 32.
3%
2) Citbank - 4,051,851 shares - 20.
5%
Thus, these two entities control nearly 53% of the New York Federal Reserve Bank. Doesn't that boggle your mind? Now, considering how many trillions of dollars are involved here, and how the bankers are WAY above our "selected" officials in Washington, D.C., do you think the above-listed banks and families have an inordinate amount of say-so in how our country is being run? The answer is blindingly apparent.

Where does the money come from?
We all know that the Federal Reserve CORPORATION prints money - then loans it, at interest, to our government. But wait until you see what a total scam this process is. But before we get to the meat of this issue, let's remember one thing about the very essence of banking - primarily that money should have some type of standard upon which its value is based. In the case of America, we operate on what is called a "gold standard" (i.e. our money is backed by gold).

So, with that in mind, let's look at how money is actually created, and at what cost. If the Federal Reserve wants to print 1,000 one-hundred ($100) bills, their total cost for ink, paper, plates, labor, etc. would be approximately $23.00 (according to Davvy Kidd in "Why A Bankrupt America"). Now, if you do the math, the total cost of 10,000 bills would be $230.00 ($.023 x 10,000). But, and here's the catch - 10,000 $100 bills equals $1,000,000! So, the Federal Reserve can "create" a million dollars, then LEND it to the U.S. Government (with interest) for a total cost of $230.
00! That's not a bad deal, huh!
The banking industry calls this process "seignorage." I call it outright THEFT. Why? Well, regardless of the immense profit margin ($1,000,000 for $230), plus the huge interest payments, our government then needs to STEAL the American people's money to payoff their debts via a Mob-like agency called the IRS. So the bankers steal from the government, then the government turns around and steals from the people. I'm no genius, but who do you think is getting screwed in this process? US - the people at the bottom rung of the ladder.

What's worse is that - now catch your breath - there's NO MORE gold left in Fort Knox! It's all gone. In other words, the GOLD STANDARD that our financial system was based upon is now an illusion. We can't convert our money into gold --- only other currency. The entire underlying basis for our money is now a lie - a sham. The Federal Reserve has become so arrogant that they've become a literal MONEY MAKING MACHINE, creating currency out of thin air! So that's where the Fed gets their money - they literally make it, then lend it to us so they can make even MORE money off of it.

Money As A Religion
The above-detailed process has become so ridiculous that William Grieder, former assistant managing editor of the Washington Post, wrote a book in 1987 entitled, "Secrets of the Temple: How the Federal Reserve Runs the Country" that details how the Controllers have conditioned us to accept this absurd situation.

To modern minds," he writes, "it seemed bizarre to think of the Federal Reserve as a religious institution. Yet the conspiracy theorists, in their own demented way, were on to something real and significant. The Fed did also function in the realm of religion. Its mysterious powers of money creation, inherited from priestly forebears, shielded a complex bundle of social and psychological meanings. With its own form of secret incantation, the Federal Reserve presided over awesome social ritual, transactions so powerful and frightening they seemed to lie beyond common understanding.
"
Mr. Grieder continues, "Above all, money was a function of faith. It required implicit and universal social consent that was indeed mysterious. To create money and use it, each one must believe, and everyone must believe. Only then did worthless pieces of paper take on value.
"
Do you get it? MONEY is an ILLUSION! Why? Because the gold standard upon which our money is supposed to be based has been eliminated. There's no more gold in Fort Knox. It's all GONE! Now, money really IS only paper!!! In the past, money was supposed to represent something of tangible value.
Now it's simply paper!
Taken one step further, many of us don't even use paper money any more! Why? Well, here's a scenario. Many places of employment directly deposit their employee's paychecks into the bank. Once the money is there, when bill time comes around, the person in question can write out a stack of checks to pay them. Plus, when they need gasoline they use a credit card; and groceries a debit card. If this person goes out for dinner on Friday night, they can charge the tab on their diner's card. But what about the tip? They simply scribble in the amount at the bottom of the check. So far, the person hasn't spent a single dollar bill. Plus, if you bring electronic banking into the picture, we've virtually eliminated the use for money.
And, God forbid, what happens when encoded microchips are implanted into the backs of our hand?
In essence, money has become nothing more than an illusion - an electronic figure or amount on a computer screen. That's it! As time goes on, we have an increasing tendency toward being sucked into this Wizard of Oz vortex of unreality. Think about it. Americans as a whole are carrying more personal debt than in any other time in history. Plus our government keeps going further and further into the hole, with no hope of ever crawling out. But we have less and less actual MONEY! We're being enslaved by the debt of electronic blips on a computer screen! And 70% of the banks that control this debt via the Federal Reserve exist in foreign countries! What in God's name is going on? As author William Bramley says, "The result of this whole system is MASSIVE debt at every level of society.
"
We're getting screwed in a sickening way, folks, and the people doing it are demented magician-priests that use the ILLUSION of money as their control device. And I hate to say it, but if we allow things to keep going as they are, the situation will only get worse. Our only hope ... ONLY HOPE ... is to immediately take drastic action and remedy this crime.




let the Truth be known..

let's abolish the federal reserve, please

how can we do it?
 Quoting: *Shaun*

Allow me........ bsflag
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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03/04/2010 09:25 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Major Government, Military Corruption [link to www.wanttoknow.info]
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

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03/15/2010 09:18 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
bump
~*i love you*~
*Shaun* (OP)

User ID: 567273
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03/15/2010 09:34 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
fucking permanent pin this fucker until the shit is abolished.
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*Shaun* (OP)

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03/18/2010 08:30 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
all of you patriots raging against healthcare and other government shit should be raging against the fed...


don't take your eye off the ball.
~*i love you*~
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2010 08:34 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
The fed is the head of the beast. Kill the head, the body dies. Without an unlimited, free supply of money, the government has to resort to Constitutional spending (i.e. taxing for every dime they spend). This will of course cause MAJOR uproars and force them to STOP SPENDING!

Stop the fed = stop wars, gov. healthcare, handouts, bailouts, foreign aid.
Anonymous Coward
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03/18/2010 10:07 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
The fed is the head of the beast. Kill the head, the body dies. Without an unlimited, free supply of money, the government has to resort to Constitutional spending (i.e. taxing for every dime they spend). This will of course cause MAJOR uproars and force them to STOP SPENDING!

Stop the fed = stop wars, gov. healthcare, handouts, bailouts, foreign aid.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 916060

The Original US Constitution fully grants Congress essentially to do the same thing, create Money out of thin air (at least for internal use).

Article 1, Section 8
The Congress shall have Power To ... To borrow money on the credit of the United States on the credit of the United States; ... To coin Money, regulate the Value thereof, and of foreign Coin, and fix the Standard of Weights and Measures; ... To provide for the Punishment of counterfeiting the Securities and current Coin of the United States;


The "Power to coin Money" by and of itself does not define in the least what material or substance is to used as "Money".

Does Money = Currency? It sure does whether that currency be gold coin or peanuts or sea shells. If I will not accept your currency, whether metal or paper or wood, it is the same as not acccepting your money.

To Coin it is to define the weight, size, and purity of the substance used and then to impress (stamp) some 'design' on it, some image of graphic design, whether simple or complex.

When a US Note or a Federal Reserve System Note is counterfeited the act is Punished as a "counterfeiting of the current Coin of the United States. " Showing that Coin need not be Metal, it can be Paper, Plastic, even Wood.

In the Context of the Original 1789 US Constitution: it is perfectly legal for Congress to "deem" (by up/down vote)any substance to be used for "coining" as currency, as money. E.g., plastic, paper, wood, not necessarily even a precious metal, it could choose to use Plutonium 239 as money. As far as US Federal (Central Government) is concerned, Constitutionally speaking its coin does not have to be only gold or silver, it can be anything. It is the States that are not to make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts. The Federal Government (Central) and the People can use anything they wish as a Tender for Payments of debts. The people, individually among themselves, could use any substance as material for coin and as Tender. -- In the Context of the Original 1789 Constitution.

In that context, the US Congress (1790) was in the positon to Create Money, and to create as much money as they felt necessary for the some functioning of the Union's economy.

So, I would hold that it is a straw-man to state that "Without an unlimited, free supply of money -- created by the FRS -- the government has to resort to Constitutional spending (i.e. taxing for every dime they spend)."

It is also a straw-man to think that the only way the Government can get money is by taxation, there are at least four other ways 1.) create it, 2.) from profits on deals it makes with other governments, 3.) from free will donations to it. 4.) borrow it (yes, that does have to be paid back).

These five ways constitute US Constitutional ways to come up with the money for the US Gov's spending.

There is one quesiton though and that is, Is there any substance known to man that is not limited in quantity on Planet Earth? The entire Earth has only so much mass and hence has a limited quantity of substance. (yes, one could argue that its mass is slowly increasing/decreasing, but that not really my point).

Just testing out my understanding here -- Anyone else reaching a similar conclusion?
Anonymous Coward
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United States
03/18/2010 10:13 AM
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Re: federal reserve banking system
Deep & LONG history. It's the Plan, Stan. Fight the Good Fight.