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Original Message
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This is based on a teaching from Irvin Baxter at End Time Ministries. see links and vids to follow for more of Irvin Baxter's teachings. all good stuff in my opinion.
Note: This topic is not a salvation issue. The most important thing is to be ready and stay ready. It is not a reason to divide and argue.
When will the Rapture happen?
The Rapture will happen immediately after the great tribulation.
Matthew 24:29
Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
Rev 20:4-6
And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them: and I saw the souls of them that were beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands; and they lived and reigned with Christ a thousand years.
But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.
Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
Now we beseech you, brethren, by the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ, and by our gathering unto him, for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed.
Wheat and Tares
Matthew 13:30
Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn.
Rev 14:14-20
I looked, and there before me was a white cloud, and seated on the cloud was one like a son of manb with a crown of gold on his head and a sharp sickle in his hand. Then another angel came out of the temple and called in a loud voice to him who was sitting on the cloud, “Take your sickle and reap, because the time to reap has come, for the harvest of the earth is ripe.” So he who was seated on the cloud swung his sickle over the earth, and the earth was harvested.
Another angel came out of the temple in heaven, and he too had a sharp sickle. Still another angel, who had charge of the fire, came from the altar and called in a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, “Take your sharp sickle and gather the clusters of grapes from the earth’s vine, because its grapes are ripe.” The angel swung his sickle on the earth, gathered its grapes and threw them into the great winepress of God’s wrath. They were trampled in the winepress outside the city, and blood flowed out of the press, rising as high as the horses’ bridles for a distance of 1,600 stadia.
Rev 19:7-21
And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, “Come, gather together for the great supper of God, so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and the mighty, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, great and small.”
Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to wage war against the rider on the horse and his army. But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. The rest were killed with the sword coming out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh.
Pre-Trib Argument #1:
1 Thessalonians 5:9
For God has not appointed us to wrath...
(For pre-tribbers, this scripture indicates that the church will not experience God's wrath during the tribulation.)
Post-Trib Response:
It's obvious that God is not going to pour out His wrath on His church. God's not going to beat His bride before He marries her. The Great Tribulation is NOT the wrath of God. It is the wrath of Satan. The wrath of God is poured out right at the end of the Great Tribulation and right at the time of the Battle of Armaggedon.
Rev 12:7
Rev 12:12
Woe to the inhabiters of the earth and of the sea! For the devil is come down upon you, having great wrath, because he knows that he has but a short time.
He will 3.5 yrs left...
So, Satan is comes down, launches the Great Tribulation, and the full brunt of it will come upon the "woman with 12 stars above her head" - Israel and also the disciples of Christ. He will persecute the "woman" for time, times and half a time (the Great Trib is 3.5 yrs in length - not 7).
The Great Tribulation is the wrath of Satan for 3.5 yrs.
The Great Tribulation is NOT the wrath of God.
The wrath of God is described in Revelation chap. 16. These are the vials that will be coming down against the armies that will be coming against Israel at the time of the Battle of Armaggedon.
Remember: The Great Tribulation is Satan making war against the saints.
Pre-Trib Argument #2:
2 Thessalonians 2:7
For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work; only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. And then the lawless one will be revealed, whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming.
Pre-Tribbers think that "he" which restrains is the church and that the restraining influence of the church must be removed at the rapture before the Antichrist can come to power.
Post-Trib Response:
2 Thessalonians 2:1-3
The rapture cannot happen until the falling away comes and Antichrist is revealed. The church is NOT the restrainer.
2 Thessalonians 2:6 explains what the restrainer is.
And now you know what withholdeth that the antichrist might be revealed in his time.
---This is where Irvin and I differ in opinion---
Irvin thinks the "restrainer" is the timeline or God's clock. In other words, the restrainer is God letting time pass until the right moment for these two things to happen; the falling away and the revealing of the antichrist. The antichrist cannot come until it is TIME for him to come.
I thinks the "restrainer" might be the Holy Spirit. Maybe it's both, maybe they are one and the same. I did a thread on this at one time. I will dig it up.
anyway...
The "restrainer" CANNOT be the church. The church is never referred to as a "he". It is always referred to in female gender as "the bride".
Pre-Trib Argument #3:
Rev 4:1
After I looked, and, behold, a door was opened in heaven: and the first voice which I heard was as it were of a trumpet talking with me; which said, Come up hither, and I will show you things which must be hereafter.
Pre-Tribbers believe this is the rapture of the church. They argue that the church is not mentioned again after Rev 4, so this means that the church is already raptured, and raptured before the seals, trumpets and vials occur.
Post Trib Response:
This is wrong.
The book of Revelation is divided into three sections. Past, present and future events.
Rev 1:19
Write the things which thou hast seen, and the things which were, and the things which shall be hereafter;
Three categories: 1 Things thou hast seen, 2 things which are and 3 things which shall be hereafter. Items 1 and 2 are outlined in chaps 1-3. From chap 4 onward, these are the things which shall be hereafter (or future events).
Rev chap 4 and onward represent the prophetic portion of the book, or future prophesied events.
Note:
The first four seals have already been released. According to Irvin, this can be proven, so if this is true, then the pre-trib rapture is simply not possible. I will find data to support this and post it soon.
More to come... continued...
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