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Free Will is a Delusion
Ms Sans Serif
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[quote:Naturyl:MV8yNjUxNTdfNDY4MzgwMF84NzNCQTkyOA==] [quote:AA] Naturyl yes... but if some events are "caused" by human thought, then that being the cause as opposed to the reaction denotes free-will. But human thought is caused. You can decide to eat some Doritos, but that decision is caused by your hunger, which is caused by your need to survive, which is caused by evolution, which is caused by the laws of physics, which are caused by the big bang, which is caused by Nature. It all comes back to that. Naturyl I could not have described free will any better. I completely disagree with your assesment. The hunger is merely a catalyst. There is no "force" that made you eat doritos nor is there any force that made me choose to eat them now as opposed to 30 seconds from now or wether I even ate doritos or anything at all. When you push a box it can not "choose" wether or not it will move. You apply enough force and it will move in the direction of the applied force. Not so with human thought. All be it, it may be greatly influenced by outside persuasion, none the less there is nothing that "forces" a thought. I could go outside and pick up a rock or do an infinite number of other things that have no reason or influence other than I can if I want to. That is called free will. [/quote] You aren't making an argument, you are just asserting what you wish to be true. Thoughts are events, and all events are either caused or random. There is no place for "free will." It is a delusion. Again, thoughts are events. Events either have a cause or they do not. If they do not have a cause, they are not consistent with free will, because free will requires that intentional choice be the cause. And intentional choice, of course, is an event, which must either be random or caused. And so on and so on, all the way back. Free will is what most people want to believe (because they don't realize that determinism is much better), but it's a fiction nonetheless. Wishing doesn't make it so. Want to demonstrate to yourself that determinism is true? Try going 24 hours without saying or thinking the word "because." :) [/quote]
Premise 1: Physics shows that all events are either caused or random.
Premise 2: All human actions are events.
Conclusion: All human actions are either caused or random.
If human actions are caused, they are not freely chosen. If they are random, they are also not freely chosen.
And we cannot say that human actions are "caused by free choice" to save the concept of free will, for "free choice" itself is either caused or random.
"Free will" is either a misunderstanding of causation or a misunderstanding of randomness. It is not real, and is thus either an illusion or a delusion, depending on your view of how useful the fiction is.
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