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Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?

 
SoldierofYah
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02/25/2010 01:51 PM
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Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
I have been pondering the issue of Saul/Paul for quite some time. I think the evidence is overwhelmingly against Paul being a genuine "apostle."


To just scratch the surface of the evidence against Saul, consider the following:

1. Saul/Paul was NOT one of the original 12 Apostles, and was not the replacement for Judas. The Gospels and Book of Revelation makes clear that there are only 12 apostles. Yet Saul/Paul over and over in his epistles claims to be an "apostle."

2. Saul/Paul's own writings clearly demonstrate that he taught a completely different doctrine than that of Yahshua. Saul taught against keeping the commandments (a doctrine of "salvation by faith and not works"), while Yahshua taught that one must "do the will of the Father" and obey His commandments in order to obtain eternal life.

3. Saul of Tarsus was a top Pharisee in the Sanhedrin who lead the persecution of Yahshua and his followers. Remember what Yahshua said about the "leaven" (doctrine) of the Pharisees? Perhaps Saul's agenda of claiming to be an "apostle" was to infiltrate and destroy Yahshua's teaching from within.

4. Remember that even Yahshua himself warned repeatedly against false prohphets.

Matthew 7:15 "Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves."

Matthew 24:24 "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect."

Matthew 24:4-5 "And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many."



Note that Yahshua says that MANY will be deceived...not just a few.


5. One the most damning evidences against Saul comes from passages in Paul's epistle "2 Timothy" and the book of Revelation.

"This you know, that all those in Asia have turned away from me." 2Timothy 1:15

This would include the Church at Ephesus, which was in "Asia."

Now, turn to Revelation which includes Yahshua speaking to the Church at Ephesus:

Revelation 2;1: "Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;

2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:"



Stop and think about the significance of that. Saul has admitted that all those in Asia, including Ephesus, had rejected him. And then Yahshua praises the Ephesians for rejecting false apostles! Doesn't that include the false apostle Paul?

Last Edited by SoldierofYah on 02/25/2010 04:58 PM
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 01:53 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
A Jewish friend of mine states that Paul purposely set the Sunday date to worship to mislead goy from worshipping G-d in full,
ºº

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02/25/2010 01:53 PM

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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
No.
union

The chariots of God are tens of thousands, and thousands of thousands.
JimmyK
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02/25/2010 01:56 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Greetings;

"Therefore, beloved, since you look for these things, be diligent to be found by Him in peace, spotless and blameless, and regard the patience of our Lord to be salvation; just as also our beloved brother Paul, according to the wisdom given him, wrote to you, as also in all his letters, speaking in them of these things, in which are some things hard to understand, which the untaught and unstable distort, as they do also the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction. You therefore, beloved, knowing this beforehand, be on your guard lest, being carried away by the error of unprincipled men, you fall from your own steadfastness, but grow in the grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To Him be the glory, both now and to the day of eternity. Amen.

This is from Peter concerning Paul. It is pretty clear that Peter considered Paul and Apostle and his writings Scripture.

Regards

JimmyK
SoldierofYah (OP)

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02/25/2010 01:57 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
No.
 Quoting: ºº


How could he even be an "apostle" when he was not one of the original 12, or the replacement for Judas?
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 01:57 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
YES !! From my understanding he was what we would call an "infiltrater" - working for Rome (was a Roman citizen) who had persecuted Christians and was the reason Steven was stoned.

He sensationalized Christ's "miracles" and then bastardized Christ's teachings - especially where women were concerned.

He was an ego-maniac, also. I often wonder if his death was REALLY the way it was written.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 01:59 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Only to those who despise the thought of Christ's Diety. These arguments are old and have been explained before.
But truth never was your agenda, was it?
SoldierofYah (OP)

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02/25/2010 01:59 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
This is from Peter concerning Paul. It is pretty clear that Peter considered Paul and Apostle and his writings Scripture.

Regards

JimmyK
 Quoting: JimmyK 387015


There is actually compelling evidence that Paul actually wrote the books of 1 Peter and 2 Peter.

As evidenced by much of the New Testament, there was actually a bitter feud between Saul/Paul and the REAL 12 Apostles.

Last Edited by SoldierofYah on 02/25/2010 02:00 PM
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02/25/2010 02:01 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Its funny how the false prophets and teachers or believers just love to rail against the written Word of God, the Bible.

They try and try to discredit it but it's survived all of them for hundreds of years.

The written Word is the written Word. You know right off who the false teachers are. You know them by their fruit and their fruit is rotten.

You know them because they try to discredit what is WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

You know that these are the false ones who teach a gospel OTHER THAN what is WRITTEN IN THE BIBLE.

Beware of them. Trust the written Word of God, The Bible.

Trust in Jesus Christ, who is the author of that Bible.

God Bless!!!
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:01 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Fact is, no Paul=no christianity.

See the history of Europe and ask how long a few churches in asia would of lasted.
SoldierofYah (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:03 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Its funny how the false prophets and teachers or believers just love to rail against the written Word of God, the Bible.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882450


How do you decide what is the "Word Of God"?

ie, how do you decide which books to include as "canon" Scripture, and part of the Bible?

Those decisions were made by men -- such as at the council at Nicea...when pagan "convert" to Chritianity Constantine and founder of the Catholic Church and his cronies decided which books to include.

For instance, Catholics include the Apocrypha and other books, while Protestant do not.

Last Edited by SoldierofYah on 02/25/2010 05:00 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
No.


How could he even be an "apostle" when he was not one of the original 12, or the replacement for Judas?
 Quoting: SoldierofYah


He did not replace Judas. Matthias did.

Was Paul a false apostle. Evidently Christ didn't think so.
JimmyK
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02/25/2010 02:04 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
This is from Peter concerning Paul. It is pretty clear that Peter considered Paul and Apostle and his writings Scripture.

Regards

JimmyK


There is actually compelling evidence that Paul actually wrote the books of 1 Peter and 2 Peter.

As evidenced by much of the New Testament, there was actually a bitter feud between Saul/Paul and the REAL 12 Apostles.
 Quoting: SoldierofYah


Greetings,

It is not possible for you to point to any "evidence" in "much of The New Testement" in that you reject MOST of it.

Regards

JimmyK
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Yes. Paul corrupted the teachings of Yeshua (Jesus) and is responsible for many of the false doctrines of mainstream Christianity.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:04 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
ie, how do you decide which books to include as "canon" Scripture, and part of the Bible?

Those decisions were made by men -- such as at the council at Nicea...when pagan "convert" to Chritianity and founder of the Catholic Church and his cronies decided which books to include.
 Quoting: SoldierofYah

Repeat lies till they become truth?
You must be a muslim.
ZTE

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02/25/2010 02:04 PM

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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
There is actually compelling evidence that Paul actually wrote the books of 1 Peter and 2 Peter.

As evidenced by much of the New Testament, there was actually a bitter feud between Saul/Paul and the REAL 12 Apostles.
 Quoting: SoldierofYah



Of course there was. Paul was a Benjamite, and the rest of them were Jews. They always had differences, but they still came together to worship God. Paul focused on spreading the message to the other 10 tribes of Israel, whereas the other apostles focused on the Jews.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
SoldierofYah (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:05 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Was Paul a false apostle. Evidently Christ didn't think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 890566


How's that? Where does Yahshua endorse Saul/Paul as an apostle?
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:06 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Yes, paul is the self proclaimed prophet.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:06 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Yes, paul is the self proclaimed prophet.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 822427

Correction- apostle.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:07 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Its funny how the false prophets and teachers or believers just love to rail against the written Word of God, the Bible.

How do you decide what is the "Word Of God"?

ie, how do you decide which books to include as "canon" Scripture, and part of the Bible?

Those decisions were made by men -- such as at the council at Nicea...when pagan "convert" to Chritianity and founder of the Catholic Church and his cronies decided which books to include.

For instance, Catholics include the Apocrypha and other books, while Protestant do not.
 Quoting: SoldierofYah



It comes down to 1 question and 1 question only.

DO YOU BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS THE SON OF GOD?

IF you do, then you know that Jesus Christ is supreme and He holds ALL POWER as The Father gave unto HIM ALL POWER, for Jesus Christ IS God and Creator.

IF you believe this and it is clear from scripture that Jesus Christ is the one that established and created the Church, you know that Jesus Christ is the FINAL AUTHORITY behind the Church.

Do you really think that the book, the Bible, came about because of what MAN made it to be?

No, The Bible is what it is today because Christ in HIS SUPREME DOMINION AND POWER WILLED IT TO BE WHAT IT IS.

If you think an all-power, all-knowing God cannot do this very simple and easy thing, I have to question your FAITH?

Why is it do you think that Jesus Christ is not the one that willed the Bible to be as it is now?

Why do you think it is a work of Man?

Where have YOU placed your FAITH?
SoldierofYah (OP)

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02/25/2010 02:07 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Of course there was. Paul was a Benjamite, and the rest of them were Jews.
 Quoting: ZTE


Neither Yahshua/"Jesus" nor the genuine apostles were so-called "jews".

They were ISRAELITES.

The term "jew" is NOT synonymous with "Israelite" or "Judahite"

The so-called "jews" are NOT Israelites. They are descendanst of the Khazars and Edomites.


"I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judahites, and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan."—Revelation 2:9
ZTE

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02/25/2010 02:08 PM

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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Of course there was. Paul was a Benjamite, and the rest of them were Jews.

Neither Yahshua/"Jesus" nor the genuine apostles were so-called "jews".

They were ISRAELITES.

The term "jew" is NOT synonymous with "Israelite" or "Judahite"

The so-called "jews" are NOT Israelites. They are descendanst of the Khazars and Edomites.


"I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Judahites, and are not, but are the Synagogue of Satan."—Revelation 2:9
 Quoting: SoldierofYah


Maybe so, but the tribe of Judah did exist at the time, and thus I use the word Jew as the adjective of the tribe of Judah.
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:09 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
paul taught was given great grace to preach liberty and some were taking advantage their total freedom from the law as some jews were still adhering to their feasts etc mainly still somewhat following law to keep from being thrown out of the synagogues, that is why there were home churches, these were for the ones who stepped out of the law totally into the freedom that paul taught.
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
A Jewish friend of mine states that Paul purposely set the Sunday date to worship to mislead goy from worshipping G-d in full,
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 123922

sure God really gets annoyed when you get the day wrong lol
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:11 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Paul was called by Jesus Christ as his testimoy specifically says so and it is included in the Word of God, The Bible.

Even the original Apostles acknowledged and accepted Paul.

I'd rather believe the original apostles than any of YOU people who were the authority, set up by Jesus Christ, for the Church.

Who exactly are YOU people to question this? To question the authority set up by Jesus Christ, God and Creator?
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:11 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
No.


How could he even be an "apostle" when he was not one of the original 12, or the replacement for Judas?


He did not replace Judas. Matthias did.

Was Paul a false apostle. Evidently Christ didn't think so.
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 890566

Paul was pressed to be separated from the others because they just didn't get it!!! The pull of the bonds serving religion were too hard for them to break away totally!
ZTE

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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Paul was called by Jesus Christ as his testimoy specifically says so and it is included in the Word of God, The Bible.

Even the original Apostles acknowledged and accepted Paul.

I'd rather believe the original apostles than any of YOU people who were the authority, set up by Jesus Christ, for the Church.

Who exactly are YOU people to question this? To question the authority set up by Jesus Christ, God and Creator?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882450



There's nothing wrong with questioning doctrine. Because if I can't defend what I believe, then why should I believe it?
If you can justify killing one man, you can justify killing every man.

The Greatest Lie is the one never told, but assumed.

History isn't a measure of our successes, but the compilation of our mistakes.
Anonymous Coward
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02/25/2010 02:14 PM
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Paul was called by Jesus Christ as his testimoy specifically says so and it is included in the Word of God, The Bible.

Even the original Apostles acknowledged and accepted Paul.

I'd rather believe the original apostles than any of YOU people who were the authority, set up by Jesus Christ, for the Church.

Who exactly are YOU people to question this? To question the authority set up by Jesus Christ, God and Creator?



There's nothing wrong with questioning doctrine. Because if I can't defend what I believe, then why should I believe it?
 Quoting: ZTE



what a stupid and laughable statement.

Yeah there is nothing wrong with questioning doctrine if you believe its "doctrine" and NOT the Word of God as a true believer believes.

How can you question the fact that 1 + 1 = 2?

How stupidly futile is that?

That is the same futility in questioning the Word of God, The Bible.
Anonymous Coward
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Maybe so, but the tribe of Judah did exist at the time, and thus I use the word Jew as the adjective of the tribe of Judah.
 Quoting: ZTE


Not really accurate though. The word Jew is a corrupted word. The Greek word it is translated from, Ioudaios, means Judean. Paul was a Judean, the twelve apostles were all (except for Judas) from Galilee. The twelve apostles (except for Judas) were also from the tribe of Benjamin.
SoldierofYah (OP)

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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Maybe so, but the tribe of Judah did exist at the time, and thus I use the word Jew as the adjective of the tribe of Judah.
 Quoting: ZTE


Yes, a remnant of the tribes of Benjamin and Judah were in Palestine/Judea at the time of Yahshua/"Jesus".

But there were also many NON-Israelites living among the Israelites in Judea at that time -- including the descendants of Esau (called Edomites), who had mixed with Canaanites and some Israelites.

The modern-day "jews" are descended from these Edomites.

And Saul/Paul was one of these Edomites. He may have had some Benjamite blood, but he was mongrelized and not a pure-blooded Israelite. Therefore, as a bastard/mongrel, he is not a true Israelite.

Do you recall how strongly Yahshua/"Jesus" condemned the Jewish Pharisees?

Yahshua speaking to the Jewish Pharisees:

"Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do." (John 8:44)

"Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell?" (Matthew 23:33)
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Re: Was Paul - aka Saul of Tarsus - a False Apostle?
Paul was called by Jesus Christ as his testimoy specifically says so and it is included in the Word of God, The Bible.

Even the original Apostles acknowledged and accepted Paul.

I'd rather believe the original apostles than any of YOU people who were the authority, set up by Jesus Christ, for the Church.

Who exactly are YOU people to question this? To question the authority set up by Jesus Christ, God and Creator?
 Quoting: Anonymous Coward 882450

lol, you are funny, how do you think people come to belief? by questioning God and Jesus Christ you come to the knowledge of him and God wants you to know his Son! period!

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