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Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance

 
Counter Intel
User ID: 891172
United Kingdom
02/14/2010 03:41 PM
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Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Anybody have any experience spoofing or fooling airbourne Thermal imaging THEMIS or FLIR systems.
Heat signatures in an urban environment versus woodlands.
Is there any clothing or material like a mylar type of substance to reflect heat away from the sensors or a type of clothing which thermally breaks up the outline of a human body a thermal camoflage that reduces your heat signature or mimics a natural plant or tree*
Without movement in an ideal world it would thermally make you look like something other than a human
Anyone have any info or ideas?
I have a ski jacket lined with mylar now which reflects heat back to the body but it will still make me glow like a candle to sensors.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 331367
Austria
02/14/2010 03:55 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
I work with calibrated FLIR equipment in the 14000 euro range a piece that measures down to centigrade differences and makes really nice images.

Sorry.

If your enemy uses FLIR you are f..

I think the mil equipment is at least that good or even better.

Solutions:

"Blending in", block thermal emission or "do not be there"
malu

User ID: 800077
United States
02/14/2010 04:08 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
i have read that "space blankets" worn over you help blend you in, of course that depends on the temperature differential between you and the environment

there was a suit that was made a few years back, trying to think of the name of it, but it was advertised to beat many detection systems, but those ads have disappeared

take a look at this:

[link to iamgodinhell.blogspot.com]
"By way of deception, thou shalt do war."

Israel's Mossad

"The truth shall set you free."

U.S. Central Intelligence Agency Motto
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 891172
United Kingdom
02/14/2010 04:19 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
i have read that "space blankets" worn over you help blend you in, of course that depends on the temperature differential between you and the environment

there was a suit that was made a few years back, trying to think of the name of it, but it was advertised to beat many detection systems, but those ads have disappeared

take a look at this:

[link to iamgodinhell.blogspot.com]
 Quoting: malu


I have a ski jacket lined with mylar very light and very warm
it will make me a beacon in the night I am pretty certain
Seems to me a jacket that can regulate the heat signature to mimic a tree or a plant at least break up your natural outline would be a usefull thing.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 891172
United Kingdom
02/14/2010 04:25 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
I work with calibrated FLIR equipment in the 14000 euro range a piece that measures down to centigrade differences and makes really nice images.

Sorry.

If your enemy uses FLIR you are f..

I think the mil equipment is at least that good or even better.

Solutions:

"Blending in", block thermal emission or "do not be there"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 331367


One other note, [lining a ghillie suit with] mylar is a bad idea, a Ghillie suit is hot enough, adding mylar will have you broiling in your own juices in five minutes if you cover yourself in it and that's the only way to disguise your heat signature enough to matter. If you are worried about FLIR or other thermal detection, find an olive drab space-blanket or, even better, a "combat casualty blanket" which is a heavy padded version of a space-blanket, and convert it into a cover for you position.- Warhawke
baldrishi
User ID: 581357
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02/14/2010 04:40 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
flir can be defeated with IR high out put bulbs that will 'blind' the receiving tube. These would have to be aimed at the FLIR, but that is usually not too hard. The best way to do this is to use the battery powered, high output halogen style IR flashlights. These can have devastating effects on all kinds of digital camera receiving arrays. The IR light, if of a high enough intensity may blind the FLIR permanently or for over 5 minutes (time it takes the ccd to clear and recharge).


another approach is steam, or hot, moist air. Blown out and about, the human can wander through the fog with more immunity from being seen. Not that the FLIR would not pick it up, but rather that the scatter effect of the water particles, especially if warmer than normal atmosphere, will also obscure any actual positions.
Anonymous Coward (OP)
User ID: 891172
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02/14/2010 04:51 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
flir can be defeated with IR high out put bulbs that will 'blind' the receiving tube. These would have to be aimed at the FLIR, but that is usually not too hard. The best way to do this is to use the battery powered, high output halogen style IR flashlights. These can have devastating effects on all kinds of digital camera receiving arrays. The IR light, if of a high enough intensity may blind the FLIR permanently or for over 5 minutes (time it takes the ccd to clear and recharge).


another approach is steam, or hot, moist air. Blown out and about, the human can wander through the fog with more immunity from being seen. Not that the FLIR would not pick it up, but rather that the scatter effect of the water particles, especially if warmer than normal atmosphere, will also obscure any actual positions.
 Quoting: baldrishi 581357


Moisture and dust are cited in the wired article,
active jamming as in your suggestion would require exposing yourself via your beam not an optimal solution.
Decoy or causing sensor bloom by providing an overwhelming heatsource may or may not work depending on the software limiting the protection of the sensor
I am interested in a passive solution to overhead surveillance in an urban environment. Pattern matching thermal clothing which will thermally break up the heat image of the human body to mimic something else..Plant or animal perhaps
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 756016
United States
02/14/2010 05:01 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Try, Icy Hot

Messes it all up 1rof1
Anonymous Coward (OP)
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02/14/2010 05:01 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
news in the INCOMING blog as well as update the Show Archives as we can.

« Israeli Organ Harvesting News
Thoughts about Flinching »
Infrared Imaging Countermeasures

from SurvivalBlog

There are several proven, low cost techniques that can be used against thermal/infrared imagers. But none of them last an extended period of time. While they are not fool-proof they certainly do work well enough to frustrate the US military in Afghanistan.

The first method being used is for men to lay down in a small depression in the ground and cover themselves with a heavy wool blanket every time they hear an engine overhead — be it a helicopter or the lawn-mower whine of a drone. This technique is well documented based on visual surveillance of groups of Afghans. All they did was to prop up the edges of the blanket with twigs to let their body heat escape around the edges of the blanket. This disrupts the pattern of the human body such that there is a warm spot but it does not look anything like a person.

A step up from this is to use one of the Space Blankets available on the market to do the same thing. They reflect heat right? If you have one of the heavier ones laminated to a ground cloth they can be used over and over again. In fact there is a poncho version of the space blanket that is very effective for this purpose even if you are moving about.

For shelter areas you can use mass (think of adobe houses) to diffuse the heat signature such that while the whole house will glow a bit it is impossible to see inside the house. Similar methods can be used in the field. For example, when digging a fighting position always use overhead cover if possible and pack the overhead cover with dirt or stones. This, combined with the use of blankets or tarps to screen the “windows” will render most thermal imagers unable to track you.

Finally there is always deception. In one exercise with a law enforcement team, we created a large number of “false” positives for them to track using small candles and Mylar balloons. Since aluminumized Mylar is the primary component in the space blankets, if you direct a small heat source onto the exterior surface, the whole surface will reflect the heat source and appear to be a large heat signature. (The aluminum can also be used to fool radar — the balloons can be strung in a line so many feet or inches apart — and as long as that distance apart is close to the wavelength of the radar beam the balloons appear to be one large solid target. I found this out many years ago when I was living very close to the largest helicopter base in the Argentine army just outside Rafael Castillo. We could float a string of balloons and get an almost immediate response …)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 891009
United States
02/14/2010 05:16 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
A few burning tires or if you have time to pre-prepare some tar pots
TuNarmi

User ID: 771533
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02/14/2010 05:20 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Good thread op.
Drunken Blacksmith NLI
User ID: 883418
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02/14/2010 06:00 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
The best low cost method i've heard of so far consists of a 3 layered system made up of a section of thermal refractive camo netting over a heavy weight 100% wool blanket over a heavy quilted Mylar survival blanket....all 3 of these items loosely tack sewn together in a random pattern.
The mylar blanket blocks most of your body heat...the thick wool blanket takes on the same temp as the surroundings...and the camo netting further disrupts the thermal sig.
The original article said to cut irregular shapes or scalloping into the edge of the layered system to further conceal the shape.
A set of looped handles for hands and neck allow this system to be used as a portable shelter by night and a fine Ghillie by day.
The system was described as 8x8' and the user was positioned diagonally.
I believe combining this system with a shallow body pit dug next to a large heat retaining boulder would pretty much defeat FLIR and would let you sleep warm and cozy all night long...fresh, rested and ready for the next days operations.

Drunken Blacksmith
peace
PS...if your feet stick out they might be mistaken for rabbits...or whatever indigenous rodents may be present in your area cool2
Anonymous Coward
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08/01/2011 11:44 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
yoda
Least Servant

User ID: 1379655
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08/01/2011 11:46 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
You need anti-fire.
:romaflag:
Not enough to fight, too many to die.
Anonymous Coward
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United States
04/18/2012 05:30 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12378951
United States
04/18/2012 05:50 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Did an ftx in the army and we fooled an apache with flir by digging a foxhole, placing 4 tent stakes at the corners at ground level, and suspending a space blanket from the stakes to form a roof. Cover the space blanket with wet leaves and crawl into your foxhole.

The idea wont protect your house but it works for one or two guys in a field environment.
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 8529763
United States
04/18/2012 05:52 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
This. It even works against aliens with FLIR.

[link to lionelsnotes.files.wordpress.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1548115
United States
06/06/2012 06:05 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
This. It even works against aliens with FLIR.

[link to lionelsnotes.files.wordpress.com]
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 8529763


ROFLMAO
rockon
Anonymous Coward
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06/06/2012 06:10 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Just suicide and your heat signature goes away soon enough.

If you are in hurry suicide in a tub of ice
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 1018748
United States
06/06/2012 06:12 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
I work with calibrated FLIR equipment in the 14000 euro range a piece that measures down to centigrade differences and makes really nice images.

Sorry.

If your enemy uses FLIR you are f..

I think the mil equipment is at least that good or even better.

Solutions:

"Blending in", block thermal emission or "do not be there"
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 331367


Or overwhelm the IR system... ;)
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 27113427
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03/10/2013 06:20 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Bump Good info to build on


bump
Anonymous Coward
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03/10/2013 06:27 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
They do make a material that blocks out all attempts to surveil you with infra red etc.

They sell it at hydroponic shops but it's expensive as shit.
El Tiburon

User ID: 28375544
United States
03/10/2013 06:31 PM

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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
I use a FLIR for work...

I have never tried to defeat it. But I can tell you that FLIR works off line of sight and something as simple as a mirror will stop it from reading what is behind it.

My first thought on defeating FLIR after reading this was MYLAR.

As for overwhelming the FLIR... A trained operator can switch modes, and adjust sensitivity on the fly. So I am not sure how well that tactic would work.
Anonymous Coward
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Australia
03/10/2013 06:47 PM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Four can't see through a sheet of ordinary glass which is why TI lenses aren't made of glass. Glass also reflects the heat signature of its surrounds so doesn't appear as a black hole if used in a wooded area. Be a bitch to carry around...
Octave23
User ID: 11510364
Thailand
06/14/2013 10:23 AM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
Apparently polar bear fur is quite effective in masking thermal signature. There has been some research into making synthetics but i'm not sure how effective they have been.
Octave23
User ID: 11510364
Thailand
06/14/2013 10:41 AM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
this seems relivant

DARPA developing electro-optics to detect and track human targets with 3-D imaging

[link to aftermathnews.wordpress.com]
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 12862835
Philippines
06/14/2013 10:58 AM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
co2 blocks ir
Anonymous Coward
User ID: 39159706
United States
06/14/2013 11:23 AM
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Re: Spoofing FLIR or Infrared Surveillance
What a lot of bullshit has been posted.
Any barrier works against Thermal, the question is what works under all the dynamic circumstances of 360 degree battle space and that true answer is nothing works other than prevention of battle from the offing.
Nothing you have or can by will keep you safe against a rogue authority
YOU YANKS want something easy and effective because youre stupid and lazy and want a comfortable ezxcuse and there simply is no such thing

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