Free Will is a Delusion

Doesn't 'greed' assume free will? I can't quite get by brain to believe that you could have one without the other.


Greed, like any attitude, is caused primarily by childhood upbringing and environmental influences in adult life.

The corporate media is a big factor in promoting greed.



But then, I have a choice to watch it or not.


Hehe... nah, you are caused to watch it or not. If you have been convinced that it is crap, you will not watch it. If you think that you might gain something by watching it, you will. It's just that simple, no?

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.

So how does these types of events reconcile with your theories???? I am very curious........

Guys I am having some serious trouble here. Despite all these nice *theories* and deep discussions, I can advise you I have temporarily *overcome* the laws of physics in life threatening situations, and exploring the world in general.

First let me predicate this by stating I am a large part Cherokee Indian. I know. Big deal.


An example. I ride motorcycles. One time I got into big trouble, not through fault of mine, long story, but sure as shit I was fixin' to get killed. I WILLED when the event was going down NOW is NOT the time for me to die. No God, nothing. However I got outta this deal without a scratch, and yes, I DID overcome the laws of physics as we understand it. I willed it. People pulled over and freaked. Just one example. I DO NOT claim to have any special powers, LOL.. I just willed it.

So how does these types of events reconcile with your theories???? I am very curious........

Guys I am having some serious trouble here. Despite all these nice *theories* and deep discussions, I can advise you I have temporarily *overcome* the laws of physics in life threatening situations, and exploring the world in general.

First let me predicate this by stating I am a large part Cherokee Indian. I know. Big deal.


An example. I ride motorcycles. One time I got into big trouble, not through fault of mine, long story, but sure as shit I was fixin' to get killed. I WILLED when the event was going down NOW is NOT the time for me to die. No God, nothing. However I got outta this deal without a scratch, and yes, I DID overcome the laws of physics as we understand it. I willed it. People pulled over and freaked. Just one example. I DO NOT claim to have any special powers, LOL.. I just willed it.

So how does these types of events reconcile with your theories???? I am very curious........


Coincidence coupled with selective interpretation. in other words, you got lucky, and you choose to interpret as something more because that is what you want to believe.

Cool deal on the Cherokke thing. I'm 1/8.

But it is still my choice, isn't it?

The key word is "perhaps" as in how many are fortunate enough to have achieved what he was talking about.

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.


That doesn't explain why you choose doritos.

And please, don't try to say that "I was urged to eat doritos because I wanted to eat them". What if I wanted to eat shit, and yurned for it, and still ate doritos, then your logic is invalid.

Such logic is invalid, which is why you avoid my most of my arguments. You always resort to your already refuted arguments. Sad materialist.

None of you people believe in the Law of Attraction?

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.

Guys I am having some serious trouble here. Despite all these nice *theories* and deep discussions, I can advise you I have temporarily *overcome* the laws of physics in life threatening situations, and exploring the world in general.

First let me predicate this by stating I am a large part Cherokee Indian. I know. Big deal.


An example. I ride motorcycles. One time I got into big trouble, not through fault of mine, long story, but sure as shit I was fixin' to get killed. I WILLED when the event was going down NOW is NOT the time for me to die. No God, nothing. However I got outta this deal without a scratch, and yes, I DID overcome the laws of physics as we understand it. I willed it. People pulled over and freaked. Just one example. I DO NOT claim to have any special powers, LOL.. I just willed it.

So how does these types of events reconcile with your theories???? I am very curious........


Coincidence coupled with selective interpretation. in other words, you got lucky, and you choose to interpret as something more because that is what you want to believe.

Cool deal on the Cherokke thing. I'm 1/8.


Alright, this guy is full of shit.

His idiotic logic, coupled with ignoring my valid refutations makes this guy a disinformationist.

Alright, this guy is full of shit.

His idiotic logic, coupled with ignoring my valid refutations makes this guy a disinformationist.

Alright, this guy is full of shit.

His idiotic logic, coupled with ignoring my valid refutations makes this guy a disinformationist.

The key word is "perhaps" as in how many are fortunate enough to have achieved what he was talking about.



Serious question: How many do you really think had the experience of complete self-realization after being in his presence. I am willing to bet very few.

I'm still not fully convinced of all the westerners who were instantly enlightened after hanging out with Sri Nisargadatta Maharaj and Poonja. Although these two Indian students of Maharshi certainly are convincing.

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.


That doesn't explain why you choose doritos.

And please, don't try to say that "I was urged to eat doritos because I wanted to eat them". What if I wanted to eat shit, and yurned for it, and still ate doritos, then your logic is invalid.

Such logic is invalid, which is why you avoid my most of my arguments. You always resort to your already refuted arguments. Sad materialist.


I choose Doritos because a thousand different factors cause me to choose them. There are always many different factors involved in any event. The fact that it is difficult to know exactly what those factors are does not mean that they do not exist.

You have refuted nothing, and the fact that you think you have is pretty funny. :)

But it is still my choice, isn't it?


Sure, if you want to call something that you have no choice about a "choice." :)

Thank you all for the input. I'll go with what I know.....

Thanks Trinity.

I WILL add when I do not maintain awareness in this regard I revert back to the norm....which means shit happens....without all the long winded discussions on this thread.

Even though OP's and Sol's input is to be applauded.....

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.



Naturyl I could not have described free will any better. I completely disagree with your assesment. The hunger is merely a catalyst. There is no "force" that made you eat doritos nor is there any force that made me choose to eat them now as opposed to 30 seconds from now or wether I even ate doritos or anything at all.

When you push a box it can not "choose" wether or not it will move. You apply enough force and it will move in the direction of the applied force. Not so with human thought. All be it, it may be greatly influenced by outside persuasion, none the less there is nothing that "forces" a thought.

I could go outside and pick up a rock or do an infinite number of other things that have no reason or influence other than I can if I want to. That is called free will.

Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will.

But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that.



Naturyl I could not have described free will any better. I completely disagree with your assesment. The hunger is merely a catalyst. There is no "force" that made you eat doritos nor is there any force that made me choose to eat them now as opposed to 30 seconds from now or wether I even ate doritos or anything at all.

When you push a box it can not "choose" wether or not it will move. You apply enough force and it will move in the direction of the applied force. Not so with human thought. All be it, it may be greatly influenced by outside persuasion, none the less there is nothing that "forces" a thought.

I could go outside and pick up a rock or do an infinite number of other things that have no reason or influence other than I can if I want to. That is called free will.

But it is still my choice, isn't it?


Sure, if you want to call something that you have no choice about a "choice." :)


Funny, it seems to me that I make choices all day long.

Sometimes, I hunger and want to eat and say 'no' to myself because I want to be slim. I prefer to stir my husband.

Sometimes, I walk away from the computer because I must perform my duties.

Sometimes, I keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start an argument with my daughter.

Sometimes, I force myself to get out of bed instead of sleep, not to do unto others as they would have me do unto them, but because I want to honor God and go to church.

And for some reason, these are all things I do for DUTY, not because of the golden rule.

But because I choose to be a better human being today than I was yesterday.

But it is still my choice, isn't it?


Sure, if you want to call something that you have no choice about a "choice." :)


Funny, it seems to me that I make choices all day long.

Sometimes, I hunger and want to eat and say 'no' to myself because I want to be slim. I prefer to stir my husband.

Sometimes, I walk away from the computer because I must perform my duties.

Sometimes, I keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start an argument with my daughter.

Sometimes, I force myself to get out of bed instead of sleep, not to do unto others as they would have me do unto them, but because I want to honor God and go to church.

And for some reason, these are all things I do for DUTY, not because of the golden rule.

But because I choose to be a better human being today than I was yesterday.

But it is still my choice, isn't it?


Sure, if you want to call something that you have no choice about a "choice." :)


Funny, it seems to me that I make choices all day long.

Sometimes, I hunger and want to eat and say 'no' to myself because I want to be slim. I prefer to stir my husband.

Sometimes, I walk away from the computer because I must perform my duties.

Sometimes, I keep my mouth shut because I don't want to start an argument with my daughter.

Sometimes, I force myself to get out of bed instead of sleep, not to do unto others as they would have me do unto them, but because I want to honor God and go to church.

And for some reason, these are all things I do for DUTY, not because of the golden rule.

But because I choose to be a better human being today than I was yesterday.


Yeah, I agree, it seems like we make choices all the time. It is human nature to imagine that we are calling the shots.

But we don't. It's all dictated by causal factors, or perhaps on extremely rare occassions, randomly generated on the spot. In neither case are we the "doers."

Nature is the only doer. We do not choose, we are chosen through.