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Free Will is a Delusion
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[quote:gooderboy:MV8yNjUxNTdfNDY4MzAzMV9ENTAyOUJDNQ==] [quote:Naturyl] Again, events either have a cause or they do not. If they do not, they cannot be the result of free will, because free will requires that choice be the causal agent. And, of course, the event we call "choice" itself either has a cause or it does not. Here we have a vicious regress which makes the traditional libertarian version of free will essentially meaningless. Then, say, if one were to rob a bank- what caused such an event? His desire for money? Why would one desire money, if he isn't poor? Greed? Why be greedy? Greed stems from the belief that there isn't enough "stuff" to share with everyone. Why do people believe this? Because they believe our resources are limited. Why do they believe our resources are limited? Because they believe the World itself, and all of that within it, is finite. Now, tell me, why would they believe that? Because greedy people hoard of all the "stuff" for themselves. Now why are these people greedy? :clogic: It's a never ending cycle. The only other option is choice. The cause and effect principle does not apply to all things. They do not apply to intangible concepts and thoughts. They do not apply to that which cannot be conceived. You are introducing the circular logic. It is not part of my argument. The chain of causation which influences all non-random events stretches backward in time to the big bang. It does not loop back on itself, it simply proceeds from cause to event in the direction of time's arrow. Each event then becomes a cause which influences future events. Think dominoes. [/quote] ...as I said, lol, no personality... and so yes let's ideed think dominoes. Okay... we now have dominoes.... what???????... is there something other than 'just' dominoes then? or... ...what do dominoes do? oh... and then what supposedly influenced the big bang? Or... do you also just get to pick your own starting point... and you know, like wherever ya may choose for to leap in? How many directions does time have then? or... When is it not 'now'? And how many directions does 'now' expand into? "Each event then becomes a cause which influences future events." ... and just as surely as all energy seeks them paths of least resistance... but why, and oh why... would energy ever do such a thang... can ya just image-(it)-in? (or not) [/quote]
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Watch this:
Premise 1: Physics shows that all events are either caused or random.
Premise 2: All human actions are events.
Conclusion: All human actions are either caused or random.
If human actions are caused, they are not freely chosen. If they are random, they are also not freely chosen.
And we cannot say that human actions are "caused by free choice" to save the concept of free will, for "free choice" itself is either caused or random.
"Free will" is either a misunderstanding of causation or a misunderstanding of randomness. It is not real, and is thus either an illusion or a delusion, depending on your view of how useful the fiction is.
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